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herupakraath
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Sermo Nihil
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16/10/2020 9:32 pm  

DWTW

Very interesting. I can agree with you on the ALW system. It lacks quite a few things. Yet too, I think that people get caught up on the pure number Science of it all and forget the Art. ALW is an Artful expression, but lacks in Science. There are several different methodologies of approaching the "Gematria" of AL, including your own 'KEY'. 

For myself, the Prophet already gave us the Key's, only he was not to BEHOLD them. Why not work with the Gematria he already gave us....that's what I don't get about all this systems of English QBLH out there. He already gave it to us. Prove that wrong first....not by randomness of this or that, or by odds. You don't need a computer program to figure out something that is simple. He gave us the Order and Value. and it just plainly that simple. 

 


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Sermo Nihil
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16/10/2020 9:43 pm  

This made me laugh....thank you. Just out of curiosity, I ran this word through the gematria calculator on English Qabalah . com. It is a system of EQ that thoroughly disgust me, so I like to toy with it. It is 668. I was like, damn, that was close. 


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ignant666
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16/10/2020 9:53 pm  
Posted by: @sermo-nihil

668

The next-door-neighbor of the Beast.


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Sermo Nihil
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16/10/2020 9:56 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @sermo-nihil

668

The next-door-neighbor of the Beast.

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

🤫 🤫 🤫 

 

And bam....somehow this got posted in the wrong thread


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Sermo Nihil
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16/10/2020 9:57 pm  

it was supposed to go to Shiva's post on 666


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Shiva
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17/10/2020 7:18 am  
Posted by: @sermo-nihil

that's what I don't get about all this systems of English QBLH out there. He already gave it to us.

I have a severe incapacity to get on with ferenghi lingos. I will play around with some Hindi (like Atma = 51), or a Hebrew word or two, but I have always been a practitioner of English QBL, and I have always done it the way he gave it to us ... and so I understand your sentiments.

QBL is a system for ordering the mind - getting it lined up properly for its funeral. It certainly isn't the key to anything holy.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

it was supposed to go to Shiva's post on 666

The Archons are messing with you. It happens from time to time.

 


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Sermo Nihil
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17/10/2020 12:49 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

I have a severe incapacity to get on with ferenghi lingos. I will play around with some Hindi (like Atma = 51), or a Hebrew word or two, but I have always been a practitioner of English QBL, and I have always done it the way he gave it to us ... and so I understand your sentiments.

QBL is a system for ordering the mind - getting it lined up properly for its funeral. It certainly isn't the key to anything holy.

I love the Ferenghi reference. I have been using the Order and Value of the English Alphabet given by our Prophet and as developed by Frater Omega Logion for years. It just simply works. There is no kind of tweaking, which is a thing I detest. If you have to tweak something to make it fit, then it is not organic and is only a product of your own play. I have been down that path and learned those lessons hard. 

 

 

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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17/10/2020 4:44 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

but I have always been a practitioner of English QBL, and I have always done it the way he gave it to us

I didn't know that, the only QBL I've seen in your posts is with Hebrew letters. What is "the way he gave it to us"? I didn't know there was a consensus on this. Unless I'm mistaken, in your "ATMA" example you appear to be using Hebrew again (1 + 9 + 40 + 1).


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Shiva
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17/10/2020 8:33 pm  
Posted by: @duck

I didn't know that, the only QBL

I don't recall anybody saying there was only One

Posted by: @duck

I didn't know there was a consensus on this.

I don't recall anyone saying saying there was a consensus.

Posted by: @duck

Unless I'm mistaken, in your "ATMA" example you appear to be using Hebrew again (1 + 9 + 40 + 1).

Yes. That is the way he gave it too us. Hebrew letters with numerical attributions, with a column that reads "English Equivalent."

Everyone has to make their own QBL. I did. It is based on the AC method (with fiddling a touchy factorl). That's the way I've always done it ... and other peoples too.

It seems you are getting your feathers ruffled while speaking nonsense.


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ignant666
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17/10/2020 8:58 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

It seems you are getting your feathers ruffled while speaking nonsense.

He is, after all, a duck, for lord's sake.

Yea! deem not of change: ye shall be as ye are, & not other. [AL, II:58]


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Tiger
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17/10/2020 9:04 pm  

“ He is, after all, a duck, for lord's sake. “
Unless the Yith got him reminiscing and indulging in the experience of a human biophysical organism.


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ignant666
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17/10/2020 9:14 pm  

I think it is unworthy of you, Tiger, to accuse His Drakeness of being uncandid.

When someone tells me they identify as, for example, an anatid, i accept this. And we know he is not one of those Furries, because ducks, like the other anatids, have feathers, not fur.

