"This Line Drawn is...

Clear all

# "This Line Drawn is a Key"

197 Posts
26 Users
79 Likes
7,797 Views
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 2341

Posted by: @herupakraath

Counting the letters intersected by the line, and those letters that appear to the left of the intersected letters, also results in 79, thus verifying the enumeration 79 is correct for STBETISAYFA.

@herupakraath Beside the fact that there is a serious logic problem using the word "verifying" here I wonder why in this case The eight row of words (containing "Circle squared") is counted to "get" the 79 letters, while in the case of the intersected rows you only allow seven rows to be counted to "get" your desired 52.

Is this standard gematrimnastics? Like in leaving out the 19 in your birthdate? Or excluding the standard short for "and" ampersand?

Well, of course I know that nearly all is allowed in Gematria, but this should be without any doubt hyper-convincing, so a little fiddling is not allowed, I would say.

Thanks in advance for clearing things up.

(@david-lemieux)
Member
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 3821

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

"This Line Drawn is a Key"

93!

For the record this is me reworking something I read elsewhere, I did not discover this.

Yeah I guess he was possessed to draw a line  a split second after he heard the words,"this line drawn".   Maybe he added the line later as any line in geometry is inherently infinite and is therefore a key to infinity.  As for that drawing of what looks like a hot-crossed bun and how it relates to the alchemical quest, yeah why not?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline

(@herupakraath)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 639

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

here I wonder why in this case The eight row of words (containing "Circle squared") is counted to "get" the 79?

I am not counting them. If your analytical abilities are that poor, or your zeal to discredit my work keeps you from making a simple observation, there's little I can do to assist you. The counts reported were not only made by hand multiple times, but also using software to insure their accuracy.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

while in the case of the intersected rows you only allow seven rows to be counted to "get" your desired 52.

The are seven rows intersected by the line, hence the act of counting seven rows. You are inventing arbitrary conditions where none exist.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Or excluding the standard short for "and" ampersand?

An ampersand is not a letter: the verse states nothing about a mystery relating to ampersands.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Well, of course I know that nearly all is allowed in Gematria, but this should be without any doubt hyper-convincing, so a little fiddling is not allowed, I would say

Your complaints having nothing to do with gematria, but the letter counts; you have to move past latter before you can broach the former. The only fiddling at work is in your mind.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Thanks in advance for clearing things up.

You're welcome.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 2341

Posted by: @herupakraath

I am not counting them. If your analytical abilities are that poor, or your zeal to discredit my work keeps you from making a simple observation, there's little I can do to assist you. The counts reported were not only made by hand multiple times, but also using software to insure their accuracy.

@herupakraath So your answer to the question why you use 8 rows to get a result and only 7 rows is I am using the word "counting" incorrectly? Nobody said you were counting incorrectly. You were just counting different numbers of rows intersected by the line. And I wanted to know why.

So please, I can count myself, your sums are correct, but why 7 rows only in one instance and then 8 rows in another instance?

Don't you think your claim to be the chosen one has to be tested heavily?

Edit: I didn't know that your post would be edited. But still then I don't see an answer to why count 8 rows of words left from the line to get your desired 79 letters. You answered the seven rows thing a few posts earlier.

(@soz)
Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 105

Is it clear that the person who expounds upon the meaning of II:76 (in general, I don't mean to specifically refer to anyone who posts in the thread) is the same person referred to in verse I:55?

I think it's well pointed out (previously) that the only direct references to a "chosen one" in Liber Legis are addressed to its recipient (in verses I:15, II:53, II:65 and II:76).

And I have another general and unrelated question that seems to come up again and again in attempts to find the meaning of verse II:76 (as well as my opinion that "the more the merrier"!), and so on: When does it make sense to transliterate the English letter "S" to Shin (300), and when does it make sense to transliterate it to Samekh (60)?

Duck reacted
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 7764

Posted by: @soz

: When does it make sense to transliterate the English letter "S" to Shin (300), and when does it make sense to transliterate it to Samekh (60)?

I use Sh when the sound of the word is Sh. Like in LAShTAL or Shiva, or Shinola. The 60 is for S sounds that don't sound like Sh. like Sun or Serpent or Silly. If a C were to sound like a S, as in Cereal, I would use the 60 model.

.

(@herupakraath)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 639

Posted by: @shiva

I use Sh when the sound of the word is Sh. Like in LAShTAL or Shiva, or Shinola. The 60 is for S sounds that don't sound like Sh. like Sun or Serpent or Silly. If a C were to sound like a S, as in Cereal, I would use the 60 model.

The phonetic approach in other words. The problem is with other combinations of letters such as Pe, He, or Ch. Do we count the word PEA as the value of the letter Pe, or should we also calculate the letters E and A as separate values? Native speakers of Hebrew will tell you that Cheth is actually Heth, and should have an H sound instead of a K sound. There are also phonemes in the English language that are not found in Hebrew, such as  F or J. There is also an issue with counting the letter A as Aleph, or the letter I as Yod: the sounds are not the same. The only way to have a working system is to use a combination of phonetics and graphic similarity, which is arbitrary to the least.

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 7764

Posted by: @herupakraath

The phonetic approach in other words.

Precisely.

Posted by: @herupakraath

The problem is ...

I have no problem with this approach. The purpose of QBL is to Order One's Lower Mind. This approach has worked for me for 55 years. I have gone to great lengths to indicate "I," that this is my approach. Every initiate has to build their own QBL. I did that a long time ago.

I am not telling Soz what to do. I am telling Soz what I do.

Posted by: @herupakraath

There are also phonemes in the English language that are not found in Hebrew

But I don't care about that. I have an approach that works for me, and when a wave of clarity rolls over me, I do not have trouble with my concrete mind kicking up.

I am, of course, discussing the philosophy, or practical application, of QBL, while you are splitting hairs over the details.

Practical Application means the computer doesn't start to flicker or invert letters. It does ot mean solving puzzles.

(@herupakraath)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 639

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

why count 8 rows of words left from the line to get your desired 79 letters. You answered the seven rows thing a few posts earlier.

There are seven rows of words intersected by the line: those are the only rows that contribute to the count of 79 letters. The letters in bold print are intersected by the line:

chance s
position t
that no Be
not seek to t
him whence I say
discover the key of
this line drawn is a

STBETISAYFA = 79

Duck reacted
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 2341

Posted by: @herupakraath
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

why count 8 rows of words left from the line to get your desired 79 letters. You answered the seven rows thing a few posts earlier.

There are seven rows of words intersected by the line: those are the only rows that contribute to the count of 79 letters. The letters in bold print are intersected by the line:

chance s
position t
that no Be
not seek to t
him whence I say
discover the key of
this line drawn is a

STBETISAYFA = 79

@herupakraath THANK you, but I think - maybe it is the laguage barrier - that you don't get what I am saying, or you don't want to. I can count myself and you explained before. Now: when you probably very much like to get the same result in your "left of the line" example, you allow one row more:

chance

position

that no

not seek to

him, whence

discover the Key

this line drawn is

circle squared

Eight rows. So: WHY IS THAT?

Joined: 53 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter
Posted by: @herupakraath
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

why count 8 rows of words left from the line to get your desired 79 letters. You answered the seven rows thing a few posts earlier.

There are seven rows of words intersected by the line: those are the only rows that contribute to the count of 79 letters. The letters in bold print are intersected by the line:

chance s
position t
that no Be
not seek to t
him whence I say
discover the key of
this line drawn is a

STBETISAYFA = 79

Imo the h comes with the first s. They exist as one.

(@herupakraath)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 639

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

Imo the h comes with the first s. They exist as one.

The 'h' is not intersected by the line.

(@herupakraath)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 639

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Eight rows. So: WHY IS THAT?

Joined: 53 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter
Posted by: @herupakraath
Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

Imo the h comes with the first s. They exist as one.

The 'h' is not intersected by the line.

The s and h are one, both necessary for the word.

Joined: 53 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter

Just learned "Thebes" or Waset means "City of the Was [Scepter]".

AL I:5

Duck reacted
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 20 years ago
Posts: 2341

Posted by: @herupakraath
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Eight rows. So: WHY IS THAT?

Yeah, I thought so. Happy counting, o chosen one.

(@herupakraath)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 639

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Yeah, I thought so. Happy counting, o chosen one.

I make no mention of eight rows, thus I have not a clue of what you mean. Yes, obviously the phrase circle squared appears in the eighth row--what is your point?

(@soz)
Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 105

It's the letters that are intersected by the drawn line, not the number of rows that the line crosses, right?

What's the justification for enumerating the letter "S" as though it were the Hebrew letter Shin (instead of Samekh)?

Joined: 53 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter

@soz

The grid was added far later and is irrelevant to the riddle imo. I see the S and h as attached, in 2=0 form. Sh is shin specifically.

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

I can see how you could get Sh if you were counting phonetically using Hebrew letters (there's been discussion on this recently), but can you go into more detail on how its "in 2=0 form"?

Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 762

@set-tetu-ra

Yes i am glad that someone has finally made the connection that is actually quite relevant, but now back to the discussion of how many lines there are in a line or whatever is being discussed....

Joined: 53 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter
Posted by: @duck

I can see how you could get Sh if you were counting phonetically using Hebrew letters (there's been discussion on this recently), but can you go into more detail on how its "in 2=0 form"?

S/h would be duality, Sh is unity.

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

Interesting. I see that the letter "Shin" can be used for "S" as well as "Sh" (my Hebrew knowledge is pretty limited) so it makes sense that way too, and this is closer to the English pronunciation of "Set".

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

Posted by: @herupakraath

chance s
position t
that no Be
not seek to t
him whence I say
discover the key of
this line drawn is a

This is actually pretty cool, I hadn't looked at this before. It has 24 total words (including partial words), 16 not intersected and 8 intersected. Don't know if that means anything, though 24 comes up in the cipher.

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

S(h)t = SET = שׁט = atu XX + atu XI = 31

I applied this method to the rest of the letters, using the Thoth deck arrangement:

Alef = 0
Bet = 1
Gimel = 2
Dalet = 3
Vav = 5
Zayen = 6
Het = 7
Lamed = 8
Yod = 9
Kaf = 10
Tet = 11
Mem = 12
Nun = 13
Samekh = 14
Ayin = 15
Pe = 16
He = 17
Qof = 18
Resh = 19
Shin = 20
Tav = 21

I then had a look at what we get for "stbetisayfa"

using the same letters as earlier: 114

That number doesn't mean much but by changing the second Shin to a Samekh: 108

That number has come up before and seems to be a significant number for example in Hinduism. Also we can separate it as before (st and betisayfa) to get 31 and 77 (repdigits and a mini 777 perhaps?).

Anyway, it gives you another way to play around with numbers/letters but you might want to double check the figures in case I made a mistake somewhere. I messed around with "quirky" spellings of Set and got one for 44, I can't remember how I got there but I think I had to use a Yod for the "E". 😊

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

An update on the number 108, its actually pretty cool:

Sun distance from Earth = 150.51 million km

Sun diameter = 1.3927 million km

150.51 / 1.3927 = 108.07065

Oh, and this was my quirky spelling of Set for 44: Samekh Yod Tav (yeah, the yod is a bit of a cheat but it sort of works).

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

28 glyphs (cipher) + 80 squares (grid page) = 108 🤔

(@michael-staley)
The Funambulatory Way - it's All in the Egg
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 4378

Posted by: @duck

150.51 / 1.3927 = 108.07065

" . . . but there is that which remains"

Duck and christibrany reacted
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 7764

Posted by: @duck

.07065

MS: " . . . but there is that which remains"

.07065. And to the fifth decimal place. It's really hard to just get a single prime number once the Borg gets ahold of it. It has to do with some Malkuthian Maxim about nothing being equal to nothing else.

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

Still, its pretty close and consider the ancient Indians might have been aware of this though I don't know how they could have figured it out apart from "intuitively" or "psychically".

These have also been claimed as 108, but I checked them and they're a bit off:

Diam. of Sun / Diam. of Earth in km:

1391400 / 12742 = 109.197928

Moon avg. distance / Moon diam.

384400 / 3474 = 110.65

@shiva Do you have any opinion the numbers that have come up, 108 and 114, seeing as you seem to be the closest thing to a Hindu on these forums?

My other post on 108/114:

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 7764

Posted by: @duck

Still, its pretty close

"Pretty close" has been filed under the "A miss is as close as a mile (2 km)" label in the "Failed to Provide Factual Evidence" drawer.

I have no Hinds in my family tree. Other inquiries are denied.

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

@shiva

Thanks for that very Pharasaical answer.

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

I left the decimal plces in for accuracy, I could have just rounded it up to 108.1 which actually "sounds" less. Anyway the Sun/Earth stuff wasn't really important, I just thought that finding 108/114 in the Grid Page was interesting and thought I'd ask as 108 is significant (and 114 but less so) in Hinduism. We could also see the "Circle squared" as ambiguously a symbol for the Sun or Earth which also gives a resonance with 108. This could be further developed into a solution to the Grid page by someone if it makes sense to them, they're welcome to it.

A couple more Set-related resonances:

Set (using the Atu numbers) = Samekh Tet = 25

reversed = 52

S E T H (using English A=1) = 19+5+20+8 = 52

reversed = 25

25 + 52 = 77

This number came up earlier as 108 - 31.

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 7764

Posted by: @duck

I left the decimal plces in for accuracy, I could have just rounded it ...

Do you realize that RTC is facing the death penalty, on some other poorly chosen island, for things like you are contemplating out loud?

(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4390

Hey, could you do me a favor?

Back when there were phone books, and having an unlisted number was expensive, folks would list their phone under fake names ("It's in my room-mate's name, but i'll pay the deposit"). My drug-dealing phone was listed to "Bill Payer".

There was a person who listed his phone in Manhattan under "Rudolph von Eggcream", who all '70-'80s NYC teenagers prank-called so often i wonder he didn't change it.

Can you please let us know the numerological significance of this name, which i am certain will reveal huge cosmic significance, if subjected to the usual methods?

(@frater_anubis)
Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 242

Posted by: @ignant666

My drug-dealing phone was listed to "Bill Payer".

Carefull!!

Dontcha know that the Feds and GCHQ monitor this site? Remember what happened to Jack Parsons!

93

Johnny

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

@shiva

Oh I forgot, Shiva has 108.07065412508077834422345085087 prayer beads round his neck not 108, how silly of me! 😊

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

Posted by: @ignant666

which i am certain will reveal huge cosmic significance

In the most simple method, "Serial English" (A-Z 1-26):

Rudolph von Eggcream = 204

which is the 8th "square pyramidal number" which is like this stack of cannonballs but eight layers:

From what I can tell, 204 is possibly the number of courses of stone of the Great Pyramid if the capstone was counted as 1 layer. This would make sense if the ancients had been aware of square pyramidal numbers and may have considered 204 as important in some way.

Oh, and the Pyramid of Menkaure is 204 ft high (what remains of it).

(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4390

Ooh, and 2+0+4= 6.

Atu VI, the Lovers, symbolizes Hermetic Marriage, the IX gobbling up of the "egg cream"; with "von" signifying Nobility.

So, far from the cranky Upper East Side elderly gay man who liked to yell at teenagers on the phone that he appeared to be to the vulgar, Mr. von Eggcream was a terrestrial avatar of the Chymical Marriage of Christian Rosenkreutz, and Egyptian pyramid-wisdom.

I am sure all the other typical methods will be equally revelatory, do, please, tell me more...

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

I think the Hebrew QBL should be left for Shiva as that seems to be his speciality.

Some experimental base 26 analysis:

Rudolph von Eggcream = 5490820537 14573 34053239076

These numbers are too large and incomprehensible, so we can add them all up and convert them back:

39544074186 = EYAGGLEG

I don't know what that means but its sort of partly recognizable.

(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4390

So i will try my hand at Hebrew gematria for the first time in decades:

Rudolph von Eggcream =   רדלו ון יגקרם

(Resh + Daleth + Lamed+ Vav) + (Vav +Nun final) + (Yod +Gimel + Qof +Resh+Mem final) =

(200+4+30+6) +(6+700)+(10+3+100+200+600) = 1,859

1+8+5+9 = 23

Need i say more? "Paging Captain Clark!"

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

Are you feeling alright today? 🤨 A sudden interest in something as obscure as numerology could be a sign of some neurological condition.

(@thearthuremerson)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 44

Posted by: @ignant666
So i will try my hand at Hebrew gematria for the first time in decades:

Rudolph von Eggcream =   רדלו ון יגקרם

(Resh + Daleth + Lamed+ Vav) + (Vav +Nun final) + (Yod +Gimel + Qof +Resh+Mem final) =

(200+4+30+6) +(6+700)+(10+3+100+200+600) = 1,859

1+8+5+9 = 23

Need i say more? "Paging Captain Clark!"

