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katrice
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Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux
Posted by: @ignant666

 

I can't think who it was who asked, in re the '80s-'90s London chaos magick crowd as i recall, "If you're all such powerful magicians, why are you all broke with no girlfriends?"

But I could ask that of any Zen Master.   

I wouldn't regard ignant's remark as a "silly statement". On the other hand, from what I understand, I wouldn't have thought that the average Zen Master was working for money or a paramour, but instead was focused on satori.

 

I am certain that Dom understood that when he posted and was just being a gadfly, which seems like something he enjoys doing.

 

Katrice you didn't make the silly statement I replied to.

I am aware of this, thank you.


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux
Posted by: @ignant666

 

I can't think who it was who asked, in re the '80s-'90s London chaos magick crowd as i recall, "If you're all such powerful magicians, why are you all broke with no girlfriends?"

But I could ask that of any Zen Master.   

I wouldn't regard ignant's remark as a "silly statement". On the other hand, from what I understand, I wouldn't have thought that the average Zen Master was working for money or a paramour, but instead was focused on satori.

 

You don't know much about Chaos Magick either do you?

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Michael Staley
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

You don't know much about Chaos Magick either do you?

Since I take no interest in it, then probably no I don't. Excuse me if I don't hang my head in shame.


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

You don't know much about Chaos Magick either do you?

Since I take no interest in it, then probably no I don't. Excuse me if I don't hang my head in shame.

Besides do you also (like the idiot who made that statement that Ignant is fond of) view the state of  being single and being on a low income as being 'weak'?  The lowest form of buffoon (or should that be baboon?) uses his girlfriend and/or material status symbols as trophies.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

 

You don't know much about Chaos Magick either do you?

 

Xiqual choyofaque


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

 

You don't know much about Chaos Magick either do you?

 

Xiqual choyofaque

Hahaharr.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux
Posted by: @katrice
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

 

You don't know much about Chaos Magick either do you?

 

Xiqual choyofaque

Hahaharr.

Aepalizage


Shiva
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Good Lord and His/Her Forty Tax-collectors!  I see the thread has lost traction and, even though it has 4-wheel drive and huge mud-tyres (with spikes), it is sliding toward the Abyss that has no bottom.

This thread is now as incomprehensible as the Cipher (Code, Puzzle, Key, Unknown, Whatever) it was created to discuss (not necessarily solve).

Whenever I get as confused as this thread, I dismiss all thoughts of solving puzzles and becoming the Magic-hole Aire, and I go back to practicing asana and pranayama.


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

You don't know much about Chaos Magick either do you?

Since I take no interest in it, then probably no I don't. Excuse me if I don't hang my head in shame.

It's not all about low-level sorcery. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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the_real_simon_iff
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Posted by: @shiva

This thread is now as incomprehensible as the Cipher (Code, Puzzle, Key, Unknown, Whatever) it was created to discuss (not necessarily solve).

Since Lashtal is not an occult site as we know, these discussions would hardly find a place in any forum here. So they must be commenced as a kind of side-discussions on whatever AC thread that is avilable, and one must hope not to get too off-topic.

 


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @ahihchiva567

 

No, it's purpose is to fulfill a promise made long ago; it was meant for one person, and one person alone. Was it designed by AC? No...it was designed by, let's say, ALLASTAR.

Designed for a special one?  A chosen one?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Shiva
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

... one must hope not to get too off-topic.

I understand (all) that. At times, I am a prime offender. It always gets way too off-topic, usually descending into the incredibly incredulous personae (plural) of various actors, pretenders, and pundits.

Anyway, since I am a guilty sinner, I'd not say, "Stop It!" - I'm just running the observatory sideline commentary service (OSKS = 210).

 


katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

Good Lord and His/Her Forty Tax-collectors!  I see the thread has lost traction and, even though it has 4-wheel drive and huge mud-tyres (with spikes), it is sliding toward the Abyss that has no bottom.

With the diversion to Chaos Magick, I'd call it more Daathian than Abyssal, given the planet Chaos Magick is associated with.

Posted by: @shiva

This thread is now as incomprehensible as the Cipher (Code, Puzzle, Key, Unknown, Whatever) it was created to discuss (not necessarily solve).

I just threw a couple of the more commonly-known terms from Ouranian Barbaric out there to let Dom know that there's at least one person with some knowledge of Chaos Magick here.

 

That said, "If you're all such powerful magicians, why are you all broke with no girlfriends?" does seem like a rather crass way to address the idea. Maybe a better way would be to ask "But are you happy?", which can be a surprisingly armor-piercing question.

 

Posted by: @shiva

I go back to practicing asana and pranayama.

 

What is always a good thing to do in one's spare time.

 


Michael Staley
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Posted by: @shiva

I understand (all) that. At times, I am a prime offender. It always gets way too off-topic, usually descending into the incredibly incredulous personae (plural) of various actors, pretenders, and pundits.

It's often a symptom of a topic having run its course, at least for the time being. The cypher/riddle of AL.II.76 is a case in point. It's a source of fascination to many, and since new would-be solutions come along in packs like London buses, future resurrection is guaranteed.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

With the diversion to Chaos Magick, I'd call it more Daathian ...

I wasn't referring to Chaos Magic, but to the dagger-wielding personae who are needling each other(s), creating ions, causing climate change. But I won't point fingers or wands, because I, even I, have been known to throw a barb or utter a sarcasm.

 

image

 


kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @ahihchiva567

I see nothing fascinating about II.76,

I found it quite fascinating. It's a puzzle put forth in this cryptic, prophetic and formidable book, a puzzle which declares itself solved by the Magical Child of the Prophet. The doors open and in pour the contenders. But here's the thing: AC clearly stated it was Achad who solved it. Case closed according to the Prophet. So why do others come jangling in after the fact with new interpretations?

 

Unless AC was wrong about Achad's solution. But Crowley's affirmation of the unlocking of the puzzle had nothing to do with his later break with Jones. No matter what his ultimate assessment of Jones was, his embrace of the solution remains. According to Crowley, Jones solved the riddle and proved himself the “Child” foretold.

 

I'm simply saying that contenders for a “solution” are all rejecting Crowley's assessment of Achad-and this assessment of the revelation is not the same thing as Crowley's declaration of Achad as “insane.”

 

Crowley wrote that the author of the book (who was not himself) demonstrated Power and Authority beyond what any mere human could demonstrate. In other words, Aiwass entered the Arena of “Put up or shut up” and bested all.

 

But he didn't, did he? We are as unconvinced by his “proofs” as we are by Crowley's claims regarding “sex magick.” It's all an alluring idea. But in the end...


Shiva
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Posted by: @ahihchiva567

Can it be resurrected? Can a man speak so plainly?

Sure. Why not? After all, grand-dad Perdurabo said he would be a Magus. I suspect the solution will arise of its own accord when the time is aligned and the Magus is in Wu-wei.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

... in pour the contenders.

Please form a lineage to the right. You may set up your tents and poop on the south side of the line. Please have your solution at hand when your name is called. Register by sig and date at the front door. All (any) registrations will be called within 30 days. Please pick up your trash.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

 

Unless AC was wrong about Achad's solution.

Huh? I guess I missed something, somewhere along the Path. AC recognized Achad's key of "31" (AL)(LA). Are you saying he also recognized Achad as solving *RP STOVAL?


kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

Are you saying he also recognized Achad as solving *RP STOVAL?

Yes. This is exactly what I am saying.


 Anonymous
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @kidneyhawk

 

Unless AC was wrong about Achad's solution.

Huh? I guess I missed something, somewhere along the Path. AC recognized Achad's key of "31" (AL)(LA). Are you saying he also recognized Achad as solving *RP STOVAL?

Crowley summed RPSTOVAL add up to the number 418 (this is done by if the letter combination of ST, or Shin-Tet, is made to equal number 31). Crowley also send Achad the message "Thou knowest not. Your key opens Palace."

 

Palace 418 is at least referenced in Liber 813/Ararita in chapter II, that concerns Not. So Achad's key as LA (Not) could be seen as "opening" the Palace 418 (RPSTOVAL) if the whole cipher is taken as a Qabalistic solution and read from right to left (as is done with Hebrew). I remain unconvinced by Achad's actual solution to the rest of the puzzle. But I can see the logic by which Crowley said that Achad's "key opens Palace" if we accept Crowley's own gematria for RPSTOVAL = 418.


Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Yes. This is exactly what I am saying.

I note that you are also saying ...

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Unless AC was wrong about Achad's solution.

I guess I'm not in any position to comment, because I don't know what Achad's solution was/is. Any quote, link, or explanation would be appreciated.

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

Am I missing something here?

It depends on your "level of consciousness" - at any given moment. If you're starting to climb the hill, you are encouraged to study Qabalah. You will be tested. QBL is for "ordering the mind." Sometimes it gets creative and creates more problems than order in the mind.

If you've sat upon the mountain-top, looking down at all the spirals and lines, but breathing fresh air, the puzzles and uncertainties, the fun and the sad, are but shadows. And who would want to dwell on them?

Posted by: @behemoth

I can see the logic by which Crowley said that Achad's "key opens Palace" if we accept Crowley's own gematria for RPSTOVAL = 418.

Thank you for the elucidation. I do not know anything deeper than superficial about Hebrew, So I don't know if it's legal to sub a Sh for a S but, yeah, I can see the Key to Palace 418. It's hardly an exposition of the whole mystery, but I always liked the name R.P. Stoval. However, I remain unimpressed by BafometR, and Fudging the QBL is not my style.

 


Aleisterion
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Posted by: @shiva

However, I remain unimpressed by BafometR

Baphe-Mitra. 


Michael Staley
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

AC clearly stated it was Achad who solved it.

Certainly Crowley thought that at one time. When in September 1919 Achad presented him with Liber 31, giving AL & LA as the key to Liber AL, Crowley's initial reaction a day or two after receiving it was via telegram:

\ = 418. “Thou knowest not.” Your key opens Palace. CCXX has unfolded like a flower. All solved, even II.76 and III.47. Did you know Π = 3.141593? And oh! lots more!

However, Crowley later changed his mind, saying in the New Comment to AL.II.75:

This passage following appears to be a Qabalistic test (on the regular pattern) of any person who may claim to be the Magical Heir of the Beast. Be ye well assured all that the solution, when it is found, will be unquestionable. It will be marked by the most sublime simplicity, and carry immediate conviction.

To my mind this makes clear that, however he felt in September 1919, by the time he wrote this section of the New Comment (at Cefalu), he had reconsidered his initial conviction that II.76 had been solved.


ignant666
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Posted by: @shiva

I always liked the name R.P. Stoval.

Back in the Good Old Days (before Giuliani was mayor) of the NYPD giving "desk appearance tickets" (aka "disappearance tickets"), rather than arresting, for minor offenses such as jumping subway turnstiles, fighting, drinking, or smoking reefer in the street, and public urination, i was summonsed by New York's Finest on several occasions as "Randall Patrick Stoval", "Rufus Peter Stoval", etc.

Mr. Stoval's birthday was sometimes October 12, and sometimes from April 8-10. I also received DATs as "Oliver Haddo" (when i was being DAT'ed for smoking reefer); similar birthdates employed.


threefold31
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Dwtw

 

Part of the solution to II:76 uses a simple formula given elsewhere in the text of CCXX:

 

I:46 “Nothing is a secret key of this law. Sixty-one the Jews call it; I call it eight, eighty, four hundred & eighteen.”

61 as Nothing is the Hebrew word AIN (alef-yod-nun) meaning Nothing, whose letters have the values of 1-10-50

The numbers given by Nuit are then 8 times those values: 8-80-400

This is followed by an ampersand, and the number 18. This indicates that 18 is added to the formula at the end. Thus, the formula is simply X = 8n + 18.

A simple proof of the formula is using Nuit’s own number 56, which she says is her ‘word’ in verse 24 (remember how many 24’s there are in this Cipher?). 56 is commonly understood to mean her name as the Hebrew word NU (nun-vav), and plugging that into her formula:

X = (8*56) + 18

X = 466 = NUIT in Hebrew

 

Now do the same thing with the sum of the numbers in the Cipher:

X = (8*143) + 18

X = 1162

Why is this number significant? For one thing, it is in Golden Ratio to one of the four numerals given in the text, the ‘name’ of the Stele of Revealing:

1162 / 718 = 1.6183 – Phi accurate to three decimal places.

1162 is also an adumbration of the Word of the Next Aeon, which is Katalysis, classical Greek for Dissolution.

So, part of the solution to the Cipher involves 1162 via the formula given by Nuit as part of the ‘secret key of this law.”

 

Litlluw

RLG


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Shiva
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Posted by: @michael-staley

To my mind this makes clear that, however he felt in September 1919, by the time he wrote this section of the New Comment (at Cefalu), he had reconsidered his initial conviction that II.76 had been solved.

I see. Obviously, there was/is some room for confusion. But in the end (which is today), we're all back at the beginning.

In my mind, the story says Achad "found" 31, which is/was the Key. Then Therion look Achad's 31 and hooked it up with his 418, proclaiming, "Achad, my son, you have solved the longer mystery!" Which he (Achad) had not (solved) at all.

Posted by: @ignant666

I also received DATs as "Oliver Haddo"

Please turn yourself quietly into The Desk. Your soul will be uplifted by ridding yourself of the constant, nagging guilt.

 


ignant666
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Posted by: @threefold31

a simple formula

Hardy-har-har; it is to laugh.

You honestly believe these fourteen (14) paragraphs are in any way "simple" (let alone "sublimely" so), or likely to inspire "immediate conviction", let alone "unquestionable"?

Then, of course, there is the fact that your fourteen (14) paragraphs simply don't provide any sort of "solution" to the cypher.

Posted by: @threefold31

adumbration

Can you also please explain:

What is meant by the word "adumbration"  in the sentence ''1162 is also an adumbration of the Word of the Next Aeon"? How does one number "vaguely foreshadow" or "give a rough outline of" another number/Word?

And how we know that the "Word of the Next Aeon" is "Katalysis"?

And why this purported Aeonic word (for the post-3904 E.V. or so period, presumably) means "dissolution", and not "increasing the rate of a reaction by adding a catalyst"?


ignant666
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Posted by: @shiva

Please turn yourself quietly into The Desk. Your soul will be uplifted by ridding yourself of the constant, nagging guilt.

All previous New York state and city criminal, and non-criminal violation level, records of convictions, records of charges, and outstanding bench warrants, for all cannabis offenses have been expunged from the records following the complete legalization of cannabis in April of this year.

"Mr. Stoval", "Mr. Haddo" (and Dr. ignant) are thus now free of any criminal records, wants or warrants stemming from any such offenses whether arrests or DATs, and, if any of these persons ever suffered any "constant, nagging guilt" stemming from such matters, that guilt is also presumably expunged.

It is true that NY has yet to legalize jumping subway turnstiles, fighting or drinking in the street, and public urination. Fortunately, these violation-level, non-criminal, offenses have a statute of limitations that bans prosecution or enforcement after one year.


Damien
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Posted by: @katrice

Take a bunch of words and numbers, put the words through every form of phonetic spelling imaginable, through a few other languages, then through pig latin, then put all of that through notarikon and nine chambers,sprinkle liberally with + and =, and arrange in to a post.

 

One of the finest definitions of "gematria" there is. 


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threefold31
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Posted by: @ignant666

Hardy-har-har; it is to laugh.

You honestly believe these fourteen (14) paragraphs are in any way "simple" (let alone "sublimely" so), or likely to inspire "immediate conviction", let alone "unquestionable"?

Then, of course, there is the fact that your fourteen (14) paragraphs simply don't provide any sort of "solution" to the cypher.

Can you also please explain:

What is meant by the word "adumbration"  in the sentence ''1162 is also an adumbration of the Word of the Next Aeon"? How does one number "vaguely foreshadow" or "give a rough outline of" another number/Word?

And how we know that the "Word of the Next Aeon" is "Katalysis"?

And why this purported Aeonic word (for the post-3904 E.V. or so period, presumably) means "dissolution", and not "increasing the rate of a reaction by adding a catalyst"?

Dwtw

Yes, I honestly believe that X = 8N + 18 is a simple formula. The various paragraphs give the necessary background, and an example.

It is a simple fact of arithmetic that 718 and 1162 are related via the Golden Ratio. As for A.C.'s criteria, my OP was not intended to engage with them, since, as I stated, this is not the full solution to the Cipher.

The number derived from this formula foreshadows the Word of the following Aeon because it has the same value, even though that Word was not derived from the Cipher.

The word of the Next Aeon is Katalysis, as uttered by the Magus Omega Logion, as noted in another thread on these fora in 2020.

