The Race to Conquer...
 
Notifications
Clear all

[Closed] The Race to Conquer eLGMOR - A Review

Page 6 / 10

Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4204
 
Posted by: @shiva

sigh

Hear me, ye people of sighing . . .


hadgigegenraum
(@hadgigegenraum)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 382
 

@ignant666 @shiva @michaelstaley

Requests Granted!

Fulfillment considering the DUtchee, thus by DDS, follow the river, there is an island 

go there, by canoe and before the month of the fool, but no later than jUne

why AugUst would do and then there and for

the glad word might be Oesoposapuseopus or so understood ~

for there x ac did his forty days and nights

to forty minutes if is all that is needed

great work to ford into the forest of an eternity 

be that but four seconds

bout the directions

and sink

Upe'

Hpe'

93

HG


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1862
 

RTC is projecting his idea onto another ( Crowley ).
Like the lower levels of mankind
with their discursive drivel, seeking
to pull down others to their own level
of understanding.

Thus cracked out his bogus.


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6290
 
Posted by: @michael-staley

Hear me, ye people of sighing . . .

... and of profound regret.

 


the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
Topic starter  
Posted by: @shiva

... and of profound regret.

@shiva Why is that? Did you order it?


Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1825
 
Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

...

be that but four seconds

bout the directions

and sink

Upe'

Hpe'

@tiger, by any chance have you

been instructing HG in

the ineffable ways

of the

carriage

return?

(This too

is

Catching)

Infectiously

yours,

n

Joy 


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6290
 
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Why is that? Did you order it?

No. I was just paraphrasing some jingle I heard somewhere.

I am not actually in a state of sigh, or even regret.

Not even dis-appointment ... because we all, deep in our hearts, and the musty corners of our dark little minds, knew exactly what was coming down the tracks.

 


lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 5347
 

Two quick questions for those here that have RTC's book...

  1. On page 23 he reproduces 'a page from Crowley's 1904 Cairo notebook (OS27).' Two problems with it: first, the scan is not of OS27 (although the text it quotes is contained there); secondly, it's not in Crowley's handwriting (it's Yorke's). Anyone know the source? 
  2. The scan from Liber Legis on page 33 is either a Photoshop job equivalent to RTC's 'RSVP' faked scan in Bogus, or, if his 'Solution' has any merit, it's an early photograph of the MSS otherwise unknown to me. Anyone know which?

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3692
 

I'm sure #2 is a scan from the same closely-held private RTC archive where he keeps the Rose Crowley diaries, and the Pirie watermark evidence.

One thing i forgot to include in my review is his amusing backpedaling on the latter:

[In Bogus], I theorized a possibility that Crowley rebacked his manuscript as a means of reducing visibility of a watermark toxic to his Cairo myth. [p. 44].

But evidently the current post-eLGMOR version is that he did the backing with linen to conceal something "scribbled on the reverse" that "he later came to regret and something he took considerable trouble to erase."

This seems like a tacit admission that he never had any evidence at all proving anything at all about any watermarks, and in fact just made the whole thing up.

Or as he has more delicately put it, when he claimed to have hard and incontrovertible proof that the paper used in the AL ms. was not available until 1905, he was merely "theorizing a possibility", you see.

Perhaps his next book will contain a tacit admission he invented the Rose Crowley diaries.

Speaking of "tacit", has anyone else noticed that a frequent blustering poster has fallen strangely silent in the more than 24 hours since i posted my review? We can only hope it is the Fourth Power, and not illness, that has caused this uncharacteristic silence.


Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4204
 
Posted by: @lashtal

secondly, it's not in Crowley's handwriting (it's Yorke's).

I've not got Cole's booklet, so found this quite astounding. Yorke's and Crowley's handwriting - at least, those examples I have seen - are hardly as alike as two peas in a pod, as my mum used to say. To confuse the two seems to take carelessness to unheard-of dimensions.


christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2939
 
Posted by: @michael-staley

To confuse the two seems to take carelessness to unheard-of dimensions.

Or insanity. 


the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
Topic starter  
Posted by: @lashtal

Two quick questions for those here that have RTC's book...

  1. On page 23 he reproduces 'a page from Crowley's 1904 Cairo notebook (OS27).' Two problems with it: first, the scan is not of OS27 (although the text it quotes is contained there); secondly, it's not in Crowley's handwriting (it's Yorke's). Anyone know the source? 
  2. The scan from Liber Legis on page 33 is either a Photoshop job equivalent to RTC's 'RSVP' faked scan in Bogus, or, if his 'Solution' has any merit, it's an early photograph of the MSS otherwise unknown to me. Anyone know which?

