The Golden Cipher

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# The Golden Cipher

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(@sermo-nihil)
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@herupakraath

Have you looked at how your Trikey applies to CCXX as a whole? What number does it give you and how applicable is this number?

I get 168099 for the English,183 for the non-english, 1151 for the numbers, and 382 for the Cipher

totaling 169795?

is this what you get?

(@threefold31)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

GYLLYS = 143 = 76

The value 76 results from transposing the Hebrew letters in your name into English letters using the Tri-key. The link between the two numbers resonates with the puzzle of verse 76, and links your name to it. The only element missing that shows you are also a prophet named in the puzzle, is to show the city and state of your birth are also represented within it. By spelling Detroit Michigan in Hebrew as DHTROYT MYChYGAN, and converting the letters into English, the value of the letters is 143, showing your name and birthplace are concealed in the numbers of the puzzle, similar to the way mine are concealed in the letters.

Dwtw

That's interesting. Depending on which source you consult, Detroit is 143 square miles in extent. This is surely a coincidence.

Using google translate, the city name looks like this: דטרויט, מישיגן

This has a total of 238 + 413 = 651 = 7 * 93.

You can even get a novelty t-shirt from U-M that spells the state that way:

Using the 'translation' method on the google transliteration, via the TQ gematria:

Dalet = Venus = K = 17

Tet = Leo = F = 12

Resh = Sun = E = 13

Vav = Taurus = S = 15

Yod = Virgo = A = 5

Tet = Leo = F = 12

Mem = Water = X = 6

Yod = Virgo = A = 5

Shin = Fire = H = 3

Yod = Virgo = A = 5

Gimel = Moon = * = 26

Nun = Scorpio = N = 24

sum of 17 + 12 + 13 + 15 + 5 + 12 + 6 + 5 + 3 + 5 + 26 + 24 = 143

Litllwtw

O.L.

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This is sort of mind boggling to think of this interesting revelation and not just because you have indicated that you are from Detroit, but because I had been listening a bit interviews between two Detroit area Anthroposophists waxing upon Detroit being a spiritual center, and of America.

(@threefold31)
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Dwtw

Interesting. It was the birthplace of the OTO in the USA, and both AC and Fr. Achad hung out in my neighborhood back in the day. Achad even lived on the same street as me (as did Ryerson, who published the Blue Equinox), and AC stayed at a rooming house 1 block over.

Litllwtw

O.L.

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Small neighborhood...How did you find out where Achad lived and AC stayed?

Regarding Detroit, here are two Anthroposophist talking about Detroit....recollecting.., Douglas Gabrial is not a fan of Crowley from what I have come acorss. He has claimed that he had an important role in the original Star Wars movie...and in Waldorf Education among other things...

(@threefold31)
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Dwtw

I found the Fr. Achad reference in one of his old letters a long time ago. He lived on Vinewood St., but also on the east side, (I think on Chene St.?) - I went inside the house once many years ago and it was in ruins, like most of the neighborhood.

The Ryerson/Crowley stuff was written up by RK in his book "Panic in Detroit' about the goings-on and, (of course), scandals of the Blue Equinox period. Ryerson's place is still standing, I used to walk by it all the time, my GF lived across the street from it. The boarding house where AC stayed is now an apartment bldg. on W. Grand Blvd, parallel to Ryerson's but one block east, (directly behind my GF's house). Did people have fenced yards back then? Who knows, maybe Crowley took a shortcut through her backyard. But if they ever took a walk down to the river, or caught a trolley to downtown, they would have strolled in front of where I lived, a block further south.

Litllwtw

O.L.

(@herupakraath)
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Posted by: @sermo-nihil

Have you looked at how your Trikey applies to CCXX as a whole? What number does it give you and how applicable is this number?

One of my criticisms of the TEQ global sum are the lengths required to get there, beginning with having to multiply the sum of the puzzle numbers, times the count of its numbers, times the gematria value of its letters, and then having to add almost every number in the book to its gematria total in order to match the value produced with the puzzle. For me that is the hard way to get somewhere, raising the question of why the number is not represented in the puzzle in a simpler fashion. Of course, that was Leo's ordeal, and to his credit he squeaked out a result that works; ironically, without his efforts, I would have never found the following:

ABK = 3 letters.
a = 1 letter: the only lowercase letter in the puzzle.
LGMOR = 5 uppercase letters.
aLGMOR = 6 letters.
YX = 2 letters in the printed versions of the text.
RPSTOVAL = 8 letters.

ABK aLGMOR YX = 3, 6, 2, with 362 consisting of the total value of the puzzle: 219 + 143 = 362.

a = 1
aLGMOR = 6
RPSTOVAL = 8
ABK = 3
YX = 2
LGMOR = 5

The number represented is 168325, the English gematria value of the entire text of the Book of the Law when calculated with the Tri-key. No other gematria system that uses the values 1-26 can equal the value 168325, the Tri-key is the only one. All of the letter groups in the puzzle are used to express the total, and the purpose of the sole lowercase letter in the puzzle is also evidenced.

(@sermo-nihil)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

Not almost, that's every number.

Its a pretty easy solution - the numbers of the Riddle = 143 & the letters = 208, then this multiplied by 9 gives use the Global Sum, and this Global Sum represents the entirety of CCXX.

Posted by: @herupakraath

168325

I am not sure how you derive this number. Just the pure English, with no additions .. numbers, foreign elements, verse numbers, etc ... is 168099, and the value you give is 226 more than this.

Could you explain this?

(@herupakraath)
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Posted by: @sermo-nihil

Not almost, that's every number.

Not the sheet numbers, nor the numbers or text that serve as grid coordinates for III:47.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

I am not sure how you derive this number. Just the pure English, with no additions .. numbers, foreign elements, verse numbers, etc ... is 168099, and the value you give is 226 more than this.

Could you explain this?

Your calculation is wrong. What value do you get for TEG? It should be 257998, which brings it to 267696 when 9698 is added to the value.

(@sermo-nihil)
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@herupakraath

Posted by: @herupakraath

168325

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

The number represented is 168325, the English gematria value of the entire text of the Book of the Law when calculated with the Tri-key.

Can you explain further which edition of the book of the law you are using. Not the manuscript, right? While the frequency of each letter may not change, things like the total sum of all words of course would vary from edition to edition, or in some editions at least. Or, if you use the mansucript, what about the later pencilled notes, the verses from AC to be added later, the additions in another hand, the crossed out passages? Thank you.

(@ignant666)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

Possible pot-kettle issues here?

(@shiva)
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

While the frequency of each letter may not change, things like the total sum of all words of course would vary from edition to edition, or in some editions at least.

The frequency of any letter often depends on the part of the world one was raised in, and trained to speak. I am a firm believer (a form of true believing) in the semi-proven theory that says the power of any letter lies in its pronunciation, out-loud, with intent. Speaking came before reading and scribbling. The first act of (most) any of us was a scream.

Oral transmissions are of "higher quality" than written transmissions, and symbolic written transmissions are where the puzzles, ciphers, and hallucinations dwell.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

YX = 2 letters in the printed versions of the text.

Am I correct in assuming that you therefore are using a printed version of text? Or are you pointing this out for another reason, like 2 letters ONLY in the printed version?

Then:

Posted by: @herupakraath

ABK = 3 letters.
a = 1 letter: the only lowercase letter in the puzzle.
LGMOR = 5 uppercase letters.
aLGMOR = 6 letters.
YX = 2 letters in the printed versions of the text.
RPSTOVAL = 8 letters.

Also I would say - and especially in the way you ordered the "groups" (meaning this totally arbitrary order: a, aLGMOR, RPSTOVAL, ABK, YX, LGMOR) you can arrive at nearly every number you like or really a lot of numbers.

1 = a = the only lowercase, also X and Y from the manuscript.

2 = XY only in printed versions

3 = ABK

4 = OVAL, the only real word in the riddle (iirc you used this once) or the combined letters starting each row ABKX

5 = aLGMOR without the lowercase

6 = aLGMOR with the lowercase

7 is hard but I am sure someone will have an idea, like the letters in the right half of the upper row of the manuscript or BKaLGMO, all the letters that are directly above other letters in the manuscript.

8 = RPSTOVAL

9 = X RPSTOVAL all the letters in lower row of the manuscript.

0 = there is no fricking B! or 10 = the number of letters in the upper row of the mansucript.

Now just put them in any order you seek for.

It proves everything and nothing.

