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Thelemic City or Nation and Vatican, Tibet, Israel, Utah, etc.: Why and How  

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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
07/12/2013 11:44 am  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Firstly, I, the thread starter, wants us to discuss about the probabilities of an establishment of a Thelemic City or Country, similar to what Vatican is to Catholics, Tibet is for Tibetan Buddhists, Israel is for Jews, both the race and the religion, and The State of Utah and Salt Lake City is for Mormons.

To start, let's bring up the "why", I ask you to look at The Book of The Law, The Book tells us that we are "kinsfolk" with "the lords of the earth", that we "shall exceed the nations of the earth in splendour & pride; but always in the love of" Nuit. Let us continue onward to some conclusions:

  1. We are nobles and royalties of the earth.
  2. We shall be admired and respected.

As a member of the earth's royal family, we should have the freedom to our own estate, it does not matter where, when, or how to have it, for The Book of The Law points us about it in Chapter 3, "Choose ye an island! Fortify it! Dung it about with enginery of war! I will give you a war-engine. With it ye shall smite the peoples; and none shall stand before you. Lurk! Withdraw! Upon them! this is the Law of the Battle of Conquest: thus shall my worship be about my secret house." verses. Further, in The New Comment, Crowley explained that "the first nation to accept the Law of Thelema Shall, by My counsel, become sole Mistress of the World."

So, there are enough justifications as to why a nation shall be established with the Law of Thelema as its principle. There is no reason not to make one, either.

Consider what can be achieved if we could make such a nation. Consider also the constraints as to the establishment of that very nation. That is also what we shall discuss.

Now, I would like us to discuss the "how to establish" and "where to establish" issues.

In my opinion, one of the easiest way is to do it somewhat like the Jews, settling on a territory en masse, and, by an agreement or a treaty, declare, upon public consensus, based on referendum, that the intended nation be established.

Of course, there are more violent ways, like what rebels, or mercenaries, or pirates, did. To do so, however, would be against The Law. But even so, there should be instances as to why a war of self defense is rightfully justified, as there might be people or parties interfering with our rights to build one such country.

To secure against this, we need some presence in the international community to gain support and sympathy, as well as physical power to defend our sovereignty, this means either we train our own scientists and have them build protective weaponries, and/or we train ourselves as soldiers do, a daily training regimen to our physical bodies.

We also need to finance ourselves for this effort. It would be a shame if we cannot find the much needed money to allocate on resources as we see fit.

As for the location, unfortunately, only The Antarctics are beyond occupation, all lands on the earth are occupied by some kind of power or another. Solutions to this might include what I asked earlier about relocating to a territory permanently, build up a people with same views, and declare such establishment. Another one I can think of is to build an island somewhere outside the range of naval border of any existing countries.

That is all of what I have in my thought. With all that said, I conclude this thread starter.

Love is the law, love under will.


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arthuremerson
(@arthuremerson)
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07/12/2013 6:55 pm  
"doyour93" wrote:
There is no reason not to make one, either.

Well that's it then, is it? Consider me unconvinced.


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Hamal
(@hamal)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 547
07/12/2013 7:46 pm  

I say invade the Vatican. According to Wikipedia there are only 840 residents, so we could take em easy. Plus we can ride scooters and say "Chow 93!" a lot. Also I understand technically due to some hokery pockery in Utrecht the OTO already has Bishops of Rome.

😀
93
Hamal


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2199
07/12/2013 7:50 pm  

Molto bene. I like Hamal's idea  .  How about we get really sneaky and all get into the seminary and become covert 'catholic' double agents. Then in a few years the city will be ours through silent usurpation. lol oh my.... 🙂

ciao 93-uh


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Hamal
(@hamal)
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07/12/2013 8:05 pm  

I'm picturing it now, Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries plays as hundreds of Thelemites on stylish Italian scooters encircle the Vatican!

Chow 93!
8)
Hamal


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Posts: 2199
07/12/2013 8:30 pm  

😎
cakes of light stands next to the italian ice ones 🙂


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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07/12/2013 11:11 pm  

On a little bit more of a serious note,* it should be noted that considerable effort has been expended just to get Thelemites behind an effort to Save The Abbey of Thelema. Well, there were problems with the super-high price, and an apparently disinterested, non-upkeeping, greedish landlord, and some legal problems, plus hexes and gestures to ward off the evil eye from the neighbors - and so the whole thing (the project) seems to collapsed along with the roof (and soon the walls?).

Bearing this in mind, we now have a proposal on the table to establish our own nation-state  😮

Good luck and fare thee well!  ::)

*It's not that the Vatican's semi-hostile takeover is not serious ... it's those Swiss guards who have to be watched. Unless we consider that Switzerland was (supposedly) founded by Templar remnants with all their treasure - leading to the origin of Swiss/Templar banking. In that case, they (the guards) might be able to help, not hinder, assuming they're Thelemic Templars and not Swiss OTO Templars who have shunned AC and the Thelemites.

Also note: Tibet has been annexed by godless China and isn't the home of anything important anymore, except in memory and tradition. Israel is essentially run by sabras, who are Jewish, yes, but not Orthodox. I've heard they make fun of the Orthodox folks. So Israel is not really the homeland of the ancient Hebrew lineage, but rather the adopted homeland of Ashkenazi Jews from Europe (and lineage-wise, from Khazaria). Utah is, in fact, the home-center of Mormonism, but when I was there in 1969, the TV news was telling about how organized crime had snuck into Salt Lake City.

The moral (yama-niyama) of these observations is that Nation-States, which have been suggested as models upon which to base Thelemaland, have themselves already been infiltrated by elements that are not consistent with the original ideology.

There have been discussions about whether Thelema is a religion. Now we must ask ... is it a political party ... or has someone been too much into the wine and strange drugs?

[/align:1wmmdwky]


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ptoner
(@ptoner)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2077
08/12/2013 12:09 am  

I think,  that island, could be Ireland. A land Crowley, never came too, yet had so much reverence.

A land, that has always been in turmoil, yet the people, always steadfast.  Wanting a sovereignty, that can be accountable.

Ramblings of an Irish man.

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Joined: 11 years ago
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08/12/2013 2:29 am  

My Irish and non Irish genetic material all say hear hear Paul 🙂
I like what you and Davy et al are doing with the Irish Order of Thelema.
Ireland also seems a good place to start a Thelemic commune due to land prices in the country side like Donegal compared to the States for example.
Ramblings of a Plutonian Alien.


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Hamal
(@hamal)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 547
08/12/2013 3:44 am  

Dammit brothers and sisters!

I was good to go!

It's taken ages to load all this ammunition, firearms and high explosives into the vehicles.

Now do I unload it all or…. sod it! just invade somewhere! Seems a waste otherwise!

:-
93
Hamal


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
08/12/2013 5:30 am  
"Hamal" wrote:
I say invade the Vatican. According to Wikipedia there are only 840 residents, so we could take em easy. Plus we can ride scooters and say "Chow 93!" a lot. Also I understand technically due to some hokery pockery in Utrecht the OTO already has Bishops of Rome.
"christibrany" wrote:
Molto bene. I like Hamal's idea  .  How about we get really sneaky and all get into the seminary and become covert 'catholic' double agents. Then in a few years the city will be ours through silent usurpation. lol oh my.... 🙂
"Hamal" wrote:
I'm picturing it now, Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries plays as hundreds of Thelemites on stylish Italian scooters encircle the Vatican!
"christibrany" wrote:
😎
cakes of light stands next to the italian ice ones 🙂

OTO in Rome? I just knew about this. Can they help on that plan? 😛
As for scooters, maybe we could make it a routine. ;D

"Shiva" wrote:
On a little bit more of a serious note,* it should be noted that considerable effort has been expended just to get Thelemites behind an effort to Save The Abbey of Thelema. Well, there were problems with the super-high price, and an apparently disinterested, non-upkeeping, greedish landlord, and some legal problems, plus hexes and gestures to ward off the evil eye from the neighbors - and so the whole thing (the project) seems to collapsed along with the roof (and soon the walls?).

Hey, Cefalu, why I do not think about it before? We should save it, and build on it to be the Capital, but then again, there are other options...

"Shiva" wrote:
Bearing this in mind, we now have a proposal on the table to establish our own nation-state  😮

Good luck and fare thee well!  ::)

Well, you could give a hand, if you ever feel like that.

"Shiva" wrote:
*It's not that the Vatican's semi-hostile takeover is not serious ... it's those Swiss guards who have to be watched. Unless we consider that Switzerland was (supposedly) founded by Templar remnants with all their treasure - leading to the origin of Swiss/Templar banking. In that case, they (the guards) might be able to help, not hinder, assuming they're Thelemic Templars and not Swiss OTO Templars who have shunned AC and the Thelemites.

Also note: Tibet has been annexed by godless China and isn't the home of anything important anymore, except in memory and tradition. Israel is essentially run by sabras, who are Jewish, yes, but not Orthodox. I've heard they make fun of the Orthodox folks. So Israel is not really the homeland of the ancient Hebrew lineage, but rather the adopted homeland of Ashkenazi Jews from Europe (and lineage-wise, from Khazaria). Utah is, in fact, the home-center of Mormonism, but when I was there in 1969, the TV news was telling about how organized crime had snuck into Salt Lake City.

We don't always have to take over existing space, we can just build an island, like what the Japanese did with their airports.

"Shiva" wrote:
The moral (yama-niyama) of these observations is that Nation-States, which have been suggested as models upon which to base Thelemaland, have themselves already been infiltrated by elements that are not consistent with the original ideology.

I have been thinking, that, first and foremost, a governor is the servant of the people they serve, and not the other way around, hence, the need to build a new establishment.

"Shiva" wrote:
There have been discussions about whether Thelema is a religion. Now we must ask ... is it a political party ... or has someone been too much into the wine and strange drugs?

I, for one, had been taking hemp on a daily basis.  ::)

"ptoner" wrote:
I think,  that island, could be Ireland. A land Crowley, never came too, yet had so much reverence.

A land, that has always been in turmoil, yet the people, always steadfast.  Wanting a sovereignty, that can be accountable.

Ramblings of an Irish man.

"christibrany" wrote:
My Irish and non Irish genetic material all say hear hear Paul 🙂
I like what you and Davy et al are doing with the Irish Order of Thelema.
Ireland also seems a good place to start a Thelemic commune due to land prices in the country side like Donegal compared to the States for example.
Ramblings of a Plutonian Alien.

One could use that plan, too. Settling on Ireland en masse, people? Never been to Ireland personally, though.

"Hamal" wrote:
Dammit brothers and sisters!

I was good to go!

It's taken ages to load all this ammunition, firearms and high explosives into the vehicles.

Now do I unload it all or…. sod it! just invade somewhere! Seems a waste otherwise!

Whoa brother, you can hunt big games with that, preferably a big, vicious, hungry, and fast-moving thing.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
08/12/2013 8:56 pm  

Ireland Uber Alles  ;D


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Hamal
(@hamal)
Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 547
08/12/2013 9:28 pm  

It would be quite ironic if we rolled into Ireland, a country that has suffered such violence between two Christian factions and announced they were both wrong and it was time to make way for the New Aeon!

93
Hamal


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2199
09/12/2013 12:21 am  

Lol davy nice one mate.
missed you since i left the 'face' 🙂 93s


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steve_wilson
(@steve_wilson)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 155
09/12/2013 4:44 am  

Year 1 - Thelemic state established
Year 2 - The first Thelemic civil war ends with United Nations-imposed peace process.
Year 3 - Peace process sabotaged by bomb attack from Provisional OTO.
Year 4 - Provisional OTO join peace process.
Year 5 - Peace process sabotaged by bomb attack from Real OTO aka 93 counties

Yep, Ireland sounds perfect.


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ptoner
(@ptoner)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2077
09/12/2013 9:56 am  

Nice piece of satire Steve. 🙂


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Joined: 11 years ago
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10/12/2013 5:10 pm  

rofl steve


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Hamal
(@hamal)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 547
10/12/2013 5:27 pm  

Beau Séant - Be Glorious!

93
Hamal


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