@lashtal

1. I have no idea where this is from, although I have it. I sent you a mail

2. I think this is RTC's artistic rendition of what the riddle looked like before AC's meddling.

Love=Law

Lutz


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1862
 

“ I think this is RTC's artistic rendition of what the riddle looked like before AC's meddling. “

More like a shell that hosted a dog did that as a rendition of his vehicle.


RTC
 RTC
(@therealrtc)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 349
 

Fear not my brethren, for the Magicole Hair is amongst you. and must note that the mindset of the majority populating this penultimate bastion of ultra-orthodox Crowleyanity makes the Japanese Zanryū nipponhei appear quite rational.  The lengths to which (perhaps unconsciously) members defend Crowley is utterly beyond belief.  Typical of this was  @the_real_simon_iff  insistence that it was impossible for me to know what glyph an oil can concealed, and label me dumb for suggesting such.  Just a couple of seconds thought would have produced a solution, but Lutz was soooooo rabidly eager to trash both any suggestion of fakery, and me in general, as to completely dismiss other (non-oil-can-concealed) photos.  @ignant666 puked all over it in direct proportion to his anticipation, expectation and psychological need to loathe it.  Now is evoked another fog surrounding alleged confusion over Yorke/Crowley handwriting, where, in fact, there is none.  Even @lashtal is hurling tyres onto the bonfire with a seemingly innocent question which, in reality, is just setting @ignant666, @michael-staley and the usual suspects for another round of oh-so predictable, frenzied gnashing.

There is no point discussing these matters with individuals who demonstrably have absolutely no appetite to establish the truth.  Whilst it is very trendy to wear the ‘open-minded about Crowley’ badge, the reality could not be more different.

Here is a question for the open-minded...

This MS, which came into my possession in July 1906 [...] I am in no way responsible for any of these documents.

Can someone, please, offer a rational explanation for the above, other than the bleedin’ obvious?


Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4204
 
Posted by: @therealrtc

Can someone, please, offer a rational explanation for the above, other than the bleedin’ obvious?

How about responding to some of the points raised in ignant666's review? You really have been caught with your fingers in the till, haven't you? Seeking to pass off something by Yorke as by Crowley is the least of it. Your bad faith is astonishing.


RTC
 RTC
(@therealrtc)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 349
 

@michael-staley - "Seeking to pass off something by Yorke as by Crowley is the least of it" - This is an utterly preposterous suggestion!

I decided to simplify matters greatly, as there is less chance for members to cloud single issues. So, I'll ask again and am particularly interested in your take on this...

This MS, which came into my possession in July 1906 [...] I am in no way responsible for any of these documents.

Can someone, especially @michael-staley, please offer a rational explanation for the above, other than the bleedin’ obvious?


the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
Topic starter  
Posted by: @therealrtc

Lutz was soooooo rabidly eager to trash both any suggestion of fakery, and me in general,

@therealrtc You are wrong. You brought up the stele thing already a few years ago and I always thought that the photo of AC with stele and book etc. is the only pic of the original Crowley copy of the stele. That's why I wondered who would know what's behind the phiol. When you just brought the stele up again (anything to deflect from eLGMOR) I actually checked for the first time this mistery. And look, the reproductions in the Equinox have a typo, so here we go, it was there all the time. That's all and I said so a bit later. Why this would have any meaning beside being maybe a little embarassed about it and hiding it is a mistery to me.

Anyway:

But this thread is about YOUR book and the promises YOU made about it. It is not about the inconsistencies in AC's Cairo accounts (I - and many others - opened many threads about that for years) and what we think about that. You really raise some good points in Bogus, but you give terrible answers. You provide manipulated proof or promise proof that doesn't come and then you announce that the riddle solution will once and for all prove your alternate timeline theory (and sink Crowley's boat). This thread is about THAT claim alone. The day after tomorrow we can close it. But please don't try to suck us in a discussion about the "truth". Or open a new thread. This one is to discuss eLGMOR.

You can answer to that if you like but please don't derail it into "establishing the truth". Especially not while at the same timing bending the truth in ridiculous ways.

