@michael-staley - Have you ever, even for a split-second, wondered if the '24 89' was anything other than '24 89'? Of course you haven't. Nobody has. Having quickly discounted the self-evidently nonsensical 'proof-reading marks' defence, why, I wonder, haven't the 'open-minded' ones employed their free-range brain-matter to question what actual meaning Crowley attempted to convey (within the context of a riddle)? I wondered if 'rotation' may be a contender, and from this notion derived fairly comprehensive results. 😆
Some only see the common level of understanding, approach, stance, kata and only take away the philosophy part of the teachings; and out of that group some don’t want others to have a different view or stance.
THERE IS AN ALMOST TOTAL LACK OF EVIDENCE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
You have made something of a literary career out of calling attention to some gaps/lacks/losses/contradictions in diaries, publishing histories etc, of events that happened more than a century ago, and of course much/most was never recorded by anyone in the first place.
These gaps/lacks/losses/contradictions, into which you read so much, and on which you base your entire series of claims, are totally normal and familiar to anyone who has ever researched any topic from as recently as 20 years ago, and of course finding reliable information gets harder and harder as time since events gets longer.
To say that anyone who does not agree with your absurd, far-fetched, and wholly unsupported, ideas "is, by definition, a slavish Crowleyite" is just idiotic.
He must be at the stage where The Trance impinges itself on The dream and the candidate is in disbelief yet there he is; and the only thing he needs to do to get out of that Dream is to get out of the way. So they end up again cycling down a wrong path; barking up the wrong tree and adhering to it.
Oh, I see. The various solvers (al-solveires), there now being four or five, if you count Micro, will rotate, each one taking the Seat in the East for one day. If we could only get a couple more, we'd have seven Kings for a Day. It'll be like The Ritual of the Seven Holy Kings, with a Queen Deity for each day of the weak.
You spilled some beans. Geometricians, Map-Architects, Qabalistic pretenders, Archetypes of the Devil in a Black Dress, or anyone able to do these things - do ye thus(ly) ...
Apply the numers 24 89, frontwise or backwards, to the degrees of the Compass-360, both magnetic and true, and apply said headings to the map, the stele, and whatever other artifacts are deemed coherent.
some don’t want others to have a different view or stance.
Damn right. That's why when people come here, as you know, they have to wear a specific uniform (varies with the 7 days and the Holy Seated One in the East 's Solution), stand at ramrod attention at all times when not working, and everyone must look out the same window, of which there is only one. Same view - Same stance is the Phrase of the Law.
These gaps/lacks/losses/contradictions, into which you read so much, and on which you base your entire series of claims, are totally normal and familiar to anyone who has ever researched any topic from as recently as 20 years ago
They are also "normal" and "familiar" to anyone who has been the recipient of a similar event. Not necessarily a Cairo Working, but just any, little, old acid-trip, or channeling, or ufo encounter, or vision quest in the wilderness, or a magical retreat.
It's hard enough for someone to put together their own history, after 20, or 60 years, without finding gaps or kinks in time (at least in one's memory). And that someone (anyone, including this groveling worm of me), was actually there! Things become a jigsaw puzzle over time.
"Glamour", and thus "beglamour", is among the few exceptions to the "Americans leave out the 'u'" rule that applies to, eg colour, honour. No one ever anywhere, except American tabloids that spell "cigarette" "cigaret", uses/used "glamor"
I wasn't aware of that, interesting. I only recently noticed that UK English has one of these exceptions too, in the opposite direction: "humour" + "ous" becomes "humorous", not "humourous".
Note that although humor is the American spelling of humour, humorous is not an American form. This word is spelled the same way in both British and American English, and the spelling humourous is regarded as an error.
Also, as I recall reading on this very website, some years ago, the paraphrases relate to a chapter from the ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead and not the stele. As for the text itself, has anyone ever read it and thought... Hang on a minute, how...?
Dwtw
Have YOU ever read it?
The fact that you are unaware that the Stele of Revealing contains text from The Book of the Dead tells us all we need to know about your scholarship, or lack thereof.
the Stele of Revealing contains text from The Book of the Dead
Readers of RTC's book may find the following facts useful, although for many here it will be a case of stating the bleedin' obvious...
The front of the stèle comprises part of Chapter 91 of The Book of the Dead; the rear has 11 lines, starting with Chapter 30 and concluding with Chapter 2. M Brugsch Bey was commissioned by Crowley to source a French translation and AC used this as the basis of his verse paraphrases referred to in Liber Legis. He also commissioned a very good copy of the stèle and it is this copy that he reproduced in The Equinox, etc. Relevant to this thread is that the copy introduced a deliberate error in one of the hieroglyphs on the front...
@michael-staley - I bet you do! I'm sure it will cushion the blow, coming from someone more informed... So, go on, @lashtal, give 'em the bad news... Perhaps to the tune of a apt little ditty...
It's fakey, fakey, Very very fakey. Its's very fakey.... 😆
@therealrtc Nah, I am sorry. But I hope that others will see the bloody obvious before April 23rd, so it's not all on my shoulders. But what's ten days in quarantine?
@the_real_simon_iff - So, your solution to my solution is withheld because: "I want others to "enjoy" your book too, that's all. " - This sounds like letting the kids play with their new puppy for a few weeks before you shoot it 😲
I have. There are several versions, some differ a bit. Any initiate who has set his or her little feet onto the Solar Barque at Yesod, then rode that ferry down the River Tuat, to emerge as the risen Sun-Ra at Tiphareth, has read that papyrus by direct experience.
There are other scenarios. The Book of Gates, for example. Same passing through the planes.
In Tibet, they call them Bardos, not Gates or Chambers, and the snakes and alligators are fierce-looking black banshees.
We also find Allan Bennett constructing Liber Israfel (The Invocation of Thoth) from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. So, those old papyruses papyri seem to lie at the very heart of the Thelemic current.
With the Iff Revelation now pending, I see the seven secret chiefs are drawing near unto the council chamber. If it were only a matter of Democrats and Republicans (Labour - Tories), there could be a vote. But, no, alas, there are seven distinct variances. Some chiefs have created their own letters of the English alphabet, others have attributed new numbers thereto. Some have found their own name hidden in the maze.
RTC approaches the council chamber with the most noise, a veritable host of trumpeters and drum-beaters, while he - born aloft by the elephant who supports the universe, utters obscenities and challenges.
NOTE: This is important to understand.
Long ago, psychologists determined 3 grades of advertising: Attractive Neutral Disgusting
After testing human subjects, they found the Neutral (just bland information) category caught no one's attention. But the Disgusting (references to old, smelly, tennis shoes) ads got just as much response as the Attractive (interesting ads.
Feel free to apply this non-artificial intelligence to known marketing techniques now under way.
“ We also find Allan Bennett constructing Liber Israfel (The Invocation of Thoth) from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. So, those old papyruses papyri seem to lie at the very heart of the Thelemic current. “
Anyone got a tally on the number of letters used and what piece of paper got used and when and why ? Maybe someone with a data collection mind set can put together the truth of the Liber.
@the_real_simon_iff - Is your forthcoming bolt of destruction accompanied by proofreading marks, edits, changes, deletions and other lacunae of the Crowley self-preservation school, or unadulterated as Aiwass' old, smelly, tennis shoes delivered unto you? 😩
@therealrtc I am sorry, no, just simple common sense and logic. Without any propaganda involved. In fact, not proving anything, but - I am sorry in advance - disproving your "solution" [sic!] alone. There are some gematriatic gymnastics in your "solution" [sic!] that I won't cover because else I had to cover all those gematriatic gymnastics that all those other solvers have recently presented. And since Gematria is so intrinsically personal you can't blame or cheer anyone for it, I am only out for "common sense", "logic", "probability" and "visual evidence" that proves stuff or not.
Again, please don't try to push me in some Stupid-Crowleyite or McOTO-ish corner, this is all just about you and what you have promised to deliver.
He [AC] also commissioned a very good copy of the stèle and it is this copy that he reproduced in The Equinox, etc. Relevant to this thread is that the copy introduced a deliberate error in one of the hieroglyphs on the front...
I wonder if that could have been the same copy as the one which accompanied him to Netherwood and then eventually got passed on to Grady McMurtry at the Californian 'fire sale' of '69? Presumably if so it's in the (c)O.T.O. archives/ safe depository but if not, does anybody happen to know what happened to it (ditto the copy that was embroidered for him by one of his scarlet women whose name escapes me at present?)
Here's winking at you, with one eye open and one eye closed
Jerry Cornelius (who saw the McM Stele) and I undertook a lengthy comparison of data regarding this matter. Conclusion: McM may have purched the Crowley Stele repoduction, or he may have bought on of the many photographic copies (every member had one), many of which were painted or colored.
