The Golden Cipher

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# The Golden Cipher

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(@threefold31)
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Posted by: @herupakraath
The funny thing, is Omega O could have verified that 168325 is correct Tri-key value for the complete text of the book, but apparently he decided to sit this one out.

Dwtw

It is not my job to confirm your gematria total, or answer a question directed to you. I was waiting for you to do that. Also waiting for you to apologize for insulting me and Lutz with this comment:

Posted by: @herupakraath

The only confirmation is the lack of ability on your part and others to perform a simple addition calculation.

when it was you who couldn't count the number of days to April 8 in your head, and trusted a computer to do it for you, then misinterpreted the answer your bot gave you.

Posted by: @herupakraath

Adding the gematria totals produced with an English gematria system of one's own design, to both Greek and Hebrew gematria totals, and adding actual numbers into the mix, was and still is unheard of outside of Omega O's efforts...

Are the numbers in the text or not? How does one interpret "the name of thy house 418" without the number being included? How is one to calculate the gematria of verse 1:39 without including the value of Thelema?

Hmmm... let's see...

"39. The word of the law is Θελημα."

Numerical values: 39 (decimal math) - 156 (TEG) - 44 (serial Greek)

39 * 156 * 44 = 267,696 = the Global Sum of Liber CCXX

Now tell me how convoluted my method is, and how it's 'unheard of' to calculate a text this way, and that because no one else does it, it must be illegitimate. And I'll respond by pointing to the equation above, which speaks for itself.

The Global Sum is encoded in the text in five different places, but let's look at just the cases in the Cipher:

143 * {(ABK * RPSTOVAL) - (ALGMOR * YX)} = 267,696

In this equation there is nothing left out or repeated; no amount of fiddling such as you do with the Tri-Key, rearranging and reusing the number of letters in the groups, and ignoring the numbers altogether.

You also continually misrepresent the TQ analysis of Liber CCXX. It is much simpler than you describe. It is not about the holograph, so the 'grid page' doesn't matter, and neither do the page numbers.

It is a simple fact that by TQ, the entirety of Liber CCXX equals 267,696 = 143 * 208 * 9. This is equal to the numbers of the riddle, times the letters, times 9. The number 9 could be the total of the numbers in the riddle, or the value of the 24th letter, or ignored entirely. It matters little, because 143 * 208 * 9 is NOT 'the solution' to the riddle. It is in resonance with it.

The actual solution has been provided, and it indicates that Aldebaran (not you, or me, or anyone else) is the 'one to follow', i.e., the Follower, that will expound the solution. That solution is a triangle in a circle, both of which are of a specific size. It's as simple as that.

Litllwtw

Omega L. - not Omega O.

(@herupakraath)
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Posted by: @ignant666

Why is it, would you guess, that despite all this "demonstration" of "demonstrably profound" "findings", literally zero persons not named "Timothy D. Moss" are persuaded that you have found the "Key of it all"?

Because most people lack the qualifications or insights necessary to recognize the key, a situation exacerbated by so many faux keys that are treated as the real thing.

Posted by: @ignant666

Also, if science matters, why is the planet Earth not at number 15, being "the [actual] third planet", since Mars is actually the fourth planet from the Sun, and not the third planet from the Sun, as you mistakenly say?

I'm surprised (or maybe not) that you fail to realize the Earth is treated as one of the classical elements, and not a planet. The Earth does not rule any Zodiacal signs, a quality that is required to fit into the planetary scheme used to construct the Tri-key.

Posted by: @ignant666

Hilarious that you just admit this, right out in the open. Even funnier that you imagine that saying this is some sort of defense

I presume this is because you do not understand that admitting this is fatal to your credibility.

Now you know the gematria system of the Tri-key is derived from the letter frequencies in Liber Legis, and accordingly there is no way for me to manipulate the letter values of the system, or the gematria value of the entire text, and you know the letter groups in the II:76 puzzle exist independently of my efforts, so apparently you are complaining that I rearranged the order of the letter groups in order to make their letter counts express the number 168325, thus breaking an imaginary rule of yours. Is that correct?

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

Some would also consider your method convoluted and strained, though other adjectives come to mind.

To produce the TEQ global sum in the puzzle, five steps are required: Calculate the value of the puzzle letters; calculate the values of the numbers in it; count how many numbers are in the puzzle; multiply the value for the numbers times the value for the letters; and then multiply the result by the count of numbers. To extract the global sum from the text of the book also requires five steps, for a total ten steps. To example a global gematria sum with the Tri-key requires two simple steps, and no arcane methodologies: Now I ask you, which is the more convoluted and strained?

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

So to spell it out again .. "the book of the Law" (143) * "Hadit, Nuit, Ra-Hoor-Khuit" (208) * 9 is the sum of EVERYTHING in the book, including numbers, and foreign words/letters. And here is the catch ... this sum was derived at by no tweaking whatsoever, none. Not a single tweak.

To me, the Global Sum concept is a form of sacred landscaping, and while it may look good and create a perceived connection between Trigrammaton and Liber Legis, the concept provides no insight into the mysteries of the text.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

I even tried examining your number in terms of base-3, and it just does not reveal anything.

Now you're comparing two completely different number systems--does it ever end?

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

Excuse me ... but your data here is completely wrong. He did not "design" the system, as the letter attributions to the Trigrams are Crowley's own attributions.

RLG designed the TEQ gematria system by assigning his own values to Crowley's ordering of the letters. You will of course argue the values used are inherent in the tri-grams and that Crowley created them, and in that case you should also assume I am continuing the work of Aiwass since he is the author of Liber Legis, and my alphabet is based upon his work.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

And here is the difference ... your work is result driven. You tweak and tweak these arbitrary results to prove what exactly?

One again I find myself faced with a mischaracterization of the facts. What have I tweaked? Certainly not the gematria system I'm using or any of the spellings the system has been applied to. The criticism about not treating Earth as a planet is specious based on the concept of the classical elements, and the treatment of the Earth in astrology.

There are only two possible explanations for the results produced with the Tri-key: calculated deception, which could be easily demonstrated if it were true, but has not been, or there is true magick at work; most people will be inclined toward the former view regardless of the facts, since within the limited view of the universe chosen, true magick is impossible. See the Slothful Induction Fallacy.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

After all this time, I still don't get what you are trying to prove. And to be blunt and abrasive, no one cares about your name being found in whatever arbitrary results TriKey produces.

Arbitrary: based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

So apparently, if I make arbitrary choices, I'm deluded, insincere, and result driven, and if I make intentional, reasoned choices, I am also deluded, insincere and result driven, which shows the criticisms directed my work are baseless, if not biased.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

What should be the focus is how does the frequency of the letters used as a system of English Gematria explain the mysteries found therein,

I agree, and have always worked toward that end. I can explain or provide solutions to over 40 of the most critical verses in the Book of the Law without having to rely on the Qabalah as a crutch to do so, while also providing a few Qabalistic insights that are unmatched. What can you offer?

(@herupakraath)
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Posted by: @threefold31

Are the numbers in the text or not?

Sure, and so are other numbers which you choose not to include in your calculations, such as those expressed using words, which could be counted as numbers if you chose to, but you do not, because doing so will result in something other than what you want. Following one's intuition and making subjective choices along the way and arriving at a desirable place is one of my definitions of will applied successfully. However, to think my results are deficient because they are not identical to yours is odd given the simplicity of my approach, and an absence of subjective choices.

Posted by: @threefold31

How is one to calculate the gematria of verse 1:39 without including the value of Thelema?

Hmmm... let's see...

"39. The word of the law is Θελημα."

Numerical values: 39 (decimal math) - 156 (TEG) - 44 (serial Greek)

39 * 156 * 44 = 267,696 = the Global Sum of Liber CCXX

It's ironic that you posture momentarily over the value of Θελημα, and then fail to use 93 in your calculations. It is no surprise you can multiply those numbers and arrive at the product 267696, given there are 29 different divisors that equal 156 or less that will divide evenly into 267696. All you have to do is come up with a way to find the values you need, such as multiplying a verse number times two gematria results produced with two different systems.

What I can do is the same thing I have been doing all along that no has garnered no recognition: apply basic gematria technique to the words, and produce a sum that equals a value represented independently in the verse, and also express the concept the word signifies: Word of the Law = 93. (the Tri-key).

Posted by: @threefold31

143 * {(ABK * RPSTOVAL) - (ALGMOR * YX)} = 267,696

So now you're using three multiplication operations combined with subtraction, but its all so simple, right?

Posted by: @threefold31

Now tell me how convoluted my method is, and how it's 'unheard of' to calculate a text this way, and that because no one else does it, it must be illegitimate.

The method was indeed unheard of until you did it, and I never said it was illegitimate, just unusual.

Posted by: @threefold31

In this equation there is nothing left out or repeated; no amount of fiddling such as you do with the Tri-Key,

I utilize all of the letter groups: nothing is left out, not one letter, and all of the values are represented as demonstrated.

It is impossible to have the letter counts express the number 362 as they do, and express the value 168325 with the groups ordered precisely to that end: asking the impossible is unreasonable. I recognized the value 168325 concealed in the letter counts without rearranging them: I reordered them so others can see the value expressed.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

Now you know the gematria system of the Tri-key is derived from the letter frequencies in Liber Legis, and accordingly there is no way for me to manipulate the letter values of the system, or the gematria value of the entire text, and you know the letter groups in the II:76 puzzle exist independently of my efforts, so apparently you are complaining that I rearranged the order of the letter groups in order to make their letter counts express the number 168325, thus breaking an imaginary rule of yours. Is that correct?

No. How stupid can you be? No one is argueing that by the way you have found all the letters (without numbers and a lot of other stuff, but still) add up to 168325. But the way you unsuccessfully tried to link this number with the puzzle was a joke. I have showed you that with your way of "proving" (LOL) the total with the puzzle is totally stupid and irrelevant. What is so difficult about it? If you use the puzzle "groups" or whatever in every way you like you can have everything you like. And we know what you like, know it for fifteen (or so) years, when you meekly asked "I have found my name in the puzzle, can I go on?"

Or to be exact:

Posted by: @herupakraath

I rearranged the order of the letter groups in order to make their letter counts express the number 168325

You did exactly that, and you even said that without your re-arranging it wouldn't work.

Posted by: @herupakraath

while choosing to ignore that the first three groups express the value 362 in exact order, making it impossible to express 168325 the same way.

But I guess you have retreated to

Posted by: @herupakraath

Because most people lack the qualifications or insights necessary

Which is always the best. Good luck, prophet! Do you really believe that? Prophet Tim? Like in the Monty Python sketch? I guess you do and I am sorry for you.

Greatly disappointed (again). And your passive aggressive answers shows it very good.

Posted by: @herupakraath

I can explain or provide solutions to over 40 of the most critical verses in the Book of the Law without having to rely on the Qabalah as a crutch to do so, while also providing a few Qabalistic insights that are unmatched.

Haven't seen one single one of those forty. Unmatched? Are you even serious at all? Please post these forty "critical" solutions so we can all have a laugh - or be silenced forever.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

without rearranging them: I reordered them

Tell me the difference!

katrice reacted
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Posted by: @herupakraath

Word of the Law = 93. (the Tri-key).

Yes, but not only is "Word of the Law" totally NOT to be found in Liber L but it also is a sentence noone would ever use. By the way "The Word of Law" is also 93. "THE word of THE Law" would be cool. Let's be honest: Tri-Key shows YOUR name, but nothing much more.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Sorry for this multi-posting, but this desperate move by Tim deserves it, I guess.

Posted by: @herupakraath

I utilize all of the letter groups: nothing is left out, not one letter, and all of the values are represented as demonstrated.

Yes, you do represent all of them, but some of them twice. Get it?

Posted by: @herupakraath

It is impossible to have the letter counts express the number 362 as they do, and express the value 168325 with the groups ordered precisely to that end

You got it! Without HEAVY FIDDLING it is impossible. And you did it before and I (and others) told you before: Once you start using "groups" more than once, everything is possible.

It is very easy: You post your 40+ solutions and your Egyptian Adepts New Magick, and we have something to talk about. If not, it is always your whining that nobody accepts you as prophet and they are all dumb! Ouch.

(@threefold31)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

I can explain or provide solutions to over 40 of the most critical verses in the Book of the Law without having to rely on the Qabalah as a crutch to do so, while also providing a few Qabalistic insights that are unmatched. What can you offer?

Dwtw

Are you really going to feign ignorance of the material on the TQ & Liber AL?

It's pretty tiresome to have this same conversation for over two decades now.