Hope you find the time to answer my question about which exact edition you use. Thanks in advance

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Posted by: @shiva

The frequency of any letter often depends on the part of the world one was raised in, and trained to speak. I am a firm believer (a form of true believing) in the semi-proven theory that says the power of any letter lies in its pronunciation, out-loud, with intent. Speaking came before reading and scribbling. The first act of (most) any of us was a scream.

Oral transmissions are of "higher quality" than written transmissions, and symbolic written transmissions are where the puzzles, ciphers, and hallucinations dwell.

Aye, Listen to the numbers and words!

(@herupakraath)
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Posted by: @sermo-nihil

I realize that, and was suggesting you add the value of the text using TEG system to see what result you get: it's probably incorrect as well, which will show the software you are using is flawed, or the text file has errors in it.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

I realize that, and was suggesting you add the value of the text using TEG system to see what result you get: it's probably incorrect as well, which will show the software you are using is flawed, or the text file has errors in it.

Duly noted.

Noted what? you may ask (probably not).

Well, that you find the time to write three lines being condescending, but not the time to write the 3 or 4 words about what Liber AL edition (or text file) you use.

(@herupakraath)
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Am I correct in assuming that you therefore are using a printed version of text?

Yes, in modeling the global sum produced with the TEG system.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Also I would say - and especially in the way you ordered the "groups" (meaning this totally arbitrary order: a, aLGMOR, RPSTOVAL, ABK, YX, LGMOR)

The ordering of the groups serves a purpose, where as an arbitrary ordering would not. What you are apparently criticizing is the order of the groups not matching their order in the puzzle, while choosing to ignore that the first three groups express the value 362 in exact order, making it impossible to express 168325 the same way.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

my question about which exact edition you use

I can think of seven different printed versions of Liber Legis that I own, and to my knowledge the text is the same in all of them, making it impossible to choose one over another.

(@ignant666)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

The ordering of the groups serves a purpose

Hilarious that you just admit this, right out in the open. Even funnier that you imagine that saying this is some sort of defense to @the_real_simon_iff 's criticism, rather than you proving his point.

I presume this is because you do not understand that admitting this is fatal to your credibility.

If your methods "serve a purpose", you are admitting that your work is result-driven, and thus is meaningless self-delusion.

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(@sermo-nihil)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

it's probably incorrect as well,

You can be assured that I am not using a flawed app to do gematria calculations.. I have 3 different ways to check the data.

The first is an old school app called Enumerator. Then I use an Excel spreadsheet function, and lastly, a Word macro. All of which I use for different applications.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

what Liber AL edition (or text file) you use.

I am using the 1909 typescript edition which appears in the "Holy Books of Thelema", copyright 2015. Its a little blue book, which I think is pretty standard edition before the whole Kill/Fill fiasco. I am not familiar with the differences of editions; they way I figure it, the practice is more important.

Posted by: @herupakraath

text file has errors in it.

I did indeed go back and check my text file, and discovered that I was using one that did not contain the riddle in it. So in correcting myself and recalculating you sum using Trikey (and using just English letters), I get 168318, which is 7 shy of your total.

This total still does not contain the numbers used in the text (including those in the riddle), nor 93 for Thelema or 90 for the letter Tzaddi.

And since we are "borging" this out, could you include chapter totals in your next post so that I can determine where I may have went wrong (or visa versa). 7 in Trikey is the vowel I, of which I count 1419 of them.

Perhaps you could post a chapter by chapter sum, so we can then compare and figure out the discrepancy.

Your value of 168325 is 25 × 6733 .. what do you do with that? I even ran 6733, and it does nothing. But maybe that's the point. It is not self referent to the text. It does nothing to explain the riddle.

I did find something interesting, which I will share. 362 equals the letters of the Riddle, plus the question which follows "What meaneth this, o prophet", making this phrase equivalent to the numbers.

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Posted by: @sermo-nihil

I did find something interesting, which I will share. 362 equals the letters of the Riddle, plus the question which follows "What meaneth this, o prophet", making this phrase equivalent to the numbers.

I am puzzled, I thought that there were but 19 letters in the II. 76 riddle?

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

the first three groups express the value 362 in exact order, making it impossible to express 168325 the same way.

Yes, of course I am talking about 168325. And, as said, you thereby can arrive at many desired totals if you change the order and use some groups more than once. This of course is then possible with all other keys.