Sorry but who is this guy? I've heard of him. This is the type of behavior that dooms Thelema for the foreseeable future. People taking it upon themselves to act as Gods encouraged by something written in a Holy Book and acting out in revenge? Of course completely justified by the scriptures! Wow. Where have I heard that before? Really terrible. Burn all books lest you think one is true!
That would be Grady McMurtry, "Caliph" and founder of the (c)OTO, an alcoholic who sold the Thoth tarot deck rights to U.S. games for $150 "beer money", at a time when he did not own those rights.
Dubbed by AC "Cunt #1", or, more decorously, "Hymenaeus Alpha". An old friend of Shiva's.
The letter was received by us down on the ranch in olden Mexico. In addition to McM with the stele, there was a pic of him oned on 2000 micros of Acid. Everyone looked at that pic and said, "Wow, is he stoned or what?"
Frater Sol replied to that letter, using the Los Angeles address, but he mailed it from Mexico. Will anyone ever believe the stupidity of this man? McM then made up all the Manson lies and told the FBI where we-was. McM engineered the whole propaganda marketing scheme and painted the story that came our in Sanders' book.
That picture shows a pretty nice stele. I would guess that he might really have the Crowley reproduction. But there is no way to tell. I can't imagine any member putting that relic on the shelf for sale, but her highness, the guru, sent the message to sell everything. I always thought that included everything at Solar Ranch, not the artifacts from the temple in L.A.
But by that time, nobody was left but Neophytes, and sometimes Neophytes don't know Shinola from a Stele.
Kinda strange that a guy who is claiming to be the reincarnation of you-know-who is not familiar with the name of the person most responsible for kick-starting/ applying the defibrillators to the Order most associated with him, and to whom he bequeathed the copyrights in his estate (and personally met and played chess with, no less, during WW2)?
That picture shows a pretty nice stele. I would guess that he might really have the Crowley reproduction.
McM sure looks like the cat who got the canary in it, anyway... (And in view of the shortage of ready beer money, I wonder if he haggled for a better deal?)
Kinda strange that a guy who is claiming to be the reincarnation of you-know-who is not familiar with the name of the person most responsible for kick-starting/ applying the defibrillators to the Order most associated with him, and to whom he bequeathed the copyrights in his estate (and personally met and played chess with, no less, during WW2)?
I'll have something to say about those type of things when the time is right. Memory, karma, how one evolves through the choices we make, etc.
But in case anyone didn't know (i've alluded to it a few times) I have been totally winging it.
I've read about 1% of Crowley's actual writings and about 2% maybe less of the biographical information available. Possibly even less than that as there are volumes.
The reason for this is partly circumstances and the chaos that ensued upon entering this realm in January 2010. I've moved across the world a few times. Bar fights. Death threats. Running for the border. Lost many of my books. Been Evicted. Been broke. Been flush. Been drunk. Smoked crack. Smoked pot. Smoked hash. Been injected with massive amounts of morphine in the hospital. Gained and lost 50 lbs a couple times. Invoked the Apocalypse (sorry I was a bit late) Been followed through airports. Trolled by 3 letter agencies. Jumped off a 5 story building and busted up my body. But things are good these days. Thank you.
The other is that I am generally a clever and somewhat intelligent moron who has poor study habits and an over abundance of confidence in my ability to get things done. Now this may or not benefit me in real life. I'm definitely laid back. I tend to go about things differently. But I do tend to get things done so you decide.
How am i doing? I've lasted 10 years thus far among some of the most meticulous and studied Crowley experts in the world and still haven't run home with my tail between my legs? Unlike a few others. Now it might help that I made a career a out of embarrassing myself publicly. But given these facts I'd give myself a C grade at worst thus far.
I did recently ask the I-Ching if I should read all the Crowley books? Should I even bother? That's how lazy I can be. The I-Ching was much better to do so. So it will be done. But it might be that I do everything backwards. And read everything after the battle is won.
As for memory I forget peoples names from three years ago that were were pretty good friends. I forget the names of gals i've fucked. And I couldn't tell you what I had for dinner last Tuesday if my life depended on it. But i do remember some things. And I do recognize the Riddle of Aiwass. So that's why I'm here.
But feel to use this as evidence for or against my assertions. I think it can swing either way. Sort of like the man himself.
and to whom he bequeathed the copyrights in his estate
Doubtless a slip on your part, Jamie, but he didn't. It was all left to Karl Germer. Not that it mattered much, because being an undischarged bankrupt it's doubtful that the copyrights were his to leave to anybody.
"... being an undischarged bankrupt it's doubtful that the copyrights were his to leave to anybody."
If only Lafayette Ronald Hubbard had known this. With his cash to flash and deep interest in Crowley's writings, it is likely that he would have bought the copyrights of AC's estate from the official receiver of those copyrights, if he had known they were up for grabs.
and to whom he bequeathed the copyrights in his estate
Doubtless a slip on your part, Jamie, but he didn't. It was all left to Karl Germer. Not that it mattered much, because being an undischarged bankrupt it's doubtful that the copyrights were his to leave to anybody.
If at the time of his bankruptcy if these copyrights were deemed worthless and therefore not taken from Crowley I would think that Crowley would retain full ownership of them.
I would think any claim to those copyrights could only come years later if Crowley had mis-stated their value, hidden them as an asset, or attempted some other form of deception.
If your a well to do socialite suing some poor junkie with a notebook full of prophecies and poems (perhaps how Crowley was viewed by the plaintiff?) you're looking for hard assets and cash, not fairy tales. A book of poems or a book about hocus pocus stuff could easily be over-looked.
If those writings become valuable later I would think it would be out of bounds to retroactively claim ownership?
If at the time of his bankruptcy if these copyrights were deemed worthless and therefore not taken from Crowley I would think that Crowley would retain full ownership of them.
The copyrights were purchased by the O.T.O. from the U.K. Official Receiver in the late 1980s or early 1990s, so clearly both parties thought that they were the Official Receiver's to sell. I doubt that the O.T.O. would have paid for them if their legal advice had not concluded that the copyrights were indeed with the Official Receiver - after all, they had for many years claimed that the copyrights were left to them under the terms of Crowley's Will, a claim that had been upheld by at least one American Court as a "Finding of Fact".
No, no. McM only got a note that permitted him to reorganize the Ordo. Copyrights were bequeathed to "OTO" of which Germer was to Tong-boss. Ha, ha. AC did not own the copyrights; the King/Queen usurped them. You know the story. Let's not confuse any folks who are new to "copyright fiddling."
McM sure looks like the cat who got the canary in it, anyway... (And in view of the shortage of ready beer money, I wonder if he haggled for a better deal?)
When McM bought the stele, he had just come from Wash DC, where he had been employed by the gov. He probably was not short of money yet. But when one quits the gov and re-enrolls in the remants of Agape Lodge OTO, the shortage of beer money is not far away.
I've moved across the world a few times. Bar fights. Death threats. Running for the border. Lost many of my books. Been Evicted. Been broke. Been flush. Been drunk. Smoked crack. Smoked pot. Smoked hash. Been injected with massive amounts of morphine in the hospital. Gained and lost 50 lbs a couple times. Invoked the Apocalypse (sorry I was a bit late) Been followed through airports. Trolled by 3 letter agencies. Jumped off a 5 story building and busted up my body.
These are all just excuses for not reading The Confusions Confessions. You don't need to read those other AC books written by other people. All you need is Confessions and Gems from the Equinox, plus a dry cave in the hills.
I would think any claim to those copyrights could only come years later
The copyright laws have changed two or three times since AC started writing, and have changed drastically since he wrote his last words. At least in the USA. You may notice that (most if not all) AC's books do not bear a (c) imprint. Nobody listed a (c) back then.
Then there was a phase where you HAD to list a (c), plus register with the (c) Office. That's the era I grew up in.
Then the (c) became optional. Anybody's (c)right was auto-embedded in one's works. This is the present era of (c)righting (USA). Similar in UK.
Anyway, it's all (c)public-domain now (maybe a few exceptions), so we can flush all prior (c) problems ... except for McM/(c)OTO vs The Game Co over the Thoth deck.
McM may have purched the Crowley Stele repoduction, or he may have bought on of the many photographic copies (every member had one), many of which were painted or colored.
He also appears to be holding a book in front of the stele. Could this be some "important" copy of Liber AL to go along with the "important" copy of the stele?
These are all just excuses for not reading The Confusions Confessions. You don't need to read those other AC books written by other people. All you need is Confessions and Gems from the Equinox, plus a dry cave in the hills.
Ok thanks. Dry cave and time I have.
I don't have many books but Confessions (i've read some of it) I have two copies hard and soft covers. Perdurabo (read sporadically but used as a reference mostly), Sutin's Do What Thou Wilt (read it) and two big books titled Magick. One is the big blue brick I think?