And a talking, internet-forum posting, duck is such a rare phenomenon that, as Dr Johnson said about a whistling cabbage, or a woman preacher, it ought not to be criticized too closely as to performance, it being a wonder the thing is done at all [apols to any offended at me for quoting this very sexist but amusing formulation]


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herupakraath
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17/10/2020 11:39 pm  
Posted by: @sermo-nihil

For myself, the Prophet already gave us the Key's, only he was not to BEHOLD them. Why not work with the Gematria he already gave us

I worked with transliterated English to Hebrew for 18 years, and finally had to admit to myself, and most stubbornly at that, that nothing was accomplished in terms of explaining the ciphers and puzzles in Liber Legis.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

that's what I don't get about all this systems of English QBLH out there. He already gave it to us. Prove that wrong first.

Crowley provides the English equivalents of the Hebrew letters as a matter of necessity, otherwise there is no way to apply the Hebrew system to his writings. The proof that transliterated Hebrew/English is not the alphanumeric key to Liber Legis is evidenced in over a century of work with it that has failed to demonstrate anything of significance; the only way to counter my argument is to demonstrate the opposite.

Deriving values from English words or phrases using Hebrew gematria, and referencing them against Hebrew words with the same value, is meaningless, and at best a hybrid system, no different than the ALW system, or the TEG system, which both rely on the Qabalah to instill meaning into the values produced with them. The Tri-key is unique in that it is not a Qabalah, nor does it rely on the Qabalah: it is a system unto itself that provides astonishing results when applied to the Book of the Law.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

You don't need a computer program to figure out something that is simple. He gave us the Order and Value. and it just plainly that simple. 

There is nothing simple about the Book of the Law or its puzzles; if that were the case someone would have explained them satisfactorily a long time ago.

 

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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18/10/2020 12:32 am  
Posted by: @shiva

It seems you are getting your feathers ruffled while speaking nonsense.

No, just genuinely curious. You mentioned being a "practitioner of English QBL" and "the way he has given it to us" which seemed new to me as I have only ever seen you post QBL with Hebrew letters. I thought may be you knew of some method of English QBL given by the "Prophet" that we could reach "consensus" on but I now see that your definition of English QBL contains the intermediary of Hebrew letters. I guess that is the only method of QBL given by the prophet that we can reach consensus on, though I personally wouldn't call it English QBL. Not that any of this is all that important anyway.

You seemed to have misunderstood my post as being confrontational but if you give it another read (and notice the comma after "I didn't know that") you may see it wasn't so bad.


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Shiva
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18/10/2020 12:36 am  

I believe the furor, the mayhem, the riots in the streets, are due to my use of the 2-word phrase "English QBL." If I had expressed myself properly in the first place, I would have typed "English Equivalent QBL" (and cited the column in 777 for proof), in order to avoid confusion with English QBLs in their manifold manifestation. I do that stuff too, but it's different.

The 1-9 QBL (there are only 9 numbers)(Play the 0 [zero] tune when it can be heard). A=1, B=2, 'til I=9. Then repeat the cycle 'til Z=8. I have been using this since 1970. It is good for house numbers, tracking the cycles of 9 on the physical plane, and birth date analysis. I have found no use for it on planes that are extraterrestrial, starting with the Moon.

The 1-22 (or 0 to 21) QBL is based on the Atu, so we're moving right into the Equivalency (Balance, Maat) Zone. With one version starting at 1, and the other at zero, we have a decision to make. There is an intesting, very complex, system whereby the candidate gets sorted by Atu into the 12 signs of the zodiac. It's a defining system, like astrology, or human design. 

The 000-10,000 QBL is our well-known AC derivative, most likely assembled by Allan Bennett. Since I can spell BafometR, I (along with many others) I can claim mastery of this method.

All of the above is used by me, maybe one-thousandth of one percent of the time. Essentially, I don't do QBL any more, except here and there. Like Atma = Maat.


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Sermo Nihil
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18/10/2020 2:22 am  

DWTW

When I say English QBLH, I am talking about the letter attribution from Liber Trigrammaton, and as developed further by Bro. Threefold31, R.L. Gillis, in his Book of Mutations. Transliterating the Hebrew Letters into their English Phonetic equivalents, and using the Hebrew Gematria for the letters is minor league at best. Is it useful at times, yes, because it is what the Prophet used and does yield results, but these results are supplementary. For instance, if we take the word Thebia, this is ThHBIA, 418. And then all kinds of other "results" can be derived therefrom. I use this method because it helps better understand the Author. This being said as the Author is filtered by the mind if of the channel, or the author. 

The letter attributions he used in conjunction with Liber Trigrammaton prove Liber L vel Legis. That being said, I understand the premise of your work. Though I have asked you through other channels of multimedia to let me examine them, I have yet to receive any invitation to do so. I will give you credit in that you system is at least based on things found within Liber L, and I have seen post on FaceBook groups that have peeked my interest. 

I know the arguments against the work of Gillis, but I have yet to see something of merit.  And his work is only a continuance of Liber Trigrammaton, and what the Prophet gave us to use in reference to that.  You have never disproven his system and the fact that it simply works. And to be frank, yours is a system based on Qabalistic premises.  Our Prophet told us that Liber Trigrammaton contains the highest ideals of Theoretical QBLH, and he has given us all the keys. I am somewhat of a puritan when it comes to this kind of thing, which could be my own failing. But this is an old hat, and not one I wish to take off the rack. I am a hard core QBLH'ist at heart, it is the map of the Universe. When it comes down to it, the value of any of these systems is there innate ability to add value to that map. I posted my Essay on "the Kamea of BABALON", perhaps you should check it out. I even had to make up words to explain a few things, but that is the beauty of this language we speak. Maybe in a few more centuries it will have the ability to define metaphysical things as Sanskrit does, who knows.

But then, I am just that crazy guy in the back of the local transit bus of Father Sol. 

 


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Shiva
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18/10/2020 4:07 am  
Posted by: @sermo-nihil

I am talking about the letter attribution from Liber Trigrammaton

Oh. That one. No, I was wrong. We're not on the same page or the same column of "English Equivalents." But that's okay. Any thing will work, as long as it brings Order to the Mind.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

That being said, I understand the premise of your work. Though I have asked you through other channels of multimedia to let me examine them, I have yet to receive any invitation to do so.

Excuse me, but were you talking to me?

My post was immediately above yours, so it seems like you might be talking to me. Other than that, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

and I have seen post on FaceBook groups that have peeked my interest. 

Since I don't do Facebook, I must be seemingly mistaken.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

You have never disproven his system and the fact that it simply works.

Um, yes, this is true. It might be due to that fact that I do not care about, or want to, disprove his system.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

Our Prophet told us that Liber Trigrammaton contains the highest ideals of Theoretical QBLH, and he has given us all the keys.

The only part I read was were he wrote that it was "unsatisfactory."

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

I am somewhat of a puritan when it comes to this kind of thing

We will pray that you get over this unfortunate malady.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

perhaps you should check it out.

Excuse me, are you talking to me? I need to get that part straight before I know what to so, although the angels have already sung the tendency toward a response, or not.

Excuse me, but you seem to be on some sort of a agenda, a mission, to set forth some numerical map of the universe with Hoseas being sung to other mortal entities.

This will not go over well in the long run.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

But then, I am just that crazy guy in the back of the local transit bus of Father Sol. 

Oh, him? I thought you looked familiar.

 


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Sermo Nihil
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18/10/2020 4:27 am  

@शिव  (Shiva)

No, I was not talking towards you at all, it was towards the vessel who numbers himself 93 on the Unicursal. I will be more clear in the future. I am still getting the hang of the nuances of this site. 😎 😎 😎 


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Jamie J Barter
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18/10/2020 7:45 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @sermo-nihil

Our Prophet told us that Liber Trigrammaton contains the highest ideals of Theoretical QBLH, and he has given us all the keys.

The only part I read was were he wrote that it was "unsatisfactory."

Yes, I was wondering that too.  Where exactly (in the Liber or any else where) did "Our Prophet" tell us so and give us "all the keys", in so many words?  I don't recall his evaluation of it being any higher than "unsatisfactory", either - not the most fulsome accolade, particularly!  So if you could point out where this was in fact it would give rise to the acme of satisfaction, I would be very grateful & it would be splendidly top hole of you, and all that.

Norma N Joy Conquest


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Sermo Nihil
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18/10/2020 9:44 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Yes, I was wondering that too.  Where exactly (in the Liber or any else where) did "Our Prophet" tell us so and give us "all the keys", in so many words?  I don't recall his evaluation of it being any higher than "unsatisfactory", either - not the most fulsome accolade, particularly!  So if you could point out where this was in fact it would give rise to the acme of satisfaction, I would be very grateful & it would be splendidly top hole of you, and all that.

I am quite familiar with this argument: yet he saw fit to include the letter attributes of the Trigrams to the English Alphabet. "I append Liber Trigrammaton with the attribution aforesaid", to quote him. Its like everyone stops at the word unsatisfactory, and sees this as the end of the argument. I wonder why that is. Liber Trigrammaton is the foundation of Theoretical QBLH. Theoretical QBLH is the study of the structure and "occulted" aspects of the Cosmos. He relates them to the Stanza's of Dyzan.  The origin's of which are questionable, but formed the basis of the Secret Doctrine, an occult masterpiece. 

Did he see the Trigrams as 3-base numbers...no. And that is okay. He is not the end all on things to be revealed during the Age of Horus, just the Initiator. What is interesting is that he used the word unsatisfactory, yet did not express dissatisfaction. "Un-" when used as a prefix means....Not. The pun of "Not-Satisfactory" kind of makes me laugh. He loves to use knotted riddles. Given that he probably meant the vulgar meaning of the word, yet he riddles his writings with such things.

I say that he gave us the keys because his writings, in particular, the Class A, are full of intimate and re-veiling ideas and concepts. He certainly did not make things easy, but nothing about this path is easy. There are no sign post, no billboards advertising things; just the hard work of the aspirant and the dissolution of it ALL at the end of It.  


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Jamie J Barter
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18/10/2020 10:25 pm  
Posted by: @sermo-nihil

Its like everyone stops at the word unsatisfactory, and sees this as the end of the argument. I wonder why that is.

It's probably because he didn't go on to say anything (more) about the Liber which might appear to counteract the somewhat negative impression given by the word un (not dis)satisfactory; he certainly doesn't do so in anywhere at all near the precisely grandiloquent terms you proposed in

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

Our Prophet told us that Liber Trigrammaton contains the highest ideals of Theoretical QBLH, and he has given us all the keys.

You seem instead to devolve the citation from being within or related to Trigrammaton itself into the nebulous fullness of Crowley's works as a whole, or at least the 'Class A' parts of them:

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

I say that he gave us the keys because his writings, in particular, the Class A, are full of intimate and re-veiling ideas and concepts.

which you must admit would appear to be a kettle of an altogether different colour?

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

He certainly did not make things easy, but nothing about this path is easy.

Nothing? Or nothing? Or no-thing? (Or not any thing? [at allALL?])

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

There are no sign post, no billboards advertising things; just the hard work of the aspirant and the dissolution of it ALL at the end of It. 

& also the

Joy! (N)


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Shiva
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18/10/2020 11:34 pm  
Posted by: @sermo-nihil

it was towards the vessel who numbers himself 93

Oh him!  Achad thought he was the Devil. Or the Devil's creation. Crowley himself sort of hinted at that himself. This allows for plenty of room for confusion.

Personally, I left QBL behind a while ago, relegating to a cubit numbered 5.5 ...

image

It's based on the 7 rays and the 7 planes, plus 7-layers deep (according to where the cubit is manifesting in reality), which gives 343 places for the one thought of Perdurabo.

This is actually set up to be a Tong, a manifestation of the invisible order without a name on the physical plane. Anyone would do well to simply apply this inside themselves.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

. 😎 😎 😎 

Multiple emoticons might be viewed by some as a sign of immaturity. So I would recommend lightening up in this area of identification.

 


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Sermo Nihil
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18/10/2020 11:54 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

Multiple emoticons might be viewed by some as a sign of immaturity.

I was lead to believe by the youth of this day (namely my GF's 3 children) that emoticons were the new Hieroglyphics. Duly noted.

 

I love this arrangement of the 7 cube. Kind of pin points things on the hierarchal sense 


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Shiva
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19/10/2020 12:16 am  
Posted by: @sermo-nihil

Its like everyone stops at the word unsatisfactory, and sees this as the end of the argument. I wonder why that is.

"Everyone" does not stop there. Many, including me, look over the trigrams, the arrangement, the practicality. Hardly anyone finds it practical. Those that do, seem to present complicated explanations with no practical use demonstrated.

Personally, I will take note if you can demonstrate a practical application up front. That's the way it works. If someone adds up my name and birthdate, and then tells me my characteristics, and they are accurate enough, then I'll say, "That's interesting. How does it work?" Nobody gives a poop for ideas explained up front that don't do anything.

That's why that is.

 


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herupakraath
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19/10/2020 12:55 pm  
Posted by: @sermo-nihil

it was towards the vessel who numbers himself 93

Oh him!  Achad thought he was the Devil. Or the Devil's creation. Crowley himself sort of hinted at that himself. This allows for plenty of room for confusion.

Sermo-nihil was referring to me as the vessel who numbers himself 93 on the Unicursal. While experimenting with the sheet numbers of the Liber L holograph, I arranged them in a 13 x 5 pattern, and realized that by overlaying the unicursal hexagram over the numbers in a certain position, the numbers intersected add up to 93, as shown in my avatar.


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The HGA of a Duck
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19/10/2020 4:08 pm  

@herupakraath

Do you have a blog or something where you go into more details about these findings? Quite curious to find out more.


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herupakraath
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19/10/2020 5:18 pm  
Posted by: @duck

Do you have a blog or something where you go into more details about these findings? Quite curious to find out more.

The work needs to be published in its entirety to be appreciated for its true value. I have a file ready to go to the printer, but as to when is uncertain due to finances. I plan on giving away a few copies, so consider yourself on the list.

 


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Shiva
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19/10/2020 7:14 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath

Sermo-nihil was referring to me as the vessel

Oh. I see. I wonder why Frater Sermon on the Nile feels it necessary to write/speak in coded hints. We all speak the secret language, but when the lingo is further coded, it's like a person is talking to themself.

Posted by: @herupakraath

as to when is uncertain due to finances.

Lulu will print it for you and put it in a locked glass wbsite window screen. Your cost is exactly $0.00. I don't know how much that is in Euros or Lbs, but it's probably close to the same number.

 


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Sermo Nihil
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19/10/2020 10:20 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

Frater Sermon on the Nile

I like this name, perhaps I shall keep it. 

Posted by: @shiva

We all speak the secret language, but when the lingo is further coded, it's like a person is talking to themself.

It had the desired response. I spoke plainly towards the one intended.

Posted by: @herupakraath

I plan on giving away a few copies

If it is revolutionary, why are you worried about making money off of it. Just put it out there for everyone to get a copy of as a PDF. You will find the subject of English QBLH to have very few fans. It seems as though everyone who thinks they have cracked the code tries to number themselves in their solution and claim the TITLE "Child" as you have. Just because you have a code and this code happens to numerate elements of your name with elements the said code reveals does not in anyway fulfill any prophecy. Your essay "Squaring the Circle" is evidence towards this. The parts that are not proving yourself as "Child" are very groundbreaking, and I enjoyed learning that aspect from you. 

Posted by: @shiva

Those that do, seem to present complicated explanations with no practical use demonstrated.

I can understand this sentiment. The same can be said of any form of QBLH. Trigrams are very mathematical in nature and involve a lot of learning and getting used to. It is an entirely new approach to QBLH and I can get why people don't want to put in the work to get an understanding of what it is all about. It came naturally to me, and I have practically applied them. What good is the theory with no practical application. 


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Shiva
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19/10/2020 11:35 pm  
Posted by: @sermo-nihil

I like this name, perhaps I shall keep it. 

It reminds me of the infamous Night on the Nile, where we invited the families of members, and did our own Rites of Eluseus [sic?]. When Crowley did his, he had a bucket of Peyote extract for anyone to partake. In our case, Frater Shem, the Devil himself, put (slipped) LSD into the punch bowl. The results were beyond expectation.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

I spoke plainly towards the one intended.

Oh. I see. This is like whispering in class. Like passing secret notes under the rostrum to your secret allies. Okay. As long as you're up front about it, there's no problem. But you weren't up front. However, when caught, you readily confessed. So I guess you got away with it.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

why are you worried about making money off of it

It is my impression that he is not concerned about the Profit (making money), but about the Production (spending money to get works published).

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

for everyone to get a copy of as a PD

Yes. This would work. However, some people abhor mere pdfs, and others will eat poop and poisonous products before they will resort to the vulgar Print-on-Demand procedure, even if it's free. We don't know heru's tendencies, in Spanish preferences, run in this area.

 


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fraterihsan
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22/10/2020 10:08 am  

Very intriguing thread, I have to say. 

I enjoyed the show though, for what it's worth. 

 


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herupakraath
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22/10/2020 4:14 pm  
Posted by: @sermo-nihil

When I say English QBLH, I am talking about the letter attribution from Liber Trigrammaton, and as developed further by Bro. Threefold31, R.L. Gillis, in his Book of Mutations.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

The letter attributions he used in conjunction with Liber Trigrammaton prove Liber L vel Legis.

I was openly critical of RLG's work early in its development, knowing there had to be more to the Book of the Law than what his work demonstrates, and that there had to be a simpler approach than the base-three theories he has written of. Being skeptical of his work most certainly drove him forward, and caused him to work harder and dig deeper, just as the skepticism leveled at my work caused me to do the same. If I had accepted RLG's work as definitive, I would have never continued on the path I have taken, which justifies any criticism directed at his or any similar work. If a theory is correct, no amount skepticism can change that.

Much of RLG's work is understandably subjective; if we are to narrow the discussion to the evidence that supports your quoted statement, it has to rest on the global sum 267696, and RLG's ability to produce it using elements within the II:76 puzzle of Liber Legis. RLG arrives at the value by multiplying the count of numbers in the puzzle, times the sum of the values in it, times the gematria value of the puzzle letters: 9 x 143 x 208 = 267696. This morning I wrote a program that searches for three random values within the range 1-208, those used by RLG, had the software determine whether the values selected can be multiplied and equal the global sum, and then repeated the cycle millions of times. 1 pattern in every 35,000 produced at random were successful, which means the odds of random success are 1/35000.

Using the Tri-key, the chances of Aleister Crowley enumerating as the value 113, the sum of the last group of numbers in the puzzle, while the rest of the puzzle produces the value 418, at random, are 1/22 million. If RLG's work proves the Book of the Law, then so does mine.

 

 


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Sermo Nihil
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22/10/2020 4:43 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath

If RLG's work proves the Book of the Law, then so does mine.

 

Therein is the conundrum. For me, the whole numbers game you speak of, as in this set of letter-values having these odds of producing this or that number does not prove or disprove anything. The thing that attracted me most to RLG's work is that it is based on the accepted letter values the Prophet attributed to the Trigrams, and thus, is a continuation of his work. And it is not just about the Global Sum, there is so much more to his work than just that. If you strip away the Value and Order question and look at just the pure numerical work, then you would see what I mean. I have done a lot of work with his system, and have even expanded it in some respects. 

I have not had the opportunity to make an in-depth analysis of your system, though I have it plugged into my Gematria program. But you also know that his work is nothing like ALW or any other system such as that. 

That all being said, there are multiple paths to arrive at the same destination. I am sure that your work does prove Liber Legis. The premise you are working with is phenomenal. Both systems give insights not found in those "serial-skip-x-letters" systems.  


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herupakraath
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24/10/2020 3:16 am  
Posted by: @sermo-nihil

The thing that attracted me most to RLG's work is that it is based on the accepted letter values the Prophet attributed to the Trigrams, and thus, is a continuation of his work.

Your perception is incorrect. Crowley only assigned letters to the trigrams; RLG is responsible for conceiving and assigning the values to the letters.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

For me, the whole numbers game you speak of, as in this set of letter-values having these odds of producing this or that number does not prove or disprove anything.

What I offered was an objective comparison of results relating to the II:76 puzzle--if objectivity is of no value, then subjective assessments must be worth even less.

Most people never consider the measurable probabilities relating to gematria, which admittedly means little in most cases, but can be tremendous when there are matching ideological components shared between terms.

The first words I enumerated with the Tri-key are NUIT and HADIT; I learned they share the value 29, which forms a numeric link between them, and reflects their relationship as defined in TBOTL. The same relationship is supported even further beyond the use of gematria, by focusing on the value 29. The digit 2 correlates to Aries, the cardinal sign of Fire, while the digit 9 correlates to the cardinal sign of Water, Cancer, thus depicting the combining of opposites and the relationship of Nuit and Hadit. From another perspective, the value 20 is that of Capricorn, while 9 is that of Cancer; the two signs oppose one another on the Zodiacal skywheel, and also signify the relationship of Nuit and Hadit as complements.

The chances of Nuit and Hadit sharing the same non-specified value at random are 1/58, but having shown the value 29 is significant to the ideas enumerated, a test that requires both names equal 29 shows that only one system in every 54,000 can do so, which examples a demonstrable difference in  probability when the gematria value produced is held to be meaningful.

Now consider this: AIN has a value of 20, as do NONE and HAD. The meaning of AIN is NONE, while HAD identifies himself as NONE in verse II:15 of TBOTL; as a group, the equations are an ideological bonanza. In searching for other gematria systems that link the three terms together with a non-specified value, I was unable to find one, despite searching through over two billion gematria systems generated at random. The lack of results serve as tangible proof the authors of TBOTL were aware of the equations, and implemented them in the text of TBOTL.

Posted by: @sermo-nihil

I have not had the opportunity to make an in-depth analysis of your system, though I have it plugged into my Gematria program. But you also know that his work is nothing like ALW or any other system such as that. 

RLG's work is incredible, and indeed, not like anything else.

 


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threefold31
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24/10/2020 10:54 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath

Sermo-nihil was referring to me as the vessel who numbers himself 93 on the Unicursal. While experimenting with the sheet numbers of the Liber L holograph, I arranged them in a 13 x 5 pattern, and realized that by overlaying the unicursal hexagram over the numbers in a certain position, the numbers intersected add up to 93, as shown in my avatar.

Dwtw

 

Actually, I'M the one who laid them out in the 13 x 5 pattern.

You're the one who came up with the 93 aspect to it.

And still no one has refuted the obvious indication from that 13 x 5 page-number grid that the integer 143 is a key to solving Liber Legis. But that's a different thread.

 

Litlluw

O.L.

 


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threefold31
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24/10/2020 11:51 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath
Posted by: @sermo-nihil

When I say English QBLH, I am talking about the letter attribution from Liber Trigrammaton, and as developed further by Bro. Threefold31, R.L. Gillis, in his Book of Mutations. The letter attributions he used in conjunction with Liber Trigrammaton prove Liber L vel Legis.

I was openly critical of RLG's work early in its development,

 

Dwtw

You certainly were, and still are. It's been great fun!

knowing there had to be more to the Book of the Law than what his work demonstrates,

I suspect the 'more' had to do with proving yourself the Child

and that there had to be a simpler approach than the base-three theories he has written of.

An entire world of digital information is based on two digits. Expanding that to 3 digits is somehow complicated? I'd say it's 70% less complicated than Base 10.

Also, base 3 is simply what Liber Trigrammaton is written in. There is no disputing that.

Being skeptical of his work most certainly drove him forward, and caused him to work harder and dig deeper,

My job was to finish Crowley's work on Liber Triqammaton, which I did. Nothing anyone said or did caused me to work harder, or not harder. But when people put out their own clever creations of English qabalah, I certainly have been a staunch defender of the Holy Book that the prophet gave us. It is the benchmark against which others should be measured. And A.C.'s own initial summary of it was that it solved verse 2:55, as well as calling it 'the ultimate foundation of the highest theoretical qabalah'

What that means is simple: whether you like ternary or not - the 'ultimate foundation' means that the trigrams are the First Column in the 777 of the Aeon of Horus. Not decimal numbers, and certainly not Hebrew letters. But trigrams. They are the origin. Everything else can be related to them, including multiple systems of English gematria, the most important of which is the one left to us by the Prophet in Liber XXVII.

If someone agrees with TQ or not, it matters little to me, because it's not a creation of my ego. But any discussion of English Qabalah rooted in the instruction of verse 2:55, needs to include it. 

just as the skepticism leveled at my work caused me to do the same. If I had accepted RLG's work as definitive, I would have never continued on the path I have taken,

I'm pretty sure no amount of caviling or encouragement from me altered your pursuit of the Qabalah. I assume you're driven to the work because you're looking for answers. I admire your tenacity.

 If a theory is correct, no amount skepticism can change that.

I think we can all agree on that.

Much of RLG's work is understandably subjective; if we are to narrow the discussion to the evidence that supports your quoted statement, it has to rest on the global sum 267696, and RLG's ability to produce it using elements within the II:76 puzzle of Liber Legis.

How is a simple mathematical sum 'subjective'?

This sum is found in more places than the Cipher of 2:76; it is also embedded in the first verse of Liber CXXX; in verse 1:46 referring to "nothing, sixty-one, etc'; in the final verse of the Book, and in verse I:39. That's five highly significant parts of the Book that provide the same number. 

RLG arrives at the value by multiplying the count of numbers in the puzzle, times the sum of the values in it, times the gematria value of the puzzle letters: 9 x 143 x 208 = 267696. This morning I wrote a program that searches for three random values within the range 1-208, those used by RLG, had the software determine whether the values selected can be multiplied and equal the global sum, and then repeated the cycle millions of times. 1 pattern in every 35,000 produced at random were successful, which means the odds of random success are 1/35000.

This is cherry-picking the data. See above. You have to accommodate all 5 occurrences of the Global Sum. Here's the easiest one from Liber CCXX:

"39. The word of the Law is Thelema" = 39. 156 & 44

We all know Thelema = 93 in Alexandrian Greek values, but in Serial Greek values, it has the sum of 44. So you simply multiply the verse number (39), by the English value (156), by the Greek value (44), and you get the sum of the whole Book: 

39 x 156 x 44 = 267,696

 

That is a model of simplicity.

So, first, find an EQ that makes the English phrase "The word of the Law is" = 156, while the 19 letters of the Cipher = 208. That will get you one set of odds, that can then be multiplied by the odds against the three other occurrences of this global sum. There are 13 different letters in this phrase, and 8 others in the Cipher - that covers most of the alphabet, leaving only C,J,Q,U,Z, which would have 120 different sums. I think you'll find the odds get much larger than 1/35000

Using the Tri-key, the chances of Aleister Crowley enumerating as the value 113, the sum of the last group of numbers in the puzzle, while the rest of the puzzle produces the value 418, at random, are 1/22 million. If RLG's work proves the Book of the Law, then so does mine.

What is the sum of the whole Book by the Tri-Key? We are told to not change one letter, as if every little bit counts. I take that verse at face value, and add up everything, and get a total whose sum is

267,696 =  11 x 156 x 156

all of whose factors equal

884988 = 61 x 93 x 156

In the latter case, two of these numbers are significant in the text of Liber Legis, and the third was promised in the Book and later revealed as the true spelling of the name Babalon.

How do other English gematrias stack up against that? That has been my question for over 25 years. What do they reveal that Trigrammaton does not?

I actually like a lot of the results of the Tri-Key, especially because being a limit-case of what kind of value this Book can exhibit, it has to be considered in a discussion of the merits of a given EQ of AL.

 

Litlluw

Omega Logion

 


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herupakraath
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25/10/2020 3:44 am  
Posted by: @threefold31

How is a simple mathematical sum 'subjective'?

Actually I was referring to other aspects of your work, which are also found in any other comparable effort. Since you brought it up, I do not consider using multiple gematria systems simultaneously, along with numerous other number schemes to arrive at a value, inherently simple.

Posted by: @threefold31

We all know Thelema = 93 in Alexandrian Greek values, but in Serial Greek values, it has the sum of 44. So you simply multiply the verse number (39), by the English value (156), by the Greek value (44), and you get the sum of the whole Book: 

39 x 156 x 44 = 267,696

That is a model of simplicity.

In your mind it may be simple, but in fact you use three different numbering systems simultaneously to arrive at the value, while utilizing two mathematical processes, addition and multiplication: there is nothing simple about it. That's not an indictment of the result (not yet anyway 😉 ), just an observation of the process involved.

Posted by: @threefold31

So, first, find an EQ that makes the English phrase "The word of the Law is" = 156, while the 19 letters of the Cipher = 208. That will get you one set of odds, that can then be multiplied by the odds against the three other occurrences of this global sum

As I have pointed out in the past, within the range of numbers 2-156, there are 30 values that will divide evenly into 267696, so it is no surprise you can find numeric elements within verses that can be added and multiplied and result in 267696: my question is how can one tell such results are not simply luck? The answer is to apply stringent standards to the work. My comparison of the results produced from within the puzzle of II:76 using the Tri-key and the TEG systems is limited to the puzzle itself, which demonstrates the stringency required, while your suggestion to multiply the results from different verses does not. 

Your choice of verse I:39 as an example of intentional synchronicity is fascinating, given that I can produce a comparable result with standard gematria technique. As I have demonstrated in my writings, the real test of a gematria equation is having it equal a value present within the same verse the text appears in, a quality that even luck will seldom be able to accomplish, and yet I can provide numerous examples of it using the Tri-key.

We both know θελημα enumerates as the value 93 using Greek gematria; if the value is substituted for the word, the verse will read, The word of the law is 93. Applying the Tri-key to the verse: THE WORD OF THE LAW IS = 93.

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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25/10/2020 4:17 am  

@threefold31 @herupakraath

 


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Shiva
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25/10/2020 8:13 am  

It is very intense. It is called "high tension." It is the sign of either an impending implosion or explosion ... or ... a breakthrough into the next dimension.


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Sermo Nihil
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25/10/2020 12:50 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath

Applying the Tri-key to the verse: THE WORD OF THE LAW IS = 93.

I used your TriKey on this verse, why would you imply that it equals 93 when it does not. "The word of the law" = 113 in TriKey. "word of the Law" does equal 93, but not the whole verse-part as your post says. And when I test 93 against the rest of the book using TriKey, not a single word equals 93, nor does anything significant come through. 

And this is just a test for Gematria....there is so much more to QBLH than that. The Theoretical QBLH of Liber Trigrammaton does not need Gematria to prove it, though we can use Gematria to explain certain elements of it. 

And eventually, you even supercede the use of such devices as QBLH 


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threefold31
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25/10/2020 3:21 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath
Posted by: @threefold31

We all know Thelema = 93 in Alexandrian Greek values, but in Serial Greek values, it has the sum of 44. So you simply multiply the verse number (39), by the English value (156), by the Greek value (44), and you get the sum of the whole Book: 

39 x 156 x 44 = 267,696

That is a model of simplicity.

In your mind it may be simple, but in fact you use three different numbering systems simultaneously to arrive at the value, while utilizing two mathematical processes, addition and multiplication: there is nothing simple about it. That's not an indictment of the result (not yet anyway 😉 ), just an observation of the process involved.

Dwtw

To say this is not simple is ludicrous. Gematria requires adding up the values of the letters in words.

My 'three different numbering systems' include a) the unambiguous decimal number of the verse - 39, and c) the unambiguous serial value of a Greek word. The only variable is b) the english gematria of a phrase.

It is b) that is being tested. And by multiplying it with the two constants, the entirety of the Book is obtained. There is no simpler way to get to the value of a large Book; multiplication has to enter into it. If I were applying calculus or trigonometry to get the results, then it would be complicated. Arithmetic is not complicated.

Posted by: @threefold31

So, first, find an EQ that makes the English phrase "The word of the Law is" = 156, while the 19 letters of the Cipher = 208. That will get you one set of odds, that can then be multiplied by the odds against the three other occurrences of this global sum

As I have pointed out in the past, within the range of numbers 2-156, there are 30 values that will divide evenly into 267696, so it is no surprise you can find numeric elements within verses that can be added and multiplied and result in 267696: my question is how can one tell such results are not simply luck?

Yes, there are a lot of factors of the global sum. The way to tell that this is not simply 'luck' is to take another random sequence of glyphs of the same length, multiply them, and see what the result is.

The answer is to apply stringent standards to the work. My comparison of the results produced from within the puzzle of II:76 using the Tri-key and the TEG systems is limited to the puzzle itself, which demonstrates the stringency required, while your suggestion to multiply the results from different verses does not. 

Actually, this is backwards. if you got a result in the Cipher that applied to the whole book, then it could only compare to Trigrammaton if it also appeared in 4 other places in the Book.

Your choice of verse I:39 as an example of intentional synchronicity is fascinating, given that I can produce a comparable result with standard gematria technique.

Please do so. Show me a complete verse in the text that produces the grand total of Liber CCXX as produced by the Tri-Key. What exactly is your grand total anyway? And can I find it in a simple verse somewhere in the text? I dunno, maybe in the most important verse of the text?

 

Litlluw

O.L.


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