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# To all the Solvers of the Riddle of AL: what are you going to do with it?

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(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4944
13/04/2020 11:02 pm
Posted by: @dom

No problem, we can maybe catch a game of lower division soccer when you're over here too.

Consider sport. No thank you. (Sticks nose up in the air). I don't do no sport.

(@threefold31)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 429
13/04/2020 11:09 pm
Posted by: @elitemachinery

The cipher, and any explanation, can only work in a larger context or puzzle. Alone it means nothing. If the aspirant can paint a picture using other pieces; an almost complete picture that purposely leaves the cipher piece out..

..and this picture makes sense and paints a convincing portrait without the cipher piece, then the cipher piece will be the final confirmation direct from the 'Holy Book' that this is the correct explanation.

Without this final piece. The picture would be incomplete. By itself it offers nothing.

In this scenario, you must work a lot harder. It's not the short path. But i think it is the correct way to proceed.

Dwtw

Sounds like a description of the Trigrammaton Qabalah approach. The Cipher encodes the precise value of the contents of Liber CCXX, in two separate ways. The math is simple and unquestionable.

No finding my name, or anyone else's in it. No need to, since the letters were attributed to the trigrams by the Prophet, not by me.

This does not need to be the one and only solution, but it confirms the TQ gematria quite directly, without all the contortions and cherry picking required to find one's name in it.

The only names it indicates are:

the 9 numbers = 143 = The Book of the Law

the 19 letters = 208 = Nuit + Hadit + Ra-hoor-khuit.

I'll take those names over the names of the alleged 'solvers' any day.

Litlluw

RLG

(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2301
13/04/2020 11:11 pm
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff
Posted by: @dom

Whoa, someone isn't handling isolation too well.

C'mon, trying to suck people over to one's own thread has a bit of a desperate and pathetic sound to it, hasn't it? No offense. The only thing you are right with is that I wouldn't be so much online without the isolation. Haven't felt compelled to check out McKenna so far, but maybe I will some time.

It's a more interesting thread.  That was my point and with no desperation involved.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline

(@threefold31)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 429
13/04/2020 11:11 pm
Posted by: @elitemachinery

The cipher, and any explanation, can only work in a larger context or puzzle. Alone it means nothing. If the aspirant can paint a picture using other pieces; an almost complete picture that purposely leaves the cipher piece out..

..and this picture makes sense and paints a convincing portrait without the cipher piece, then the cipher piece will be the final confirmation direct from the 'Holy Book' that this is the correct explanation.

Without this final piece. The picture would be incomplete. By itself it offers nothing.

In this scenario, you must work a lot harder. It's not the short path. But i think it is the correct way to proceed.

Dwtw

Sounds like a description of the Trigrammaton Qabalah approach. The Cipher encodes the precise value of the contents of Liber CCXX, in two separate ways. The math is simple and unquestionable.

No finding my name, or anyone else's in it. No need to, since the letters were attributed to the trigrams by the Prophet, not by me.

This does not need to be the one and only solution, but it confirms the TQ gematria quite directly, without all the contortions and cherry picking required to find one's name in it.

The only names it indicates are:

the 9 numbers = 143 = The Book of the Law

the 19 letters = 208 = Nuit + Hadit + Ra-hoor-khuit.

I'll take those names over the names of the alleged 'solvers' any day.

Litlluw

RLG

(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 1836
13/04/2020 11:15 pm
Posted by: @dom

It's a more interesting thread.  That was my point.    No desperation.

Bad choice of words maybe from my side, sorry. But still, the riddle depending on taste?

(@dom)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2301
13/04/2020 11:31 pm
Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff
Posted by: @dom

It's a more interesting thread.  That was my point.    No desperation.

Bad choice of words maybe from my side, sorry. But still, the riddle depending on taste?

Yes.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 624
14/04/2020 1:26 am

@threefold31

I may have posted this before: The "brackets" around "24" and "89" could be considered as "blinds" and one or both could be read as digits instead of numbers. I experimented with the Trigrammaton arrangement and by considering the first number a blind this gives 333 (351 - 24 + 2 + 4). I find it significant and it may be telling us something. What do you make of it?

(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 505
14/04/2020 3:12 am
Posted by: @threefold31

Dwtw

Sounds like a description of the Trigrammaton Qabalah approach. The Cipher encodes the precise value of the contents of Liber CCXX, in two separate ways. The math is simple and unquestionable.

I don't think you understand. What I am suggesting is that if you or any other solver can forget about the cipher (Rubik's cube) for a moment and try to see the big picture (this is not about solving a puzzle or getting a job..it's about serving the needs of the big boss and his company.)

If you can then without discussing or referencing the cipher paint me a picture that includes every piece of the puzzle leaving only the cipher piece out, then the cipher piece of the puzzle becomes the final verification, direct from the "holy book" that this is the correct solution.

The need to solve the cipher and win the prize is a fast track shortcut to failure. It's proves nothing. And most certainly does not impress the big boss (Aiwass.)

What it does do is present a public demonstration of drunk buffoonery at the expense of all those who participate.

Posted by: @duck

I may have posted this before: The "brackets" around "24" and "89" could be considered as "blinds" and one or both could be read as digits instead of numbers. I experimented with the Trigrammaton arrangement and by considering the first number a blind this gives 333 (351 - 24 + 2 + 4). I find it significant and it may be telling us something. What do you make of it?

Oh boy. I think i'm wasting my breath.

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 624
14/04/2020 3:57 am
Posted by: @elitemachinery

Oh boy. I think i'm wasting my breath.

😊 Don't worry, I did read your post and it was thought-provoking. I appreciate hearing completely different takes on that bloody cipher and yours was a refreshing approach. My reply wasn't in relation to your post but a sort of "notice me senpai" to @threefold31 as his work was influential when I was a QBL noob. 😊

I admit I'm a bit of a Cipher geek, its become a sort of obsessive hobby of mine in the last year or so.

(@threefold31)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 429
14/04/2020 4:30 am
Posted by: @duck

@threefold31

I may have posted this before: The "brackets" around "24" and "89" could be considered as "blinds" and one or both could be read as digits instead of numbers. I experimented with the Trigrammaton arrangement and by considering the first number a blind this gives 333 (351 - 24 + 2 + 4). I find it significant and it may be telling us something. What do you make of it?

Dwtw

333= listen to the numbers & the words.

Litlluw

RLG

(@threefold31)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 429
14/04/2020 4:41 am

@elitemachinery

DWTW

Actually, I gave you exactly what you asked for.

The 'big picture" is that the Prophet was supposed to fulfill verse 2:55. He did this via Trigrammaton. Presumably he was told to do this because the text is encoded. So he gave us the key. Then the big picture becomes the sum of the *entire book*. Then you work back from that. Start with the general and work to the particular. That's a systems theory approach. It has nothing to do with the Cipher.

Then you get to the granular level and look at the Cipher, and it produces the grand total for you with a simple formula. It's the end piece of the puzzle. Not the beginning.

I agree, starting with the Cipher is completely backwards. How about we start with the Prophet's solution first?

Litlluw

RLG

(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 505
14/04/2020 5:03 am
Posted by: @threefold31

DWTW

Actually, I gave you exactly what you asked for.

Oh ok. I missed that. Problem solved. Moving along now. What's next fellas? Can we all destroy our copies of the Holy Book now? Isn't that what we were supposed to do in the first place?

"The study of this Book is forbidden. It is wise to destroy this copy after the first reading."

"Whosoever disregards this does so at his own risk and peril. These are most dire."

"Those who discuss the contents of this Book are to be shunned by all, as centres of pestilence."

"All questions of the Law are to be decided only by appeal to my writings, each for himself."

(@herupakraath)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 445
14/04/2020 6:07 am
Posted by: @threefold31

without all the contortions and cherry picking required to find one's name in it.

There is no cherry-picking involved in finding my name and location in the puzzle: I use simple, basic gematria, with no letters in the puzzle altered, added, or omitted, along with a gematria system derived from the counts of letters in the Book of the Law, which proves there were no preconceptions on my part. The only possible argument against the equations produced is they occur at random, the odds of which are ten-million to one.

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4944
14/04/2020 6:36 am
Posted by: @elitemachinery

Can we all destroy our copies of the Holy Book now?

1984. A done deal.

(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 505
14/04/2020 10:48 am
Posted by: @elitemachinery
Posted by: @elitemachinery

Can we all destroy our copies of the Holy Book now?

1984. A done deal.

Burnt in the flower pot out front of Mr White's house? Am I remembering correctly?

(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1542
14/04/2020 12:37 pm

Souse

(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1553
14/04/2020 1:23 pm
Posted by: @herupakraath

The only possible argument against the equations produced is they occur at random, the odds of which are ten-million to one.

Pretty good - I'll take 'em... they're better odds than the lottery!

Gam[bl]ingly yours,

N Joy

(@threefold31)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 429
14/04/2020 4:47 pm
Posted by: @herupakraath

There is no cherry-picking involved in finding my name and location in the puzzle: I use simple, basic gematria, with no letters in the puzzle altered, added, or omitted, along with a gematria system derived from the counts of letters in the Book of the Law, which proves there were no preconceptions on my part. The only possible argument against the equations produced is they occur at random, the odds of which are ten-million to one.

Dwtw

It's interesting that you make the argument that there are millions of possible gematrias that could get the same grand total of CCXX as the TQ does, and at the same time claim that of the millions of possible referents to the gematria total in the Cipher, they all point to YOU and nothing else whatsoever.

The fact that the gematria aligns with some of your personal identifiers is wonderful. That doesn't mean they can't possibly point to something else instead. The same is true for Michael and Walt. I think it's pretty cool that they can find pointers to their own identities in this stuff, but it doesn't exclude other possibilities as well.

This is the flaw in anyone's claim that their name is encoded. Unless it is a substitution Cipher, where a name is identified specifically, such as the 4th, 6th, 3rd, 8th capital letters in chapter 2, or something like that, identifying the name unequivocally as CHAD, or whatever, then the claim is not substantiated. You have found a resonance, not a resolution.

As an example, my last name equals 143 if spelled in Hebrew letters: Gimel-Yod-Lamed-Lamed-Yod-Samek. No one can claim I am fudging the numbers on that. And it so happens that the numbers in the Cipher total 143. But that does not allow me to claim my name is hidden in the Cipher, because anything else that equals 143 might also be indicated. (besides the fact that I spell my name with Latin letters and not Hebrew). In the case of the TQ, the number 143 equals The Book of the Law. I'm happy with that result, knowing full well that it is a selection out of many possibilities. But it relates to the Book in question, so why not start there? It becomes a baseline. Do any other gematrias get the title of the Book and the names of the three deities out of the Cipher? Maybe yes, maybe no, but the Prophet's attributions do, so it creates a reference from which to work.

If part of your point is to find your identifiers in Liber AL, then congratulations, you've succeeded. I admire your tenacity, and you deserve whatever benefit may be derived from your success.

Litlluw

RLG

RTC and liked
(@setguy)
Member
Joined: 6 months ago
Posts: 171
14/04/2020 4:53 pm

@threefold31

My thoughts exactly. Even Michael freaking Aquino twisted the cipher in laughable ways to find himself in it:

"Destined First Century Heir – Aquino – Breaking Keys By Doctrines Anton LaVey – Great Magus Of Re-consecration Coming Year Xeper – Founding His Rightful Priesthood – Set – True Origin Volume AL.”

Like come on. Meanwhile I just add numbers up and easily find Set in several puzzles, but that couldn't possibly be it! Couldn't possibly be the child of Nuit that's referred to!

"The other images group around me to support me: let all be worshipped, for they shall cluster to exalt me… There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son."

Set = I, Was = Aiwass

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4944
14/04/2020 6:32 pm
Posted by: @elitemachinery

Am I remembering correctly?

Correctly, yes.

(@herupakraath)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 445
17/04/2020 12:05 pm
Posted by: @threefold31

This is the flaw in anyone's claim that their name is encoded. Unless it is a substitution Cipher, where a name is identified specifically, such as the 4th, 6th, 3rd, 8th capital letters in chapter 2, or something like that, identifying the name unequivocally as CHAD, or whatever, then the claim is not substantiated. You have found a resonance, not a resolution.

In regard to the II:76 cipher, a substitution cipher would limit the letters in the puzzle to one purpose only, concealing a name. Using gematria allows multiple dimensions of information to be encrypted within the letters, which justifies using gematria over substitution.

A method of substitution is indicated by converting the 14 different letters in the puzzle into the ideas they signify in the Tri-key, with the chances of the patterns occurring at random equaling 40 million:1.

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4944
17/04/2020 7:58 pm

What did I say earlier? QBL is like The Glass Bead Game, or Mr Spock's Three-Dimensional Chess. I never understood them, but did get the injunction that one needs to be an abstract, geeky nerd to even begin to follow out the permutations of the numbers into infinity, and back.

(@herupakraath)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 445
17/04/2020 9:36 pm
Posted by: @shiva

I never understood them, but did get the injunction that one needs to be an abstract, geeky nerd to even begin to follow out the permutations of the numbers into infinity, and back.

It couldn't be any worse than the Qabalah and all of its trappings, which requires engaging religious dogma to boot.

(@duck)
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Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 624
18/04/2020 1:31 am
Posted by: @elitemachinery

Without this final piece. The picture would be incomplete. By itself it offers nothing.

In this scenario, you must work a lot harder. It's not the short path. But i think it is the correct way to proceed.

Thanks for your post. It takes my slow-ass brain a couple of days to ponder things over before replying sometimes.

I remember when I first read AL, I had no idea what the cipher was and had little to no interest in it. This may be a better approach for most: apply what you learn from Thelema in a useful way to your everyday life if you can and don't worry too much over the puzzles of AL.

Your post was a sensible way of looking at the cipher and I appreciate these perspectives that are new to me. Please allow me to develop your analogy in a slightly different way (though I hope it is still saying the same thing, more or less):

When you get one of the big puzzle pieces figured out, a piece of the cipher can also fall into place. The most sensible way is to of course concentrate on the big pieces but occasionally the process may work in reverse and from reading some of your posts, you may have figured out one of the "small pieces" (in the cipher) that lead you to find one of the big pieces in your life in general.

So, you could think of this as something like "distributed computing", the activity in your life that is figuring out the big pieces of the puzzle is like a computer program playing out and gradually solving the cipher, unconsciously. Eventually this "program" will complete its task.

I hope that makes some sense anyway.

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4944
18/04/2020 3:06 am
Posted by: @duck

:

I see Mickey and Minnie Mouse dancing the jitterbug. Did I do anything wrong?

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 624
18/04/2020 3:15 am

@shiva

Very abstract but I can vaguely see where you're going with this. I wouldn't say you did anything wrong, but you could always mention something relevant to the cipher in general and the post in particular, ie has the effect of you "solving" the problems in your life got you any closer to solving the cipher?

(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 505
18/04/2020 3:59 am
Posted by: @duck

I hope that makes some sense anyway.

Not really but that's okay I guess.

Creating an unsolvable Rubik's Cube is apparently a thing that is used to prank others you can read about how to do it here:

https://www.instructables.com/id/Rubiks-cube-pranks/

I think the cipher falls into the same category as the "No Soap Radio" joke at least for now. The longer anyone pretends to know what it is all about the more stupid they look.

I'd say give it a break. There are no shortcuts.

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4944
18/04/2020 7:10 am
Posted by: @duck

Very abstract but I can vaguely see where you're going with this.

I am not going anywhere with this. You, the Duch (Duke, Duck, all the same) of Ducky, posted a puz with a pixelized rendering in it. This rending immediately saw an image of Mickey the Mouse, wildly dancing with his gal, Minnie.

I can still see it, even if others don't. Rorschach Tests are viewed differently by different people ... depending on their psychological philters.

Posted by: @duck
Posted by: @duck

:

Posted by: @elitemachinery

The longer anyone pretends to know what it is all about the more stupid they look.

But do you see mice dancing?

(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 505
18/04/2020 7:46 am
Posted by: @elitemachinery
Posted by: @elitemachinery

The longer anyone pretends to know what it is all about the more stupid they look.

But do you see mice dancing?

Not at first glance but if i squint my eyes the smaller puzzle pieces in the middle looks somewhat like the image below of Mickey and Minnie Mouse dancing.

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4944
18/04/2020 6:40 pm
Posted by: @elitemachinery

the smaller puzzle pieces in the middle looks somewhat like the image below of Mickey and Minnie Mouse dancing.

Piss Pass On to the next Pile-On.

(@duck)
Member
Joined: 7 months ago
Posts: 624
18/04/2020 7:00 pm
Posted by: @elitemachinery

Not really but that's okay I guess.

I guess it was just my convoluted way of saying: concentrate on the "bigger pieces" and you might find the cipher gets solved on its own.

Posted by: @shiva

posted a puz with a pixelized rendering in it. This rending immediately saw an image of Mickey the Mouse, wildly dancing with his gal, Minnie.

Yes that's fine. In case you missed it, it was analogy with the missing puzzle piece (the cipher) getting gradually solved with small pieces as you solve the bigger pieces (one's life in general). It probably wasn't that good anyway.

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