What used to be part of The Book of Mutations in 1998 is now offered separately:

commentaries-on-the-book-of-the-law

...for some reason the contents are no showing on lulu, so they are given below;

it amounts to about 100 pages of commentary, plus supplemental study material:

• 003      Preface
• 004      A Short Commentary on The Book of the Law
• 006      The Text of Liber AL vel Legis sub figura CCXX
• 023      Recursive Verses in The Book of the Law
• 024      Statistics of Liber CCXX - The Book of the Law
• 027      Verse-totals from Liber CCXX in Sequential Order
• 028      Verse-totals from Liber CCXX in Numerical Order
• 029      Verse-totals of the Chapters in Comparison
•       031      A Trigrammaton Qabalah Commentary on The Book of the Law
• 032      The Formula of Verse 39 of Liber CCXX
• 033      The Formula of the First Verse of Liber CCXX
• 034      The Formula of the Ending of the Words
• 035      The Great Cipher of Liber AL vel Legis, verse II:76
• 038      The Glyphs of the Cipher Arrayed on a Cube
• 039      Splitting the Cipher into 143 and 208
• 040      A Solution of the Cipher
• 042      The Secret Key of Liber AL, verse I:46
• 046      The Cipher of 2:76 - A Greek Solution
• 051      Pi, Chapter 2, and the Global Sum of Liber CCXX
• 053      The Word of Nuit and the Mathematics of Verses I:24-25
• 056      143 and the Formula of Nuit
• 058      143 and the Sheets of the Holograph Manuscript
• 060      Thelema, 93 and The Book of the Law
• 062      The Order of the Letters
• 065      The Gematria Range of the Text of Liber CCXX
• 067      The Trigrammaton Sequence in Liber CCXX
• 081      The Scribe and Prophet: Ankh-af-na-khonsu
• 085      The Pentagram of Nuit
• 087      The Star of the Tarot
• 089      Miscellaneous Number Mysteries in Liber CCXX
• 094      The Four Numerals in the Text of Liber CCXX
• 098      The Secret of the 19th sheet of the Holograph
• 100      The Grid-page of the Holograph
• 103      The Warrior Lord
• 104      The Three Grades of Thelemites
• 107      Three Ordeals in One
• 109      The Four Ordeals of The Book of the Law
•             Appendices
• 112      The Dis-Solution of Liber AL verse 2:76
• 127      Scans of the Holograph - Liber XXXI
• 195      The Text of the Holograph - Liber XXXI

Anyone who emails me at threefold31atyaaahhooo! can have a free copy

Litllwtw

O.L.

(@ignant666)
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Posted by: @herupakraath

[I have, over nearly two decades, persuaded literally zero people that my results are valid b]ecause most people lack the qualifications or insights necessary to recognize the key, a situation exacerbated by so many faux keys that are treated as the real thing.

Beyond comment. You are a walking, talking, thread-posting example of acute Dunning-Kruger Syndrome.

Posted by: @herupakraath

[Y]ou fail to realize the Earth is treated as one of the classical elements, and not a planet.

My mistake in not discerning this distinction. Perhaps this is because you said that "Pluto had been demoted [by astronomers] as a planet in 2007", so you defer to those astronomers and leave it out of your system. But you do include the planets Neptune, and Uranus, which are not included in most astrological systems, as "planets". Also, you mention that Mercury is "first planet from the Sun", which means you are not including the sun in your count of planets, which is good, what with the sun not actually being a planet and all. You also do not, contrary to most astrologers, mention the moon as being a planet, also good, again due to that whole not-actually-being-a-planet thing. Your list further includes the incorrect statement that Mars is "the third planet [from the sun]".

All this implies that by using the word "planets", you meant actual "planets", and the earth is, of course, in fact, a planet. My bad, as the kids say.

Posted by: @herupakraath

[A]pparently you are complaining that I rearranged the order of the letter groups in order to make their letter counts express the number 168325, thus breaking an imaginary rule of yours. Is that correct?

Yes, the "imaginary rule" is that methods should not be driven by the need to reach a predetermined result. This rule, far from being imaginary, or my little idiosyncrasy, is fundamental to science, or any intellectual practice that wants to be taken seriously.

This is because once we decide what the result is first, and then back-construct methods solely because they produce that predetermined result, it is trivially easy to do so (as you have demonstrated at such very great length). This means that any "results" produced by such methods are meaningless, self-delusional bullshit.

You just don't get this, no matter how many times it is explained to you, because you clearly literally can't imagine any other way to proceed. You freely admit that your methods are designed to reach your results, and make snide remarks like the above in response to me, and so many others, pointing out that this is simply not a valid way of working.

This brings us back to my initial question as to why you have, in nearly two decades of promulgating this nonsense, not managed to convince anyone. You have failed to persuade even one person that your "results" are valid, because your methods are obvious nonsense, in that they are patently contrived solely to reach "results" that are themselves trivial, pointless, and uninteresting, and you respond to criticism and questions in a thin-skinned, hostile, snide manner.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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@threefold31 Off topic, but is there a reason your books are in e-book format only?

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Posted by: @ignant666

and you respond to criticism and questions in a thin-skinned, hostile, snide manner.

Yeah, I noticed that too, and it is probably one of the most evident clues that "Timmy is NOT the prophet."

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Posted by: @ignant666

Posted by: @ignant666

and you respond to criticism and questions in a thin-skinned, hostile, snide manner.

Yeah, I noticed that too, and it is probably one of the most evident clues that "Timmy is NOT the prophet."

I WILL mention that Crowley was not above responding to criticism in the same fashion.

(@threefold31)
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Dwtw

Are you asking why they aren't in paper format? I could set it up so they could be ordered that way, but have only done that for the Book of Mutations so far.

Litllwtw

O.L.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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@threefold31 Yes, that's why. I personally prefer to have real" book. Though of course e-books have their merit. So if it is no hassle and doesn't cost you anything, you would have one happy customer.

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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

I WILL mention that Crowley was not above responding to criticism in the same fashion.

I know. It wasn't that serious. More to let Mr. Moss know that his occasional change of tone is noted. Of course sneering and name-calling in atrocious alliterations is acceptable.

(@ignant666)
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

[Timmy's] occasional change of tone is noted.

I have in fact not noticed any such "change of tone". He is pretty much always as i described him: "thin-skinned, hostile, [and] snide [in] manner."

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Crowley was not above responding to criticism in the same fashion.

Absolutely true, and some of my favorite AC passages are him in invective mode. The difference is that AC was extremely witty and funny, and Tim-Tim is neither.

And of course AC was an erudite and intellectually impressive writer- there was a terrific amount of substance to his work, not just a brittle shell of inflated ego defended by abuse.

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Also off topic, but I ask you Threefold31 about the following, as you have stated that your The Book of the Lauds, your imitation of Aleister Cowley's The Book of the Law, is a further development of the Thelema described in – and at the core of – the latter book:

Threefold31, "7. I will give you a war-engine. 8. With it ye shall smite the peoples; and none shall stand before you.", are verses 7 & 8 within the third and last chapter of The Book of the Law authored by Aleister Crowley.

"7. I will give you a life-master. 8. With it you will heal the people; the lame shall walk before you." (– The preceding quote is from the third and last chapter in from your The Book of the Lauds, an imitation of Aleister Cowley's The Book of the Law."

(Source: The Book of the Lauds, authored by Threefold31 - - - https://omegalogion.files.wordpress.com/2022/12/liber-221-the-book-of-the-lauds-1.pdf )

The said "war-engine" mentioned in The Book of the Law authored by Aleister Crowley, refers to a group used by him for promulgating and establishing the 'Law' of 'Thelema', also mentioned in that book:

"... the Great Beast 666 [= Aleister Crowley] was primarily and increasingly concerned with promulgating and establishing this Law of Thelema, and he quickly realized that O.T.O. would be his war-engine that would win this effort. It has become in effect a godly religion run by men who practiced an essential religion.