Love=Law

Lutz


ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3692
 

Can @therealrtc offer some explanation of why he has claimed for the last several years to have incontrovertible proof that the Pirie watermarks proved AL was not written in 1904, but now admits he has no such proof, other than the bleedin’ obvious?

Can @therealrtc offer some explanation of why his new "cipher solution" depends on fanciful substitution of characters in the cipher to generate a meaningless message, other than the bleedin’ obvious?

Can @therealrtc offer some explanation of why his new "grid page solution" depends on angles calculated from a totally arbitrary 0 degree line to generate meaningless "results", other than the bleedin’ obvious?

Can @therealrtc offer some explanation of why he thinks Ol' Fakey is responsible for the location of the various places in Cairo the GPS coordinates of which encode deep Qabalistic meaning (according to his new book), other than the bleedin’ obvious?


the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
Topic starter  
Posted by: @therealrtc

Can someone, especially @michael-staley, please offer a rational explanation for the above, other than the bleedin’ obvious?

@therealrtc Please stay on topic.


christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2939
 
Posted by: @therealrtc

I decided to simplify matters greatly,

You actually mean 'decided to continue to ignore pertinent questions and keep moving the goal posts' 

 

My copy h'ain't come yet. 


Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4204
 

@therealrtc

It surely can't be difficult for you to rebut the points made by ignant666? Can it?

 


Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4204
 
Posted by: @therealrtc

"Seeking to pass off something by Yorke as by Crowley is the least of it" - This is an utterly preposterous suggestion!

There's nothing preposterous about it, of course. "Young Fakey refers to Crowley as Ol' Fakey shock horror".

You had some goodwill on this website earlier this year. Not from me, of course, but from others who thought you might have something substantial to say.


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6290
 
Posted by: @ignant666

RTC wrote: I theorized a possibility

Okay. This is permitted. "Theorizing," that is. But peddling a theory disguised as a revelation greater than the wheel or fire ... that sounds like it's

Posted by: @michael-staley

To confuse the two seems to take carelessness to unheard-of dimensions.

"Theorization," not carelessness.

"Unheard-of dimensions" will stand until the Fall ... of the next Grand Equinox (~26,000 anis).

Posted by: @christibrany

Or insanity. 

Dr Ignant, the eminent, imminent psychologist, has squelched the rumors of rubber rooms and tight-fitting jackets. So you can knock off the snide derisions.

But Dr Ignant, the reluctant J.D., has established the basis for theorizing, fabricating, and over-promoting in an offensive manner, the sacred images and reputation of the self-verified Saint, Sir Aleister, and his accomplice, Aiwass the Minister. Om. So you can expect to be called as a witness. Maybe a Tribunal member.

Posted by: @tiger

More like a shell that hosted a dog did that as a rendition of his vehicle.

This is the Zen point of view, as projected from the void onto the screen of Tiger's mind. So you (T.'.) can expect to be called as an ubiased witness. Maybe even as a pre-prejudiced Tribunal member.

Posted by: @therealrtc

(perhaps unconsciously) members defend Crowley

I certify that (virtually) all these defendants, including myself who may publish a Treatise on Why Crowley was Bad, happen to think that Crowley was an "asshole" (in persona) who cleaned out the Aegean Stables (again) for us.

It is absolutely factual that each defendant of the false image of Egypt has their own, personal image and interpretation of the Aiwass-Perdurabo phenomenon. I theorize (up front, not after the factual statement) that no defendant of the fakir has his or her vision in exact synchronization with any other defendant of The Cairo Fairy Tail.

But all defendants agree that, despite inconsistencies in the tale told by a known trickster, the movie is worth watching, possibly several times.

A certain exempt category consists of the untouchables, those who hold fast to to the tale as it was presented by the fakir, that Aiwass was a praeterhuman, separate entity, and that they have solved some riddle, making them important in the I's of I-was. Such innocent bystanders may be considered as Fundamentalist Thelemites [Man of Earth series] or Crowleyites [Believer syndrome], and they may be gently herded, along with the Fundamentalist Christians (or any other sect) toward the Colosseum.

Posted by: @therealrtc

oh-so predictable, frenzied gnashing.

Gnash not upon these lines, for the tinkle of laughter can be lightly heard from the aristocrats in the boxes in the front row of the Big Barn (Colosseum).

Posted by: @therealrtc

There is no point discussing these matters with individuals who demonstrably have absolutely no appetite to establish the truth.

Then Please Do Not Feed The Stupid Trolls in the first place.

