I will admit that another of the secrets is to not make a distinction between magick and "life"
Oh I don't know. I'm OK making the distinction. I don't personally feel every aspect of life is "magick." I don't consider the next shit I take to be magical. To otherwise work it out such that I equate all action with magick seems to diminish the idea if only by putting it on par with every other religion.
A review was offered a while ago [time passes] and this thread is the result of that review with other reviewers chirping in now.
I offered it, last week.
most reviewers merely offer a perusal over-review, possibly because they are still scratching their heads.
Because the book is a collection of thoughts, often bordering on stream of consciousness, lacking the sort of structure that makes it easily approachable, let alone reviewable.
Oh I don't know. I'm OK making the distinction. I don't personally feel every aspect of life is "magick." I don't consider the next shit I take to be magical. To otherwise work it out such that I equate all action with magick seems to diminish the idea if only by putting it on par with every other religion.
I didn't mean it that way, more like channeling as much of your life as you can in to feeding your practice. It can be as simple as using time spent waiting for something for contemplation, meditation, doing some pranayama or energy circulation, charging an otherwise mundane task with an intention, trance dancing at a party, putting a post-it with a sigil on it somewhere in your home or workplace, or things like that.
Posted by: @damien
Didn't this book just come out?
Maybe i should have said more than several books ago.
It feels like over a year.
which seems like ages ago or a temporary moment ago.
My books and accoutrements are packed away perhaps until the landlord fixes up the apt;
when they come back out i might have a look and post a review.
From recollection;
it seemed like it was written for penises,
with a christian bent on fornication.
Posted by @shiva
... perhaps until the fall of The Great Equinox.
... perhaps never .
It could be on going...
Posted by @shiva
Since it only "seemed" like that, you will not be arrested.
Yeah.
Well you know, the words are a falsehood clause.
There may seem to be doctrinal differences in concepts;
or different branches of the same tree.
It can all fall under "know thyself" and "refine thy rapture".
Any way i hid the red and black trickster with his guava jelly stick and word play,
underneath the statue of the virgin mary's skirt.
So everything appears to be sanctioned now.
"Catolico a mi manera" Catholic in my own way.
🙂
There may seem to be doctrinal differences in concepts
This is the Prominence of confusion (mentioned here and there).
i hid the red and black trickster with his guava jelly stick and word play,
underneath the statue of the virgin mary's skirt.
You will be okay as long as you do not accept any money or favors for this act.
everything appears to be sanctioned now.
Whew! That was a close one.
it seemed like it was written for penises,
with a christian bent on fornication.
It seems the Christian bent is becoming a dominant theme. A theme that was always there and deliberately hidden.
When I was a very young person there was a higher up who took the time to write to me (on paper no less!) and help me navigate through it all. He often insisted on the similarities between Thelema and Christianity and hinted on how much these similarities increase the higher up the initiatory tree you climb. How correct he was.
The O.T.O is christian.
I practice Thelema my own way.
I think we all practise Thelema in our own way.
I would though be interested to hear more from you on what you see as the Christianity of the O.T.O., since it's not something that's apparent to me.
@tiger There is such a thing as Christain Mysticism. The Cloud of unknowing by Meister Eckart is an interesting read. The Russian writer, philosopher, mystic Leo Tolstoy is another modern Christain mystic. No one school of thought has cornered the market on "cosmic revelation".
The O.T.O is christian.
[Therion's vehicle's ashes become agitated and initiate a rotary motion]
This misconception results from two duhs ...
Duh 1 - AC's primary primal preconscious programming was imprinted, with fervor, in a strict Christian format.
Duh 2 - Baphomet wrote a bunch of secret, hi-level docs under scrutiny of Reuss, a die-hard Masonic Christian Fundamentalist who declared that every official OTO doc start with the anagram "INRI." ... So Bapho-Crowley issued a few INRI docs, filled with gushy Christian terminology
I practice Thelema my own way.
A sound decision. All these pre-selected and pre-pared systems involve a lot of dog-ma, while Thelema itself says, "There is NO LAW beyond Do what thou wilt.
So why are these pundits and their systems laying down the dogmatic Law ?
@michael-staley
That's something i read in one or more of J. Edward Cornelius works.
Who got pretty high up in the ranks.
i too don't see any christianity apparent in Thelema.
I don't think A.C. hid chistianity in his works; on the contrary i think he made efforts to remove it.
christians are always good at seeing what they want to see;
and assume that the One True God Creator is yaldaboath and don't realize that the Serpent in the garden of Eden was the Savior.
Maybe closer to the point i should have said i'm Thelemic with no need for jesus.
i'm Thelemic with no need for jesus.
Uh, huh! A heretic for sure, How long have you been walking the razor's edge of the wild side?
christians are always good at seeing what they want to see;
and assume that the One True God Creator is yaldaboath and don't realize that the Serpent in the garden of Eden was the Savior.
Well everyone sees what they want to see, Robert Anton Wilson called it "what the thinker thinks, the prover proves".... and the Serpent Savior Messiah iswas what Crowley's claimed to be, and could prove it, as he tried to impress upon Rabbi Joel Blau in AC's 'Open Letter to Rabbi Joel Blau', as to how the Jews could fulfill their mission by acceptance of Thelema!
And in consideration of the phallocentric concerns of J.Edward C's latest opus...the relevant question is- Where are the knights of the OTO as regards: "the abrogation of circumcision"?
"darkness is due to our being in the shadow of the earth" pg147
"the Word of our Law which i now proclaim, formulates an ethical principle by the acceptance of which every man and every woman, of whatever race, may become Sole Arbiter of his or her own destiny." pg 148
"purged of all tribal jargon" pg153
"the earth affords infinite scope for each soul, as the sky affords space for each star. but instead of each soul seeking the satisfaction proper to itself, it is persuaded by the popular press, by the pressure of public opinion, and by contagious delusion" pgs154 155
"Shiloh 358 the Serpent shall come, and his name shall be called Anti-Christ, even as i whom am already arisen, am called the Beast and my number is the number of man, six hundred and three score and six." pg151
"the anti christ will make possible the coming of christ." pg 153
( Though i consider the Anti-christ as a (Shivadarshan-Antichrist) to (Atmadarshan-chist) )
"destruction of the delusion and craving in the faith of ones own fetishes and the personification of Freudian phantasms
and monsters bred of the shame of being different and unthinking flock." notes from pieces around pg 134
from the Revival of Magick and Other Essays
Thanks @hadgigegenraum
@shiva
Ever since i left the world ghetto with its typical, games and entertainment.
"... even as i whom am already arisen, am called the Beast and my number is the number of man ..."
Dis-stink-shun: Perhaps I am wrong and you may rend my image, and maybe the third- or fourth-hand quote lost a letter, and potentially it might note matter at all - - - - - butt .....
18 Here is wisdom.
Let him that hath understanding
count the number of the beast:
for it is the number of a man;
and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
King Jim's Version
So a question might arise in connection with 666 being humanity or just one guy.
Personally, I hope the King J version is correct and it's just one guy named Edward Aleister Alexander ... because I am not, and never have been, in the market for three sixes. I, like you and those other folks, have my own number and my own bizarre tale to spin.
@shiva Emperor Nero was the BEAST 666, he has come and gone.
Nero was the BEAST 666, he has come and gone.
1. Prove that, please.
2. If true, then AC was the second beast, eh?
1. Prove that, please.
There's been a good deal of scholarly work that supports the idea of Nero as 666. Here's one such link:
https://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/gladiators/nero.html
2. If true, then AC was the second beast, eh?
You have to grant the premise that AC was any beast at all beyond and outside of his own imagination.
And this without getting into the idea (and arguable fact) that the Beast of Revelations number is 616, NOT 666.
You have to grant the premise that AC was any beast at all beyond and outside of his own imagination.
Granted.
Granted
YOU grant it. But if the back-stop to every discussion is that if Crowley said it it must be true, then there's dumb.
Thanks regarding the quotes from AC's "Open Letter to Rabbi Joel Blau", to which it is nice to note someone else who appreciates what frankly is quite brilliant, a potent declaration of Thelema, demonstrating in what is an ever sore context, his fulfilling his duties in attempting to bring the glad tidings of the Law to all of humanity.
I find your comment-
"( Though i consider the Anti-christ as a (Shivadarshan-Antichrist) to (Atmadarshan-chist)" to make some interesting pondering to the quote of AC's "the anti christ will make possible the coming of christ." from that Open Letter.
1. Prove that, please.
It is really difficult to "prove" a theological premise. All that I know is that in certain Christain Eschatological schools of thought the Great Beast was either Babylon (Crowley's favorite word sic Babalon) or Nero Germanicus. Rather than me regurgitating the background of this, I would as Damaen suggest look up his reference, and read the Wikipedia article on The Number of the Beast. I know Wikipedia is NOT a primary source, but for our purposes, it will do. The Revelations of St. John is to me an example of prophetic writing reminiscent of Isaiah. "Prophecy" in this context does NOT
2. If true, then AC was the second beast, eh? Crowley will have to wait in line with the likes of Napoleon Boneparte, Kaiser Wilhelm II, Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler, and Groucho Marx.
mean "predicting the future" rather it is taking what is known and pushing it to logical extremes, much like Science Fiction writing.
The pre-christian Illuminates; as well as the contemporary Illuminates during the advent when god decided to change his mind after millenniums;
who extolled the serpent and preferred it to Christ;
initiated a current, concealed in veils to protect the purblind and those not ready to cut through illusion; from blindness.
When The Serapeum was destroyed and Hypatia was dragged her through the streets of Alexandria, stripped naked and murdered in 415 AD by those that had accepted jesus; it became clear that the current should go underground.
Certain assemblies; derivatives of the Alexandrian Hermetic Gnostic schools, Mystical Neoplatonic, Stregheria, practitioners of Ifa, learned to conceal or cloak in christian guise their esoteric wisdom.
The Templars, influenced by teachings on the true nature were burned at the stake for rejecting the divinity of jesus. (like muslim scholars who categorically deny the divinity of jesus). Instead of jesus The Templars communed with the generative powers of the magic light of the universal balance, the equilibrium of opposites, The flame of intelligence shining from between the horns of Baphomet. The Current and the Flame still lights and consumes beyond the aspects of a self in linear time.
It is really difficult to "prove" a theological premise.
No Shinola there.
... pushing it to logical extremes, much like Science Fiction writing.
Right. I will make a prediction - Nobody will ever prove anything in this arena - at least not with numbers. The real proof will be forthcoming when you (any one of us) is confronted with ...
he had the mark -
the name of the beast
or the number of its name."
Yeah. The first time you (we) go to buy food and the robot clerk says, "We no longer accept cash. Please display your digital microchip ... or get out of the store."
it became clear that the current should go underground.
You cite the beginning of the current obligation of secrecy that is found in all the mundane Orders of Antiquity.
Of course, today, people can't wait to tell their sposes about the secret rites, and some will go rogue and write books about the terrible secrets that are various spellings of old Words and attitudes toward reproductive apparati.
... learned to conceal or cloak in christian guise their esoteric wisdom.
And we end up with high-ranking "secrets" writ by Baphomet in terms that appear to be Sunday School lessons.
From what I can glean, the book that holds up this thread seems to continue this age-old tradition of duplicity.
Not duplexity.
The Templars, influenced by teachings on the true nature were burned at the stake for rejecting the divinity of jesus.
Cutting through the BS, we find that the Templars, the origin of our modern banking system, held the paper on the rather large loans extended to The King of France (the antagonist of the tale).
The King couldn't pay his bills - so he went to the Pope and said, "Let's take these upstart bankers down, and we can then get all their gold and silver."
Using religious accusations, the King and the Pope moved in, killed the heretics, stole the money (a lot of gold and Templars escaped to England, Scotland, and (especially) Switzerland, where the new banking system was (re)established.
The King and the Pope both died within a year, as verbally summoned by Jack DeMolay from his pyre.
You are right as rain Shiva, "Show me the Money" cried the King of France, "Show me the money" cried the Pope. There is not, and never was a deity named "Baphomet" Satanism, Witchcraft, they are the inventions of the Christain clergy. By the way, I don't think Nero burned the city of Rome, it was some apocalyptic Christain who said," The hell with the second coming, "Let's get this party started!"Cutting through the BS, we find that the Templars, the origin of our modern banking system, held the paper on the rather large loans extended to The King of France (the antagonist of the tale).
Yeah. The first time you (we) go to buy food and the robot clerk says, "We no longer accept cash. Please display your digital microchip ... or get out of the store."
Cash? Who uses cash anymore? Paper money is just something we agree has value. I don't know anything about "Crypto currency", so I'll leave that alone.
I don't think Nero burned the city of Rome
I never heard that he did (such a thing).
I did hear that he fiddled while Rome burned.
This could mean (multiple choice):
1. He was non-attached (a virtue).
2. He was a QBL-guy who made unauthorized substitutions.
3. He was crazy.
Who uses cash anymore?
I am an old-fashioned sort of antiquity. The medical dispensary adds a fee if you pay by card. Since I am opposed to the Borge, I now go (ever so slightly) out of my way to use cash when convenient or when it's the easy thing to do.
Paper money is just something we agree has value.
Yes. Of course. When I was a kid, we had "Silver Certificates" which were paper, but backed by gold. Then they changed them to read "Federal Reserve Note." That was the beginning of the end.
Actually, that "beginning" lies in "Gold Certificates." They were before my time. I saw one or two (collector's items), but there were none in circulation.
I don't know anything about "Crypto currency"
You can read all about it in The Daily Bad News. Crypto, that supposedly has hard asset backing, but rarely does because the administrators lie about the assets. So it's a ponzi scheme. It has been breaking down for 2 or 3 weeks. Bankruptcies, fleing felons, domino effect. Crypto was created by Baphomet The Devil.
The new digital currencies, backed as solidly as the falling dominoes (where is dom, animway?), is a form of cryoto [blockchain - which I do not know or gno, yet, is being installed by The New World Order for its clinical economic trial in ... Nigeria.
Posted by: @toadstoolwe
...inventions of the Christain clergy.
and what of
Giordano Bruno,
Joan of Arc,
acting upon visions demonic,
holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith ?
Are you able to touch the dead ?
Do you not know people who have contact with the real world ?;
who have direct access to it and attuned to it?
Most these days get their meat in the market;
with an exchange they believe is worth of value.
They don't even get to contact the living being before they kill it.
Beyond the undead zombies,
away from the fetish of quotas and profit margins;
and identities prostituted to the office role;
there is a garden;
just sit,
stop the analytical mind,
overcome the chatter,
go beyond the dogma of the consensus world view.
Beyond there is another entity,
something greater.
We will sing mornfull songs
that speak of your loss,
as you face your death.
Then we will cook you,
so that the spirits can pick you apart
and consume you.
Step outside of the the narrow perspective,
of the political and institutionalized indoctrination channel.
If you can't see,
maybe you can feel,
the unseen influence,
from deep within the chthonic underworld.
Tap in.
From the crust;
of herded, conditioned, indoctrinated, perspectives;
the skin breaks
and new snake goes forth
at the foot of
the Potomitan.
@tiger I hear you man! You are a pretty good poet, and I got the message. But I've been there, done that as I sit at the trunk of the Yggdrasil tree, and the serpent Jurmungar speaks words of love to me. Have I died a thousand deaths just to be here? Earth bound?
@shiva I agree with you, cold hard cash is better, but try ordering anything online with cash. It's not happening. I use a debit card (La-De-Da for me, right?)
As for Emperor Nero, he just needed a hug.
@tiger You're welcome. Among his many other talents, Crowley was an awesome poet (In my opinion) Some of his verse is sublime having nothing to do with occultism or magic(k) Just a man with the soul of a poet observing the world around him. Not that I am any judge of poetry, I like your stuff. Keep up the good work! I would be interested in reading more of your work.
@tiger I like your alter regalia. What does the spider represent? I get it! You are into Hoodoo, or vodun. Do you worship Baron Samaehdi?
I would be interested in reading more of your work.
His work is dangerous.
You may lose your mind.
If that doesn't matter (why should it?), then go ahead. His veracity is enshrined in the fact that he does not require dues up front.
So, I might lose my mind for free? What is so dangerous about reading Tiger's poetry? He might not even accommodate me with his verse. I am currently reading a classic (I think) Israel Regardie's The Tree of Life. What is your opinion of it?
Looks like we are quite a bit off the topic, which is typical around here, and not necessarily a bad thing, but it would be nice to bring comments back to the subject...i.e. Jerry Edward Cornelius's book purporting to share the sex magic secrets of one Edward Alexander Crowley.
Looks like we are quite a bit off the topic
The understatement of the new year!
This is a thread about Jerry C.'.'s book that reveals sex secrets. It has been determined that no secrets are revealed. That marked the end of the thread, and the congregation departed.
As is often the case, some parishioners hang around, discussing their kids, diets, and diseases.
Of course this is off-topic. It is what happens when a thread dies due to Nothing more to be added, nothing more to say on the original topic.
I would personally be em-bare-assed if I published a book that pretended to reveal secrets that do not exist - whether they were my secrets or Aleister's.
Richard the Cole-miner's dotter does the same thing. I am working on a new rulw, to be bribed into Law, whereby the Author of texts that fail to deliver will be required to refund the purchase price of the book to the buyer, including tax-shipping-handling-disposal fees, plus a Penalty of a currently unspecified amount not to be less than 5 credits nor more than 111 credits - foe each claim of revelation that fails to be revealed.
This will be called The Liars' Tax and Punishment Program (TLT et PP).
Can you provide evidence that J.E.C. does not reveal any...quote unquote..."Secrets" in said book...?
I do like the proposal by the way! ...The "Liars' Tax and Punishment Program (TLT et PP)." !!
@shiva Having spent the last couple of decades buying and selling occult books, I have seen my share of books about, and by Aleister Crowley. I hoestly think that are only three books about Croley, not written by Crowley that are worth a darn, The Great Beast, Symonds & Grant, The Confessions of Aleister Crowley, and the Eye of the Triangle, by Israel Regardie. All the other books are recycled, regurgitated garbage. If you really want to know Aleister Crowley, then read HIS books. God knows he wrote enough books, articles, essays, and even a screen play for a movie (A little known fact, but true) He has written enough books, to fill two libraries. I have an idea for a book also, its entitled: The Art and Science of Beating a Dead Horse: The Current Literature about Aleister Crowley.
I hoestly think that are only three books about Croley, not written by Crowley that are worth a darn, The Great Beast, Symonds & Grant, The Confessions of Aleister Crowley, and the Eye of the Triangle, by Israel Regardie.
Well, then, from the three written not by Crowley, one is written by him, and two by people who did not exactly like him, which is not bad per se, but they got many things wrong, although they were well written. I for one am glad that Crowley gets the attention of real academia (menaing they use original Crowley material and don't speculate too much), of course there are better and worse books about him. I don't think one should trust AC alone when it comes to AC. Also the Conefessions end at Cefalu.
P.S. Sorry for getting even off-topicer
I hoestly think that are only three books about Croley, not written by Crowley that are worth a darn, The Great Beast, Symonds & Grant, The Confessions of Aleister Crowley, and the Eye of the Triangle, by Israel Regardie.
Well, then, from the three written not by Crowley, one is written by him, and two by people who did not exactly like him, which is not bad per se, but they got many things wrong, although they were well written. I for one am glad that Crowley gets the attention of real academia (menaing they use original Crowley material and don't speculate too much), of course there are better and worse books about him. I don't think one should trust AC alone when it comes to AC. Also the Conefessions end at Cefalu.
P.S. Sorry for getting even off-topicer
i could go on
and on
about ON
and the secret
of ON
with hints
of mysteries
within ON
but Jerry has already
done so
so why don't you
read on
sorry i couldn't help my self.
ok.
so you would like to know the secret of mingling the blood of the red lion and the gluten of the white eagle ?
the secret of the stone of the wise, the production of the phoenixlike elixir and the universal victual;
the lost word and the secret behind the OneTrueGod mentioned in every initiation within of the O.T.O.;
the distorted confused name of Jah Bull On used as the temporary substitute;
The nature of John Dee and Madimi's open gown and exposed breasts;
The mysteries of the Book of the Unveiling of the Sangraal wherein it is spoken of the Wine of the Sabbath of The Adepts
Being the Secret Instruction of the Ninth Degree;
the ZRO seed of Liber Li;
the rigidity of of the support for Saladin's tent;
the sexual formula of the Minerval word-ON through out the pages of in Liber Aleph
to find the key webbed in the initiation rituals of The Most Holy, Most Illustrious, Most Illuminated and Most Puissant Baphomet; to unlock the Bottomless Pit
?
" here is wisdom. let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of man: his number 666
find the key webbed in his initiation rituals to unlock the Abyss pg253
the hidden penis voice in the garden whispered to eve "you can eat of the forbidden fruit for it will not harm you " and when she saw that the tree was tip top stupendous and desiring to be experienced, she took the fruit thereof to ingest while adam slept. pg263
freedom is being handed to you in the name of Abaddon pg254
to fully regain the word you must work the two sephiroth of chesed4 and geburah 5
these two sephiroth along with tiphareth-6 will form the descending red triangle-this symbol which was given to the candidate during their II degree initiation into the oto pg182
that which lies within semen is the secret which according to Crowley is HAD the holy ghost pg202
mans ability to produce a certain secretion to spawn genius you don't need a partner on equal footing pg23
man is the guardian of life and woman but a temporary expedient pg52
Reuss love for bisexual Wagner where he learned of the sexual secrets weaved into his work pg98
the secret revealed might come with a shitload of consequences from people incapable of handling it and label it as homosexuality or perversion. pg56
in the prince of jerusalem degree, the temple is utterly destroyed, and the ritual ends with these words- nothing now remains. there is no formal closing; all has been destroyed pg 250 "
here are some notes with a slight rewording to show you a little of what i got out of the well read and former O.T.O. member who achieved a high rank under Grady and is the heir to the Grady's AA
from his book
The Secret Sexual Teachings of Aleister Crowley by J. Edward Cornelius
@the_real_simon_iff You are not "off-topic" because the topic is dead. Personally, I think the "academic studies" of Aleister Crowley are also recycled crap. They will take up pages just repeating the same biographical information that we already know and insert some psychobabble about Crowley's supposed mysonogony" or whatever stupid personal agenda they may hold in order to get their M.A.s of PHDs. You note that Symonds, Grant, Regardie, and even Crowley got things wrong. I would love to know what you are rereferring too.