"Crowley would revise this many times as a result of further insight garnered from his Initiations and tribulations, but the main focus of establishing the Law of Thelema in the temporal sphere remained its focus."
( Source: "T Omphalos lectures on Thelema in the U.S. : Feb 20 – Mar 6, 2010 e.v." - - - https://www.lashtal.com/1262-old-news/ )

"... [Thera are] letters which covers a period stretching from this particular period of his life [Crowley attaining the grade of Magus in 1915] to the end of his life, where A.C. advices his students to limit the teaching and focus on technical stuff like ceremonial magick to the extremely small group that is double blessed with both the interest and aptitude for it, labelling it as a distraction from the real work, which according to him was to promulgate the Law of Thelema as a practical solution to such diverse problems as the labour problem, social unrest, crime and related subjects"
( Source: Spreading the Thelemic Word?, Posted by @patriarch156 22/07/2008 10:27 pm - - - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/35708/ )

Threefold31, the "life-master" mentioned within your imitation of Aleister Crowley's The Book of The Law, what does it actually refer to?

And also Threefold31, in case you do not now know what this "life-master" actually is, do you expect that you will get to know this in the future, resembling how Aleister Crowley at first did not know the actual nature of the "war-engine" mentioned in his The Book of the Law?

Aditionally, Threefold31, doe you understand your imitation of Aleister Cowley's The Book of the Law, as pertaining to "a practical solution to such diverse problems as the labour problem, social unrest, crime and related subjects"?

(@jamiejbarter)
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@wellreadwellbred - while commending the basic style and substance of your points/questions, you seem to have slipped back into your "A.I." persona a bit.  And I thought you seemed to be making such progress, too.

And while I tend to on the whole deplore the drop in writing standards lately especially on social media, in your case it could maybe do with a spot in the opposite direction and away from a certain formality.

Have you ever seen the film Terminator 2?  Wherein Arnie is instructed that he needs to "chill out" a bit and unstiffen and mingle more with the general population using the common vernacular - to get with the hasta la vista, if you get my reference?

Ya dig, comprendo?

NormaN Jay Conquest

PS I don't think I have ever come across "Tim the Prophet" (is that the correct style) here or elsewhere before?  Is there a proclamation?

(@threefold31)
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Dwtw

You seem to have forgotten that I told you I would answer no more questions from you until you answered mine first, which you still have not done.

And stop trolling this thread with off topic questions.

Litllwtw

O.L.

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The only thing I find off with wellbredwellread's post is that it might be more appropriately posted  on another thread concerning The Book of Lauds....otherwise some good questions by WBWR... also I do not detect any A.I. influence with WBWR post or posts, though I am sure that the A.I. data vacuums are glad to have more contributions from yourself to sample for style, nuance,  and considerable wit....

I think that a 'golden cipher" within 666's work is certainly the ability to deliver what becomes the never ending "punch line" for those who care; to try figure out.... or drop to the ground in a wonderful paroxysm of laughter....or merely crack a smile as this picture, which perhaps should be posted on the Asana thread...

Is Fo Hi holding a golden cipher?

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Dwtw

Here is a link to purchase a paperback. The price is just above cost to print.

All those holograph pages inflate the cost, which is \$19.04

I cannot vouch for quality, although my copy of the Book of Mutations came out nicely.

Commentaries on Liber CCXX

Litllwtw

O.L.

(@katrice)
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Claims of not wanting to cast pearls before swine fall short when one won't even show that the pearls exist in the first place.   I would love to have a chance to see these solutions and this new magick and make my own decisions.

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@threefold31 Thanks, ordered! Let me know whenever you have more books to sell.

(@jamiejbarter)
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otherwise some good questions by WBWR

Yaas.

I do not detect any A.I. influence with WBWR post or posts,

I was joshing with him there- pulling his leg. (I think).  I'm not quite sure whether wRbW has an outrageous (or any) sense of humour, yet.  Though I suppose time will tell.

Others have claimed otherwise on the bot front, however.  So who ultimately knows?  Certainly Well won't, if he is one - he could only think he know, and even then he'd just be a running blade program[me].  (Not a full deck of cards*).

Musing awaylily yours,

N Joy

* in-joke for the benefit of serious crowleyfans

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @katrice

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Claims of not wanting to cast pearls before swine fall short when one won't even show that the pearls exist in the first place.   I would love to have a chance to see these solutions and this new magick and make my own decisions.

It could be so easy, couldn't it? This is going on for nearly two decades but besides that (undeniably) the name "Timothy Moss" comes up quite often when using "his" method, nothing - that wasn't at least "very debatable" came up, be it weird using of Greek/Hebrew conventions, double use of gematric "groups", very free-style use of astronomic conventions - ever was substantiated. We have been promised proof of a new Magick, of a new "feminist" Magick, of undeniable "divine" origins, and now the solutions to 40+ most important problems. Books have been announced for many years, some PDFs (always subject to change) have been presented, but that's it. If he would just deliver what he promised we could finally dive into it and check it and, yes, see for ourselves. But, really, "Tim" being all of it, just cannot be it, or maybe it can, but it wouldn't have any significance at all.

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(@herupakraath)
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

No. How stupid can you be?

Given your statement is a personal attack, you might consider revisiting the site guidelines before you get in trouble with the management. 😉

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

But the way you unsuccessfully tried to link this number (168325) with the puzzle was a joke.

So apparently you think the gematria total for the entire book cannot possibly be hidden in the letter counts for the groups by scrambling their positions within the puzzle so as to not make it obvious. What precedent or criterion is your conclusion based on other than you think my efforts are stupid?

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

I have showed you that with your way of "proving" (LOL) the total with the puzzle is totally stupid and irrelevant.

You have shown nothing of the sort. You do seem to have a habit of arguing that in not utilizing a technique or approach that you deem relevant, or in using one you disapprove of, it unexplainably disproves my position.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

If you use the puzzle "groups" or whatever in every way you like you can have everything you like.

As opposed to using them which way--the way you like? A B K is a sequence of letters, and thus forms a group.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

You did exactly that, and you even said that without your re-arranging it wouldn't work.

Again, your objection precludes the possibility the letter counts in the groups can be used to express the gematria total for the text of the Book of the Law: what is your conclusion based on other than you thinking it's stupid?

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Yes, but not only is "Word of the Law" totally NOT to be found in Liber L but it also is a sentence noone would ever use.

Of course the phrase word of the law appears in verse I:39, and it most certainly equals 93, which only proves my point about your arguments.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

THE word of THE Law" would be cool.