The other is AC's classic Magick. And Tobias Churton's first AC book (ain't read it) and some obscure paperback bio and a few obscure books like The Beast Demystified by Hutchinson, Remembering AC by Kenneth Grant, Megatherion by Francis King, Portable Darkness by ?, The Legend of AC by Regardie, and The Book of the Law which i've read many times.
Digitally I have Magick Without Tears and Diary of a Drug Fiend (lost my vintage copy) and Book of Lies (lost hard copy) and lots of other stuff including the controversial Black Flag collection which I believe @RTC put together?
I bought the second copy of Confessions while visiting Cambodia in 2014 and had fun inscribing it with some of my anagrams and banter at the time. When I had my incident and was in the hospital for five months i had a friend sell all my Crowley books. But he got pennies for them at a used bookstore. It took me two months of nagging from my hospital bed but i ended up getting all of them back including the paperback I abstained (sp lol) in Phnom Penh.
Gems of the Equinox i've never run across but I can purchase from Amazon for $100 or so and get it sent or brought to me. It's a big book 1100 pages.
He also appears to be holding a book in front of the stele. Could this be some "important" copy of Liber AL to go along with the "important" copy of the stele?
Yeah. That is one of the 1,000 Liber ALs printed by Solar Lodge. They are rare now (@200-300), but they were essentially just copies of the Agape Lodge version, Not so "important."
@elitemachinery - Re-get, and re-read, a paper copy of The Book Of Lies. That and the Confessions got me into this whole business as a youth. Crowley's best work (TBOL), and i say this as person who is skeptical about sex magick (the ostensible topic) as a means of effecting change according to will.
The edition of Magick with the blue cover is indeed the one folks call the Big Blue Brick.
I just checked Gems on eBay. The cheapest one is $39.99, free shipping.I guess there's been a Gem-inflation). Ignant is correct about Lies. It is unique and comparable to nothing else, except maybe a Zen master whacking your cranium with a bo (stick).
@elitemachinery - Re-get, and re-read, a paper copy of The Book Of Lies. That and the Confessions got me into this whole business as a youth. Crowley's best work (TBOL), and i say this as person who is skeptical about sex magick (the ostensible topic) as a means of effecting change according to will.
The edition of Magick with the blue cover is indeed the one folks call the Big Blue Brick.
Ok will do thanks Ignant. I remember you using the term Big Blue Brick recently and looking at my copy this evening I thought "This must be it!"
I just checked Gems on eBay. The cheapest one is $39.99, free shipping.I guess there's been a Gem-inflation). Ignant is correct about Lies. It is unique and comparable to nothing else, except maybe a Zen master whacking your cranium with a bo (stick).
Great! I have two RTC's books and Shiva's new book on order plus I will buy these others and have them all sent or brought over depending (probably sent due to covid.)
Meanwhile I will continue with Confessions. I must admit the quick witted British humor and cultural references are often wasted on my low brow intellect and lack of formal education. But I will do my best!
Saturn and Mars are currently in Aquarius by the way. A nice shift away from Capricorn. And a swift kick in the arse for us Aquarian's. Thanks guys.
I was 11-12 when i first read Confessions. I did not get lots of things, but i looked things up in reference books. At least you have the internet to try to figure out his jokes and references! And all of us to help, of course.
And lord will you learn a lot if you are diligent in pursuing his jokes and references.
The Big Blue Brick (Big Blue Breezeblock to the Brits, for some reason, even though they have bricks there (a "breezeblock" is called a "cinderblock" in God's Country)) is a superb work of scholarship, and shows that "Cunt #1" is capable of some very good work when he isn't too busy hanging with porn stars and has-been musicians. [Note to Mr. Blow: If you have had sex with Sasha Grey, you may have something in common with certain OHOs]
One wishes he would put his nose to the grindstone again and get the full Confessions in print!
The Big Blue Brick (Big Blue Breezeblock to the Brits, for some reason, even though they have bricks there
One of the chief reasons is because Mr Breeze put a block on poor old Mr Grant & Mr Symonds' version of Magick from ever appearing in the light of day again...
And a breezeblock is a great, thundering oversized version of a normal sized brick, where attention is first drawn to its impressively ostentatious massive physicality as a feature far more than anything else that might relate to its functional merit.
Altogether far more descriptive than mere "brick", in my opinion.
shows that "Cunt #1" is capable of some very good work when he isn't too busy hanging with porn stars and has-been musicians.
"Cunt #2", surely?
And when he's not getting stuck down labyrinthine rabbit-holes of his own making, and monopolising editorial production work on Crowleyana so he can garner all the kudos, the credit and the praise
⚗️
