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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
12/11/2006 8:02 pm  

This is a technical question:

What do those of you who prepare Cakes Of Light use for the "thick leavings" of Red Wine? I drink my share of wine, mostly red, but I have never encountered "thick leavings". Blood will clot, but that is already covered in the list of ingredients. Am I missing something? I really hope this isn't a secret revealed only to Initiates because I'm not sure I have the time and money to go that route.

Curious Nick, the Chimp of Thoth


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frater_cug
(@frater_cug)
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12/11/2006 8:18 pm  

Wine leavings are filtered out of most wine nowdays. What I do is buy some red grape juice, and dump a packet of yeast into it and let it ferment into "wine" (Don't drink it, it's nasty) I pour the wine through an old clean t-shirt to collect the leavings.

This has an advantage as they yeast still has a bit of life to it so it raises the Cakes of Light dough so you don't end up with Cakes of Rock.

Personally I have more problems finding decent Oil of Abramelin


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Proteus
(@proteus)
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12/11/2006 10:00 pm  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Old port or Bordeaux sometimes has leavings. That can be hit or miss and can be pricey (certainly more pricey than an initiation, nick!). I've known people who have obtained a substitute by slowly reducing port over a low flame. The resultant goo can be used as leavings.

Personally I have more problems finding decent Oil of Abramelin

amen, brother

John

Love is the Law, love under will.


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Anonymous
 Anonymous
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13/11/2006 12:32 am  

If you're set on using the leavings, frater_cugs' idea is awesome, or else maybe you can find a brand of wine that includes the leaves. If you know some one who grows grapes, maybe it will suffice for now to pick some leaves and throw them in with what you're already using. I didn't take this literally and so I just buy Port wine because it's thick in itself and is very dark like blood. It even crusts when left on skin for a while which looks again, much like blood.

Vi


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kidneyhawk
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13/11/2006 1:27 am  

Um...with all due respect to the Thelemic Chefs and considering that Liber AL is the Aeonic Grimoire, delivered from a Praeternatural Intelligence, could it be possible that AC (or at LEAST Aiwass) would be laughing at these "Cakes" being made in the kitchen???


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frater_cug
(@frater_cug)
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13/11/2006 2:36 am  

I'm feeling talky so lets expand this a bit.

Just what are thick leavings of red wine? I came up with three possibilities.

1. Leftover wine. Lets say less than a glassfull in a bottle left to evaporate to make it thick. (reduced port fits this)

2. The sediment that is found in wine bottles made of of dead/excess yeast, and grape skins/seeds/stems. Commonly known as lees or dregs

3. The grape mash left over from pressing them to get the juice out.

Now they all seem to have problems, #1 seems a bit artificial to me. #2's problem is I just don't see the sediment being called leavings, you almost always see it as lees or dregs. #3 Now this is actually called wine leavings but I don't know if I'd call it thick. Solid yes, thick no.

In a perfect world I'd use what would be a combination of 1 and 2. The leftover wine in a bottle that holds the sediment. (The part thick with the leavings)

Actually this brings up another question.. What do you use for the meal? I tend to use barley as it was something an Egyptian god would be familiar with.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
13/11/2006 6:26 am  

I was just talking about this with a fellow thelemite today. What a good majority of the people I asked said they get their leavings from a winery in the area (LA). Fairly easy to come by apparently (if you live near a winery), as it's pretty much just trash to them.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
13/11/2006 10:42 am  

kidneyhawk wrote:

Um...with all due respect to the Thelemic Chefs and considering that Liber AL is the Aeonic Grimoire, delivered from a Praeternatural Intelligence, could it be possible that AC (or at LEAST Aiwass) would be laughing at these "Cakes" being made in the kitchen???

Um, I hope this doesn't mean the process requires making them in the loo...

nick the queasy


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
13/11/2006 12:00 pm  

If you don't mind sourcing your information from that rather dubious fountain of knowledge that springs forth from the long term unemployed, Wikipedia has the following:

How to make wine leavings
Items needed:

One gallon carboy or thick glass jug
Cork or stopper for jug
Fermentation lock for jug
1 pkg wine yeast (available from brew supply store)
3 quarts 100% purple grape juice (2 cans frozen concentrate with water)
1 teaspoon vodka
Place juice into glass jug and allow it to reach room temperature. Pour yeast into jug. Cork jug and shake to mix well. Place 1 teaspoon of vodka into fermentation lock and add water to fill fermentation lock about half full. Place fermentation lock on jug. Keep jug out of direct sun at room temperature and let set about 3 weeks. Within 24-48 hours it should start to produce gas that will be let off through the fermentation lock. When it is producing minimal gas, 1-2 bubbles per minute, it is ready. Gently pour off most of the liquid and discard, leaving 1-2 cups of liquid. Swirl jug and mix the leavings in the bottom of the jug with the liquid. Pour this into a mason jar and refrigerate for use in cakes of light. You may pour off more liquid later after the leavings have settled. This will keep for a long time in the refrigerator


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
15/12/2008 4:45 pm  
"nashimiron" wrote:
If you don't mind sourcing your information from that rather dubious fountain of knowledge that springs forth from the long term unemployed, Wikipedia has the following:

How to make wine leavings
Items needed:

One gallon carboy or thick glass jug
Cork or stopper for jug
Fermentation lock for jug
1 pkg wine yeast (available from brew supply store)
3 quarts 100% purple grape juice (2 cans frozen concentrate with water)
1 teaspoon vodka
Place juice into glass jug and allow it to reach room temperature. Pour yeast into jug. Cork jug and shake to mix well. Place 1 teaspoon of vodka into fermentation lock and add water to fill fermentation lock about half full. Place fermentation lock on jug. Keep jug out of direct sun at room temperature and let set about 3 weeks. Within 24-48 hours it should start to produce gas that will be let off through the fermentation lock. When it is producing minimal gas, 1-2 bubbles per minute, it is ready. Gently pour off most of the liquid and discard, leaving 1-2 cups of liquid. Swirl jug and mix the leavings in the bottom of the jug with the liquid. Pour this into a mason jar and refrigerate for use in cakes of light. You may pour off more liquid later after the leavings have settled. This will keep for a long time in the refrigerator

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

There problem with this one here is that it isn't Leavings of wine you are artificially making it.... Make is kinda the pretense of leave. Perhaps the idea of boiling it down or using think wine itself when down to a small amount ion a bottle


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
15/12/2008 5:05 pm  
"frater_cug" wrote:
Personally I have more problems finding decent Oil of Abramelin

Real magicians obtain the individual oils and blend them magically. Absolutely pure real magicians extract the individual oils from the corresponding herbs and resins. Country gentleman magicians stroll down to the local shop and buy the final product already blended by someone else.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
15/12/2008 5:13 pm  
"papanick" wrote:
What do ... you ... use for the "thick leavings" of Red Wine?

Sorry, but this is a close copy of the response posted above in relation to Oil, but the answer remains similar:

Real magicians obtain the individual constituents and make their own wine. There will be a thick, sludge-like residue at the bottom of the container. And it won't taste horrible like when you make "reconstituted" wine.

I suppose the point is to get down to basics in wines, oils, weapons, and concepts. It's called "Do it yourself!"


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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15/12/2008 5:16 pm  
"nashimiron" wrote:
...make wine leavings

Congratulations. An authentic magician gives practical advice.


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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15/12/2008 5:30 pm  
"Sphynx" wrote:
pure real magicians extract the individual oils from the corresponding herbs and resins. Country gentleman magicians stroll down to the local shop and buy the final product already blended by someone else.

93!

I think it nonsense that a "real"magician should be not much more than a herbalist or a pharmacist, while other magicians (like for example Aleister Crowley himself) should be not much more than country gentleman magicians...

But that's what I think. I would be glad if someone would call me even a "country gentleman"...

Love=Law
Lutz


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
15/12/2008 6:20 pm  
"the_real_simon_iff" wrote:
I think it nonsense that a "real"magician should be not much more than a herbalist or a pharmacist, while other magicians (like for example Aleister Crowley himself) should be not much more than country gentleman magicians...

A.C. (himself) wrote that one should avoid going to the department store with their list and ordering up pre-manufactured stuff. That statement is probably somewhere in Book IV - Perhaps someone knows exactly where.

No one even remotely suggested that a real magician should be limited to ("should not be much more than...") herbalism . It was suggested that they get down to brass tacks and "Do it themselves." It's called "The Labor of Preparation," and it's a magical power (see Liber 777).

"the_real_simon_iff" wrote:
I would be glad if someone would call me even a "country gentleman"...

You, sir, are a Country Gentleman!

Well, I'm tired of this now and will move on to the holier place. Thank you for your attention, and the best of luck to all of you purchasers of pre-manufactured, magical goods. Aum Haa !


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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16/12/2008 11:13 pm  
"Sphynx" wrote:
A.C. (himself) wrote that one should avoid going to the department store with their list and ordering up pre-manufactured stuff.

93!

Although I don't know that quote, it still doesn't support the theory that it makes someone a "less real" magician. Of course it is preferrable to prepare it on your own, it is also preferrable to manufacture your own robe (AC had his manufactured and even advertised for manufacturers in the Equinox) and it might be even preferrable for a particular ritual to have seven Greek virgins at hand - but how all of this would make one a "more real" magician I still do not see.

I am sorry that you are already tired of this, I just wanted to add my comment on it. But what am I? A country gentleman and a purchaser of pre-manufactured magical goods (I admit, I did it once...) - and a less real magician. Still I liked the results...

In short: I agree what you are saying (especially in the context of this paticular thread), but I do not agree with your deductions about the real-ness of magicians. That's all. And now I am tired...

Love=Law
Lutz


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
17/12/2008 3:50 am  
"the_real_simon_iff" wrote:
and it might be even preferrable for a particular ritual to have seven Greek virgins at hand - but how all of this would make one a "more real" magician I still do not see.

You need Greek virgins, Lutz? We got Greek virgins here in LA! Send me a PM. 🙂


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
17/12/2008 10:22 am  
"Camlion" wrote:
"the_real_simon_iff" wrote:
and it might be even preferrable for a particular ritual to have seven Greek virgins at hand - but how all of this would make one a "more real" magician I still do not see.

You need Greek virgins, Lutz? We got Greek virgins here in LA! Send me a PM. 🙂

There are virgins in LA ??? 😀


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
17/12/2008 3:16 pm  

93

I believe that it is the following quote that you are thinking of:

"The more trouble and difficulty your weapon costs, the more useful you will find it. 'If you want a thing well done, do it yourself.' It would be quite useless to take this book to a department store, and instruct them to furnish you a Temple according to specification. It is really well worth the while of the student who requires a Sword to go and dig out iron ore from the earth, to smelt it himself with charcoal that he has himself prepared, to forge the weapon with his own hands, and even to take the trouble of synthesizing the Oil of Vitriol with which it is engraved. He will have learnt a lot of useful things in his attempt to make a really virgin Sword; he will understand how one thing depends upon another; he will begin to appreciate the meaning of the words 'the harmony of the Universe,' so often used so stupidly and superficially by the ordinary apologist for Nature, and he will also perceive the true operation of the law of karma." (Book 4, Part III, Ch. VIII, pt II).

I hope the above helps.

93 93/93

John


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
17/12/2008 6:44 pm  
"zardoz" wrote:
"Camlion" wrote:
"the_real_simon_iff" wrote:
and it might be even preferrable for a particular ritual to have seven Greek virgins at hand - but how all of this would make one a "more real" magician I still do not see.

You need Greek virgins, Lutz? We got Greek virgins here in LA! Send me a PM. 🙂

There are virgins in LA ??? 😀

Oh yes! Inspected and certified by Camlion himself. 😀


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
17/12/2008 9:19 pm  
"the_real_simon_iff" wrote:
...and it might be even preferrable for a particular ritual to have seven Greek virgins at hand - but how all of this would make one a "more real" magician I still do not see.

Love=Law
Lutz

Now that would make you a real magician! 😉

Best Wishes

Charles


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ianrons
(@ianrons)
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Posts: 1126
17/12/2008 9:22 pm  
"Camlion" wrote:
You need Greek virgins, Lutz? We got Greek virgins here in LA! [...] Inspected and certified by Camlion himself.

Are you an olive oil merchant?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
17/12/2008 9:23 pm  

I see three 'A' Class males in da house:)


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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18/12/2008 5:10 pm  
"ianrons" wrote:
"Camlion" wrote:
You need Greek virgins, Lutz? We got Greek virgins here in LA! [...] Inspected and certified by Camlion himself.

Are you an olive oil merchant?

That might bring us full circle in this thread on making one's own Oil of Abra Melin? Ian, have you considered a career with the intelligence services yourself? 😉


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ianrons
(@ianrons)
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18/12/2008 10:55 pm  
"Camlion" wrote:
That might bring us full circle in this thread on making one's own Oil of Abra Melin? Ian, have you considered a career with the intelligence services yourself? 😉

Why, are you offering me a job? 😛


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Perdurex
(@perdurex)
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05/01/2009 8:42 pm  

Ok, this one works for me:

Buy a bottle of red wine, pour it into a saucepan and boil it down to a thick syrup (you can drink a glass while it boils). Eventually you end up with a thick sticky red goo which arguably could be considered 'leavings' i.e. that which is left after boiling off the water and alcohol. It makes good cakes. Go easy on the 'secret ingredient', but be generous with the honey & oil and don't overcook them. These are meant to be cakes, not crisps.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
05/01/2009 10:27 pm  

oh, a red wine jous, why didn't you say so.......*invokes Gordon Ramsey*


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
31/01/2010 2:02 am  

93 all,

I decided to do some investigation on this subject. I thought: WWCD? So I opened my copy of "The Law is For All" and turned to page 284 where AC discusses what HE thinks Leavings of wine are:

"Meal: Ordinary wheaten flour; leavings: the "beeswing" of port should be good;...."

Then I decided to look up what "beeswing" is:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/beeswing says:
beeswing [ˈbiːzˌwɪŋ]
n
1. (Miscellaneous Technologies / Brewing) a light filmy crust of tartar that forms in port and some other wines after long keeping in the bottle
2. (Miscellaneous Technologies / Brewing) a port or other wine containing beeswing

SO we can surmise that even AC doesn't say "Leavings of wine are exactly this and nothing else will do." So it seems that any such item obtainable by the magician will do, be it actual "beeswing" or the boiled down remnants. There is an old addage which I think has some rather appropriate magical wisdom in it: "You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes you might find you get what you need." That should be the footnote to the page in Book IV, Part III, Ch. VIII, pt II

Enjoy 😉

93


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
31/01/2010 3:53 am  

What do you suppose "Thick leavings of red wine" symbolizes? In ceremonial Magick everything has a symbol-logical meaning. If this meaning is left in tact, if it is consonant with what ever you employ as "leavings", then it is correct.


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Lucius
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Posts: 42
31/01/2010 5:09 am  

Abraxas365, I feel that you have brought this discussion full circle (drumroll please)
I prefer the "beeswing" interpretation, myself, although everyone else I know personally uses some form of wine reduction technique or makes a trip to the winery to beg for what are very literally leavings of red wine.
"Beeswing" which is also known as Cream of Tartar, is readily available in your local grocery store. Seek ye the spice aisle.
Cream of Tartar has a delightful pedigree in the fine art of alchemy, which is worth more than a little consideration
93 lu


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
01/02/2010 2:29 am  

93 Lucius,

Thank you much for your appendant wisdom! I will endure the abodes of Choronzon that is the grocery store in search of this Cream of Tartar. Thanks again!

93


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Lucius
(@lucius)
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01/02/2010 3:47 am  

93!

You're very much welcome 8)
Shouldn't even come to a total of $3.33 if I remember correctly


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