Posted by: @herupakraath

I can think of seven different printed versions of Liber Legis that I own, and to my knowledge the text is the same in all of them, making it impossible to choose one over another.

Well, I do not know which editions you use, but there are indeed changes made between editions (like dropping H at the end of Egyptian words, losing a "to" somwewhere, lots of punctuation changes - though that won't affect the letter count). You have the chance to be as open-source as possible by just providing the text file you use, so people who try to follow and check your findings have all the same source. This would indeed be very nice.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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@herupakraath And by the way, and quite importantly: in every edition I own, there are no groups in the riddle. Every letter and number is seperated by a space.

(@shiva)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

the software

And now the end of the argument, the age, and the world has arrived.

Hod, a mental repository has been invaded by Artificial Intelligence. Well, it's artificial, but it is still getting caught making errors ... so who would use it ?

The machinations of The Black Lodge, in our present-today-era, may be summed up in only One word ... digital - this does not refer to fingers or toes.

Posted by: @herupakraath

... impossible to choose one over another.

I would pick the One with the biggest type size as it would be easiest to read, with or without vision enhancers. If one or more versions have the same size type, then the most visually-appealing (in the text, not the cover, which may be a blind).

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

The first is an old school app called Enumerator. Then I use an Excel spreadsheet function, and lastly, a Word macro. All of which I use for different applications.

Oh, whew and phew Your basic levels of digital usage and interface fall fart short of the AI invasion that I envisioned. Anybody is safe with Excel and Word on an isolated non-borGized unit. Connection to the internet is forbidden to thee, O man or woman. Of course, the word of sin is "forbidden," so go ahead at your own risk.

I am still sinning by being plugged in to talk (write) to you, et al. It also helps in paying the bills. A necessary evil, said somebody. I am currently working on taking out a few more tendrils.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @shiva

Your basic levels of digital usage and interface fall fart short of the AI invasion that I envisioned. Anybody is safe with Excel and Word on an isolated non-borGized unit. Connection to the internet is forbidden to thee, O man or woman. Of course, the word of sin is "forbidden," so go ahead at your own risk.

This is what happens when you ask ChatGPT to count the letters.

Of course this only happens with chapter 3.

P.S. Let me add that it counts totally wrong.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Sorry for the multiple posting.

@herupakraath

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

You have the chance to be as open-source as possible by just providing the text file you use, so people who try to follow and check your findings have all the same source. This would indeed be very nice.

The reason for this is that I get slightly different results with online letter freqeuncy counters (I am - thank goddess - not a coder). This does not necessarily change your Key, but it of course changes stuff like the overall sum of all letters.

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Should not the manuscript of Liber L itself be the source for one's calculations?!

But then of course the manuscript is in script such that the letters are locked together into one in each word...

(@jamiejbarter)
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Posted by: @shiva

Oral transmissions are of "higher quality" than written transmissions,

But this wouldn't apply in the case of 'chinese whispers'.

Posted by: @shiva

The first act of (most) any of us was a scream.

That would certainly apply if you were dropped as a newborn baby!  Except no transmission of actual language is involved; the scream as it comes out of the mouth would be more like a sub-set of breathing.

We seem to be more or less stuck with digital lifestyles at the moment and become second class citizens when (if) they are renounced.

Just saying - probably not on-topic.

(So shun me!)

Norma N Joy Conquest

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Should not the manuscript of Liber L itself be the source for one's calculations?!

I would think so. But this brings many problems:

The Stele paraphrasing isn't in there

There are many many words overwritten

There are additions in another hand

There are quite a few striked out sentences (and - if this was a dictation - their corrections do not sound like anything anyone could get wrong in dictation and then corrects)

Some characters aren't really that clear

etc.

I for one would welcome such a solution, changing not the style of a letter, looking into their spatial relations, guessing about the pencil and other-hand additions, this would be a great adventure.

(@herupakraath)
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Posted by: @sermo-nihil

Perhaps you could post a chapter by chapter sum, so we can then compare and figure out the discrepancy.

I: 54074
II: 55286
III: 58965

More than likely, the word "I" is missing, having a value of 7.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

Your value of 168325 is 25 × 6733 .. what do you do with that? I even ran 6733, and it does nothing. But maybe that's the point. It is not self referent to the text. It does nothing to explain the riddle.

The gematria sums I produce have enough meaning that breaking them down into smaller numbers through division is not necessary, and not a method I subscribe to. I can see how a valid gematria sum might be encrypted into the puzzle, but to think that number can be divided or otherwise modified, and relative, meaningful results produced, relies on a paradigm that simply cannot be explained.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

I did find something interesting, which I will share. 362 equals the letters of the Riddle, plus the question which follows "What meaneth this, o prophet", making this phrase equivalent to the numbers.

I have pointed out that What meaneth this o prophet? = 143 numerous times in the past, while adding the verse number to the numbers in the puzzle equals 219, the gematria value of the puzzle letters: ABKALGMORYXRPSTOVAL = 219.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Dear @herupakraath Have you decided yet to give out your source text file or not? I still have slightly different sum results though I have painstakingly compared my text file to the printed editions, have deleted the non-english words, have counted again again. As I have said before, I really love the approach with the letter frequency, so this is quite frustrating. I would really like to see where you are coming from.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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@herupakraath

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Dear @herupakraathblah blah blah

Let's get serious and forget about that "Dear herupakraath" thing: Will you give us your source text file or not? Easy question. Yes or no. You check in every day to lecture someone, so please answer. Don't be the clown you appear to be. So just answer, yes or no.

(@shiva)
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Yes or no.

This is pure yin-yang. Nany people are not ready for such a confrontation. It is called "bringing someone into a point."

"Never bring someone into a point," Fr.'. Mont used to say.  (they explode)

Below the Abysss (the land of y-y), there are 51 shades of gray, which means fiddling, concealing, adding, multiplying, etc, lying, trying to tell the truth, use of AI (11), claim-jumping, jump-claiming, confessing, breaking-down in public, psychotic episodes ... I''ll not continue - you (anyone) may insert the rest of the siddhis, until the list totals 51.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

So just answer, yes or no.

I see. You have chosen to force the point. I have done this only a few times. Right now, I have no memories of anyone achieving instant enlightenment, like in the Zen stories, but who cares ?  We don't do these things by thinking about it.

Personally, I will answer Yes - I will name or surrender, in copy or foto format, any source document, stele, instrument, or book of my authorship or other authors  upon demand. My books are limited to one free chapter from any one book, with multiple book choices open to the number of the queen of infinite space. I cite my position as an example of what you are looking for, not as a report on my magnanimous virtues.

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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Have you decided yet to give out your source text file or not?

I got my values to match his, as I find this to be a topic of interest also. The version is the 1909 type-script edition.

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Posted by: @sermo-nihil

I got my values to match his, as I find this to be a topic of interest also. The version is the 1909 type-script edition.

Are you sure? The 1909 Thelema edition is known to fave multiple errors in it.

Here are a few:

1-16: "and she is a moon" instead of "and she a moon"

1-21: "They are upon the earth" instead of "They are as upon the earth"

1-36: "in one letter changes his book" instead of "in one letter change this book"

2-39: "Tahuti and the children of the prophet" instead of "Tahuti and the child of the prophet"

There are many many more in the 1909 Thelema edition as well as in the unpublished Collected Works edition (they are quite identical, though not completely, and both are significantly different from later editions).

I cannot imagine how your values match his with stuff like this in it. However, I think that your edition simply isn't what it purports to be. Maybe you could be so nice to come forward with a pic from the title page or copyright page or whatever, I am also not really aware of a "typescript" edition from 1909. Of course the easiest thing would be if @herupakraath would simply share his text file, so everyone is working with same edition.

P.S. @sermo-nihil I just saw that you gave this info earlier in this thread, I didn't remember. So it is certainly NOT the 1909 edition.

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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

So it is certainly NOT the 1909 edition.

Well, this is an example of making an assumption. The only copy of Liber Legis I own is from a little blue book entitled Thelema from Conjoined Creation, copyright 2015, which I thought was a facsimile of the 1909 edition of the same name, just in one volume instead of three.

This made me think of which edition of Liber Legis have I been using after all. So I did some digging into my notes, and it is a copy/paste of Liber Legis from the Book of Mutations by @threefold31. His copy of CCXX in his book is identical to the copy found in this book.

It is this 'version' of Liber Legis that exactly matches the figures given by Moss above.

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@sermo-nihil Thanks for that. This is indeed the best matching text file I have encountered so far. I only find 2 differences to the Tri-Key count: 1398 occurrences of "N" instead of 1399, and 38 of "J" instead of 37. At least in the case of "J" it should be relatively easy to find the source, a missing "N" is another thing.

I already found the extra "J". It's the short @threefold31 uses for "Tzaddi". Now to find the missing "N" will be a lot harder.

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Thanks for the list of errors in the 1909 Thelema edition

Yes it would be nice if files were shared such that people who are interested could all be on the same page!

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@hadgigegenraum There are a lot more, as I said. Anyway, if you can find it, try to get a hold on the wonderful book "Liber AL - an examination" by Marlene Cornelius and none other than @threefold31. It's all in there.

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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

I already found the extra "J". It's the short @threefold31 uses for "Tzaddi". Now to find the missing "N" will be a lot harder.

@the_real_simon_iff

Perhaps using a spelling checker could help. I could also post my "raw" text file in the file section, if that would help.

The thing that is lacking from @herupakraath totals that he gives above are the numbers that are included in the text (4,11,418, 718 and 143 for the Riddle numbers), and the gematria of the Greek Thelema, 93, and Tzaddi as 90.

Including these totals gives us 169802, not a very exciting number. 2*59*1439. Yet according to him, divisors don't matter for some reason.

I am not sure why he did not include these values, as they are part of the text.

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Thanks for the book recommendation!...Liber AL - an examination" by Marlene Cornelius

That one has intrigued me for awhile, so it is nice to hear that is a "wonderful" book!

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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That one has intrigued me for awhile, so it is nice to hear that is a "wonderful" book!

Wonderful as in super interesting. IF you are interested in tiny details that distinguish the different Liber AL editions that came out in AC's lifetime. With obvious knowledge of the actual manuscript (the different coloured pens are mentioned f.ex.) and painfully assessing stuff like é or è and so on.

Sermo Nihil reacted
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

I: 54074
II: 55286
III: 58965

Since I now have the text file that according to @sermo-nihil brings him the same results as you, I present my results:

I: 54064

II: 55278

III: 58965

Obviously in II there is the missing - either missing or you have one too many - N (value 8), but what about chapter I? Any idea? It could be a missing - or again, you have one too many - L (value 10) or a short word summing up to 10. What do you think? By the way, I counted chapter I numerous times, this was a discrepancy I found also with other text files before I used the one from The Book of Mutations. The counting is not a problem at all, but to check the text file for missing or wrong characters isn't so easy. Maybe @threefold31 has a clue? Since the missing N is the only discrepancy the software found, I wonder where the difference between 54064 and 54074 comes from. This doesn't affect your key of course, but the total sum would 168307 instead of 168325, which of course would affect your super important total sum.

(@sermo-nihil)
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@the_real_simon_iff

This is the text file I am using, which exactly matches his calculations, and is a copy/paste, as I mentioned above.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @sermo-nihil

-- attachment is not available --

This is the text file I am using, which exactly matches his calculations, and is a copy/paste, as I mentioned above.

Thank you very much. The missing L in chapter 1 has cleared. Now looking for the still happening mssing N in chapter 2.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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@sermo-nihil Okay, I found it! It's a missing N in II:76 "o chose one" instead of "o chosen one". Now that is clearly a typo, no problem. Now that I found it, I of course see it in the PDF also. But of course it tells me that your text file is NOT a copy/paste from The Book of Mutations. Whatever this means. It could mean there was an update to the PDF that I have missed. Anyway, the file you shared is now officially compatible with Mr. Moss' file. So do not worry any longer about sharing it, Tim, it is done, no thanks.

(@threefold31)
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Posts: 668

Dwtw

Here are the files of the text of Liber CCXX, and a count of the words and letters.

This is the text that has been used for over 25 years in all TEG calculations.

The letters for Thelema and tzaddi employ an asterisk,

to keep it an English-only document for calculation purposes.

NB:

Total Characters in Liber CCXX = 23617 excluding punctuation.

23,617 = 11 * 19 * 113.

11 = number of Arabic numerals in the Cipher

19 = number of Roman letters in the Cipher

113 = sum of the two-digit numbers in the Cipher

*******

There are 5907 'words' in CCXX, plus 220 verse numbers.

Placing a space after every word and verse number totals 6127 spaces plus 23,617 characters.

6127 + 23617 = 29744 = 143 * 208

143 = the sum of the numbers in the Cipher

208 = the sum of the letters in the Cipher by TEG

The Cipher can therefore act as a checksum to insure the integrity of the text.

Litllwtw

O.L.

(@herupakraath)
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Topic starter

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

I got my values to match his, as I find this to be a topic of interest also. The version is the 1909 type-script edition.

The file I use was downloaded from Robin's Mystical Internet in 1998. It had a number of errors that were found while using software to analyze it. After 25 years of rigorous examination, I am certain the text has no errors. The funny thing, is Omega O could have verified that 168325 is correct Tri-key value for the complete text of the book, but apparently he decided to sit this one out.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

The thing that is lacking from (Heru-pa-kraath) totals that he gives above are the numbers that are included in the text (4,11,418, 718 and 143 for the Riddle numbers), and the gematria of the Greek Thelema, 93, and Tzaddi as 90.

Adding the gematria totals produced with an English gematria system of one's own design, to both Greek and Hebrew gematria totals, and adding actual numbers into the mix, was and still is unheard of outside of Omega O's efforts, so it would be accurate not to suggest it serves as a standard or precedent. Some might also consider the TEG effort convoluted and strained compared to the Tri-key effort, which uses nothing but basic gematria to demonstrate a sum hidden in the puzzle that matches the gematria value of the text.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

The file I use was downloaded from Robin's Mystical Internet in 1998.

As I said, this info isn't needed anymore from you. No thanks.

Posted by: @herupakraath

the Tri-key effort, which uses nothing but basic gematria to demonstrate a sum hidden in the puzzle that matches the gematria value of the text.

As I also have said, there is nothing hidden in the sum that matches the total of the text that hasn't been chopped up, used multiple times, been left out and/or re-ordered, a method that isn't "basic gematria" at all (maybe "kindergarten gematria" would be a fitting title) and with which you can produce nearly any desired result. Sometimes I really wish we had a LOL button....

(@sermo-nihil)
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Sometimes I really wish we had a LOL button....

or a "you got to be kidding me, right?" button, or a "bat-shit crazy" button

Posted by: @herupakraath

Some might also consider the TEG effort convoluted and strained compared to the Tri-key effort, which uses nothing but basic gematria to demonstrate a sum hidden in the puzzle that matches the gematria value of the text.

Some would also consider your method convoluted and strained, though other adjectives come to mind. The TQ method is as straight forward as you can get when one deals with such huge numbers. So to spell it out again .. "the book of the Law" (143) * "Hadit, Nuit, Ra-Hoor-Khuit" (208) * 9 is the sum of EVERYTHING in the book, including numbers, and foreign words/letters. And here is the catch ... this sum was derived at by no tweaking whatsoever, none. Not a single tweak. The title of the book multiplied by the 3 gods of each chapter, of that book, and then multiplied by 9.

I can't do that with your number, not even close. I even tried examining your number in terms of base-3, and it just does not reveal anything.

Posted by: @herupakraath

Adding the gematria totals produced with an English gematria system of one's own design, to both Greek and Hebrew gematria totals, and adding actual numbers into the mix, was and still is unheard of outside of Omega O's efforts, so it would be accurate not to suggest it serves as a standard or precedent

Excuse me ... but your data here is completely wrong. He did not "design" the system, as the letter attributions to the Trigrams are Crowley's own attributions. The only thing he did was took Crowley's work a few steps further. He has always given Crowley his due respect when it comes to that. You may not agree with the use of numbers as additive quantities, yet the proof is in the pudding.

And here is the difference ... your work is result driven. You tweak and tweak these arbitrary results to prove what exactly? After all this time, I still don't get what you are trying to prove. And to be blunt and abrasive, no one cares about your name being found in whatever arbitrary results TriKey produces. What should be the focus is how does the frequency of the letters used as a system of English Gematria explain the mysteries found therein, and does this idea also apply to the other Holy Books of Thelema, and help to explain the layers of meaning found in them also.

Leo's work is without the lust of result. At the end of the day, his work on the Riddle proves it to be a checksum.

Posted by: @threefold31

The Cipher can therefore act as a checksum to insure the integrity of the text.

And it does exactly that.

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