Posted by: @therealrtc

So, I'll ask again

The defendant, sworn and seated upon The Defendant Throne in the North, continues to answer a question with a question, thus steadfastly avoiding the original question as his defense strengthens..

Whether this is a criminal prosecution (false advertising), a blasphemy trial (bearing false witness against his departed neighbor), or an oral defense for a dissertation (the realignment of history), it is not going well.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

But this thread is about YOUR book

Perhaps you have been day-dreaming. Recent developments in this thread have altered the nature of reality. It is you and your henchmen who are now on trial for crystallized mentality and despicable thoughts. You, The One Who Refuses To Be Fooled, not have the crooked finger of accusation pointed in your direction.

Frater RTC is currently exercising the Ippy Phenomenon of Argument (invented by Frater Sol, 10=1, the egoist). You cannot win, even if you absolutely prove your point(s). Similar exercises can be read in the daiy headlines that pertain to politics.

 

 


ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3692
 

Why won't @therealrtc come out to play?

https://youtu.be/6emWN2tEPMk


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6290
 
Posted by: @ignant666

Why won't @therealrtc come out to play?

Widely spaced, guest appearances, consisting of questions not answers, and accusations of Fixed-Brain Syndrome against non-adherents, have been noted.

Oh, you mean, "Why won't RTC enter the Octagon at Geburah and trade verbal blows, on to one, with "proof" in hand." Than one?

You're an attorney barrister. How about "Intershire Flight to Avoid Persecution?"

 


ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3692
 

Generally, in my experience as a lawyer, and also my experience as a scientist, when you make a controversial/iconoclastic argument, you do so knowing that you are expected to prove, and defend, your claims, by showing evidence, and knowing that your claims may not meet with universal, immediate adulation, and that you may even face some skepticism.

Having hissy fits, especially in public, is not considered good form in either field. Nor is throwing down the gauntlet in a very public manner, and then running and hiding.

Before i was those things, i was a hoodlum. In that field, it is also the case that folks who go around "selling wolf tickets" are held in low esteem.


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6290
 
Posted by: @ignant666

when you make a controversial/iconoclastic argument, you do so knowing that you are expected to prove, and defend, your claims, by showing evidence

Yes, and in academiai, as we all know who have an advanced degree, or maybe just read about it, the exact same criteria apply to what is known as the Anal Oral Defense, which is usually the last step before being proclaimed a Wizard of some degree in some area, on a piece of proof parchment.

Most people make it through, because they know what they are talking about, and they are able to supply "evidence" that backs up, or supports, their position.

Some people actually flunk the oral defense. Pity not the fallen.

Posted by: @ignant666

throwing down the gauntlet in a very public manner, and then running and hiding.

Professional soldiers who squeak ...

Posted by: @ignant666

"selling wolf tickets" are held in low esteem.

Please explain "Wolf Ticket." Too obscure for QBL anal-isis.

 


ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3692
 

A "wolf ticket" is a threat to beat, or kill, a person. One can "put a wolf ticket on" someone by publicly threatening to beat them down on sight.

If a person who has "put a wolf ticket on" someone were to subsequently be seen in a public place with that person, and be seen to fail to immediately attack them, and beat them down, that person would get a rep for "selling wolf tickets".

"Selling wolf tickets", in Standard English, might be translated as "making threats one has no ability to carry out". To "put a wolf ticket on" a person is a perfectly respectable thing; to "sell wolf tickets" is to make oneself an object of contempt and ridicule.

Such a person would also be known as a "bitch-ass punk", or in Standard English, a "notorious coward".

"Punk", in African-American Vernacular English, and thus in NYC street lingo, means both "coward", and "one who takes it up the ass because too weak/cowardly to fight off assailants"; one who takes it from behind voluntarily is referred to by other pejorative terms. This led to many interesting conversations in the early days of punk rock, since the rock'n'roll term comes from the Standard English usage of "punk" to mean "cocky and arrogant teenager".

 


ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3692
 

It is hard to avoid the conclusion that @therealrtc has chosen to follow the wisdom of my first and only goo-roo, my fencing teacher Monsieur Pellicier: "Bettair a live shicken, zan a daid duck!"

Or as he also would put it, "'E who faights, and rrrrruunnns away, leeves to faight anozzer daiy!"

But one does, of course, have to live with the resultant reputational damage if you just won't fight, especially after you are the one who throws down the challenge.

