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The HGA of a Duck
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13/04/2020 2:37 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

How about, "Set up my image in the East..." (III:21) with "up" as a vocative command made by RHK to Set with reference to his "image"?

😊 I think you're intending this humorously though there was a little discussion recently on how the meaning of AL can be changed by adding or removing the "stops". Quite comical new meanings can arise and with "the stops as thou wilt" it could be argued that these meanings are also valid. Personally I'm pretty conservative on this and its quite clear to read the intended meaning with the help of AC's commentary. Along with this "intended meaning" I believe there can be "resonances" in there and the English word "set" is somehow inseparable from the name "Set". This resonance is vague in the above quote but this may be a stronger example:

"Get the stélé of revealing itself; set it in thy secret temple..."

I see the following "resonances" in this example:

the stele: the Was sceptre can be seen as a symbol of Set

revealing: Set is a "hidden" god

set: Set (of course)

secret temple: again, the hidden quality of Set and the idea that he is hidden in Liber AL and not explicitly stated.

 

I did a word search for "set" in Liber AL, its there 3 times. The other one not so far mentioned is:

"I am the blue-lidded daughter of Sunset; I am the naked brilliance of the voluptuous night-sky."

Nut is the mother of Set and here we could see a slightly bizarre "resonance" with this family relation where Nuit describes herself as daughter. Set has been described as the "midnight sun" previously in this thread, again some resonance there.

 

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

That's a really good point. Set is right there on the Stele since the beginning. He's basically dead center.

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

Technically if Crowley heard it and tried to write it, Aiwass and I-Was could be identical.

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

Um... the Was Scepter... 

I like the kind of "brainstorming" that goes on in these threads and I feel like I've learned something today. With this new knowledge I can sort of see what Set-Tetu is getting at and it doesn't seem so "esoteric" now. With the "was sceptre" his case for Aiwass = Set is now much more convincing.

With the following changes that also tie in with what was talked about with alternate meanings we could get this sentence:

"Behold! it is revealed by I, Was the minister of Hoor-paar-kraat."

For me this sentence sounds a bit "off", but its an amusing example anyway.

 

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

a similar angle of significance which is an further analogue resonating upon this angle, that I suppose could become an obsessional sort of fascination

stick

😛

 

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

Thanks for the quack well the diagram was fine though... well I don't often get the opportunity to utilize relevant quotes, but some times, well here we go~

-Enough of Because!-

Your post prompted me to measure those angles and leave a record of them here, maybe for some lurker to find years from now, like I once was visiting this site years ago.

I appreciate the kind of "creative writing" that you sometimes post, but wonder what makes you switch from a more "sober" posting style to this. I suspect some mystical potion (a green one?) involved, maybe the same thing some poet might have drunk (in the year 1874). 😊 


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Jamie J Barter
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13/04/2020 3:08 am  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

Um... the Was Scepter... 

Er... to my eyes the Was Sceptre is just left of centre and the true centre goes through the far leftmost of what RTC descriptively calls the "banana"-shaped offerings on the table of offerings (although I wouldn't go so far as to stake my life on it).

Lacking a calibrated ruler and a large enough reproduction of the Stele at the present time, perhaps somebody else could verify?  I promise I won't cry if I'm wrong!

Incidentally, why should RHK want to be handing over his 'royal' was to the self-slain priest Ankh-af-na-khonsu anyway (as suggested)?

Posted by: @duck

😊 I think you're intending this humorously

No, you don't say, duck?! 🤣 Still, as they say: there's often truth in jest, and a fairly waterproof case for this could actually be made out by anybody so inclined...

N Joy

 


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Set-Tetu-Ra
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13/04/2020 3:25 am  

@duck

II,15: For I am perfect, being Not; and my number is nine by the fools; but with the just I am eight, and one in eight: Which is vital, for I am none indeed.

9-1, 8, 8 = 8+8+8 = 24 = Set (1+8+5+1+9). 

 

II,19: Is a God to live in a dog? No! but the highest are of us

A pun about the doglike creature used to represent Set, the sha? 

 

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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The HGA of a Duck
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13/04/2020 4:20 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Lacking a calibrated ruler and a large enough reproduction of the Stele at the present time, perhaps somebody else could verify?

Its all relative so a pic of the original will do, and pixels will do just as well as mm's or inches. I'm still up and about this time of night and had nothing better to do, so:

stele centre

I put the "physical" centre in red (midpoint from edge to edge) and the "esthetic" centre in green (passing through the centre of "Hadit" or whatever his original name was, i don't remember).

 

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

Set (1+8+5+1+9)

Sorry for the (possibly dumb) question but how are you getting those numbers?

 

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

Is a God to live in a dog?

I spammed this pic in some other thread so I may as well spam it here too:

dog

 

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

A pun about the doglike creature used to represent Set, the sha?

Possibly, it could also double up as our old pal Anubis.

 


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Set-Tetu-Ra
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13/04/2020 4:40 am  

@duck

Ohhhh man i had S as 18 and T as 19 instead of 19 and 20. All wrong! Except the III:47 solution that started the thread. 

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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Behemoth
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13/04/2020 8:16 am  
Posted by: @duck

the stele: the Was sceptre can be seen as a symbol of Set

revealing: Set is a "hidden" god

set: Set (of course)

secret temple: again, the hidden quality of Set and the idea that he is hidden in Liber AL and not explicitly stated.

 

I did a word search for "set" in Liber AL, its there 3 times. The other one not so far mentioned is:

"I am the blue-lidded daughter of Sunset; I am the naked brilliance of the voluptuous night-sky."

Nut is the mother of Set and here we could see a slightly bizarre "resonance" with this family relation where Nuit describes herself as daughter. Set has been described as the "midnight sun" previously in this thread, again some resonance there.

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

Technically if Crowley heard it and tried to write it, Aiwass and I-Was could be identical.

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

Um... the Was Scepter... 

I like the kind of "brainstorming" that goes on in these threads and I feel like I've learned something today. With this new knowledge I can sort of see what Set-Tetu is getting at and it doesn't seem so "esoteric" now. With the "was sceptre" his case for Aiwass = Set is now much more convincing.

 

 

When it comes to brainstorming on lashtal, most of the time it is a "Simpsons Already Did It" -situation and the so-called new discoveries are just rehashed speculation from years ago.

 

If you are willing to do some dumpster diving: a post that deals with the "Was-sceptre and Aiwass" can be found ~7 years ago:

 

https://www.lashtal.com/forums/thelema/crowley-and-his-discrepancies/paged/4/#post-76803

Posted by: @john-griffith

 

I think the best candidate is the word was - signifying the Was sceptre - the fabulous Set-headed sceptre wielded by Ra-Hoor-Khut on the Stele of Ankh-af-na-Khonsu.  Tipped with an animal head, the bottom of the wand forks into curving double prongs.  The head atop it is usually thought to be canine - albeit a fabulous canine.  "An ivory comb of Djet shows two such sceptres supporting the vault of heaven, symbolized the outspread winds of the celestial falcon."  Other depictions, for instance from the reliefs of Djoser at Saqqara, show the was-sceptre holding a fan, and even dancing. 

 

The sceptre is a symbol of dominion and power, especially divine power.  It has been shown wielded by a variety of gods, among them Wsr, Hrw, Anpw, and Djhwti.  It is thought to have originated as a type of animal goad be it mule or donkey, and the forks might work well with a snake.  See Toby Wilkinson's interesting section on it in his work Early Dynastic Egypt

 

This sceptre itself is connected with Thebes through its name Wast – City of the Was-Sceptre – which is aprope the name of the one city mentioned in AL, outside of Cairo, in Arabic the Victorious - El Qahira.  If there is an intended ancient Egyptian etymological signification of the word Aiwass – the consonantal root of the Was sceptre appears to be the most likely.  If so, Crowley was not the first to employ word puns – as far back as the Old Kingdom and the Pyramid Texts it appears the ancient Egyptians delighted in such word play, and they later employed it to excess at the end of their era, when they sought to bedazzle and mystify their conquerors, be it the Persians, Greeks, or Romans – at which time – with the possible sole exception of Horapollo – an impenetrable veil covered the hieroglyphs until the time of Champollion and the Rosetta Stone. 

 

I actually got to see this remarkable stele in the British Museum in 1980 at the end of my Pershing Nuclear Missle service in Deutschland – the beginning of the end of the Cold War as these missles were the first nuclear missles destroyed in history in accordance with the Treaty signed in Iceland.  This period of the paronomasia of the obscuration of the Egytpian tongue is closest to the period of Ankh-af-na-Khonsu, the last great flowering of ancient Egypt prior to their subjugation by the nations which surrounded them.  The spelling of Thebes in ancient Egyptian is composed of the hieroglyphs of the Was sceptre, the T hieroglyph of a loaf of bread, homonymous with the Egyptian word – Ta – Earth – and the circle squared hieroglyph signifying City, Town, Lower Heaven – phonetically Niut.  However, even if the root of Aiwass is Was – it is important to see if perhaps other signfications enter into the composition of the word – either through the root WS – or through the vowels which precede it. 

 

And indeed, we find that there are a number of other roots which may enter into the formation of the word.  I will mention first the IW of AIWASS – as the root IW is rich in ancient Egyptian.  On the one hand it is the veritable hunch-back of AL – the famous Ear of AL of the title page of AL – in which an exclamation mark and an interrogation mark are conjoined to form the Ear of the Beast into which the word of Aiwass is said to have been uttered, as one of the restricted meaning if IW in A. Egyptian is that of hump-back, the hieroglyph denoting it is a hump-backed man.  Reading Aiwass as the Hunch-back of the Was Sceptre is to read it as the Question Mark of Power, and Origin.  However, IW also signifies dog in ancient Egyptian, in which case Aiwass is the Dog – that is either Set or Anubis – of the Head of the Sceptre.  In a less literal and restricted sense, the verbal sense of the root IW is that on the one hand of extending, and on the other of being.  In the first sense then Aiwass is the Extension of the Sceptre – that is – the application of its power. 

 

It is remarkable that the Hebrew letter L, the original name of the work in question signfies the very idea of Extension.  The root IW in its purest verbal sense – that of being and to come and perhaps to go – is thought to be connected to the identical verbal ideas of being contained in the final three letters of the Tetragrammaton.  Massey, in his Lectures, thought IW or IU to be a name of Heru – the Ever Coming Son.  The Alpha and the Omega of the letters Crowley assigned to Trigrammaton are I and U.  If the IW of AIWASS signifies being then the meaning of Aiwass is that of the Being of the Was-Sceptre - that is the minister of the power of the god.  Finally, and yet quite to the point we discover in the identical lexicons of ancient Egyptian that the word IWSW signifies BALANCE.  Given that the original name of the work is L and in the Arcana of Tahuti it is the Atu of Balance a more fitting denomination of the Author – who after all was a Libran – could not be found.

 

 

Behold now Behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.


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Set-Tetu-Ra
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13/04/2020 3:21 pm  

@duck 

If there's a good reason to subtract 1 from the total of Set's name it would still work haha, though obviously that's reaching. i.e. Set = 25-1 because of his separation from Nuit or something hahaha. Still not as impressive without a good reason for -1. 

Unless this gives us a minus 1:

"with the just I am eight, and one in eight"

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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Set-Tetu-Ra
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13/04/2020 4:02 pm  

Man I confused myself yesterday. Set = 44 and 17, (19, 5, 20). With this data if I can still find him in the riddles that's just crazy, because the math is totally different. 

And yet... 

1,24-5:

44÷(6/50)=366.6666666667
366.6666666667+56=422.6666666667
422.6666666667(6×50)=126,800
1+2+6+8=17=Set

And....

II,15:

8, 1, 8
8+1+8=17=Set

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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The HGA of a Duck
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13/04/2020 5:15 pm  
Posted by: @behemoth

When it comes to brainstorming on lashtal, most of the time it is a "Simpsons Already Did It" -situation and the so-called new discoveries are just rehashed speculation from years ago.

 

If you are willing to do some dumpster diving: a post that deals with the "Was-sceptre and Aiwass" can be found ~7 years ago:

Thanks for providing that in-depth description, I probably would never have found it (and amusingly, it remained "hidden" 😊 ). "Dumpster diving" may not be my strong point and searching for the word "was" would probably be futile. I will read the whole thread you posted now to see what was going on.

I may be showing my 4chan influence here where sometimes a combined brainstorming effort brings good results one day and the thread then disappears forever the next. I hope this isn't too much of a problem here, I understand there needs to be a balance between knowing what has been posted and bringing up something that might be new, but i could never read every single thread posted. 🙂 

The post by @hadgigegenraum made my slow brain finally notice that "Was" sounds like "Aiwass", I would probably never have found that old post to make the connection but I got it from this random coincidence instead. Luckily you found that post and now it all connects up again:

 

Posted by: @behemoth

It is thought to have originated as a type of animal goad be it mule or donkey

Posted by: @behemoth

the Hebrew letter L, the original name of the work in question

Lamed= the ox-goad.

The original title was "Liber L", the "L" (ox-goad) "goaded" the missing "A" (ox) to appear so it became "Liber AL". 🙂 

 

Posted by: @behemoth

title page of AL

00

 

With this speculation on Aiwass, Set and AL, this seems like a good place to post this pic I made from the title page a while ago by "mirroring" the figure with his arm raised:

title01

I thought it looked like a god/angel handing down a "book" to the figure below with his arms raised up to receive it.

 

title02

An extra "flip" shows the deity "bestowing" the book down with his arms. With the speculation in this thread the "deity" looks a bit Set-like.

 

title03

I enlarged it a bit. The negative colours bring out this "Set-ness". 😊 


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hadgigegenraum
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13/04/2020 5:49 pm  

@duck

93

Yes perhaps I should have not been so swift to strike back with the quote, "Enough of Because!" for if I had perhaps contemplated your offered numerical declinations a bit more, rather than to have interpreted the reply as merely a surface reflection suggesting that the analogy does not hold up.... where yes I did interpret your post by analogy, as you have asserted a pharmacological causation, as being a mathematical 'buzz kill' to what I was offering...then well perhaps you would have been spared my own going off tangent rather than reflecting on the measurement of the relative tangents the Duck under the table hath quacked about...in silence throughs the ages...

Well yes regarding the relative declinations of 35 & 46 degrees from your calculations, it is interesting that you have offered the addition that yields 81(degrees) which is a feast in itself if not to mention the inherent 9 squared juiciness that speaks to a very strange math where nine equals two, and thus degrees relative to the sphere of "Wisdom"  and thus Tahuti and where in the realm of "Understanding" we might expect as from II 76 a 38 to compliment 46, where 38 takes us to 24 by multiplication and thus we have another two four found in the numbers and letters if we may takes such liberties, and by a translation through values from  old book then it is curious to note that "aught" adds to 24...which brings then three two fours into that mix...of II 76...

Fun indeed and or great danger...seeing we might well get sucked into another prominent thread...

Rather than proceeding farther at this time maybe I will offer another tangent depending upon the angle of one's bill...so in the duck world a duck is also the female duck and the male is known as the drake, which speaks of Draco, and thus I am sure a duck's HGA may well be finding her mate or drake, and thus we might infer a Draconian or Typhonian resonation that thus further reverberates with the perhaps (if slightly off center -@jamiejbarter & suggestions are suggestive) reality of the Uas  or  Was, (making a noun a verb), as being the power offered....