"And everything really follows the Fives' law?" Joe asked.

"More than you guess," Dillinger remarked blandly.

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 7764

Posted by: @frater_anubis

Dontcha know that the Feds and GCHQ monitor this site?

Past tense, past the "statue" of limitations confinement. As Captain Frater Taurus, LAPD, told me, "You can say whatever you want. They can't touch you."

Since C.F. Taurus was the one who actually "touched" people, he can be trusted as a defensive source.

Posted by: @duck

Rudolph von Eggcream = 204

2+0+4 = 6. It's that 6 again. Six feet (2m). If the errant "R" shows up, we'll know you're onto the ultimate key of the unsolvable mystery.

Posted by: @duck

I think the Hebrew QBL should be left for Shiva as that seems to be his speciality.

actually, and in truth, I specialize in the 1-9 system. "Special-eyes" means that's the system I use when wandering the hallowed halls of WalMart or counting the weeds in the garden. Ignant and I have both applied this ultra-practical, kindergarten method and come up with the same number ... which means it must be true.

Posted by: @duck

I don't know what that means but its sort of partly recognizable.

Nothing can be left over as "remains." Full recognition is required for celestial navigation and wordly confirmation. Rounding up or down is forbidden, except for the IRS.

Posted by: @ignant666

1+8+5+9 = 23

Oh, Lordy and the Leviathons!  Now you've really done it. Quickly. Hide the 23 by reducing it to a Five and call it a Star.

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

@shiva

Yes and pi = 3 of course. Say a big prayer when you get to the 0.07065412508077834422345085087 of a prayer bead. 😛

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

Oh, and the distance of the Sun from Earth varies with the Earth's orbit from 147.1 million km to 152.1 million km so at some point in the year the figure is exactly 108. The same is also true for the Moon at some point in its orbit.

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

Another spelling of Was is Waas: 23 + 1 + 1 + 19 = ?

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 7764

Posted by: @duck

Another spelling of Was is Waas: 23 + 1 + 1 + 19 = ?

= 10 = 1.

Bingo. Go directly to Zero. Your liberation is complete. Your obituary will run sometime next week.

Now, if you were a good Jewish boy, you would ...

W A'A S  6 + 70 + 60 = 136 = 10 = 1.

Or a Sabra might try ...

WAAS  6 + 1 + 1 + 60 = 68 (which I know nothing about)

Book of Lies says ...

[68] "Sail I not toward LAYLAH within seven days?"

Oh, oh. Here comes trouble. He thinks he's going to get Laylah back. But we know, from looking in the rear-view mirror, and by reading the rest of Lies, and Confessions, that he's lost the girl and clutching at broken yarrow stalks.

Perdurabo continues in Lies ...

"The author laments the failure of his mission to mankind, but comforts himself with the following reflections:
(1) He enjoys the advantages of solitude.
(2) Previous
prophets encountered similar difficulties in convincing their hearers.
(3) Their food was not equal to
that obtainable at Rumpelmayer's.
(4) In a few days
I am going to rejoin Laylah.
(5) My mission will
succeed soon enough.
(6) Death will remove the
nuisance of success."

Sepher Sephiroth lists (among others) ...

[68]  "To be wise," "Emptiness."

Those are both good omens, but we have to admit the girl is lost, and this numeration is found wanting.

After all, Sabras make fun of the quaint orothodery and Qabalism.

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 718

Thanks for that analysis. I was mainly leaving that there for @set-tetu-ra to find in case he wanted to use the alternative spelling "Waas" for devotional purposes (its less common but I have seen it in a few places):

S + E + T   = 19 + 5 + 20 = 44

W+A+A+S =  23 + 1 + 1 + 19 = 44

Joined: 53 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter
Posted by: @duck

Another spelling of Was is Waas: 23 + 1 + 1 + 19 = ?

Someone I was talking to stated this is the new accepted way of understanding the word. No idea if its true but its cool. Still doesn't mean Crowley didn't hear "I, Waas."

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 7764

Posted by: @set-tetu-ra

Someone I was talking to stated this is the new accepted way ...

But how can we trust this "someone?"

Please submit "someone's" birth date, time, place, credit card number with security code.

Page 3 / 4
Share: