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herupakraath
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03/03/2020 8:28 pm  

An overview and analysis of magical alphabets relevant to Thelema.


djedi, RuneLogIX and liked
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RuneLogIX
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03/03/2020 9:12 pm  

I liked this. I wish there was some mention of Latin (23 characters). Latin works very well for ceremonies and is surprising absent from most Western esoteric traditions despite being easy to learn in lieu of Hebrew.

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


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RuneLogIX
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04/03/2020 4:15 pm  

 

well ain't that interesting Old Latin? Looks like bottom half of Tree of Life. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duenos_inscription

Force and Fire is not metaphorical. In Prophetes Veritas Venit.


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 Anonymous
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05/03/2020 5:30 am  

Great read. Cardinal/ordinal prompted an idea for upper/lowercase attributions for my work. Placed the guide's letter attributions onto the Iris/Rose to their shared elemental/planetary/zodiac and got only one overlap with Windram, but quite a few more with a Windram inspired pattern I was working on as a study. There's another much more significant correspondence between the attributions in this guide and the Iris/Rose however I don't want to give out those attributions, or another hint, just yet.

The way the author worked out their elemental/planetary/zodiac attributions from the code was inspired and agree with their conclusion that what they're onto indicates praeterhuman authorship of the Book of the Law.


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wizardiaoan
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20/03/2020 12:59 pm  

I’ll wait until your book comes out to comment fully, but here are a few things:

The Book of Law is a special case of divine inspiration and influence where the code you are using I agree may have some import. Your code puts in order from 1-26 the most to least used letters (the number of occurrence). This is likely close to the order that would be found in any book as it is tied to the way the English words are naturally and most commonly used in writing. Perhaps you could get some statistics and see if the order you have for the Book of Law matches that of the entire English language, say that found in a dictionary for instance. [Edit: Having considered this more, the dictionary isn't the way to go since it would not take into account the most commonly used words and the most common natural flow of English. You could see if the two match up though].

There is another order you could work with which is the first in occurrence of the book. For instance, if not counting “Had!”, “The manifso u” would be the first words of the number code. This might produce some results as well. I would view these codes as special adjunct ones next to the Serial and Metric order of English, and not superior thereto. It is my belief the further you go from directness the further potency is reduced. There is no more direct way to number an alphabet than with serially progressing number.

The code you are using may have relevance because there are occult super geniuses behind the Book of Law that know how the infinite future will unfold, being beyond spacetime. They knew that Crowley’s hand slash would be that certain way to touch those certain letters so that the verse would sum to 4,774 in Serial English. They are also aware of your code as well as the first letter of occurrence code. Because this universe is carven from infinite divinity and infinite god the divine and magick influence is seen through time. This is why things are seen to come together magickally, such as the Tarot being correlated to the Hebrew alphabet even though it wasn’t the originators intent. There were higher forces at work bringing everything together.

The NAEQ “ALW” code is certainly just a derivative of the common English alphabet, as it uses it for its basis. It is minor at best, since it is not as direct as Serial or Metric English. You see I use philosophical grounds for putting codes in their proper place of relevance.

The Trigrammaton code based on Crowley’s bumbling around seems to be a mess, and moreso than I thought from what I read in the thread named as such on Lashtal, though I will slog through said thread because I have to discuss it in my book. From top down the dao-yang-ying order you would think Crowley uses in that text is actually not followed by Crowley. I attach a chart showing where he deviated from it by simply numbering dao as 1, yang as 2, and yin as 3, again from top down.

27 Trigrammaton

I personally do not like the fact that Crowley's trigram order only pretends to follow the dao-yang-yin order, not to mention his crazy assignment of the English letters thereto. This puts me off of threefold31's work using a base system to number the trigrams and then applying those numbers to Crowley's posited English letter correlations.


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wizardiaoan
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20/03/2020 1:22 pm  

HPK I don't think I'll comment further until your book comes out then we could discuss your specific results. I want you to remain happy. For instance I think the common alphabet of English is serially correlated to the Tarot by place value so that A = Air, B = Mercury, etc., and my opinion is not going to change on this point. I found it interesting the number 143 comes up in your work since in Serial English 143 = "Hoor-paar-kraat," your forum name. [My III:47 4774 Solution came to me at 8:23 p.m. on 8/23/1999, where 823 = Hoor-paar-kraat in Metric English].

When writing your book think about how your II:76 and III:47 solutions will magickally impact the reader. It is likely they should have some magickal application (more than just being "the global sum" for example). For instance my II:76 solution is SATOR AREPO TEXET OPERA ROTAS = 330 in Serial English and my III:47 solution is 4774, the sigil of my avatar. Now note the equation 1111x4+330=4774. This creates a ritual structure where 1111 is in each elemental quarter and 330 is the center as Spirit. Here the SATOR square is meant to be the temple floor and ground the forces of the aeon. Further SATOR AREPO OPERA ROTAS in Greek (where O = Omega) = 4774, so the solutions play off each other, it's very tight.

The following god name may be used in the ritual:

HRVPRKRTh = 1111

HRVPRKRTh = 1111

HRVMAChIS = 330

HRVPRKRTh = 1111

HRVPRKRTh = 1111


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Shiva
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20/03/2020 4:32 pm  
Posted by: @wizardiaoan

occult super geniuses behind the Book of Law that know how the infinite future will unfold, being beyond spacetime.

Oh, those guys. Praeterhuman is the usual term.

Posted by: @wizardiaoan

I personally do not like the fact that Crowley's trigram order only pretends to follow the dao-yang-yin order, not to mention his crazy assignment of the English letters thereto.

He said it himself ... "Unsatisfactory," or some synonym.

Posted by: @wizardiaoan

my opinion is not going to change on this point.

Generally speaking, a flexible approach to anything is recommended in order to avoid krankiness and despair.

 


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threefold31
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26/03/2020 12:46 am  
Posted by: @herupakraath

An overview and analysis of magical alphabets relevant to Thelema.

Dwtw

As usual, you have neglected to mention that it was my idea in the first place to use the letter-counts in AL as a basis for a gematria.

You also incorrectly state that the Global Sum of CCXX includes the page numbers of the Holograph. It does not. It is a summation of CCXX, not the ms.

As to your assessment of the limitations of TEG, you are obviously biased in proving your own system correct, and claim as fact things that are mere opinions.

Of course there are numerous *possible* gematrias that would arrive at the same Global Sum. But you avoid addressing how many would achieve that sum 2 different ways in the Cipher, AND in the first verse, AND in verses 1:46, 1:39 and 3:75 *simultaneously*. Without that complete appraisal, your estimations of the value of the TEG are erroneous.

 

Litlluw

RLG


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threefold31
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26/03/2020 1:03 am  
Posted by: @wizardiaoan

The Trigrammaton code based on Crowley’s bumbling around seems to be a mess,...I personally do not like the fact that Crowley's trigram order only pretends to follow the dao-yang-yin order, not to mention his crazy assignment of the English letters thereto. This puts me off of threefold31's work using a base system to number the trigrams and then applying those numbers to Crowley's posited English letter correlations.

 

Dwtw

Have you actually read The Book of Mutations? It's 500 pages long and presents a complete Trigrammaton Qabalah. It is FAR more than a gematria system. That's only a small part of it. It has plenty of magical applications, because it is a true qabalah.

Your brief comments betray a lack of understanding of the TQ. This is not surprising, because you have your own system to promulgate.

If you plan on addressing the system you need to be familiar with it. No thread on these forums has ever done more than scratch the surface of the TQ, because it's all available elsewhere, and has been for over twenty years.

It's a fact that the Prophet said that Liber XXVII is "the ultimate foundation of the highest theoretical qabalah".  He wasn't kidding.

 

BTW, welcome to Lashtal. Best of luck!

Litlluw

RLG

 


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herupakraath
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26/03/2020 2:58 am  
Posted by: @threefold31

As usual, you have neglected to mention that it was my idea in the first place to use the letter-counts in AL as a basis for a gematria.

I started using the letter counts ten years after the Holy Cram group disbanded, and my doing so had  nothing to do with anything that was said or done ten years earlier by you or anyone else.

Posted by: @threefold31

You also incorrectly state that the Global Sum of CCXX includes the page numbers of the Holograph. It does not. It is a summation of CCXX, not the ms.

Moot.

Posted by: @threefold31

As to your assessment of the limitations of TEG, you are obviously biased in proving your own system correct.

Well certainly you don't expect me to help you. 😀 

Posted by: @threefold31

Of course there are numerous *possible* gematrias that would arrive at the same Global Sum. But you avoid addressing how many would achieve that sum 2 different ways in the Cipher

Not to disappoint you, but one thing I have not done the last 20 years is study every minute detail of your work.

The ability to produce the global sum from within the puzzle using one of your methods rests on the letters of the puzzle enumerating as the value 208: the chances of that occurring at random are 1/120.

The chances of producing the global sum using elements of verse I:46 rests on the words NOTHING and SIXTY-ONE having combined gematria values that equal 176: the chances of that happening at random are 1/89. There is no indication that any of the other methods used are any more significant.

Posted by: @threefold31

AND in the first verse, AND in verses 1:46, 1:39 and 3:75 *simultaneously*

If you used identical methods to generate the global sum it might carry more weight, but as it is, you simply experiment with whatever techniques are available or imagined until you get the result you want.


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threefold31
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26/03/2020 12:56 pm  

Dwtw

My point about letter counts is that the idea originated with me. Precedence is important in scientific work.

As for the odds of any given gematria result, of course more than one system can arrive at the same values. That was the whole point of my original idea, that there are only two possible unique gematrias of AL; one that assigns the highest values to the most common letters, and one that assigns them to the least.

But besides those two, one of which you explore, there is only one gematria that is based on the Prophet's own solution to 2:55. You defend the former in order to prove you're the follower, I defend the latter because I take a literal view of the verse in question.

 

Litlluw

RLG

 


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ignant666
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26/03/2020 2:09 pm  
Posted by: @threefold31

scientific work

!!!!


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Michael Staley
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26/03/2020 3:25 pm  
Posted by: @threefold31

My point about letter counts is that the idea originated with me.

Why is that important?


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Shiva
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26/03/2020 3:25 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

!!!

??? Ignant, I see you are paying particular attention to what can happen when Hod rules the show ???


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threefold31
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26/03/2020 4:39 pm  
Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @threefold31

My point about letter counts is that the idea originated with me.

Why is that important?

Dwtw

It is considered good form to credit the originator of an idea. Surely you know that already. You wouldn't write up a development of one of Grant's ideas and not cite the source, would you?

In the Book of Mutations I developed a number of ideas that were first proposed by others, and always made sure to give credit where it is due.

And to Ignant666, yes, there is *some* science to it. HPK's whole paper is about mathematical rigor and how it supposedly proves praeter human origins of AL, (and not coincidentally his status as the discoverer of this). 

The letter values are math, all the rest is an art form.

 

Litlluw

RLG


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Shiva
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26/03/2020 5:00 pm  
Posted by: @threefold31

The letter values are math, all the rest is an art form.

Footnote:

   Math = Hod

   Art = Netzach

 


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Michael Staley
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26/03/2020 6:08 pm  
Posted by: @threefold31

You wouldn't write up a development of one of Grant's ideas and not cite the source, would you?

No, I wouldn't. However, if someone were to develop an idea which was regarded as mine, without citation, I wouldn't be offended.


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threefold31
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26/03/2020 6:36 pm  

Dwtw

Understood. That reminds me, I reread your essay The Heart of Thelema the other day. Excellent piece. Lots of great ideas. I won't be cribbing any, but I very much enjoyed revisiting it. Kudos!

 

Litlluw

RLG


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Michael Staley
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26/03/2020 6:52 pm  
Posted by: @threefold31

Understood. That reminds me, I reread your essay The Heart of Thelema the other day. Excellent piece. Lots of great ideas. I won't be cribbing any, but I very much enjoyed revisiting it. Kudos!

Thank you for your appreciative remarks, threefold31.


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the_real_simon_iff
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26/03/2020 9:36 pm  

93!

I have to admit this all goes a little over my head. I just want to say that I always thought if there is a solution to II:76 it must be more than convincing. I mean, how lame would it be to show that the letters add up to 93 or to 418 or whatever? So I have to give credit to RTC that his "solution" at least SOLVES many things, IF you buy into RTC's agenda, that is. But it is a lot more than only qabalistic meddling, it makes sense, in its unique way. Only 5 more days to speak openly about it but - as I have said before - even if I don't think RTC is right at all, his "solution" makes much more sense than any other I have seen before. Sometimes I wish he would be right because it would make so much things easier. Alas, I think he is not. But: Numerology won't beat him.

All the best

Love=Law

Lutz


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ignant666
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26/03/2020 10:18 pm  

Only 5 days until The Unveiling.... Gawsh!

Is my breath bated with anticipation, or is it COVID-19?

If RTC's solution makes any sense at all, as you, an apparently not-nuts person, seem to indicate it does (at least on its own terms), it will be the first i've seen that passes this (very) minimal test.


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herupakraath
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26/03/2020 11:02 pm  
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

I have to admit this all goes a little over my head. I just want to say that I always thought if there is a solution to II:76 it must be more than convincing.

What would convince you? With everyone else dealing in theories or hypotheses, you might as well throw in your two cents.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

I mean, how lame would it be to show that the letters add up to 93 or to 418 or whatever?

It would not be lame at all if it could be demonstrated the value produced was intended by the author of the puzzle; the only way to do that it to show the value is contained in the puzzle independently of the letters, like this:

ABKALGMORYXRPSTOVAL = 219
76 + 4 + 6 + 3 + 8 + 2 + 4 + 3 + 24 + 89 = 219

Or the uppercase letters in the first half of the puzzle equaling the value of the letters in the second part of the puzzle:

ABKLGMORY = 113
24 + 89 = 113

Or the sentence that immediately follows the puzzle enumerating as the combined values in the puzzle:

What meaneth this o prophet? = 143
4 + 6 + 3 + 8 + 2 + 4 + 3 + 24 + 89 = 143

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

So I have to give credit to RTC that his "solution" at least SOLVES many things, IF you buy into RTC's agenda, that is. But it is a lot more than only qabalistic meddling, it makes sense, in its unique way.

The only problem with that approach is everyone with a solution thinks their solution makes sense in its own unique way.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Sometimes I wish he would be right because it would make so much things easier. Alas, I think he is not. But: Numerology won't beat him.

I provided a limited solution to see what the reaction would be to one that deals largely in inexplicable numeric coincidences, which most certainly can demonstrate praeterhuman authorship of the Book of the Law to those that understand how improbable they are. I knew it would never be enough to sway most people, but I was curious to see what the reaction would be: it was as expected, it went right over most heads.

There is no solution to any of the verses of the Book of the Law that will sway the rational mind if the nature of the solution defies rationality.  The problem Cole has beyond having to solve all of the verse challenges like everyone else, is most people interested in Thelema have no desire to see Crowley proven a liar and a fraud, and for that reason alone Cole will fail, and Thelema will continue on regardless.

On April 8th I'll provide a more or less complete solution to verse II:76, which includes explaining most of its purpose, but it will not make any difference; no amount of evidence will change belief bias in most individuals.


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the_real_simon_iff
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26/03/2020 11:11 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666
If RTC's solution makes any sense at all, as you, an apparently not-nuts person, seem to indicate it does (at least on its own terms), it will be the first i've seen that passes this (very) minimal test.

Well, as I said you have to come into that groove first. If you are there (which is doubtful for most rational people) it DOES make sense. Meaning, if you share his agenda, it is very meaningful. Still too much numerological twisting for me personally, but that is each to his own. We will all see Crowley's ship sailing as swift as before. But with one solution more on our hands...

Love=Law

Lutz (quite non-nuts, I would guess)


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wellreadwellbred
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27/03/2020 12:01 am  

herupakraath: "It would not be lame at all if it could be demonstrated the value produced was intended by the author of the puzzle; the only way to do that it to show the value is contained in the puzzle independently of the letters".

 

RTC is also working on demonstrating how the puzzle and the other content  within the Book of the Law, was intented by the author. Why are you doing RTC's job for him?


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Shiva
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27/03/2020 12:36 am  
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

his "solution" makes much more sense than any other I have seen before.

(Thirteen (13) LAShTAL Qabalistic Numerologists and Manipulatologists slap their foreheads. simultaneously, and intone the mantra "Whhaaaat the Funny?")

Posted by: @ignant666

Only 5 days until The Unveiling

OH, Ignant  you are so punctual. Every time you announce the number, my water element gets excited and I have to take my trousers to the washing machine.

 

 


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