Indeed the Stele of Revealing is an offering, an offering waiting and opened, even though "O prophet! thou hast ill will to learn this writing" as is found in verse 10 of the Second Chapter, to which an answer is given in II. v 13, which is perhaps correctly numbered when 1 and 3 equal four and the verse starts with "for why?"....Yes why for when I thought 13  equaled 1 as one child preferred has insisted, but that is another story, when we consider that "for why?" ( I thought it was 3 Y) is answered by....drum roll....."Because thou wast the knower" with emphasis on the spelling of a certain word, or rather as @ignant666 might want to add per his insights into pronunciation that perhaps the t could be silent, but the spelling provides a 't' to the 'was', and thus if was is in the past than a was wast is way back when, or in the procession of things something new, and as a "visible object of worship"....Hey Ritchie @rtc the supposed X in III 22 looks like an ac...(that should get him going!)

And thus I must get going

Enough said, but I am glad that @behemoth for such important contributions and to know that all the predictive programming has been aired on the Simpsons, remember the eLGlamor episode... and that yes the nature of the weave has been explored by others for @john-griffin would confirm where my parallel researches had been going...

93/93

HG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Set-Tetu-Ra
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13/04/2020 6:57 pm  

😀

II,76: 4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y X 24 89 R P S T O V A L

4+6+3+8+1+2+11+2+4+1+12+7+13+15+18+3+25+24+24+89+18+16+19+20+15+22+1+12 = 395

3+9+5 = 17

Set = 1+9+5+2+0 = 17

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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hadgigegenraum
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13/04/2020 7:07 pm  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

😀

II,76: 4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y X 24 89 R P S T O V A L

4+6+3+8+1+2+11+2+4+1+12+7+13+15+18+3+25+24+24+89+18+16+19+20+15+22+1+12 = 395

3+9+5 = 17

Set = 1+9+5+2+0 = 17

And one and seven is


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Set-Tetu-Ra
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13/04/2020 7:08 pm  

@hadgigegenraum

8. So what's the significance of 8?

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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The HGA of a Duck
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13/04/2020 7:46 pm  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

Ohhhh man i had S as 18 and T as 19 instead of 19 and 20

Oh right, I see. I thought maybe you were using some other arrangement of letters/numbers like the "Trigrammaton" arrangement.

Not to worry, we all make these kinds of "Qabalistic typos". I had one with my base 26 "OM" finding, I was getting the word "OP" and only noticed I'd made a typo in my spreadsheet several months later. 😊 

The way you got the letters/numbers confused is actually quite interesting:

In the normal A-Z, 1-26 method "SET" = 19 + 5 + 20 = 44

but in the less common A-Z, 0-25 "SET" = 18 + 4 + 19 = 41

So you accidentally combined both! This could be interpreted to have a deeper meaning related to the Tarot: Aleph has a value of 1 but can also be seen as zero, The Fool.

"My prophet is a fool with his one, one, one; are they not the Ox, and none by the Book?"

 

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

I,46: ... I call it eight, eighty, four hundred & eighteen.
8 80 418

56(Nuit) "divide, add, multiply"
56÷8=7
7+80=87
87×418=36366
3+6+3+6+6=24

 

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

6/50=0.12
0.12+6+50=56.12
56.12(6×50)=56.12×300=16836.00
1+6+8+3+6=24=6

I almost missed these when the page number rolled over but luckily I was browsing over the previous posts. The bit about Set may have been wrong but what you found here is pretty interesting. I appreciate this kind of input as the way you seem to think with numbers is quite different to mine. The numbers you found may have some significance, for example I looked up 16836 and its the "183rd triangular number", which is cool. I take signs like the 33 and 666 to mean that there's probably something going on there though I haven't found it yet.

 

I think the way you got 44 for Set is the way to go. "Repdigits" (repeated digits) are cool, like 22, 666, I take them as "signs" when I'm doing my number stuff. The way you got repdigits for your II:76 solution (777) and Set (44) with the same method (A=1, etc) may show that your doing something right and should continue in the same way.

(also the number 4 looks a bit like the Was sceptre if you look hard enough, though its a bit of a stretch 😛 )


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the_real_simon_iff
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13/04/2020 9:08 pm  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

II,76: 4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y X 24 89 R P S T O V A L

4+6+3+8+1+2+11+2+4+1+12+7+13+15+18+3+25+24+24+89+18+16+19+20+15+22+1+12 = 395

3+9+5 = 17

Set = 1+9+5+2+0 = 17

@set-tetu-ra I guess that's not a fair comparison. The way you counted SET is different from the way you counted THE RIDDLE (or maybe everything is allowed in Gematria, I don't know). Either SET would be 19+5+20=44 (which at least would still be 8) or the Riddle would be 4+6+3+8+1+2+1+1+2+4+1+1+2+7+1+3+1+5+1+8+3+2+5+2+4+2+4+8+9+1+8+1+6+1+9+2+0+1+5+2+2+1+1+2=132

But I guess I was right the first time, everything is allowed.

My full name by the way is also 8!

Love=Law

Lutz


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the_real_simon_iff
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13/04/2020 9:20 pm  
Posted by: @duck
 
title01

@duck You forgot your most important discovery, which is existential to all trying to solve the riddle: you all have your gematria wrong: Look at the picture again: U=N, yes that's right, 21=14

grafik

You are welcome...

Love=Law

Lutz


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Jamie J Barter
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14/04/2020 12:55 am  
Posted by: @duck

I put the "physical" centre in red (midpoint from edge to edge) and the "esthetic" centre in green (passing through the centre of "Hadit" )

Thank you for this, duck: most thoughtful of you.

Um... no further comment necessary on my part, I think...

N Joy


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The HGA of a Duck
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14/04/2020 4:46 am  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

😀

II,76: 4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y X 24 89 R P S T O V A L

4+6+3+8+1+2+11+2+4+1+12+7+13+15+18+3+25+24+24+89+18+16+19+20+15+22+1+12 = 395

Also with 395: 39 + 5 = ? 😊 

 

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

So what's the significance of 8?

44: 4 something 4?

17: 1 something 7? 😊

 

Also this one (a bit of a stretch):

395: 3 x 9 x 5 = 135

reversed: 531

531 + 135 = 666 🙂 

 

Posted by: @duck

the number 4 looks a bit like the Was sceptre

Actually, the number 7 looks more like the Was (777) and the number 44 looks like the two ears of Set! Once you start seeing these coincidences they don't stop! 🤣 


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The HGA of a Duck
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14/04/2020 5:56 am  

I should really go to sleep but I thought this one was too good not to post now 😊 :

Set = 44 (using A=1 etc)

Set = שט (as XX + XI) = 31

31 reversed = 13

31 + 13 = 44

44 - 31 = 13

 

Yep, it looks like there might be something going on here.


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The HGA of a Duck
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17/04/2020 2:55 am  

I don't want to turn this thread into my own blog but I found another fun one. While looking at the cipher, the A and B of "ABK" are joined together. This suggests that when you change them to numbers they could be counted together as a number like the brackets around the "24" and "89". Changing the A and B into numbers gives 1 and 2, and these joined gives 12 instead of 1 + 2. Try adding the numbers up again in this way, you might find it relevant to the numbers already found. 🙂 

cipher ab

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the_real_simon_iff
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17/04/2020 4:34 pm  
Posted by: @duck

This suggests that when you change them to numbers they could be counted together as a number like the brackets around the "24" and "89".

@duck "This suggests" might be a little rashly. And wouldn't that mean that all the other letters of Liber AL that are conjoined (like most of them during "normal" script) must be counted this way?


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The HGA of a Duck
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17/04/2020 5:44 pm  

@the_real_simon_iff

This was an example for just the cipher, those are the only conjoined letters in it. I have got some results that are meaningful by "cheating" with the cipher in this way, for example counting the "24" as "2+4". These different methods of viewing the cipher are like the "blind men and the elephant" story to me. I don't know if there is one final answer to it but its fun messing around and seeing what comes up.

Counting the rest of AL like you suggested would sometimes produce some pretty big and "unwieldy" numbers, but some of the results might be cool. Here "Had" (8, 1, 4) becomes "814" instead of 8 + 1 + 4 = 13. That example is interesting as 814 is 418 backwards! (right there in the first word of AL).

Its similar to my method of analysing words with base 26 (where the word "word" becomes "396581" for example). I use A = 0 for this because it makes more sense mathematically to me, when doing sums it can be useful to have a zero.


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the_real_simon_iff
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18/04/2020 5:54 pm  

Hello Lastalians!

 

What is your opinion on the "line"? Was it

a) drawn before the writing on the empty page?

b) drawn after the writing?

c) at the same time? (meaning, he wrote the sentence "then this line drawn etc." and immediately drew the line)

d) is it on the front of the page?

e) or does it shine through from the back of the page?

 

Just curious.

Thanks

 

Love=Law

Lutz


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The HGA of a Duck
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18/04/2020 7:16 pm  

@the_real_simon_iff

@wizardiaoan suggested this book recently: Liber AL: An Examination

From his post:

They were allowed to scrutinize the original manuscript and wrote a very detailed analysis of all the punctuation, whether it was in pencil or not, etc.

 

A fascinating factoid from the link above:

The line was apparently written from the bottom up!

 

My answers to your questions (based on what seems more likely to me, not actual evidence):

c) and d)


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the_real_simon_iff
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18/04/2020 7:42 pm  

@duck Thanks for your answer. Sure I know the book, I played a mini-mini-mini-minor part in parts of its birth. It's very worth a read for those who are interested in the differences between the manuscript and the various printed edition.


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The HGA of a Duck
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18/04/2020 7:46 pm  
Posted by: @duck

Changing the A and B into numbers gives 1 and 2, and these joined gives 12 instead of 1 + 2. Try adding the numbers up again in this way, you might find it relevant to the numbers already found. 🙂 

cipher ab

I knew that number had come up before. I went over some old posts and found it:

https://www.lashtal.com/forums/postid/104217/

 

I noticed that old post also came up with the number 38, that's one of the numbers I look out for:

3 + 8 = 11

38 x 11 = 🙂 

 

This number 404 came up when I was messing around with the cipher. It decodes to a significant short word, I'll try to make a post about it soon. My "research" doesn't concentrate on Set but this one had a nice Set-related "side effect" so I posted it here.

Also with 404: 40 + 4 = 44


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Shiva
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18/04/2020 7:53 pm  
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

What is your opinion on the "line"?

You have cited several possibilities. Others may exist, but you seem to have covered the basis bases. I have always had the vision of the line being scrawled after he wrote "this line."

 

But this is merely a defect of my mind, which surely has warped my brain cells, so that I must admit that ANY of your proposals are potentially valid and true. We will have to mount an expedition of seven hardy souls, with camels, and journey to RTC's shire and ask him, at gunpoint if necessary, to reveal the truth, and the proof, of the matter.


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herupakraath
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19/04/2020 3:20 pm  

The letters intersected by the line on page 60 of the holograph are STBETISAYFA: when enumerated with the Tri-key gematria system, the value of the letters is 79, the enumeration of Ra-Hoor-Khuit, thus indicating the line serves as a divine fingerprint. The other purpose of the line is to intersect rows of text that contain 52 words; compare this to verse II:39 which has 52 letters, and verse II:76 which consists of 52 words: all three verses reference the child foretold, with 52 consisting the enumeration of Tim Moss.

The phrase CIRCLE SQUARED contains 13 letters; when squared, a circle with a radius of 13 units will produce a square with a perimeter that measures 92 units, with 92 consisting of the gematria value of ABRAHADABRA. A circle with a diameter of 13 units, will have area that measures 132, the enumeration of CIRCLE SQUARED, and the value of CHILD OF THE PROPHET.

Adding the month, day, and the last two digits of the year I was born, results in 92, the enumeration of ABRAHADABRA: It shall be his child, & that strangely.

Have a nice day. 😀 

 

 


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Set-Tetu-Ra
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19/04/2020 4:20 pm  

@herupakraath

Same objections: why choose something more complicated when the solution is supposed to be simple? Why make it personal when it's supposed to be universal? 

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass


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Shiva
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19/04/2020 5:18 pm  
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

why choose something more complicated when the solution is supposed to be simple? Why make it personal when it's supposed to be universal? 

It's supposed to be simple because AC said so, and some of us prefer to accept that quality, because otherwise there might be headaches or upset stomachs.

We have no basis for it being "impersonal," so I guess it's okay for someone's name to turn up, but it really needs to be couched in a context that self-verifies the message and the messenger.

Any "reasonable doubt," just like in court, won't cut it in the simplicity and self-explanatory departments.

 


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the_real_simon_iff
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19/04/2020 10:09 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath

The other purpose of the line is to intersect rows of text that contain 52 words; compare this to verse II:39 which has 52 letters, and verse II:76 which consists of 52 words: all three verses reference the child foretold, with 52 consisting the enumeration of Tim Moss.

Adding the month, day, and the last two digits of the year I was born, results in 92

Would you care to explain what rows of text you mean? I find no meaningful way of counting 52 words. Thanks.

Would you care to explain why the riddle is not counted when counting the words of II:76? Thanks.

While it is true that II:39 contains 52 letter (you probably searched for it), why is it that no other of the verses that reference the prophet or the chosen one have avnything to do with 52? And there are a lot of those. Thanks.

Would you care to explain why the first two digits of your birth year are unimportant? I mean, the Aeon is rather long. Thanks.

Thanks again

Lutz


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the_real_simon_iff
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19/04/2020 10:34 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath

The other purpose of the line is to intersect rows of text that contain 52 words; compare this to verse II:39 which has 52 letters, and verse II:76 which consists of 52 words: all three verses reference the child foretold, with 52 consisting the enumeration of Tim Moss.

Adding the month, day, and the last two digits of the year I was born, results in 92

@herupakraath Would you care to explain what rows of text you mean? I find no meaningful way of counting 52 words. Thanks.

Would you care to explain why the riddle is not counted when counting the words of II:76? Thanks.

While it is true that II:39 contains 52 letter (you probably searched for it), why is it that no other of the verses that reference the prophet or the chosen one have avnything to do with 52? And there are a lot of those. Thanks.

Would you care to explain why the first two digits of your birth year are unimportant? I mean, the Aeon is rather long. Thanks.

Thanks again

Lutz

Edit: sorry for the double post, don't know what happened.


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herupakraath
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19/04/2020 11:31 pm  
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Would you care to explain what rows of text you mean? I find no meaningful way of counting 52 words. Thanks.

There are seven rows of text intersected by the line, that contain a total of 52 words. You're welcome.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Would you care to explain why the riddle is not counted when counting the words of II:76? Thanks.

Because there are no words in the riddle. You're welcome.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

why is it that no other of the verses that reference the prophet or the chosen one have avnything to do with 52? And there are a lot of those. Thanks.

There are only two instances of the phrase chosen one in the text; the first is II:65, where it appears as Holy Chosen One in caps, which obviously addresses Crowley, while second instance is in verse II:76, and addresses the person who is to solve the puzzle. You're welcome.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Would you care to explain why the first two digits of your birth year are unimportant? I mean, the Aeon is rather long. Thanks.

Unimportant, or unnecessary? XX-XX-XX is the format I have used for conveying my birth date since I was first required to do so, along with everyone else in the USA. Unless you can muster a convincing argument that such an expression is invalid, your point is moot. You're welcome.


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the_real_simon_iff
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19/04/2020 11:36 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath

There are seven rows of text intersected by the line, that contain a total of 52 words. You're welcome.

@herupakraath Well, I count 54, even 56 when all that are touched count. Just saying. Can you elaborate. Thanks.

 


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the_real_simon_iff
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19/04/2020 11:40 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath

There are only two instances of the phrase chosen one in the text; the first is II:65, where it appears as Holy Chosen One in caps, which obviously addresses Crowley, while second instance is in verse II:76, and addresses the person who is to solve the puzzle. You're welcome.

But in the rather boring example of II:39 we don't find the chosen one, only the prophet, So let's not talk abot the chosen one, but the prophet who is mentioned MANY times. II:37 is nearly the same and only has only 48 letters. How come?


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the_real_simon_iff
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19/04/2020 11:44 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath

XX-XX-XX is the format I have used for conveying my birth date since I was first required to do so, along with everyone else in the USA. Unless you can muster a convincing argument that such an expression is invalid, your point is moot. You're welcome.

You can relax, with everyone else in the USA. I was just asking. How about asking some of your folks over there what happened on 04-10-04? My point is as moot as yours...

 


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Jamie J Barter
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19/04/2020 11:59 pm  
Posted by: @herupakraath

XX-XX-XX is the format I have used for conveying my birth date since I was first required to do so, along with everyone else in the USA. Unless you can muster a convincing argument that such an expression is invalid, your point is moot. You're welcome.

But I thought Lutz had already previously done so, viz:

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Would you care to explain why the first two digits of your birth year are unimportant? I mean, the Aeon is rather long. Thanks.

As in, if the Aeon is (roughly) two thousand plus years long, you'd have at least twenty different centuries from among which "the chosen one" - or however you want to call him/her - might decide to pop up.

"You're welcome", as well!

N Joy


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ignant666
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20/04/2020 12:28 am  

As an American who has also been "conveying my birth date since I was first required to do so, along with everyone else in the USA" since around 1964, when i was 5, i don't really recall "conveying" it as three sets of two digit numbers. i recall quite often being required to provide a two digit date, and two digit month, but pretty much always ever a four-digit year, and certainly always since about 1995 or so.

In any case, how an American is in the habit of "conveying" his birth date can't possibly have any relevance to how Aiwass and/or AC, both definitely not American, encrypted information into AL.


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the_real_simon_iff
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20/04/2020 12:49 am  
Posted by: @herupakraath

Unless you can muster a convincing argument that such an expression is invalid, your point is moot.

That sums up so finely what this might be about. I have an eye on the eLGMOR thread also. Suddenly it is not YOU (not you personally) who have to show what is valid, but it is US (not me alone) who have to show what is invalid. Nothing is invalid. But there goes your "marked by the most sublime simplicity and immediate conviction" point. As you said: Have a nice day!


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The HGA of a Duck
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20/04/2020 12:53 am  

Just to be annoyingly pedantic: why should we be still be using the "old aeon" dates? This year is year 116 of the New Aeon, 2020 is old aeon reckoning. 😜 


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threefold31
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20/04/2020 1:04 am  
Posted by: @herupakraath

There are only two instances of the phrase chosen one in the text; the first is II:65, where it appears as Holy Chosen One in caps, which obviously addresses Crowley, while second instance is in verse II:76, and addresses the person who is to solve the puzzle. You're welcome.

 

Dwtw

I have always disagreed with this interpretation. There is more reason to think that the phrase 'chosen one' in 2:76 refers to the Scribe and Prophet, not the one who shall 'expound' the Cipher. Partly for the reason you already cited, which is that 'Holy Chosen One' refers to the Prophet, so a shorter form could very well also apply to him.

Also, the phrase occurs in the sentence following the mention of the expounder, as if to say, 'someone else will figure out this Cipher, because you will not know it. BUT "remember o chosen one to be me, to follow the love of Nu, etc" The conjunction points to this sentence being addressed to Crowley, IMO.

 

Litlluw

RTLG


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the_real_simon_iff
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20/04/2020 1:05 am  

@duck Yeah, why? Let's just see what this does to herupakraath's birthday and his "92". But wait, I am sure the gematriamnastics will deliver...


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herupakraath
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20/04/2020 2:18 am  
Posted by: @duck

Just to be annoyingly pedantic:

Success is your proof.

Posted by: @duck

why should we be still be using the "old aeon" dates?

Maybe because 'we' and everyone else have been using such dates all of our lives, and they consist of the system the author of Liber Legis would expect us to be familiar with.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Yeah, why? Let's just see what this does to herupakraath's birthday and his "92".

Boy, he really showed me didn't he?

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

But wait, I am sure the gematriamnastics will deliver...

It's the gift that keeps on giving.

 

 


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herupakraath
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20/04/2020 2:24 am  
Posted by: @threefold31

The conjunction points to this sentence being addressed to Crowley, IMO.

 

The subject, object, and verb that precede the conjunction are: he shall expound it, so I have to disagree with you.

 


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the_real_simon_iff
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20/04/2020 2:41 am  

@herupakraath Well, you haven't answered any of my questions. Only blabla defending yourself. So, no thanks, o chosen one... what's the word? Pathetic? I tend to forget... there are so many of you... byebye!

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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20/04/2020 2:52 am  

Can't we all just agree that we're all the chosen one? 😕 


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Shiva
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20/04/2020 3:08 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

but pretty much always ever a four-digit year, and certainly always since about 1995 or so.

We all got away with typing 97 for 1997 (for example), but The End of the World on Jan 1, 2000 (The 2K Bug) changed that forever, plus the Green Cosmic Day. Fortunately, many brave nerds and geeks reprogrammed the entire digital mess, and the world was saved. Today, when ordering online, I amused to find some Borg processors still allow a two-digit year, and I am amused as it takes me back to yesteryear ... when things were simple.

Any form of Numerology requires all the digits on anyone's Birth Cert (XX-XX-XXXX), regarldless of how anyone "has been doing it." I mean, that's fine and dandy for one's own personal Qabalah, but to enter into an arena where everyone speaks 777, and then to introduce a whole new way of doing the QBL twist is rather bold. And nobody gives a can of Shinola, or less, for such solitary impudence.

I am not speaking of any one person, because their are several cannons loose on the ship's deck right now. I was counting them, but I lost count after seven.

I am not the one to stifle innovation, as long as the innovation proves something to everyone (except those who cannot read).

Nobody is going to pass their 3=8 exam with innovation in any real, regular, regulated lineage. I guess that's why God Crowley Aiwass Adonai created the path of self-initiation.

Posted by: @duck

Just to be annoyingly pedantic: why should we be still be using the "old aeon" dates? This year is year 116 of the New Aeon, 2020 is old aeon reckoning.

Yeah, but the number of people giving the last half of their can of Shinola for New Aeon Date Usage is rather small.

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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20/04/2020 3:23 am  
Posted by: @shiva

Yeah, but the number of people giving the last half of their can of Shinola for New Aeon Date Usage is rather small.

Sadly same same thing could be said for the New Aeon itself.


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threefold31
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20/04/2020 4:18 am  
Posted by: @herupakraath
Posted by: @threefold31

The conjunction points to this sentence being addressed to Crowley, IMO.

 

The subject, object, and verb that precede the conjunction are: he shall expound it, so I have to disagree with you.

 

Dwtw 

My point exactly. The conjunction begins a new sentence.

But whatever, those who need to find their name in the Cipher will have to read it so that they are not only the one to 'expound', but a 'chosen one' to boot. Bonus!

 

Litlluw

RLG


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herupakraath
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20/04/2020 12:24 pm  
Posted by: @threefold31

But whatever, those who need to find their name in the Cipher will have to read it so that they are not only the one to 'expound', but a 'chosen one' to boot. Bonus!

Verse III:47 does imply the identity of the person to discover the Key of it all is indicated with one or more of the keys in the verse, making the topic a valid avenue of research, no matter how it ruffles the feathers of the critic or competitor.

Let's move on to some hard data that shows the Tri-key was known of and used by the author of verse III:47. As I have stated, and will continue to state, the only means for determining the author of Liber Legis inserted a deliberate gematria equation into the text, is to match the gematria value to numbers within the verse, or match it to a count of letters or words. In the case of verse III:47, a mystery of the letters is boldly defined twice--also in the next verse--which deflects any accusations of apophenia on my part.

The line drawn across page 60 of the holograph intersects the letters STBETISAYFA. The gematria value of the letters is 79 when calculated with the Tri-key. Counting the letters intersected by the line, and those letters that appear to the left of the intersected letters, also results in 79, thus verifying the enumeration 79 is correct for STBETISAYFA.

The only means to validate the result produced, is to show it can also be achieved using the other two keys. The use of a single ampersand on a page that alludes to mysteries relating to letters is interesting, and given that an ampersand is technically not a letter, it would suggest it should be left out of any letter counts, while doing so actually defines a purpose for the ampersand. The enumeration of CIRCLE SQUARED is 132: excluding the ampersand, the count of letters that remain on the page beginning with the phrase "circle squared" is 132, which suggests the enumeration of CIRCLE SQUARED was known of by the author verse III:47, as does the area of a circle with a diameter of 13 units, which is also 132, while 13 consists of the count of letters in CIRCLE SQUARED. 

To complete the pattern, a letter count that matches the enumeration of ABRAHADABRA is required. Just as the count of letters that complete the page verifies the correct enumeration of CIRCLE SQUARED, the count of letters that begins the page verifies the enumeration of ABRAHADABRA. Starting with the first word on page 60 of the holograph, and ending at the first period, which completes the first sentence on the page, the count of letters is 92, the enumeration of ABRAHADABRA.

Using the same set of letter values incorporated by the Tri-key, 1-26, only one gematria system in every 20 million generated at random can recreate the enumerations produced with the three keys, which proves the chances of them occurring at random are 1/20 million.


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