The classical Greek meaning of Katalysis is 'a dissolving' but that doesn't preclude it's understanding in the modern chemical sense as well, especially if considered as a metaphor for the adept acting as a catalyst.

 

Litlluw

RLG


ignant666
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Posted by: @ignant666

What is meant by the word ""  in the sentence ''1162 is also an adumbration of the Word of the Next Aeon"? How does one number "vaguely foreshadow" or "give a rough outline of" another number/Word?

You have responded to almost all my questions, but not this one.

BTW: Merry xmas to all! And no, i do not mean Little Baby Jeebus' Birthday, but the splendid Saturnalia/post-Solstice commercial celebration that late capitalism has created, where we give each other stuff, get drunk, and are nice to each other.

My favorite xmas song that is not by G.G. Allin:

https://youtu.be/cX-ZpGcVYnA

My other favorite xmas song (that is by Jesus Christ Allin, aka "G.G."; do not play around small children who might not know what is meant by "two pecker rubs", etc; extremely obscene and NSFW (why are you working now?)):

https://youtu.be/syPhgAjmbnM


kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @ignant666

BTW: Merry xmas to all! And no, i do not mean Little Baby Jeebus' Birthday, but the splendid Saturnalia/post-Solstice commercial celebration that late capitalism has created, where we give each other stuff, get drunk, and are nice to each other.

And to you, Ignant-and ALL Lashtalians! I'll hope to comment further re: Achad's solution and Crowley's reaction(s) but for the moment, a Merry Christmas to everyone here howsoever you shall spend the day. Giving gifts, getting drunk and being nice sounds like a plan even the Son of Man could get behind!

Cheers and 93! 🙂  


Michael Staley
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Posted by: @damien

One of the finest definitions of "gematria" there is.

I doubt it, but each to his own.

Myself a gematria-phobe until sometime in the 1990s, I have come to appreciate it a lot. In my view it has to be tied in to experience and merged with intuition, and thus the number becomes an index to a sensation or a cluster of sensations. The first number that went into my own record of gematria was 33, because that number occurred in what struck me as the most meaningful session in Crowley's The Amalantrah Working, a working which has fascinated me for many years now. Over the years, the record of numbers has gradually expanded, growing from my magical and mystical experience as well as feeding into and stimulating that experience.

There is a parallel here with Spare's Sacred Alphabet, the letters of which he describes in The Book of Pleasure as sensation externalised and rendered graphically. The letters themselves have influences apparent from other alphabets such as Enochian, sigils from the Goetia, etc.

Perhaps not quite what some like to dismiss as "number noodling", but it works for me.

 


Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

offenses have been expunged

Oh? Well, then ... never mind.

Posted by: @ignant666

after one year.

Please, please ... forget it. If there's nothing to hold over your head, then you're of no further use to us. By the way, did you have anything to do with that law (and the subsequent burning of the docs), or was it your wife?


Damien
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Posted by: @michael-staley

I doubt it, but each to his own.

 

Gematria was in quotes because what katrice described was, of course, not gematria. It's numerology, or a search for meaning, significance and relationship along sketchy lines, or something else, but not gematria.

Posted by: @michael-staley

In my view it has to be tied in to experience and merged with intuition

I know of no definition of gematria that entails these criteria. 

Posted by: @michael-staley

There is a parallel here with Spare's Sacred Alphabet, the letters of which he describes in The Book of Pleasure as sensation externalised and rendered graphically.

But which isn't gematria and, to the best of my knowledge (which could be tremendously lacking), has nothing to do with it.

Again, though, I was appreciating katrice's tongue in cheek comment. 

 

 


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Aleisterion
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Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @michael-staley

In my view it has to be tied in to experience and merged with intuition

I know of no definition of gematria that entails these criteria. 

Mr. Staley is right, experience and intuition are essential to good gematria - as they are working with Tarot, or interacting with and deciphering paranormal intelligence. Damien, I don't know you, but I do know that you're picking on your betters and it shows. 


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @damien
Posted by: @michael-staley

In my view it has to be tied in to experience and merged with intuition

I know of no definition of gematria that entails these criteria. 

You are ignorant, no offence.   Gematria is related to individuation for want of a better term.  It's uses are akin to someone expressing themselves  with a paint brush using water colours on a painter's canvass.   It's for them and them alone.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Michael Staley
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Posted by: @aleisterion

Mr. Staley is right, experience and intuition are essential to good gematria - as they are working with Tarot, or interacting with and deciphering paranormal intelligence. Damien, I don't know you, but I do know that you're picking on your betters and it shows. 

I felt sure that you would recognise what I meant, Aleisterion. However, I don't think that Damien is picking on his betters, but simply maintaining that gematria is something within specific and recognised bounds or conforming to certain criteria, and that anything outwith those definitions is not gematria. It's no skin off my nose.


Michael Staley
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

It's uses are akin to someone expressing themselves  with a paint brush using water colours on a painter's canvass.

I certainly agree with this.


the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @ignant666

You have responded to almost all my questions, but not this one.

You probably have to study the magus' blog: https://omegalogion.wordpress.com/


katrice
(@katrice)
Black Soror, Selfie-stick poseur
Joined: 12 months ago
Posts: 732
 
Posted by: @michael-staley

There is a parallel here with Spare's Sacred Alphabet, the letters of which he describes in The Book of Pleasure as sensation externalised and rendered graphically.

The crafting of a personal alphabet of sigils, going so far as to use it to map one's own internal universe, can produce a powerful tool, and serve as initiatory work unto itself.

 

Posted by: @damien

Again, though, I was appreciating katrice's tongue in cheek comment. 

Thank you.

Gematria has its uses, but I get extremely frustrated with how many people use it, posting walls of numbers and words at though those things speak for themselves, or holding that a coincidence of word and numerical value somehow proves something universally significant.  Or how it's so often used to validate UPG, or used to "disprove" another's work that one does not like. Or the manipulations that I joked about in my post where if conventional methods don't line up with what the person wanted them to they start altering the language, spelling, or method, or turn words in to phrases, until they get the result they want.  And how often use of gematria can devolve in to pointless apophenia. 

But I do see it as a valid way of training the mind to form correspondences, and even some of the things that I mention in the above paragraph can lead to that too. 

And Crowley clearly got good use out of it. 

But like many other methods of gaining information from nonordinary methods, it has its hazards if approached in an unbalanced way.  

 

Posted by: @aleisterion

Damien, I don't know you, but I do know that you're picking on your betters and it shows. 

More accurately, I was the one who was picking on my betters, and Damien was simply reacting to it. I apologize if my comment came across as overly harsh.  I obviously have a frustration trigger there. 

 

 

Anyway, Merry Christmas, Happy Yule, Saturnalia,  Mithrasmas, Pancha Ganapati, or whatever you choose to celebrate or not celebrate today, to everyone here at LAShTAL! 😊 

 


Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 6990
 
Posted by: @damien

I know of no definition of gematria that entails these criteria. 

Intuition and direct experience, being suprarational, are a bit "above" Gematria and other word-games. This is the place from which one can laugh at the whole ridiculous contruct.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Gematria ... It's for them and them alone.

Aha! The first great revelation of Xmas morn.

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

Little more reason to believe (or care) about the Achad story. 

The Achad Story is The Poster Boy Extravaganza of early Thelema. Since Achad did not blow up in an explosion, or drink poison water, or have trouble breathing due to bycycle chains in his pockets, I am ready to assume that Achad was a survivor (he continued after A.C.), because anybody who keeps truckin' has a story to tell.

Posted by: @katrice

walls of numbers

The numeration is on the wall.

Posted by: @katrice

More accurately, I was the one who was picking on my betters

Who are these "betters?" Please submit a list of their civil and screen names, with criteria indicating what they are "better" at (or even "best"). 

 


Damien
(@damien)
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Posts: 68
 
Posted by: @michael-staley

However, I don't think that Damien is picking on his betters, but simply maintaining that gematria is something within specific and recognised bounds or conforming to certain criteria, and that anything outwith those definitions is not gematria. It's no skin off my nose.

That's literally all I was saying. I never pick on people. It's all just good conversation and learning. 


Damien
(@damien)
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Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 68
 
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

You are ignorant, no offence. 

Haha, ok. 


Damien
(@damien)
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Posts: 68
 
Posted by: @katrice

The crafting of a personal alphabet of sigils, going so far as to use it to map one's own internal universe, can produce a powerful tool, and serve as initiatory work unto itself.

It's arguably necessary. I don't have a copy of Regardie's original Golden Dawn anymore but the book begins with a quote endorsing this exact enterprise. 

Posted by: @katrice

Gematria has its uses, but I get extremely frustrated with how many people use it, posting walls of numbers and words at though those things speak for themselves, or holding that a coincidence of word and numerical value somehow proves something universally significant. 

Exactly right. I DO think that the coincidence of word and value can have tremendous subjective significance, and the extent to which you allow yourself to run away with this significance is personal business, but the assumption that such significance somehow extends beyond the personal and subjective is exhausting.

Posted by: @katrice

And how often use of gematria can devolve in to pointless apophenia. 

Yep. 

Posted by: @katrice

More accurately, I was the one who was picking on my betters, and Damien was simply reacting to it. I apologize if my comment came across as overly harsh.  I obviously have a frustration trigger there. 

 

Yeah, it's her fault. 😉

Merry Everything to all (the numerical value of which, either counting or not counting the Y's or final G, is equal to pretty much anything you want it to be equal to)!


katrice
(@katrice)
Black Soror, Selfie-stick poseur
Joined: 12 months ago
Posts: 732
 
Posted by: @shiva

Intuition and direct experience, being suprarational, are a bit "above" Gematria and other word-games. This is the place from which one can laugh at the whole ridiculous contruct.

Agreed. Gematria is mostly of the rational, and therefore has the limits associated with the rational. But maybe part of the idea is to ultimately show the limits of the rational?

 

Posted by: @shiva

Aha! The first great revelation of Xmas morn.

Indeed!

 

Posted by: @shiva

Who are these "betters?" Please submit a list of their civil and screen names, with criteria indicating what they are "better" at (or even "best"). 

I'm not really certain, I was just going with the way it was phrased.

 

Posted by: @damien

It's arguably necessary. I don't have a copy of Regardie's original Golden Dawn anymore but the book begins with a quote endorsing this exact enterprise. 

The method I use is to focus on the idea I want a sigil for while in a receptive state while setting the intention to receive a sigil to represent the idea. 

Posted by: @damien

Exactly right. I DO think that the coincidence of word and value can have tremendous subjective significance, and the extent to which you allow yourself to run away with this significance is personal business, but the assumption that such significance somehow extends beyond the personal and subjective is exhausting.

Agreed. Keeping the perspective that it is UPG, and also focusing on practical application of what is gained, is key.

 

Posted by: @damien

Yeah, it's her fault. 😉

Completely my fault.  😉 

 

Posted by: @damien

Merry Everything to all (the numerical value of which, either counting or not counting the Y's or final G, is equal to pretty much anything you want it to be equal to)!

😊

 


Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 6990
 
Posted by: @ahihchiva567

it could be shoved down your throat so much that you do start to GET IT.

This is the basic conecept of Primary Education, the so-called gramma skool. After they shoved it enough, we all spoke the same lingo (with territorial accents and twangs) and we all added the numbers up to the same sum and change - so that deadly fights don't break out with every transaction.

There are certain religions (most of them? all?) that practice shoveling, also.

But shoveling is forbidden, oh man, unto thee on the ascending Path. Everybody's got to cut their own way through the jungle. Everyone must build their own QBL. But it is convenient to start from the basic Hebrew alphabeta [alephbeth] - that way others will be able to figure out what you're saying (or trying to say), and fewer dirt clods and split rotten tomatoes will need to be swept off the forum floor, after hours.

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

certain words stick, and latter analysis proves consistent with correspondence attached to the Atu and the Tree.

Exactly, ah so!  "Analysis after the fact" is the tool taught to us by Therion.

But he was also a fiddler. Fiddling QBL is where one says, "... but if I substitute a D for a G, my sum will be 418, and my case will be proven."

So other folks take notice of the fiddling method and they start to confuse the planes letters. Eventually, they prove that they are the chosen one.

I have olde news: Everybody here is chosen. They chose themselves. And I'll bet everyone here has at least one True Tale of [acausal] Synchonicity that tells how they came to be chosen ... by themselves ... with help from some spooky concept.

 


Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 6990
 
Posted by: @ahihchiva567

some of us still garble when speaking. 

It has to do with the 3rd neurocircuit imprint. Gargling may disappear after Geburah (6th circuit - where things can be changed.

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

Isn't the mark of Cain, the same as the mark of the Beast?

I dunno. I never thought about it. I have no idea what "the Mark of Cain" looks like. The Mark of the Beast seems to be a cross inside a circle, which is featured in Degree Number One of Saladin'e tent, Laylah's chest, and the Ku Klux Klan. 

image

Wow! What a set of choices.

To further complicate the hologram, other folks may wish to nominate the Unicursal Hexagram, or even the 7-pointed Star of Babylon, as their own favorite Mark of the 666.

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

When One says "I am", what are they really saying?

Again, as applicable to any and all deep esoteric inquiries, it depends on what "level" the words "I AM" are uttered. I would list the seven deviations of self-identification, but with the End of the World [tentatively] scheduled for this afternoon, I'll be busy arranging loose ends, so let's just say the spectrum runs from ME to ALL ...

ME - I Am the center of the Universe and everything revolves around me.

ALL - I Am the center of the Universe and everything in it (simultaneously).

Please feel free to fill in the gray-dations between these two Pules (from Poland), and you will have the basis for your New Order.

 


threefold31
(@threefold31)
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Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 487
 
Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @ignant666

What is meant by the word ""  in the sentence ''1162 is also an adumbration of the Word of the Next Aeon"? How does one number "vaguely foreshadow" or "give a rough outline of" another number/Word?

You have responded to almost all my questions, but not this one.

 

Dwtw

I thought I did respond to that. In this particular case, the value of 1162 derived from the cipher and v. I:46 formula is the same as the value of Katalysis, being the Word of the Aeon, although the latter is not derived from the former. So, in that sense, the Cipher numbers were a foreshadowing, but not a direct revelation of the specific letters of the word.

And to elaborate a bit on whether dissolution means dissolving or a catalytic reaction, the primary sense is taken from Liber CCXX itself, where the word Dissolution appears twice:

"This is the creation of the world, that the pain of division is as nothing, and the joy of dissolution all."

"Aye! feast! rejoice! there is no dread hereafter. There is the dissolution, and eternal ecstasy in the kisses of Nu."

and obliquely a third time: "If the body of the King dissolve, he shall remain in pure ecstasy for ever."

There is a sense here that dissolution refers to physical death, and all of the verses leading up to the cipher verse refer to death. The word Death is mentioned six times in the preceding four verses, until the subject abruptly changes to present an alpha-numeric cipher. So it is not out of the realm of possibility that the cipher is continuing the theme of death in a more enigmatic way.

The fact is that 1162 can be easily derived from the cipher. If there is a better gematria equivalent for that value, I'd be interested in what the word is. My dictionary has only one entry for that number.

 

Litlluw

RLG


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 6990
 

"And no man may buy or sell unless he has the Mark of the Beast" embedded somewhere in his being.

image
image
image
image

Templar, Ku Klucks, Semi-Christian, from the Seal of the A.'.A.'., respectively. Take your choice or design your own. Buy and Sell freely on the Open Market. Avoid the Black Market where the cross or the circle, alone, is all you need.

 


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 6990
 
Posted by: @ahihchiva567

we might have to hide something from someone. 

But LAShTAL is not an "occult" sight.

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

would you think it wise to post a key central finding here, for all the world to see?

Do you mean the one about how "It's all Illusion?" That one, and its similarities, has/have already been announced, here and elsewhere, but nobody believes it (except maybe you, who is willing to laugh at it all).

Since this (nothing = illusion)(0=2) concept has the capacity to destroy any and all lesser concepts, folks are hesitant to believe/accept/surrender, because they still have An Agenda.

But if you have some lesser concept, though possibly important to journeyers on the way home, I don't see why you shouldn't postit-pronto.

However, if it is similar to RTC's guarded secret (that may destroy Civilization or The World or Everyone's Mind), then perhaps restraint is called for.

Perhaps you could drop hints. It would be like creating your own cipher-puzzle-trick, and if people start flipping out, calling the police or ascribing psychological terms to your persona, you could just drop it and (maybe) try again later.

This would be good practice for the initiated interested, because you are a living person who knows and holds the Key - not some poor dead Achad or departed Perdurabo. You are accessible in real-time interaction, so nobody will have to guess for long - or provide false solutions. 

As in all things everywhere, the choice to publish or perish is yours. I will stand by you for the first few volleys. After that, you know, all plans go to Hades and it's every (wo)man for hiser self.

 


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