And of course M. Pellicier expected us to always win; the retreats he counseled were only tactical- the key was the "annozzer day" counter-attack. Cowardice was not accepted.


Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1825
 
Posted by: @therealrtc

There is no point discussing these matters with individuals who demonstrably have absolutely no appetite to establish the truth. 

Is this the same thing as your saying "Begone, ye mockers!"?  That "you [such individuals] are not worthy", and you will not cast your pearls before swine?  And if not, do you have anything left to say to them?

Posted by: @shiva

Such innocent bystanders may be considered as Fundamentalist Thelemites [Man of Earth series] or Crowleyites [Believer syndrome], and they may be gently herded

Slightly off the main drag I know, but what's the difference between Fundamentalist Thelemites and Crowleyites?  And would there also be a "Lovers series" or "Hermit series" in the former as well, in your estimation (construction), and if so what distinguishes them (briefly)?

"Gently herded" - as in cattle, sheep, or swine?

N Joy


RTC liked
RTC
 RTC
(@therealrtc)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 349
 

@ignant666 - Your various scenarios tacitly assume a level playing field.  This particular instance is rather more akin to Little Red Riding Hood explaining her heretical hypothesis on veganism to a pack of werewolves, whilst seated in a cauldron.

Since the riddle derives from Liber Legis, I feel it relevant and very much 'on-topic' to ask the most basic of questions...

This MS,which came into my possession in July 1906[...] I am in no way responsible for any of these documents.

Can someone, please, offer a rational explanation for the above, other than the bleedin’ obvious?

@jamiejbarter - Just said it!  From where I stand, their world is not even 3-D, and sepia-toned. Hopefully, the booklet under torture should be available soon.  I'm sure a notice will appear on this site...


threefold31
(@threefold31)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 462
 

Dwtw

 

I look forward to Lutz putting this whole thing to rest.

In some cases it's been a hoot to read the back-and-forth;

many of the members have given me fits of laughter

(and boy do we need that these days!)

But all I can say about Cole is that not only is he a troll,

but something far worse - he's boring!

And to quote Wolfgang Pauli, his theory is so bad, it's "not even wrong".

 

Litlluw

RLG


RTC
 RTC
(@therealrtc)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 349
 

@threefold31 - Yes, I can't wait!... and does someone of your evident qualities care to provide an articulate solution to this fundamental poser?

This MS,which came into my possession in July 1906 [...] I am in no way responsible for any of these documents.


ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3692
 
Posted by: @therealrtc

Your various scenarios tacitly assume a level playing field.  This particular instance is rather more akin to Little Red Riding Hood explaining her heretical hypothesis on veganism to a pack of werewolves, whilst seated in a cauldron.

Umm, no, my lawyer/scientist/hoodlum/fencer analogies "tacitly assume" that folks with big mouths back up their big mouths when called on it. Lawyers and fencers in theory get to expect level playing fields; scientists and hoodlums have no such expectation. But lawyers, scientists, hoodlums, and fencers all often face challenging opponents. The test of good ones is what happens when they do.

You have just as much ability to type words defending your silly book into your internet machine as i do to type words calling it a silly book filled with inane arguments into mine.

You have spent a long time calling us all idiots, a bunch of sheep who believe Ol' Fakey's lies, etc., etc. etc., and saying that you would show us all when eLGMOR was published.

Well, it has been published, and people have read it, and the result from everyone who has read it has been the Big Razzoo.

So stand and defend your idiot claims, or expect to be called a coward, in addition to the idiot you have once again, as so often, provided written, printed evidence that you are.


Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4204
 
Posted by: @ignant666

So stand and defend your idiot claims, or expect to be called a coward, in addition to the idiot you have once again, as so often, provided written, printed evidence that you are.

I think that's a fair summary of how things stand.


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6290
 
Posted by: @ignant666

to "sell wolf tickets" is to make oneself an object of contempt and ridicule.

I see. I thought you were going off-topic, but all roads lead to eLGMOR and its glamor.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

what's the difference between Fundamentalist Thelemites and Crowleyites?

There is no difference. A Fundamentalist Thelemite and a Fundamental Crowleyite are two names for the same person, who may believe in Aiwass, or Crowley, or Both, depending on which phase (guna) they are in.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

"Lovers series" or "Hermit series"

A Lover knows better because he/she has had their own Cairo Epiphany. A Hermit neither knows, nor cares to know, because he/she knows better than to indulge in knowledge. That's as brief as can be done.

Posted by: @therealrtc

I feel it relevant and very much 'on-topic' to ask the most basic of questions...

RTC now answers a question, or charge, with another (same) question (again).

Posted by: @ignant666

the result from everyone who has read it has been the Big Razzoo.

Uh, oh. Now the Judge will want a verdict. It has been proposed that Frater RTC be found guilty of razzing us. Anyone who has read the book, and who feels it has authenticity, merit, or good data, please raise their keyboard and write-up now, or at least in the next day.

 


thearthuremerson
(@thearthuremerson)
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 43
 
Posted by: @therealrtc

This MS,which came into my possession in July 1906 [...] I am in no way responsible for any of these documents.

To hell with it, I'll bite. On Crowley's saying, "[...] I am in now way responsible for any of these documents," we can observe the following, ignoring for the moment your tacit assumption about what he must have meant.

Consider at least one other possibility: that to Crowley the work seemed "inspired" and so not any work of his own. This is, of course, not uncommon to artists. 

Czeslaw Milosz says in the introduction to his New and Collected Poems, "I strongly believe in the passivity of the poet, who receives every poem as a gift from his daimonion or, if you prefer, his Muse. He should be humble enough not to ascribe what is receive to his own virtues."

Nick Cave on his creativity, "My responsibility is to sit on the piano, take a pen and paper, that’s it. The rest is up to God or inspiration. I don’t have any control on what can happen. Someone else does the work, I call Him God. If I didn’t sit on the piano, it would be like denying His voice”.

Hildegard Von Bingen attributed her work to the "voice of the living light" that accompanied her visio, characterized by her as a non-spatial radiance that filled her vision. That voice, she maintained, spoke to her on behalf of God and dictated to her her books and letters. 

There is, then, at least one thing Crowley may have meant by denying his responsibility for the documents other than what you assume.

But let's assume for the moment you are correct, and that Crowley is in that statement truly and explicitly stating that the manuscripts were written by someone else and given to him. Even if that were true, it wouldn't entail the truth of your "deduction". Not by a long shot.

Orthodoxically yours,

æ

 


soz liked
thearthuremerson
(@thearthuremerson)
Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 43
 
Posted by: @threefold31

I look forward to Lutz putting this whole thing to rest.

That's already been done. Not to take the early wind out of Lutz's sails.

@ignant666 Spot on review. Thank you. You've effectively mitigated any need or desire on my part to finish the review I have been working on. The process gave me some thoughts on how to approach much more general work in consideration of possible "solutions" to everyone's favorite "cipher". Perhaps I'll turn to that.


lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 5347
 
Posted by: @thearthuremerson

To hell with it, I'll bite. On Crowley's saying, "[...] I am in now way responsible for any of these documents," we can observe the following, ignoring for the moment your tacit assumption about what he must have meant.

I'd be far more interested in seeing @therealrtc responding to some recent fairly detailed questions addressed directly to him in relation to his claims. This is, after all, supposed to be a conversation rather than a promotional platform.

Specifically:

Posted by: @lashtal

Two quick questions for those here that have RTC's book...

  1. On page 23 he reproduces 'a page from Crowley's 1904 Cairo notebook (OS27).' Two problems with it: first, the scan is not of OS27 (although the text it quotes is contained there); secondly, it's not in Crowley's handwriting (it's Yorke's). Anyone know the source? 
  2. The scan from Liber Legis on page 33 is either a Photoshop job equivalent to RTC's 'RSVP' faked scan in Bogus, or, if his 'Solution' has any merit, it's an early photograph of the MSS otherwise unknown to me. Anyone know which?

And:

Posted by: @ignant666

Can @therealrtc offer some explanation of why he has claimed for the last several years to have incontrovertible proof that the Pirie watermarks proved AL was not written in 1904, but now admits he has no such proof, other than the bleedin’ obvious?

Can @therealrtc offer some explanation of why his new "cipher solution" depends on fanciful substitution of characters in the cipher to generate a meaningless message, other than the bleedin’ obvious?

To which I would add: Whatever happened to Rose's alleged diary, which so far appears to have been a fictional tale from a popular magazine?

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 1825
 
Posted by: @shiva

There is no difference. A Fundamentalist Thelemite and a Fundamental Crowleyite are two names for the same person, who may believe in Aiwass, or Crowley, or Both, depending on which phase (guna) they are in.