Why is the former phrase unacceptable, and the latter phrase acceptable?

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Yes, you do represent all of them, but some of them twice. Get it?

You're referring to aLGMOR, which has one lowercase letter, five uppercase letters, and a total of six letters. Ironically, the separate counts express the number 156, which is not only significant to Crowley's work, but also represents the five classical elements as expressed with the Tri-key: Fire + Air + Water + Earth + Spirit = 156, consisting of the true underlying key to Liber Legis.

Of course if I had counted the letters in aLGMOR as the value six, someone would complain that I do not use all of the possible counts, including one and five--get it? I use all of the possible counts that can be derived from the letter groups.

To address your argument that Y and X are also lowercase letters, that could only be exampled if the letters were positioned next to uppercase letters as the letter a is, making your argument firmly rooted in false equivalencies.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

You got it! Without HEAVY FIDDLING it is impossible.

Once you start using "groups" more than once, everything is possible.

See my observation above on what the reaction would be if I had not used all the possible letter counts in aLGMOR: an equal amount of criticism no matter how I count them.

Posted by: @ignant666

Yes, the "imaginary rule" is that methods should not be driven by the need to reach a predetermined result.

Predetermined: an outcome or course of events) determined in advance by divine will or fate; predestined.

If there is a predetermined result involved, I am not its architect.

Posted by: @ignant666

This is because once we decide what the result is first, and then back-construct methods solely because they produce that predetermined result,

The letter counts in the puzzle groups are there, and demonstrated repeatedly, including those for 362, you're simply denying that fact.

Posted by: @katrice

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

They do indeed.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Dear @herupakraath. You simply don't want to see that multiple uses of "letter groups and sub-groups" is getting to nearly every desired results. And there are a lot of other "groups" possible, surely the ligature AB is another one, if you need another one for another "proof", you are welcome. Not only I have pointed that out. But okay, if you are so obsessed by the astonishing importance that the total letter sum is shown by this "groups fiddling", be my guest. If this "revelation" is one of the 40+ "solutions" to highly important unsolved mysteries of the book, I can only hope that the at least other 40 are somehow more convincing, or at least relevant. Or even better, have any practical value to anyone. I am sure your publication of these as well as the totally new feminist magick courtesy of Egytian Adepts is in the last stages of proofreading and will soon be out to finally convince us, that is, if you even care about convincing anybody except yourself.

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Posted by: @threefold31

I revisited your explanation for the three grades, and while I am certain you have not explained what they ultimately mean or how to achieve them, I was fascinated by one aspect of your work, the gematria connection between the sentence that introduces the grades, and your spin on the word Thelemites. For those do not know the details, this is the equation:

Who calls us Thelemites will do no wrong, if he look but close into the word = 610 (TEG gematria)
ThELHMITHS = 610 (Greek gematria)

To arrive at the value 610 for Thelemites, you transliterate the word into Greek; as you know, Thelemites is a term coined by Rabelais using the French language, that has been transported into English through the translations of his works; accordingly, ThELHMITHS is not an actual Greek word. Normally I would frown on this, as well as the practice of linking a common gematria sum produced with two different gematria systems, but they do appear in the same verse. I realized that what makes it work is the inspiration you had to convert the word Thelemites into Greek letters, so I decided to investigate the matter.

Using a software program that utilizes a form of frequentist probability, I typed in the sentence above, and learned that one gematria system in every 1000 generated at random will cause the sentence to equal 610. Applying the same test to ThELHMITES, one system in every 2500 will cause the word to equal 2500. For those two values to appear in the verse at random is the equivalent of spinning one roulette wheel with the numbers 1-1000 on it and landing on 610, and at the same time spinning a separate roulette wheel with the numbers 1-2500 on it, and also landing on 610: this makes the odds 2.5 million to one the events can occur at random.

Earlier today I was driving and stopped at a red light in the right hand lane. In front of me in the left hand lane was a car that had a license tag that read: 610 FMC. I added the Tri-key gematria sum for FMC and learned it equals 45, the gematria value of Aiwass, and thus concluded that Aiwass is responsible for the matching sums in verse I:40, and that you were guided by him in converting the word Thelemites into Greek.

The said "war-engine" mentioned in The Book of the Law authored by Aleister Crowley, refers to a group used by him for promulgating and establishing the 'Law' of 'Thelema'

Hardly:

Enginery of war = 114 = nuclear bomb
World War II = 93 = nuclear war

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Dwtw

That's an interesting correlation with Aiwass and 610, which happens to be a Fibonacci number as well. Indeed, the word Thelemites is not a Classical Greek word, and I think I make that clear. But it's an easy word to transliterate because the 'ites' ending is originally Classical Greek:

word-forming element indicating origin or derivation from, from French -ite and directly from Latin -ita, from Greek -ites (fem. -itis), word-forming element making adjectives and nouns meaning "connected with or belonging to." Especially used in classical times to form ethnic and local designations (for example in Septuagint translations of Hebrew names in -i) and for names of gems and minerals.

So you've got your Midianites and Jebusites and Ammonites, but nobody in Greece was a follower of Theléma, so they had no need to coin the term Thelemites. And the curious thing is that it is a singular word, not a plural, even though it ends in an 's'.

Litllwtw

O.L.

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Posted by: @herupakraath

World War II = 93 = nuclear war

Well, you are absolutely the first person to refer to World War 2 as "nuclear war". I always thought this will refer to a World War III.

Posted by: @herupakraath

I added the Tri-key gematria sum for FMC and learned it equals 45, the gematria value of Aiwass, and thus concluded that Aiwass is responsible for the matching sums in verse I:40

Who would conclude anything different?

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Me: "The said "war-engine" mentioned in The Book of the Law authored by Aleister Crowley, refers to a group used by him for promulgating and establishing the 'Law' of 'Thelema'"[.]

herupakraath: Hardly:

Enginery of war = 114 = nuclear bomb
World War II = 93 = nuclear war

herupakraath, irrespective of your gematria just quoted by me in this post, Aleister Crowley after attaining the grade of Magus in 1915, labeled technical stuff — like for example gematria — "... as a distraction from the real work, which according to him was to promulgate the Law of Thelema as a practical solution to such diverse problems as the labour problem, social unrest, crime and related subjects"[.]

( Source: Spreading the Thelemic Word?, Posted by Patriarch156 "22/07/2008 10:27 pm" - - - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/35708/ )

And also herupakraath, again irrespective of your gematria just quoted by me above in this post, the following is still the case:

"... the Great Beast 666 [= Aleister Crowley] was primarily and increasingly concerned with promulgating and establishing this Law of Thelema, and he quickly realized that O.T.O. would be his war-engine that would win this effort. It has become in effect a godly religion run by men who practiced an essential religion. [...]

Crowley would revise this many times as a result of further insight garnered from his Initiations and tribulations, but the main focus of establishing the Law of Thelema in the temporal sphere remained its focus."
( Source: "T Omphalos lectures on Thelema in the U.S. : Feb 20 – Mar 6, 2010 e.v." - - - https://www.lashtal.com/1262-old-news/ )

[Bold by me, for emphasis.]

(@michael-staley)
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herupakraath, irrespective of your gematria just quoted by me in this post, Aleister Crowley after attaining the grade of Magus in 1915, labeled technical stuff — like for example gematria — "... as a distraction from the real work, which according to him was to promulgate the Law of Thelema as a practical solution to such diverse problems as the labour problem, social unrest, crime and related subjects"[.]

So what are you suggesting here: that we shouln't take an interest in gematria because Crtowley said so?

Irrespective of the sentiments voice here, Crowley continued to explore gematria, as can be seen from for instance The Equinox of the Gods (1936).

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Posted by: @michael-staley

So what are you suggesting here: that we shouln't take an interest in gematria because Crtowley said so?

It would appear so, but he is misrepresenting what is actually stated in the post quoted, in which Crowley suggests limiting such teachings to those interested in them:

Perhaps it was a good thing that I didn't quote the letters which covers a period stretching from this particular period of his life to the end of his life, where A.C. advices his students to limit the teaching and focus on technical stuff like ceremonial magick to the extremely small group that is double blessed with both the interest and aptitude for it, labelling it as a distraction from the real work, which according to him was to promulgate the Law of Thelema as a practical solution to such diverse problems as the labour problem, social unrest, crime and related subjects

(@michael-staley)
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herupakraath, irrespective of your gematria just quoted by me in this post, Aleister Crowley after attaining the grade of Magus in 1915, labeled technical stuff — like for example gematria — "... as a distraction from the real work, which according to him was to promulgate the Law of Thelema as a practical solution to such diverse problems as the labour problem, social unrest, crime and related subjects"[.]

The problem here, wellreadwellbred, is that you have taken a passage out of context from  Patriarch156's  post. Crowley refers to "technical stuff like ceremonial magick". He may or may not have had gematria in mind as amongst this "technical stuff". However, in your extract from the passage you have deliberately created the impression that he was speaking about gematria. This is, at the very least, confabulation. It is also clear from Patriarch156's post that Crowley was not criticising the practice of such "technical stuff", but suggesting that it be limited to those who had both the interest and the aptitude for it.

Quite a spin on your part, eh?

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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Who would conclude anything different?

I'm sure there is someone. 🙂

While on the subject of the three grades named in verse I:40 of TBOTL, I might as well explain what they are, and how they are approached.

Looking at the Greek spelling of the word Thelema, three of its letters express the grades when transposed into Hebrew equivalents, and their Qabalistic meanings determined:

Theta: Tav: Earth: the Man of Earth
Mu: Mem: Water: the Lover
Alpha: Aleph: Air: the Hermit

The capitalization of the word Earth in the grade man of Earth, is the first clue the grades relate to three of the classical elements. The second clue is seen in the word Thelemites, which has a Tri-key English gematria value of 48, the combined values of the four elements:

Fire: O = 3
Water: L = 10
Air: M = 14
Earth: K = 21

OLMK = 48 = Thelemites. The other reason the word Earth appears in the grade name Man of Earth, is the letter that signifies Earth in the Tri-key, the letter K, is not present in the word Thelemites, nor in the name of the grade, while the letter L is seen in the name Lover, and the letter M is seen in the grade name Hermit, along with both letters appearing in the word Thelemites. Within the word, the phonetic spellings for the letters M and L are present: EL & EM; the letter E signifies the Sun, thus suggesting the grades are solar in nature, and overseen by the Sun god Hoor, who is the Lord initiating according to verse I:49 of the Book of the Law. Matching the symbolism of the grade man of Earth to that of the other grades using the letters E & K, all of the pieces fall into place: EM + EL + EK = 48 = Thelemites. In verse I:40, Aiwass uses the word us, indicating that he is also a Thelemite, with his element consisting of the element Fire, the element attributed to those things divine in nature.

To attain to the grades, the ideas relating to the element that correlates to a grade have to be invoked ritualistically, and on a regular basis; this is accomplished by envisioning the Zodiacal Array, and tracing a triangle over the path of the idea being invoked, and two other paths. To invoke the Sun for instance, the pattern traced begins with station one of the array, traces over the path of the Sun, then the path of Aries, finishing with the path of Fire and ending back at station one. The gesture of banishing reverses the pattern traced.

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Posted by: @herupakraath

Looking at the Greek spelling of the word Thelema, three of its letters express the grades when transposed into Hebrew equivalents, and their Qabalistic meanings determined:

Theta: Tav: Earth: the Man of Earth
Mu: Mem: Water: the Lover
Alpha: Aleph: Air: the Hermit

The capitalization of the word Earth in the grade man of Earth, is the first clue the grades relate to three of the classical elements. The second clue is seen in the word Thelemites, which has a Tri-key English gematria value of 48, the combined values of the four elements:

Fire: O = 3
Water: L = 10
Air: M = 14
Earth: K = 21

OLMK = 48 = Thelemites. The other reason the word Earth appears in the grade name Man of Earth, is the letter that signifies Earth in the Tri-key, the letter K, is not present in the word Thelemites, nor in the name of the grade, while the letter L is seen in the name Lover, and the letter M is seen in the grade name Hermit, along with both letters appearing in the word Thelemites. Within the word, the phonetic spellings for the letters M and L are present: EL & EM; the letter E signifies the Sun, thus suggesting the grades are solar in nature, and overseen by the Sun god Hoor, who is the Lord initiating according to verse I:49 of the Book of the Law. Matching the symbolism of the grade man of Earth to that of the other grades using the letters E & K, all of the pieces fall into place: EM + EL + EK = 48 = Thelemites. In verse I:40, Aiwass uses the word us, indicating that he is also a Thelemite, with his element consisting of the element Fire, the element attributed to those things divine in nature.

Yes, I see, M+L+K are three short, but if you give em all an E(1), it works! Isn't that called fiddling? Nah. Has it "immediate conviction"? Sure.

39 burning Liber L problems solutions to go!

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It's my best guess. You can do anything you like with Gematria.

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(@the_real_simon_iff)
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I am so sorry for triple posting but this nonsense doesn't let me sleep:

Posted by: @herupakraath

The capitalization of the word Earth in the grade man of Earth, is the first clue the grades relate to three of the classical elements.

I think this would be more convincing (not really but maybe) if Earth would have been the only capitalized word, of course it isn't. And according to your logic, it is totally irrelevant. It is also out of order, but I guess that is not stopping you from anything.

Posted by: @herupakraath

The other reason the word Earth appears in the grade name Man of Earth, is the letter that signifies Earth in the Tri-key, the letter K, is not present in the word Thelemites, nor in the name of the grade,

What? One of three letters do not appear in a sentence and that is significant? The absence of a letter is important? This really opens many doors for Gematria junkies. What about the other letters that are missing?

Posted by: @herupakraath

Within the word, the phonetic spellings for the letters M and L are present: EL & EM;

I am so glad we now have an EK, a retching sound meaning "wanting to throw up".

Posted by: @herupakraath

the letter E signifies the Sun, thus suggesting the grades are solar in nature, thus suggesting the grades are solar in nature, and overseen by the Sun god Hoor, who is the Lord initiating according to verse I:49 of the Book of the Law

Can you write a code to find out just how many words might be Hoory than? Because K doesn't if you don't put an E in front of it. And hey, how about EP or ET?

Posted by: @herupakraath

with his element consisting of the element Fire, the element attributed to those things divine in nature.

Well, I guess, the trick is to find a little fire in anything, and then you are good.

I now have to go to sleep before I explode, but really @herupakraath, if you are keep going down that path, I do not think anyone will follow. So, if this is not just a masturbation thing, please do not insult us any longer (in case everyone is convinced by this, I am using a royal "us" here). And of course there is nothing wrong with masturbation. But: really?

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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

EK, a retching sound meaning "wanting to throw up".

Insomnia, combined with projectile vomiting, are not particularly auspicious medical indicators. I thought wretching was "UK." Now EK is 25 - very martial, but UK is 26 - YHWH, himself. If you have a Chinatown, or a Vietnamese Market, nearby, I can tell you what herb-pills to get - very inexpensive.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

there is nothing wrong with masturbation.

The priest caught the kid doing this and said, "Didn't I tell you that you'd go blind?"

The kid answered, "It's okay. I'm only going to do it 'til I have to wear glasses."

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Thanks for a ritualistic approach to the chart you have shared!

By the way, which paths would help those afflicted by insomnia? Or insomnia combined with projectile vomiting?

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Thanks for a ritualistic approach to the chart you have shared!

You're welcome.

By the way, which paths would help those afflicted by insomnia? Or insomnia combined with projectile vomiting?

Hypothetically speaking, it could be a case of ill will, such as someone in need of discovering their true or rightful will. My suggestion is to start at the ninth station of the Zodiacal Array and work one's way backward through the stations in numerical order, by invoking the ideas that are represented by the paths along the way; the accumulative, combined values of the paths equal 97, the gematria value of Do what thou wilt.

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Posted by: @michael-staley

The problem here, wellreadwellbred, is that you have taken a passage out of context from  Patriarch156's  post. Crowley refers to "technical stuff like ceremonial magick". He may or may not have had gematria in mind as amongst this "technical stuff". However, in your extract from the passage you have deliberately created the impression that he was speaking about gematria. This is, at the very least, confabulation. It is also clear from Patriarch156's post that Crowley was not criticising the practice of such "technical stuff", but suggesting that it be limited to those who had both the interest and the aptitude for it.

Quite a spin on your part, eh?

Yes, it is quite a spin. If Crowley had believed these things were worthless he would not have long and detailed discussions with David Curwen, to name but one published example, about these subjects. Nor would he in much of his work post-1915 such as his autohagiography, Magick in Theory & Practice, Little Essays towards Truth, The Book of Thoth, the Equinox of the Gods and his two posthumous publications of Liber Aleph and Magick Without Tears focus on these subjects.

The context of the quote is Crowley discussing with W.B. Crow how to promulgate the Law of Thelema for the masses. In it he talks about preaching on town squares using Liber Oz, speaking with regular folks in pubs about unfair wages and restrictions on freedom, and yes (in light of the other discussion that goes on about politics) even that Oz implied the right to healthcare.

Like his contemporary to this quite, unpublished Clear A.C.'s Name Campaign that he drafted in skeletal form for McMurtry and which the latter attempted to finish, makes clear, he was not trying to kill the occult side of Thelema, but rather as he wrote in that draft for the campaign: "It s necessary to broaden the scope of presentation of the Law of Thelema so that people of all types may be able to appreciate that particular part which they can understand. In this manner the thought processes of the majority will be so directed that all those who can Understand the Law will be given the opportunity to do so while at the same time providing a gude for those whose Understanding is incomplete."

Moreover, m point was entirely historical. That is that we see a gradual broadening of scope  in Crowley's aim for Thelema from the Equinox era where it seems to have been a rather esoteric religion for the elite, to a broader religion in the more conventional sense for the masses.

Far from wanting to drop the occult side of Thelema (which would be hard as it is integral), we see a gradual shift to recruiting people to Thelema first, and from that broader base pick those interested in the "technical" side that would crown them leaders of the movement, rather than trying to recruit occultists and then work to turn them onto Thelema.

Moreover, throughout this whole process he did not stop nor planned to stop accepting those who came to him chiefly interested in the occult parts and that is a good thing, because otherwise Thelema would have been dead as a doornail. Even W.B. Crow whom he were writing these things to came to him chiefly because he was interested in the "technical" stuff, not because he had an ardent desire to become a Thelemite. For better or worse Thelema survived as a concern because of Crowley's prodigious output on "technical" occult topics on the one hand, and the notoriety he accumulated giving him free publicity on the other hand.

The change in his thinking along those lines happened due to historical events in his life, most being external such as loosing his two chief lieutenants, J.F.C. Fuller and G.C. Jones after the Looking Glass Trial, the entering of the O.T.O. in its aftermath, his continued disapointment with what he deemed a lack of intellectual acumen and discipline among what he once called "drifting occultists" to do such work to his standards, WWI, the continued failure of him to make good on his vision of Thelema as a force in the World (in the conventional sense), and some of which were internal such as his attainment of the grades of Magus and Ipsissimus.

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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

I am so glad we now have an EK, a retching sound meaning "wanting to throw up".

But "wanting" to throw up is not the same thing as actually throwing up, and if internalised within and not voiced, wouldn't make an audible sound at all, Ek-kish or otherwise.

Meanwhile the noise of "EK" sounds more like the noise of clearing of one's throat, wouldn't you agree?  A bit like the more well-known "AHEM", of which it might possibly be a derivative.

Talking of the wretched sound of retching itself, I prefer the classic Barry McKenzie-ism of "To Call: RALPH" myself, although "HUGHIE" is a quite acceptable alternative.  I used to entertain my girlfriend with making (i.e., imitating) the sound of these with various slight inflexions & subtle variations made between them in their 'vocalisation' and which occasionally generated some amusement between us when done on long wintry evenings, although I have absolutely no idea what their relative gematria might be and am unable to help our resident Cabbalists out here unfortunately...

Posted by: @patriarch156

Moreover, my point was entirely historical. That is that we see a gradual broadening of scope in Crowley's aim for Thelema from the Equinox era where it seems to have been a rather esoteric religion for the elite, to a broader religion in the more conventional sense for the masses.

Do you happen to mean from the end of the (original) Equinox era here?  This is because with the exception of the single edition from Volume 3 in 1919, I don't recall him doing much major tub-thumping for the cause of Thelema during the original run of Volume 1 from 1909-13.  This only seems to have gained weight from when he went to America/ advanced to Magus.  Please correct me (anyone) if you believe otherwise, though.

Posted by: @patriarch156

loosing his two chief lieutenants, J.F.C. Fuller and G.C. Jones after the Looking Glass Trial,

Yes, this seems to have put paid to any ideas of A.C. using his original A.'.A.'. as a substitute replacement Order for the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and for the 3 of them collectively being an equal (splutter!) triumvirate-in-charge (=invariably a highly unstable & generally unsatisfactory set-up), after which it became that vertical instruction/guidance model/system we all recognize today.  Presumably had Fuller & Jones not given him the cold shoulder the O.T.O. would have come to be dismissed from attention as being not nearly so relevant or important in the overall scheme of things and Especially in the "promulgation" of Thelema --- or does anybody wish to come forward and disagree with this (basic) assessment?

Z Joyy

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Posted by: @jamiejbarter
Do you happen to mean from the end of the (original) Equinox era here?  This is because with the exception of the single edition from Volume 3 in 1919, I don't recall him doing much major tub-thumping for the cause of Thelema during the original run of Volume 1 from 1909-13.  This only seems to have gained weight from when he went to America/ advanced to Magus.  Please correct me (anyone) if you believe otherwise, though.

My apologies if I was unclear. I meant that the period where he first launched Thelema as a serious concern was the Equinox era, starting with the book THELEMA released only for the aspirants in 1909 (the earliest surviving proofs being dated to 1908, but work on it seems to have started in 1907), where the Book of the Law being a book only for Zelators. Then at the tail-end of this era in 1912, he released the story surrounding it along with its ms in 1912 as part of the Temple of Solomon the King seres in The Equinox I(7).

During this tail-end he also wrote in the Golden Book of the Mysteria Mystics Maxima that the Book of the Law would be the only official Volume of the Sacred Law within his jurisdiction, using the leftover print-roll of the ms from the Equinox I(7) as part of the Minerval ritual. The Book of the Law went in this tail-end period from being a private book to a publicly available book.

While he had planned to publish it publicly as an appendix in Volume 3 of his Collected Works in 1907, the presentation of it then was entirely different than the presentation he gave it in THELEMA and then in The Equinox I(7), and it ended on the cutting-floor.

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Posted by: @patriarch156

I meant that the period where he first launched Thelema as a serious concern was the Equinox era, starting with the book THELEMA [...]. Then at the tail-end of this era in 1912, he released the story surrounding it along with its ms in 1912 as part of the Temple of Solomon the King series in The Equinox I(7).

Thank you for your further clarification with additional examples there, Patrirach156.  Would you happen to know of any other specific examples where Crowley seriously (=significantly) endorses/ promotes/ promulgates "Thelema" and the pursuit of one's true will anywhere within his The Equinox Volume 1 (or indeed elsewhere, pre- c.1915), or would that more or less be "it" now?

Posted by: @patriarch156

the book THELEMA released only for the aspirants in 1909 (the earliest surviving proofs being dated to 1908, but work on it seems to have started in 1907), where the Book of the Law being a book only for Zelators

Might you or anyone possibly know what the actual print run of this was?  And are also able to corroborate that, apart from The Eq. No.7 there was no further public transmission of The Book of the Law until at least the 11 copies published in Tunis in 1926, but with nothing else 'large-scale' until 1938 (unless one also counts The Equinox of the Gods from 1936)?  (This 30+ year hold-up is representative of a massive "two fingers" towards any conception of 'Do this quickly!'...)

Posted by: @patriarch156

While he had planned to publish it publicly as an appendix in Volume 3 of his Collected Works in 1907, the presentation of it then was entirely different than the presentation he gave it in THELEMA and then in The Equinox I(7), and it ended on the cutting-floor.

I take it you are referring to the fact that he intended to include it as an example of "automatic writing" rather than a transmission from a disembodied "praeter-human intelligence"?

N j0Y

Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 1320

[Bold by me for emphasis:]

herupakraath: "One of my criticisms of the TEQ global sum are the lengths required to get there, beginning with having to multiply the sum of the puzzle numbers, times the count of its numbers, times the gematria value of its letters, and then having to add almost every number in the book to its gematria total in order to match the value produced with the puzzle. For me that is the hard way to get somewhere, raising the question of why the number is not represented in the puzzle in a simpler fashion. Of course, that was Leo's ordeal, ...".

Sermo Nihil: "Leo's work is without the lust of result. At the end of the day, his work on the Riddle proves it to be a checksum."

What is TEQ, and who is Leo?

And why should said TEQ and said Leo have any significance whatsoever with respect to Aleister Crowley's Thelema?

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 2525

What is TEQ

and who is Leo?

Leo Gillis is the "inventor" of TEQ, also known as @threefold31 (I hope it is okay to reveal that)

And why should said TEQ and said Leo have any significance whatsoever with respect to Aleister Crowley's Thelema?

Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 1320

Seriously!?

"lashtal[:] Owner and Editor[:] "In the past I've pointed that this is not a 'Thelemic website' - it's a site dedicated to exploration of the life and legacy of Aleister Crowley - [...]". - - - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/lashtal-com-announcements/behaviour-on-the-forums/#post-7477 )

threefold31's invention TEQ, and the selfsame threefold31's The Book of the Lauds (sources: https://www.lashtal.com/forums/thelema/the-book-of-the-lauds/ - https://omegalogion.wordpress.com/2022/12/23/the-book-of-the-lauds/ ), riding on the coattails of Aleister Crowley, and a deliberate, chapter by chapter, and verse by verse, imitation of the latter's The Book of the Law, what do these products of threefold31's deliberate efforts have to do with Aleister Crowley's own life and legacy?

(@michael-staley)
The Funambulatory Way - it's All in the Egg
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 4448

what do these products of threefold31's deliberate efforts have to do with Aleister Crowley's own life and legacy?

The clue is in the word "legacy". Crowley's legacy is carried forward by the work of people who have been inspired by him to a greater or a lesser extent – for instance, Kenneth Grant, Charles Stansfeld Jones, Robert Anton Wilson, to name but three. You may not like the work of threefold31, but his work too has been influenced by Crowley, and his postings have a legitimate place on this website. If you don't like that, why don't you try simply ignoring his posts – y'know, a undemanding bit of self-discipline.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 2525