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wellreadwellbred
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06/12/2014 1:13 am  

The presentation of various II:76 Cipher solutions, is my stated purpose with this thread, it is also my stated intention that any potential debate concerning the content of this thread, shall be done outside of this thread, for example in another thread or in other threads.

This II:76 cipher solution, the conclusion of which is presented below, is a seemingly simple solution that fits with A.C.'s fondness for numerology, and which seems to demonstrate some understanding of The Book of the Law's meaningful content. The source where I found this solution is http://www.astronargon.us/The%20Riddle%20Solved.htm - The Riddle Solved (then coagulated) by Frater Centaurus 3°=8□ A∴A∴, and I have only quoted the conclusion from the said source:

"Conclusion

The answer is simple and sublime.  And it is written right on the cover of the original manuscript.  93=418 as the motto of Aiwass leads one to immediately see 418 as the name of the house of the Prophet and which is also the Khabs that is the name of the house of Hadit and that has a direct relation to the current of the ‘Will’ (93 and both the numeration of the words, Thelema and Agape).  This gives us the idea that Hadit and the Prophet are directly linked together.  We can glean this from the following quotes in AL:

    AL:II.78  “Lift up thyself!  for there is none like unto thee among men or among Gods!  Lift up thyself, o my prophet,
    thy stature shall surpass the stars.  They shall worship thy name, foursquare, mystic, wonderful, the number of the
    man; and the name of thy house 418.”
    AL:II.2  “Come!  all ye, and learn the secret that hath not yet been revealed.  I, Hadit, am the complement of Nu, my 
    bride.  I am not extended, and Khabs is the name of my House.“

Next, let’s consider that fact that 31 is the Key to AL and 31 is ‘Not.’  We will then find further evidence connecting Hadit to the Prophet in the following verses of this same second chapter of Liber AL:

    AL:II.12  “Because of me in Thee which thou knewest not.”
    AL:II.13  “for why?  Because thou wast the knower, and me.”
    AL:II.76  “4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y X 24 89 R P S T O V A L.  What meaneth this, o prophet? Thou     
    knowest not; nor shalt thou know ever.  There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it.  But remember, o     
    chosen one, to be me; to follow the love of Nu in the star-lit heaven; to look forth upon men, to tell them this glad   
    word.“

We then find Aiwass to be the Avatar of the Aeon, the archetypal Holy Guardian Angel.  And Aiwass is also Hadit, as intimately Aleister Crowley as he was something much larger than Aleister Crowley; it says so, clearly in AL:II.12-13.  A set of gematric correspondences then immediately open up from 93=418.  418=13, a thrashraq of 31 and as it occurs four times in the riddle, and as four suggests the trinity, so 31 threefold equals 93, which is the expression of that trinity.  13 in threefold is 39, which is a thrashraq of 93.  So either way you look at it, it gives us something.  Even in considering it as the Death Atu (XIII), we are led to the three veils and to ‘Not.’

So 31 is the Key of it all.  And 93=418 is how this is expounded.  It gives us the dynamic nature in the way that Liber AL vel Legis was communicated to Crowley and through Aiwass; and what those implications may mean to the rest of us as much as they were intimately connected the man, Aleister Crowley.  It is short, simple and as sublime as it is beautiful:  93=418."   


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threefold31
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06/12/2014 2:52 am  

Dwtw

I have collected almost all of the 'solutions' proffered online in my essay found here:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/234506343/Secrets-of-the-Cipher-Naughts-2-0

This essay was mentioned in a previous thread on the subject several months ago. It may save you the trouble of typing out excerpts from more than two dozen different exegeses.

Litlluw
RLG


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William Thirteen
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06/12/2014 10:27 am  

nicely done threefold31! Though this summary doesn't yet contain the 'geographical' solution mentioned by Paul, correct?


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threefold31
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06/12/2014 2:08 pm  

Dwtw

That's correct. That solution was not included in part because it is not fully explained on the threads that I read. If someone cares to spell it all out succinctly then it can get added. There are also two other solutions found on these boards that will be included in version 3.0, whenever I have time. And of course there are probably some others I've never heard of yet.

Litlluw
RLG


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William Thirteen
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07/12/2014 12:33 pm  

and is there somewhere we can lay bets on which of these might be correct?  i've a few quid in me pocket, am feeling lucky, and baby needs a new pair of shoes! 😉


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jamie barter
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07/12/2014 1:25 pm  

Yes, if anyone is feeling particularly lucky I'd appreciate a tip, this time of the year and all... 

Money's too tight to mention,
Norma N Joy Conquest


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lashtal
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07/12/2014 6:45 pm  
"threefold31" wrote:
I have collected almost all of the 'solutions' proffered online in my essay found here:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/234506343/Secrets-of-the-Cipher-Naughts-2-0

Just read this and am very impressed with you summary. Let me know if you'd be happy for me to include it in the Downloads section of LAShTAL.COM...

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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the_real_simon_iff
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07/12/2014 9:57 pm  

93!

Does anyone here remember the "solution" based on the "sound" of the riddle? I read it once many, many years ago and it was quite - well - interesting and should maybe be incorporated into your work for the sake of completeness, RLG. Unfortunatley I can't remember where I read it and how it went. But iirc it started with "for this create.." and of course ended with "pissed of all".

I also have an unfinished solution based on the fact that if AC mis-spelled Aiwaz, he also mis-spelled those damnable double numbers "24" and "89" which should have been "10 - T - 4" and "8 - T - 9" (or "A - T - 9"). Had some "cabbalistic" fun with that. Maybe I can work on that during the holidays...

Love=Law
Lutz


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threefold31
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08/12/2014 5:38 am  

Dwtw

93 Lutz!

Yes, that phonetic solution is one of the many covered in my essay. I believe the one on page 30 is what you're referring to.

Probably when I get version 3.0 completed, it can go in the downloads section here. Still need to add a few, although the latest one so endlessly discussed borders on the incomprehensible. Not that that ever stopped anyone before 🙂

Litlluw
RLG


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faustian
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28/03/2015 6:22 pm  

algmor = glamor = magic cast by a spell, enchantment

rp-oval = vorpal = sword used to slay the JabberWocky - see nonsense poem by Lewis Carroll (through the Looking Glass)

ab - st = stab = what you must do with the vorpal sword


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Los
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28/03/2015 8:19 pm  
"lashtal" wrote:
Yes, at last! Well done, faustian.

I like it.


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Michael Staley
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28/03/2015 10:17 pm  

Well, what a surprise. Los - the archetypal sneerer - likes sometthing that sneers at something he doesn't like.

Knock me down with a feather.


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threefold31
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29/03/2015 6:37 am  

Dwtw

So many words to make from the letters…but a pangram is a real challenge

LVX PORTALS GO BY KARMA

GRASP MY LVX BOOK ALTAR

Litlluw
RLG


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phluphy_phlu
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31/03/2015 4:08 am  

"Thou shalt obtain the order & value of the English Alphabet; thou shalt find new symbols to attribute them unto." -AL.II.55

" Let him not seek to try: but one cometh after him, whence I say not, who shall discover the Key of it all. Then this line drawn is a key: then this circle squared in its failure is a key also. And Abrahadabra. It shall be his child & that strangely. Let him not seek after this; for thereby alone can he fall from it." -AL.III.47

I've already discovered The Key of it All and posted it in my blog-publication, It's All in the Egg - A Journal for the Incoming of Maat.
It's simply the Hebrew-English Gematria formula, that is Hebrew applied to the English alphabet with C having a possible value of 3 (as in A-B-C) or 8, the number of Cheth as when used in a 'Ch' sound, like AChHAD. When this is done the entire gamut of Hebrew qabalistic equations are found to be in sync with the more modern English ones and also opens - like a key - a potential for the Wisdom of the Qabalah to be merged with even Sanskrit and other languages and systems. When you apply this to the cryptogram the SUM (Samekh-Vav-Mem final = 666) is 1066, the value of the actual phrase THE CRYPTOGRAM KEY itself, and EXPOUND THE 76 SUM, as well as THE VERSE 76 GEMATRIA KEY. It was prophesized in LIBER L VEL LEGIS (=666) that 'Another Prophet' shall arise and bring fresh fever from the skies. Find my blog and use the formulas I have provided to carry this work further.

Frater Mayan


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elitemachinery
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31/03/2015 6:27 am  

Ok I'll throw my hat in the mix. 😛

AL III 49: "I am in a secret fourfold word, the blasphemy against all gods of men."

My theory is that this secret fourfold word reveals Aiwass as an acronym of sorts:

Aleister In Wonderland & through the Looking Glass

When this "secret fourfold word" is revealed or 'unfolded' it looks like this:

If the above image does not animate clear your cache and click on the link below in a browser...it should animate:

Re the cipher. Here are my notes:

AL III 47: "This book shall be translated into all tongues: but always with the original in the writing of the Beast; for in the chance shape of the letters and their position to one another: in these are mysteries that no Beast shall divine. Let him not seek to try: but one cometh after him, whence I say not, who shall discover the Key of it all."

The "letters and their position to one another" to me suggest an anagram:

original:

4638 ABK 2 4 ALGMOR 3y x24 89 RPSTOVAL

solution:

4638 VAR 2 4 GLOBAL 3y x24 89 POSTMARK

VAR GLOBAL POSTMARK = VARIABLE GLOBAL POSTMARK

The spacing and layout remains the same. The cipher is a tracking code that matches document, day, year, time, address, and days between dates.

eMpTy = 0


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Shiva
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31/03/2015 2:45 pm  
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
I've already discovered The Key of it All and posted it in my blog-publication, It's All in the Egg - A Journal for the Incoming of Maat.

Oh, darn!  And here I was, thinking that that imposter Achad had discovered the Key of AL.


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phluphy_phlu
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31/03/2015 6:39 pm  

He discovered the main Key of Liber AL, namely the addition of the 'A' and then some other things regarding the Ma-Ion as shown by Kenneth Grant which ties in to his fractal hologram rendition of the Tree of Life. I've merely expanded upon this and discovered the Key to the cryptogram.


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Shiva
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31/03/2015 8:54 pm  
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
I've merely expanded upon this and discovered the Key to the cryptogram.

Well, by all means, tell us what it means. If you're right, you'll be the "another [s:2bn8ilo3]beast[/s:2bn8ilo3], er, prophet shall arise," and you'll be 666s successor, acknowledged by all (most? many?) Thelemites as the legitimate heir to "The Wickedest ..." title.

And don't tell us how you did it (that can come later, if your interpretation means something). And don't refer us to ... "posted it in my blog-publication," when all you need to do is cut-and-paste the meaning (the final interpretation/result) into a simple post here on lashtal.

And (there's a lot of and's here :D) you didn't even give us a link to your blog, making us run around through Google the Borg (see: http://itsallintheegg.blogspot.com/ ) in order to get to your exposition, which is too long and complocated and detailed for those of us with feeble minds to comprehend.

By the way, the Human Design system is a big deal in our household. My wife is the expert; I am one of her subjects, who finds the "readings" (charts, diagrams, whatever) to be highly accurate. According to the latest Human Design output, the human race will be evolving into something completely different in about 15 years, and everything we know will be wrong and superceded by something new. It's already being foreshadowed in the autistic savant syndrome epidemic, but the first full-blown incarnate won't be with us 'til 2030.

Anyway, tell us what it means or implies or how it's practical.
KISS (keep it simple, stupid) 😉
WIIWW (write it in white[r] words) 😀

By the way, if you're wrong, and it's meaningless or tricky, then your name will be added to those pretenders who came before, and you'll be automatically enrolled (at the end of the long, black line, of course) in Purgatory, where you will have to toil, "workin' for the man, every night and day," until your presumptions are eradicated.

We're all waiting with rapt attention. Let's have it!
[/align:2bn8ilo3]


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phluphy_phlu
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31/03/2015 11:26 pm  

"The egg is a work which must be done -- the great work. By doing the work we get to the key."


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abn53
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31/03/2015 11:29 pm  

Let me add to the pile...

Many of the solutions I have seen really do not to go back to the original Liber XXXI (the manuscript). They use Liber CCXX.
and Crowley's Class A libers. So they are easy for me to dismiss. I try to avoid later interpretations by others, including those by Crowley. The Thelemic idea is "each for himself".
While my thoughts on the matter do include consideration of statements about Crowley's limitations,the alphabet, etc, in Liber XXXI. The interpretation of the riddle is my own. It can be downloaded
from LASHTAL I have played with it for about 30 years. If it were easy to solve by current standards, it it would have been solved already. Some day I hope my thoughts will help provide the unquestioned solution.
I take that magical heir situation as a frightening thought for all. Thanks but no thanks here.


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Shiva
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01/04/2015 1:39 am  
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
"The egg is a work which must be done -- the great work. By doing the work we get to the key.

This is it? This is the meaning of the AL cryptogram?

If yes, please get in that line.
If no, please explain yourself. Why do I have to lay an egg?


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phluphy_phlu
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01/04/2015 9:07 am  

Well, technically, using the formula I provided, THE MEANING OF THE EGG = 1066 as well, (400, Tau, 'The Cross', i.e. '+', the symbol for the SUM (=666)), which is the sum of the Cryptogram. What it 'means' for you is for you to find out, not for someone else to tell you. That's the 'Work' of the Egg, the Egg being the Immortal Principle which is the Zero Point, the Source of the 'Will', synonymous with the Tao. I'm simply saying this formula further unlocks and helps understand deeper aspects of the passages of Liber AL.


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Shiva
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01/04/2015 2:54 pm  
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
What it 'means' for you is for you to find out, not for someone else to tell you.

Well, this is exactly what AC told us to do. There's nothing new here

That's the 'Work' of the Egg, the Egg being the Immortal Principle which is the Zero Point, the Source of the 'Will', synonymous with the Tao.

Yes. There's nothing new here

I'm simply saying this formula further unlocks and helps understand deeper aspects of the passages of Liber AL.

"Further unlocks" ... ???
"Deeper aspects" ... ???

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm still waiting to see something new.


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abn53
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01/04/2015 4:34 pm  

Does a cryptogram have to have “meaning”, or can it be just a signal or message? What about a crossword puzzle or Rubik’s cube?  Each has a solution, but no specific meaning. First, one must decode the contents, then interpret a message, if any.

I remember the story of the blind men and the elephant. They each are true in their understanding, but differ in their description. Each is incapable of seeing the whole picture.

Liber XXXI Ch. 1, p.17 — All words are sacred and all prophets true; save only that they understand a little; solve the first half of the equation; leave the second unattacked  But thou has all in the light, and some though not all in the dark.

For me, the message behind the riddle is that the operational model of Tree of Life for the New Æon needs revision, though its meaning and usefulness remain the same for the most part. The change of emphasis about Da’ath fits well into the Equinox motto about scientific illuminism.

Resistance to its acceptance likely goes back to the science / religion contrast. Science has logic (explaining the laws of nature), (objective) repeatability, and no absolutes. Religion has (personal) faith, (even blind) acceptance, and an (we don’t know what we don’t know) absolute. I may believe the moon is made of green cheese, but that doesn’t mean it is.


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Shiva
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01/04/2015 7:18 pm  
"abn53" wrote:
Does a cryptogram have to have “meaning”, or can it be just a signal or message?

It can be anything that has some "meaning" for the puzzle-breaker and, especially, for Thelemites in general, because the "breaker" is claiming to have "broken" the AL cryptogram. If it's a signal ??? or a message 8) or a treasure map :o, or anything similar, it's gotta mean something to us, or the "breaker" is gonna get broken in Purgatory 😉

To put it another way, if it's a meaningless signal or message, then it has no meaning or use to him or us or the [s:1rtjzmx2]Poop[/s:1rtjzmx2], er. Pope. And, if such is the case, then he has to be added to the list of claimant-solvers who are no more than pretenders and provokers.

But, in this case, we (meaning myself and maybe a few other passive watchers) are still waiting for some light to come on in the bulb; that is, we're still waiting for something that makes sense or accurately predicts the stock market 🙂


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phluphy_phlu
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01/04/2015 7:53 pm  

Just because something makes no sense to you doesn't mean it has no sense to be made. Also, what makes you or anyone else think you're the voice of logic and reason for anything or anyone but their own? What 'new' things have you brought through to this side of the Sun regarding insights into the cryptogram? I've found tons of useful things which I've found applicable to my own magickal and mystical work, so just because you're lacking and can't apply it doesn't mean I myself or others can't, when in fact we have.
To most people Liber AL itself is nothing but nonsense, but to those of us who can make sense of certain aspects it becomes correspondingly 'active'. Personally, I think the cryptogram has a different meaning for each person that attempts to analyze it and it's not really for anyone else to determine for you, spoon feed to you, or etch in stone and code into 'law' - you can only do that for yourself in your own magickal universe (i.e. the development of the Great Work). Love is the Law, Love under Will.


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phluphy_phlu
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01/04/2015 8:26 pm  

Again, to put it more simply, THE CRYPTOGRAM KEY = the sum of the values of the Cryptogram using the Hebrew formula applied to the English letters. If you have any 'qualms' about that, well I'm sorry, but the mathematics add up and when using this basic method applied to Liber AL unlocks many insights no one hitherto - including Crowley himself, Achad, Grant and apparently people on this site - have not known about (hence - 'New'). There's pretty much no 'whiter words' in which I can put what I was previously trying to convey, but what YOU make of it is your work... that is if you can make anything of it.


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Shiva
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01/04/2015 9:13 pm  
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
Just because something makes no sense to you doesn't mean it has no sense to be made. Also, what makes you or anyone else think you're the voice of logic and reason for anything or anyone but their own?

"Be...assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction![...]It is the prophet,...who is never to know this mystery. But that does not prevent it from lying within the comprehension of the Beast," - AC

What 'new' things have you brought through to this side of the Sun regarding insights into the cryptogram?

Um ... let's see ... In 1984, I performed a transcription/translation of the so-called AL Cryptogram. It was published and recognized by a relatively large number of people (that is, it was more than seven folks but less than a hundred - I never knew the full membership numbers of the Order involved).

Personally, I think the cryptogram has a different meaning for each person that attempts to analyze it and it's not really for anyone else to determine for you, spoon feed to you, or etch in stone and code into 'law' - you can only do that for yourself in your own magickal universe

That could be, but "Be...assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction!"

If we are to believe AC, it will be simple and unquestionable. So, I'm asking questions and looking for simplocity.


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Shiva
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01/04/2015 9:21 pm  
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
... what YOU make of it is your work... that is if you can make anything of it.

Book 4 tells us: "... the present breaking up of all [claims] is due to the fact that people have asked to see the securities." I have merely asked for the "securities" and have seen nothing but rambling nonsense. Thanks for your time and best wishes toward convincing folks that you're the ...
[the manuscript abrptly ends at the point]


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steve_wilson
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03/04/2015 5:40 pm  
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
He discovered the main Key of Liber AL, namely the addition of the 'A' and then some other things regarding the Ma-Ion as shown by Kenneth Grant which ties in to his fractal hologram rendition of the Tree of Life. I've merely expanded upon this and discovered the Key to the cryptogram.

Crowley quite rightly condemned Cabalists who "added the sacred aleph" to make the gematria work.


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phluphy_phlu
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05/04/2015 9:03 am  

Whether you like it or not the formulas work and I am obviously the only one to be aware of them and even acknowledge that they work. You're all to busy bumping uglies with your egos I could care less what you think, I've found what I found and simply presented it if you don't like it well too bad because you can't really say I'm wrong like you're trying to because THE CRYPTOGRAM KEY still has the same value as the Cryptogram itself - therefore I've found THE CRYPTOGRAM KEY - which when applied to LIBER L VEL LEGIS = 666 along with numerous other interesting parallels. Stay in denial all you want, you won't be learning much staying in your little 'Crowley hole' where nothing new can ever be discovered and only Crowley knows best.


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phluphy_phlu
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05/04/2015 9:05 am  

And by the way, it doesn't get any more 'simpler' than simple addition. Samekh-Vav-Mem final = 666. SUM it up. Or don't and just deny deny deny.
http://itsallintheegg.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-key-of-it-all.html


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arthuremerson
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05/04/2015 9:22 am  

All sounds like a bunch of phluphy-phlu, y'ask me.


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herupakraath
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05/04/2015 11:09 am  
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
And by the way, it doesn't get any more 'simpler' than simple addition. Samekh-Vav-Mem final = 666. SUM it up. Or don't and just deny deny deny.
http://itsallintheegg.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-key-of-it-all.html

In double checking your math, I fail to see how you arrive at a total of 1066 for the riddle of II:76. All except one of the letters in the riddle are easily transposed into Hebrew letters: the exception is the letter X. The only way to incorporate X into the scheme is by representing it phonetically. The two phonemes that form the X sound are Kaph and Samekh, which have values of 20 and 60 respectively. The rest of the letters in the riddle produce a total value of 833; when the values for the letter X are added the total is 913, an interesting and elegant result given the significance of 913 to Berashith. Adding in the sum of the numbers in the riddle, 143, brings the complete total to 1056, which is 10 short of 1066.

Can you explain the discrepancy in the numbers?


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Shiva
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05/04/2015 2:56 pm  
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
I am obviously the only one to be aware of them

The "only one?"  One is the lonliest number that you'll ever know


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threefold31
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05/04/2015 8:08 pm  
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
Whether you like it or not the formulas work and I am obviously the only one to be aware of them and even acknowledge that they work. ... you can't really say I'm wrong like you're trying to because THE CRYPTOGRAM KEY still has the same value as the Cryptogram itself - therefore I've found THE CRYPTOGRAM KEY - which when applied to LIBER L VEL LEGIS = 666 along with numerous other interesting parallels.

Dwtw

You've chosen a phrase - The Cryptogram Key - which is not necessarily any indication that you've found the 'solution' to the Cipher. Thousands of phrases can be found that match a given number. A simple list of gematria equivalences, by itself, is hardly a solution. You are simply cherry-picking something that equals a number, and ignoring anything that doesn't. At the very least, your phrase or list of names should be words found in Liber Legis.

The fact that the title of the work equals 666 is interesting, but you're not the first person to notice this. I've made mention of this myself in the past on these forums. Your solution boils down to using Hebrew transliteration, and this has been done by a handful of people before you, with varying results. See my essay on solutions of the Cipher for examples.

Litlluw
RLG


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threefold31
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05/04/2015 8:10 pm  
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
Whether you like it or not the formulas work and I am obviously the only one to be aware of them and even acknowledge that they work. ... you can't really say I'm wrong like you're trying to because THE CRYPTOGRAM KEY still has the same value as the Cryptogram itself - therefore I've found THE CRYPTOGRAM KEY - which when applied to LIBER L VEL LEGIS = 666 along with numerous other interesting parallels.

Dwtw

You've chosen a phrase - The Cryptogram Key - which is not necessarily any indication that you've found the 'solution' to the Cipher. Thousands of phrases can be found that match a given number. A simple list of gematria equivalences, by itself, is hardly a solution. You are simply cherry-picking something that equals a number, and ignoring anything that doesn't. At the very least, your phrase or list of names should be words found in Liber Legis.

The fact that the title of the work equals 666 is interesting, but you're not the only person to notice this. I've made mention of this myself in the past on these forums. reply #151 on 3-9-2014

http://www.lashtal.com/forum/http://www.lashtal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=81642#p81642

Your solution boils down to using Hebrew transliteration, and this has been done by a handful of people before you, with varying results. See my essay on solutions of the Cipher for examples.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/234506343/Secrets-of-the-Cipher-Naughts-2-0

Litlluw
RLG


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phluphy_phlu
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05/04/2015 9:34 pm  

I used Tzaddi for 'X', it's all explained in the link I posted.


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phluphy_phlu
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05/04/2015 9:36 pm  

I don't see any 'cherry picking' when this is what I've found that all have the same value.

4+6+3+8+A1+B2+K20+2+4+A1+L30+G3+M40+O70+R200+3+Y10+X90+24+89+R200+P80+S60+T9+O70+V6+A1+L30,
THE CRYPTOGRAM KEY,
The400 SUM,
EXPOUND THE 76 SUM,
THE VERSE 76 GEMATRIA KEY,
VERSE 76 TEST,
VERSE 76 TRANSLITERATION,
THE GEMATRIA KEY OF LIBER AL VEL LEGIS,
LIBER L VEL LEGIS VERSE 76 VALUE,
THE LIBER AL VEL LEGIS LOCK,
LIBER AL VEL LEGIS MYSTERIES,
THE IT’S ALL IN THE EGG KEY,
THE KEY CALCULATION,
THE MANIFESTATION KEYS,
THE GEMATRIA CALCULATOR,
THE COMPUTER PROGRAM KEY,
THE GREAT MAGICK POWER,
THE MIRROR,
THE SCALES,
I AM IN A SECRET FOURFOLD WORD,
ALL IS NOT AUGHT,


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phluphy_phlu
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05/04/2015 9:41 pm  
"threefold31" wrote:
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
Whether you like it or not the formulas work and I am obviously the only one to be aware of them and even acknowledge that they work. ... you can't really say I'm wrong like you're trying to because THE CRYPTOGRAM KEY still has the same value as the Cryptogram itself - therefore I've found THE CRYPTOGRAM KEY - which when applied to LIBER L VEL LEGIS = 666 along with numerous other interesting parallels.

Dwtw

You've chosen a phrase - The Cryptogram Key - which is not necessarily any indication that you've found the 'solution' to the Cipher. Thousands of phrases can be found that match a given number. A simple list of gematria equivalences, by itself, is hardly a solution. You are simply cherry-picking something that equals a number, and ignoring anything that doesn't. At the very least, your phrase or list of names should be words found in Liber Legis.

The fact that the title of the work equals 666 is interesting, but you're not the only person to notice this. I've made mention of this myself in the past on these forums. reply #151 on 3-9-2014

http://www.lashtal.com/forum/http://www.lashtal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=81642#p81642

Your solution boils down to using Hebrew transliteration, and this has been done by a handful of people before you, with varying results. See my essay on solutions of the Cipher for examples.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/234506343/Secrets-of-the-Cipher-Naughts-2-0

Litlluw
RLG

Oh but Lord Shiva says this is all nonsense and can't possibly be of any meaning.... so therefore you and I are both wrong. There is nothing to be gained for anyone by having a database of correspondences- Liber 777 isn't 'useful' at all, and neither would a larger more updated one. Hahaha. You guys are funny.


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threefold31
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05/04/2015 9:58 pm  
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
I don't see any 'cherry picking' when this is what I've found that all have the same value.

Dwtw

yes, that's exactly the problem. You don't see the selective choices being made. Only two of your phrases actually appear in the book.
It doesn't matter how long your list is; there is an equally long one that doesn't fit. None of the following phrases equal this sum, yet all are pertinent:

The cipher of verse 76
The cipher of verse seventy six
The riddle of verse 76
The riddle of verse seventy six
The key of it all
The key of verse 76
The key of verse seventy six
The cryptograph of Liber L
The cryptogram of Liber L
The cryptogram of Liber AL
etc, etc.

Now presuming you really do have "The Gematria Key of Liber AL vel Legis", what exactly does it convey? What mystery does it solve beyond the concept that 'it's all in the egg'? This of course being a phrase already stated by AC elsewhere. Is it merely confirmation that this phrase and its attendant concepts are important?

While it is entirely possible that the Cipher itself encodes a Hebrew transliteration, that does not entail that ALL words in English should be added up using this system. English is not Hebrew, and you're ignoring the fact that verse II:55 specifically demands a new English gematria. Beyond that, the possibilities for ambiguity when transliterating English into Hebrew are legion; the language has no true vowels, two letters each for S, T and V, and enough possibilities to turn almost any phrase or word into a useful number.

The point is that gematria equivalences alone do not constitute - by themselves - the solution to the Cipher. If your solution boils down to "It's all in the egg", then very well. At least that's a message. But it's obvious that the sum of the Cipher can be equal to lots of phrases, as you yourself even point out. So which one is the actual answer to the riddle? if there is only one, then the others are superfluous. And the Cipher does not point to one in specific; you simply got a total value and looked for equivalences. This is possible no matter what gematria one uses for the Cipher, which can give you a total of 351, or 1276 or 810 or 913.

There's nothing wrong with having a list of correspondences, and of making up your own equivalences. But they do not have universal application.

Litlluw
RLG


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Shiva
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05/04/2015 10:01 pm  
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
.... so therefore you and I are both wrong.

Not at all!  I'm merely looking for that assurance ...

"Be...assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction!"


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Shiva
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05/04/2015 10:05 pm  
"threefold31" wrote:
Now presuming you really do have "The Gematria Key of Liber AL vel Legis", what exactly does it convey? What mystery does it solve beyond the concept that 'it's all in the egg'?

Exactly!


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wellreadwellbred
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08/04/2015 8:53 pm  
"Shiva" wrote:
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
.... so therefore you and I are both wrong.

Not at all!  I'm merely looking for that assurance ...

"Be...assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction!"

How could Crowley be so certain that this would be the nature of the II:76 Cipher solution, if he did not author the The Book of the Law?


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wellreadwellbred
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08/04/2015 11:18 pm  
"Shiva" wrote:
"phluphy_phlu" wrote:
.... so therefore you and I are both wrong.

Not at all!  I'm merely looking for that assurance ...

"Be...assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction!"

"Shiva" wrote:
"threefold31" wrote:
Now presuming you really do have "The Gematria Key of Liber AL vel Legis", what exactly does it convey? What mystery does it solve beyond the concept that 'it's all in the egg'?

Exactly!

phluphy_phlu, I would also like you to explain what it is exactly, that your presumed findings does convey about The Book of the Law.

As an example I will provide the following explanation of the II:76 cipher solution presented by me here http://www.lashtal.com/forum/http://www.lashtal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=84437#p84437, where the method (which is presented in the OP of the referred to thread) that is required for finding the verses within The Book of the Law, which the said II:76 cipher solution leads to, might be the 'simplest' one as it requires no use of any Gematria, Qabalah or Tarot, because all that is required according to the said method is already "Written and Concealed." (= the closing words of The Book of the Law's last chapter) within the II:76 Cipher itself:

4 6 3 8 A B K 2 4 A L G M O R 3 Y X 24 89 R P S T O V A L [2 and 4 and 8 and 9 are here read as "Written and Concealed." (= the closing words of The Book of the Law's last chapter) within the numbers 24 and 89 contained within the II:76 Cipher quoted at the beginning of this sentence.]

4 [chapter I, verse 4], 4 is the number of this verse.
6 [chapter I, verse 6], 6 is the number of this verse.
3 [chapter I, verse 3], 3 is the number of this verse.
8 [chapter I, verse 8], 8 is the number of this verse.
A [chapter I, verse 14], first word read from right; Ankh-af-na-khonsu!],
B [chapter I, verse 26], first word read from right; body.],
K [chapter I, verse 8], first word read from right; Khabs.],
2 [chapter I, verse 2], 2 is the number of this verse.
4 [chapter II, verse 4], 4 is the number of this verse.
A [chapter I, verse 23], first word read from right; all!],
L [chapter I, verse 12], first word read from right; love!],
G [chapter II, verse 40], first word read from right; Gods.],
M [chapter I, verse 5], first word read from right; men!], ---
O [chapter I, verse 31], first word read from right; ones.],
R [chapter I, verse 36], first word read from right; Ra-Hoor-Khui.]
Y [chapter I, verse 9], first word read from right; you!],
X [chapter II, verse 69], first word read from right; exhausted?],
2 [chapter II, verse 2], 2 is the number of this verse.
4 [chapter III, verse 4], 4 is the number of this verse.
8 [chapter II, verse 8], 8 is the number of this verse.
9 [chapter I, verse 9], 9 is the number of this verse.
R [chapter I, verse 52], first word read from right; Ra-Hoor-Khuit!],
P [chapter I, verse 44], first word read from right; perfect.],
S [chapter I, verse 3], first word read from right; star.],
T [chapter I, verse 6], first word read from right; tongue!],
O [chapter I, verse 38], first word read from right; ordeals.],
V [chapter II, verse 54], first word read from right; value!],
A [chapter I, verse 30], first word read from right; all!],
L [chapter I, verse 33], first word read from right; law!]

Given that the above referred to II:76 cipher solution really is the correct one, what exactly does it convey besides corresponding with the certainty of the most likely author of the The Book of the Law, Aleister Crowley, concerning that the said solution will be marked by the most sublime simplicity?

What for example, does it convey that "III:4. Choose ye an island!", is the only verse from the 3rd chapter of The Book of the Law, that the said II:76 very simple cipher solution leads to, and does this indicate that the said 3rd chapter is of lesser importance than the the two preceding chapter?

The following, which is the larger context within which the verse "III:4. Choose ye an island!" is written, does not indicate that the said 3rd chapter is of a lesser importance: 

"1. Abrahadabra; the reward of Ra Hoor Khut. 2. There is division hither homeward; there is a word not known. Spelling is defunct; all is not aught. Beware! Hold! Raise the spell of Ra-Hoor-Khuit! 3. Now let it be first understood that I am a god of War and of Vengeance. I shall deal hardly with them. 4. Choose ye an island! 5. Fortify it! 6. Dung it about with enginery of war! 7. I will give you a war-engine. 8. With it ye shall smite the peoples; and none shall stand before you."

The above referred to II:76 cipher solution's emphasis on only the verse "III:4. Choose ye an island!" in the 3rd chapter of The Book of the Law, does rather indicate that it is not possible for anyone or anything to ultimately distract one from a choice corresponding with a manifestation of the Law of Thelema, and that Ra Hoor Khuit (= "The True Self of each individual") will deal hardly with anyone trying to obstruct the said Law, as Ra Hoor Khuit corresponds with the said Law, and will be like "a war-engine" (III:7.), in "the strength, force, vigour, of your arms.", which Ra Hoor Khut represents (III:17.). Ra Hoor Khuit will also "bring you to victory & joy:", "be at your arms in battle & ye shall delight to slay.", and those who act in line with the "strength" of Ra Hoor Khuit, "shall turn not back for any!" (III:46.).

This is also in line with Crowley's statement in Magick in Theory and Practice - Introduction and Theorems: "9) A Man who is doing his True Will has the inertia of the Universe to assist him.", that is, it is not possible for anyone or anything to ultimately distract one from a choice corresponding with "the inertia of the Universe".

Also, that The Book of the Law militates against making up differences within Nuit (= manifested existence and all possibility), indicates that the island in the verse "III:4. Choose ye an island!", does not refer to an actual island in manifested existence:   

"I:22. Now, therefore, I am known to ye by my name Nuit, and to him by a secret name which I will give him when at last he knoweth me. Since I am Infinite Space, and the Infinite Stars thereof, do ye also thus. Bind nothing! Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby there cometh hurt." 

This is also in line with Crowley's statement in Magick in Theory and Practice - Introduction and Theorems: "10) Nature is a continuous phenomenon, though we may not know in all cases how things are connected."


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William Thirteen
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09/04/2015 7:06 am  

that's two 'simplest' solutions, can we get a third?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Christs_of_Ypsilanti


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wellreadwellbred
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09/04/2015 1:10 pm  
"WilliamThirteen" wrote:
that's two 'simplest' solutions, can we get a third?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Christs_of_Ypsilanti

The wikipedia link provided by you leads to a book-length psychiatric case study by Milton Rokeach, detailing the interactions of the three patients, Clyde Benson, Joseph Cassel, and Leon Gabor, who each believed himself to be Jesus Christ.

In this thread it is only elitemachinery's Reply #15 on: March 31, 2015, 07:27:43 am - http://www.lashtal.com/forum/http://www.lashtal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13.msg89367#msg89367, which seems to involve a belief about being the reincarnation of Aleister Crowley. Would you care to clarify WilliamThirteen, what me in this thread explaining the simple solution for the II:76 Cipher that I discovered, has to do with The Three Christs of Ypsilanti case?

For the sake of clarity, in my Reply #69 on: November 05, 2014, 02:34:26 pm in the particular thread about the simple solution for the II:76 Cipher that I discovered, http://www.lashtal.com/forum/http://www.lashtal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=85899#p85899, I deny that my discovery of the II:76 Cipher solution, means that I am some kind of "child" ("I:54. Change not as much as the style of a letter; for behold! thou, o prophet, shalt not behold all these mysteries hidden therein. II:55. The child of thy bowels, he shall behold them.") that shall succeed Aleister Crowley.

Also, my reading of The Book of the Law's verse "I:55. The child of thy bowels, he shall behold them.", as a hint from Crowley about the said book being a boy child (= Horus?) derived from, and inspired by, an instance of anal (= "thy bowels") sex magic, does also militate against me or anyone else being the child referred to in the said verse.

"Shiva" wrote:
... "Be...assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction!"

If we are to believe AC, it will be simple and unquestionable. So, I'm asking questions and looking for simplocity.

Shiva, you keep repeating Aleister Crowley's claim about that the II:76 Cipher solution will be simple and unquestionable, so I repeat my question:

How could Crowley be so certain that the II:76 Cipher solution will be simple and unquestionable, if he did not author The Book of the Law?


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SatansAdvocaat
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09/04/2015 2:33 pm  

And the beat goes on, and on....

Just a thanks to threefold31 for alerting us to his "Secrets of the Cipher Naughts" - a fascinating, commendable and good-humoured survey of some solutions, to date, of AL.II.76.

93,93/93.

Frater 645 '.'


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Shiva
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09/04/2015 3:30 pm  
"wellreadwellbred" wrote:
How could Crowley be so certain that the II:76 Cipher solution will be simple and unquestionable, if he did not author The Book of the Law?

"My scribe Ankh-af-na-khonsu, the priest of the princes, shall not in one letter change this book; but lest there be folly, he shall comment thereupon by the wisdom of Ra-Hoor-Khuit." - AL I:36

That (^) is one answer.

Undermining that (^) answer is: (1) Do we "believe" that AC was "Ankh?"  (2) Do we believe in reincarnation?  (3) Do we believe that A "Comment" extends to a "Commentary?"  (4) Do we believe that AC was (or was not) the author? (5) Et cetera - see countless other threads regarding what we "believe."

The word "believe" is embedded in all considerations. Nothing is proven, except that AC apparently produced a Book of the Law that he published. All questions of the source (authorship) of the text are up for debate and non-provable.  Much of the Legend of Cairo falls into the same category, and much of the historically-unfolding result seem to be part of the Spiritual Con.

I don't care what Crowley said.  It's me (myself & I) that demands simplicity ... or at least a complex solution that can be simply applied to some new and/or practical solution.


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wellreadwellbred
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10/04/2015 11:19 am  
"wellreadwellbred" wrote:
... In this thread it is only elitemachinery's Reply #15 on: March 31, 2015, 07:27:43 am - http://www.lashtal.com/forum/http://www.lashtal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13.msg89367#msg89367, which seems to involve a belief about being the reincarnation of Aleister Crowley. ...

elitemachinery's reply to this thread about Various II:76 Cipher solutions, contains an image of a birth-certificate containing the name Michael Sean Tierney. On the Internet Richard Wolstencroft's documentary The Last Days of Joe Blow (2013), is referred to as "a portrait of actor Micheal Tierney (the nephew of Hollywood B-legend Lawrence Tierney),", and the said Micheal Tierney is described as having "numerous ghosts in the closet, and paranoia gnaws at his back. It probably didn't help maintaining a blog on Aleister Crowley for a while." Source: http://www.cultprojections.com/horrorphile/one-week-in-the-jaws-of-the-monster-fest-beast

My first question in respect of the subject-matter of this thread, Various II:76 Cipher solutions, is: Does the above mentioned documentary film about Micheal Tierney, refer to a II:76 Cipher solution?

And my second question in respect of the subject-matter of this thread, Various II:76 Cipher solutions, is: If the said documentary film refers to a II:76 Cipher solution, is this the first or only instance where a published film refers to a II:76 Cipher solution?


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