You seem to be suggesting that no difference exists between Thelemite-ism (or Thelema) and Crowleyana (or Crowleyanity) although there have been many who while praising Thelema have excoriated Crowleyanity in the past, including Crowley himself

Posted by: @shiva

A Lover knows better because he/she has had their own Cairo Epiphany.

Would this experience be necessary/ essential as criteria in order to have such an achievement though, or in its absence what else (if anything) would suffice as an alternative?

N Joy


azrael2393
(@azrael2393)
Vipereos Mores Non Violabo
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 138
 

Behold!

IMG 3259

 @therealrtc this better be worth my lockdown timeless days...


RTC
 RTC
(@therealrtc)
Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 349
 

@azrael2393 - Therein is a veritable Holy Trinity of unimaginable delights on Earth and, of more practicable value, 3/4 of all you require to successfully circumnavigate the New Aeon.  Thus speaketh the Magicole Hair.

@ignant666 - Photographic proof of my Magicole Hairness.  The halo is coming along nicely and I think that's a bit of self-glittering round the edges... or, as apologists for Crowley may suggest... highly motivated dandruff reflecting swamp gas off Venus..

Magicole Hair

ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3692
 

So, shorn of the purple prose, that would be "I have no very good answer to any of the points you have raised, and prefer to deflect, and try to change the subject", then?


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1862
 

@azrael2393
At this time i am offering a special discount for a limited time
to take the other books in your possession off your hands
their resonance will interfere with your understanding of the horus toy.

Click here to see if you are eligible.


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1862
 
image

RTC liked
lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 5347
 

@therealrtc - Without wishing to offend your sensibilities or risk 'hurling tyres on the fire,' perhaps you would just address the following, simple questions?

  • On page 23 of your book you reproduce 'a page from Crowley's 1904 Cairo notebook (OS27).' The scan is not of OS27 (although the text it quotes is contained there). The scan is not in Crowley's handwriting (it's Yorke's). Why not just quote the text or scan OS27? What is the source of your Yorke document?
  • The 'scan' from Liber Legis on page 33 is either a Photoshop job equivalent to your faked 'RSVP' scan in Liber Bogus, or, if your 'Solution' has any merit, it's an early photograph of the MS otherwise unknown to me. Which is it?
  • Why have you claimed for several years to have incontrovertible proof from the Pirie watermarks that Liber AL was not written in 1904?
  • Why does your 'cipher solution' depend on arbitrary substitution of characters to generate a meaningless message?
  • What happened to your claim to possess Rose's alleged diary, which so far appears to have been a fictional tale reproduced from a popular magazine?

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


hadgigegenraum
(@hadgigegenraum)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 382
 
Posted by: @tiger
image

Nice image, nice aesthetic, so what is it called? Have you named it? How about 'The Governing Dynamics of Thelema' perhaps....


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6290
 
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

You seem to be suggesting that no difference exists between Thelemite-ism (or Thelema) and Crowleyana (or Crowleyanity)

You seem to be nit-picking about an off-topic topic. I said, "or Both," implying that there is/was/were a CHOICE OF TWO DIFFERENT BUT SIMILAR things. Now, we really need to be watching the RTC Heresy Trial. It's getting down to where the screws are being tightened in order to squeeze out the tooth truth fairy.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Would this experience be necessary/ essential as criteria in order to have such an achievement though, or in its absence what else (if anything) would suffice as an alternative?

Please stop bothering me. I am watching the trial. There WILL be a crisis event connected with 5=6 Outer shifting to 5=6 Inner. It is called an imprint. It can take many forms. Now, Shhh!

Posted by: @therealrtc

Therein is a veritable Holy Trinity of unimaginable delights on Earth and, of more practicable value, 3/4 of all you require to successfully circumnavigate the New Aeon.  Thus speaketh the Magicole Hair.

[Addressing the High and Holy Presiding Tribunalist (the Judge, Aiwass, Atma, whatever his name) with a motion] ...

Your Providence, I move that the defendant
be rendered for psychiatric testin'
before tightening any more screws

... there is this sickly-sweet goo running out
and it smells like old dirty tennis shoes

 


Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1862
 

Have you named it?

not quite but..perhaps..

The forms of a cur, and of providence; by the mind stream of appearances .


the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 1955
Topic starter  

@therealrtc Just one more day... wanna answer some of those questions before nobody ever finds a reason to visit this thread again?


Page 6 / 10
Share: