Various II:76 Ciphe...

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# [Closed] Various II:76 Cipher solutions...

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(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2130

@herupakraath

You just gotta love the Tri-Key! Just found out that all letters and numbers (not only the letters like in your solution) add up to my full name (even the surname with which I was born which is not the same I have now) plus my birthplace!

I guess cognac, cunt and cocaine are in order to celebrate! Oops, I forgot it is a quasi lockdown and I am living alone (kids don't count). Well...

Love=Law

Lutz

(@herupakraath)
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Posts: 538

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

You just gotta love the Tri-Key! Just found out that all letters and numbers (not only the letters like in your solution) add up to my full name (even the surname with which I was born which is not the same I have now) plus my birthplace!

Only once? That won't get you in the door, let alone into the room.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2130

You mean that part in your pamphlet where you alternatingly add and substract random groups of letters and numbers? That will be easy and I will do that next time.

(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 4003

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

not only the letters like in your solution

Wait, so @herupakraath 's "traditional gematria methods" involve:

1) converting the letters in the cypher to numbers by this "Tri-Key" he has invented, but

2) ignoring the numbers that are in the cypher (for reasons he doubtless explains clearly), then

3) adding the letter values, and getting a number; and

?4) this number is equal to the sum of his name and birthplace (and yours, except you don't ignore the numbers), converted by "Tri-Key"?

I am pretty sure that 1-3 are correct based on your post (and the little he's said about his methods), and 4 looks pretty likely.

If i understand the methods here correctly, it seems to me that the "Tri-Key Qabala" shows that you, Lutz, are The Real Tri-Key Chosen One- you work with the whole cypher, he doesn't.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2130

Sometimes he uses the numbers too, once even adding the verse number (which isn't even part of the dictation and was added later with a totally different pencil). I advise to download the PFDs, they are very short and explain themselves. The math is sound, the conclusions debatable.

@herupakraath

The first -+-+-+-+-+- thingie is found and there is my name. Now trying it the other way around or have to regroup again. (All these numbers! Cocaine would definitely help)

(@ignant666)
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Posts: 4003

(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2130

@ignant666

Let me see if this works:

Else you find them by looking for his posts and seeing where he has attached anything.

(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 4003

(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 4003

Had to look up "apodictic", which means "Necessarily or demonstrably true; incontrovertible". What arrogance.

Just monuments to confirmation bias, self-delusion, etc etc etc. Convoluted and contrived methods, loopy conclusions drawn therefrom, all the hallmarks of the classic crank.

Utterly impossible to take seriously.

(@shiva)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6822

Posted by: @ignant666

Utterly impossible to take seriously.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2130

It is.

(@katrice)
Selfie-stick poseur
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 632

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

Why would anyone believe AC to be a JC? It's unfortunate that a Thelemite would be waiting around for anything, let alone some Messiah (save me!) when they are just as much JC as he is. What? Well, yeah, does IT ever truly dissipate, completely?

Unfortunately, some people never leave old belief systems behind, they just change the image and keep the underlying principles, it's not a true conversion.  So, for example, they're still Catholic, AC is JC, AL is the Bible, they still go to Mass, and say their "prayers", ie parrot rituals without understanding them, and magick that works freaks them out and must be the work of qlippothic entities.  And they're waiting around for the rest of the Aeon to unfold so certain things can happen. Like the fellow I got in to a debate with somewhere else who insisted that nobody since AC has achieved the K&C because it's too early in the Aeon for it to be possible.  And nobody could have ever truly received their own holy book because only Crowley could have done that. And there can't be any more Words because the only Magus that can exist is the Magus of the Aeon, and besides that, since there can be nobody above 4=7, nobody could achieve that grade anyway.   So they just follow a religion, like so many others in more mainstream religions do, but they never actually do the work.

Because real conversion takes work, you have to give up old ways and learn and adopt new ones. It's easier to just cosplay as a Thelemite.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

Well stated Katrice.

Thank you.

(@katrice)
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Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 632

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

That was very well stated.

Thank you.

I see your point, some individuals are still prone to playing followe the leader. Right, you must do the work; how would that make you a Thelemite? I agree.

The work is what makes it.  Nobody can do the work for anyone else, they have to pursue their initiation themselves. I've seen some say that one reason why Christianity won out over the Mysteries was that it took less effort to follow. I can't speak to how true that may be but it illustrates the principle I'm talking about.

I've seen Wiccans who insists that magick should not be part of Wicca, they just pray to their gods for guidance every day and go to Sabbat celebrations. Same idea. Learn a new religion?  Nah, just put Jesus in a dress and put some flowers in his hair.

If AC is supposed to be the only Magus of the Aeon, what would actually prove it? or, on the other end, support the true Will of any other to such a grade?

Crowley himself says that more than one person can attain the grade:

"This does not mean that only one man can attain this Grade in any one Aeon, so far as the Order is concerned. A man can make personal progress equivalent to that of a "Word of an Aeon"; but he will identify himself with the current word, and exert his will to establish it, lest he conflict with the work of the Magus who uttered the Word of the Aeon in which He is living."

Strangely, the Setians seem to grasp this better than many Thelemites do, as they have the concept of aeon-enhancing Words built in to their system, wherein there is a Word of the Aeon, but anyone attaining the grade of Magus may utter a Word.

(@shiva)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6822

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

It is.

Well, then, it must be true. I believe it is illegal and against the Law to (c)opyright what might be termed misinformation, or even dysinformation, or [get this] bad math.

But, okay, it's locked into the grid of eternal history

I will now pass judgement ...

Ignant put up a solution, as a simple example of what the puzzle meant and how he is the "one who cometh after," which is self-evident because he solved the cipher/code/puzzle. This was expressed in a manner of jest - to show how easy it is to prove anything.

Dr 666 (who is a man bearing a numbered last name) - please confirm or deny this summary of your original position (point of view) on the chessboard.

Heru's previously published, posted, and copyrighted solution was brought to light. It has a solution leading to his name and birthplace, which may indicate significance in Thelemic thought. This was expressed in a manner of serious intent.

Mr Kraath (who is a man bearing an Egyptian last name) - please confirm or deny this summary of your original position (point of view) on the chessboard.

So -  Ignant used "standard gematria." I am able to certify that this is true, because I followed his every move and noticed his every conclusion. I saw no error in math or judgment, and there were no skips in logic or fiddlings with thesticks.

It is my professional opinion that he did this to demonstrate that anybody (everybody) can be chosen, by themselves, to follow and thus lead (expound), or whatever's next.

So - Heru claims use of "standard gematria." I am able to certify that this does not appear to be the case (based on Ignant's Summary of the Method of Heru, which he has read and I read a long time ago when it first came out. There appears to be an introduction of mathematical manipulations that are not "standard gematria."

It is my professional opinion that the introductions of math concepts that are not "standard gematria" need to be explained in depth - expounded to the point where they become obviously clear, even to a beginner of a year or so (but certainly not including the common folk who have trouble math or foreign languages.

Summary - Let's take a break now, and come back ... later.

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

Some of you gentlemen seem ...to be far more crazy than I.

Why, thank you. Coming from a real hero, this cheers us all up ever more better than before. Please submit your "solution" in order the be considered for a Certificate (no frame).

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

Who here knows the dogma ... of Liber AL vel Legis sub figura 220 as delivered 93=418 to 666?

WTF do you want? With so many embellishments and prequalifications, it is difficult to know what you want and how much you will pay (+tax).

Are you asking about the numbers names in the title, or the dogma embedded in the text? In either case, it would be an entirely new topic. We might slip in a short reply, but any lengthy discussion, arguments, courtroom battles, or pistols at dawn should be moved to another thread.

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

-... they'd eat that child. Who's the Beast now?

Um, the rest of your post seems appears to be is somewhat off-topic and incoherent. Some stuck-up folk might call it ranting. Please calm down and pay attention to the multiplicity of the solution. Yes, there is only One Solution, but it may be found in different ways. The final solution for anyone can be summed up thus: You will take personal responsibility for everything you perceive.

(@katrice)
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Posted by: @shiva

It is my professional opinion that the introductions of math concepts that are not "standard gematria" need to be explained in depth - expounded to the point where they become obviously clear, even to a beginner of a year or so (but certainly not including the common folk who have trouble math or foreign languages.

UPG is a fine thing as long as it is recognized as U and P. It's when someone insists that it has universal application that things get more complicated, and therein lies a large part of the arguments on this thread.

(@shiva)
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Posts: 6822

Posted by: @katrice

It's when someone insists that it has universal application that things get more complicated

Yup!  It's easy enough to prove a point is universal - just apply it to a whole big bunch of clinical patients or promising magi. All licensing exams in the USA (to my knowledge) require a passing exam rate of 70% (medicine, nursing, etc). If a magickal formula or mystical trance inducer works 70%, I will be impressed.

(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 637

Posted by: @aleisterion

I never wrote that I did "speak to him" at all.

No u didn't u sly Devil. But i'm smart enough to know that you did. You didn't go to all that trouble to do a seance and then ask for someone else did you? You went straight to the source. What did AC tell you about his plans for reincarnation? Please do tell. And don't be coy. Enquiring minds want to know!

Posted by: @aleisterion

LOL

Whew! Glad to see u have a sense of humor. There was lightning outside my window last night and I feared I may have angered the Second Beast and that you had perhaps invoked the Apocalypse.

Posted by: @aleisterion

you have a bad habit of putting words in others' mouths, and of making unfounded assumptions.

This is a common interrogation technique. When a suspect (you) is being questioned and is being less than forthcoming or being selective in the information he gives, you make assumptions and let the suspect confirm or deny these assumptions.

If you don't remove the upside down pentagram burnt into your lawn and clean up the dead chickens you may have some 'splain'g to do soon Ricky.

Posted by: @aleisterion

And how does any of this relate to the topic of the thread?

The fact that some people submitting solutions to this riddle think that they are "chosen ones" "second beasts" or "AC reincarnates" is very relative.

Posted by: @aleisterion

Your screencaps are another unwarranted diversion from the topic, to attack me with a silly exchange that happened years ago about a Halloween picture LMAO! They prove nothing, you nitwit.

I don't believe you. Why are you ashamed of thinking (at one time) that you might be AC reincarnated? This is Lashtal. Join the club! You've clearly stated you do not believe this currently. We understand.

Posted by: @aleisterion

but none of it has anything to do with this thread

It has everything to do with this thread. Understanding where the puzzle solvers are coming from, what state of mind they are in, what fantasies they are currently living out, and what titles they have given themselves (Beast, Chosen One etc) is apropos.

Posted by: @herupakraath

Okay, how about many numbers that are arrived at objectively then, would that constitute proof of something--my question is hypothetical.

Asking for a friend, I presume?

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

You just gotta love the Tri-Key! Just found out that all letters and numbers (not only the letters like in your solution) add up to my full name (even the surname with which I was born which is not the same I have now) plus my birthplace!

Aiwass seriously needs to stop doxxing peoples birth names and addresses. This may have been cool in 1904. Not cool any more.

Posted by: @ignant666

Wait, so @herupakraath 's "traditional gematria methods" involve:

1) converting the letters in the cypher to numbers by this "Tri-Key" he has invented, but

2) ignoring the numbers that are in the cypher (for reasons he doubtless explains clearly), then

3) adding the letter values, and getting a number; and

?4) this number is equal to the sum of his name and birthplace (and yours, except you don't ignore the numbers), converted by "Tri-Key"?

I am pretty sure that 1-3 are correct based on your post (and the little he's said about his methods), and 4 looks pretty likely.

If i understand the methods here correctly, it seems to me that the "Tri-Key Qabala" shows that you, Lutz, are The Real Tri-Key Chosen One- you work with the whole cypher, he doesn't.

To question the sanity of anyone submitting a solution (including myself) is justifiable considering the history of kooks and crazies on Lashtal and (and AC does seem to attract them.)

But at some point Ignant I must question the judgement of those (You, Shiva, etc) that allow this thread to continue for 30 pages at 50 posts per page into infinitude, mulling over each submission and taking this process so seriously. Do you think another 30 pages of posts will resolve anything?

Posted by: @ignant666

Had to look up "apodictic", which means "Necessarily or demonstrably true; incontrovertible". What arrogance.

Do we know anything about this Lad? He could be institutionalized with good wifi access. I think we need to find out more about the people submitting solutions before we spend years (yes years!) of our time examining their work.

Posted by: @ignant666

PDF's? Pfft! If he submitted them engraved in stone I might be impressed.

Posted by: @ignant666

Had to look up "apodictic", which means "Necessarily or demonstrably true; incontrovertible". What arrogance.

Haha! I don't think he's trolling. SO he must be...cwazy?!

Posted by: @katrice

Unfortunately, some people never leave old belief systems behind, they just change the image and keep the underlying principles, it's not a true conversion.  So, for example, they're still Catholic

I've been through a few different religious and philosophical groups in my life. Currently I am a member of none. But in Feb of 1965 at two weeks of age I was baptized Catholic at a church on Fairfax Ave in Hollywood. I still have the official certificate issued to me at the time.

Now this might seem unfortunate for someone interested in Crowley's work, but I think not. I haven't been doxxed by Aiwass (yet) but my birth name (MST) anagrams perfectly to the following:

Satanic Helm Eye Rein
Is An Elite Arch Enemy
Thee Early Sin Cinema
In Thelema Ye Can Rise
Hey Aleister Came Inn

For me this is good theater. Like the beginning of a spooky movie where the kid is being baptized and the Priest is speaking in Latin. You just know this is gonna be good!

I will always be a baptized Catholic first. And a Thelemite second. It's has nothing to do with my beliefs. It's just a fact. Our pasts are not easily discarded and AC is a prime example.

Thelema to me is like punk rock. If you're doing it right you may be doing it all wrong. Some of the best punk bands were arguably some of the worst. Thelema is IMHO a religion for assholes. Anyone can do it. Invent your own system. Call it whatever you want. It's about WILL.

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6822

Posted by: @aleisterion
Posted by: @aleisterion

you have a bad habit of making unfounded assumptions.

This is common; it is one primary aspect of the "new normal." Surely you must be getting used to it by now.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

The fact that some people submitting solutions to this riddle think that they are "chosen ones" "second beasts" or "AC reincarnates" is very relative.

This is true. The inquisition of the motives and mental stability, plus their "make up" quotient, is directly linked to this thread - if they mention it (AL, L, II:76, the "puzzle," the terms and titles you listed, and so forth ... and so to ON.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

It has everything to do with this thread. Understanding where the puzzle solvers are coming from, what state of mind they are in, what fantasies they are currently living out, and what titles they have given themselves (Beast, Chosen One etc) is apropos.

Like I said. You make a good inquisitor - but be sure to add blood tests and proctological exams.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

This may have been cool in 1904. Not cool any more.

It is still cool in that the list of Inquisitees is growing. More Beasts, Followers, Chosen Ones, Birthplaces to Burn and Salt, and more commission for you, as you are being paid per persona.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

Do you think another 30 pages of posts will resolve anything?

Maybe. Maybe not. Doesn't matter. The thread may continue until Eternity minus 93 minutes - as long as the Moderator finds no real reason to crash it.

"Everyone must be given the opportunity to exercise their 15 minutes of Fame. This is At Least Connected to the Topic Free Speech.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

I still have the official certificate issued to me at the time.

And how does this official cert authorize you to "follow after" or otherwise be "chosen?"

Posted by: @elitemachinery

I will always be a baptized Catholic first.

Aha! Adolf said exactly the same thing. Just who are you following after? I'm going to check The Guidelines to see if this is permitted.

(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 637

Posted by: @elitemachinery

Do you think another 30 pages of posts will resolve anything?

Maybe. Maybe not. Doesn't matter.

I think it does matter. Allowing drive by puzzle solvers to litter the boards and take hours of every day is a waste of time and I promise will lead nowhere. But please carry on. For all we know an attendant at a mental institution has handed out laptops and wifi passwords to all those in the ward and told them all they are "chosen ones."

Posted by: @elitemachinery

I still have the official certificate issued to me at the time.

And how does this official cert authorize you to "follow after" or otherwise be "chosen?"

Chosen is not a word I would ever use unless I was imitating Crowley's arrogance. It implies that one thinks they are better than others and comes with loads of baggage.

Aiwass/Crowley use the word chosen 9 times in BoTL which does make me question the authenticity of the transmission. Why would Aiwass blow so much smoke up Crowley's ass? Have you ever considered the document could be self serving and that finding a "solution" to a seemingly random sequence of letters and numbers could be a complete waste ot time?

Like any good Catholic boy, being a certified baptized Catholic with a certificate allows me an indulgence every few years, and allows for me to explore the dark side as long as I confess, repent, and say a few hail Mary's afterward. You see when the Jesus freaks come here looking for the Satanists (I am neither) I will simply explain that I am a filmmaker and actor researching a project and show my credentials (Catholic baptism certificate) as proof that I am here on official business only.

Everyone knows that Catholic girls make the best girlfriends. They know how to be naughty yet you can take them home to meet your mum.

The people attempting to solve this puzzle are reading into the situation and between the lines far too much. Aiwass said nothing about this "one who comes after" being "chosen" or "beast" or "magickal child" or "reincarnated AC" its simply a puzzle and that Aiwass says someone will "expound" upon.

But Crowley and all his clones have assumed that this puzzle "means something" important and worked themselves into a frenzy trying to be first to solve it. They appear to believe that whoever solves this puzzle must be some sort of Holy Chosen Heir and Magickal Fuktard. Ugh.

Posted by: @shiva

Aha! Adolf said exactly the same thing. Just who are you following after? I'm going to check The Guidelines to see if this is permitted.

Aha! I've been found out! Perhaps I am a closet Nazi? I did write a track called "Hail, Micro!" for my film EVICTED:

https://youtu.be/06Wf6nRHNCU?t=4478

Stand up and show you ain't no bleeder.
Get in line, reap what I sow.
Do what I say, know what I know.

(group) Hail, Micro!"

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6822

Posted by: @elitemachinery

I think it does matter.

You are looking at this way too seriously. This whole thing is a great big universal joke (see Liber 333) and to take things, like the length of a thread, seriously is to miss the joke. Then the misser becomes the butt of the joke.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

Allowing drive by puzzle solvers to litter the boards and take hours of every day is a waste of time and I promise will lead nowhere.

"Allowing" is allowed by The Holy Guidelines. Drive-by posters are allowed ("All challenges accepted") and we enjoy their debut, because it relieves the boredom of dead threads. Right now, 2 or 3 threads are hot - this is one of them. Good Grief and the Whiners - I will now describe the past year or so:

Sometimes, no posts are made for 2 or 3 days. Sometimes there is only as single dialog running for many days. It is the monsoons doldrums. For months on end. Now, a few threads heat up. The forum halls become as drunkenpubs. People who have not posted for months come out of the woodwork, and the old LAShTAL, that we know so well, comes to life. There are fistfights in the corners and spotlighted on the stage.

We have to remember where we are: In a public speaking place where any dork, dildo, or dame with an email address can gain admission (thankfully the robots and marketers are currently locked out, except by personal attention). On-topic free speech is still allowed on all threads.

There is the ultimate solution, one that invariably is recommended for unhappy folk - just don't click on any thread that you know is contaminated with filth. Nobody makes anybody come here, and when the place is hot, there's always a tinge of insanity (or poor logic) - because this is a reflection of The Outer Order.

Folks who want more lucidity and tranquility sometimes form an Inner Order, but that meets offsite and in another dimension.

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

I knew that would get your Goat, you old dog

I do not have a goat, although I usually get along with Capricorns. I do have a dog, but he is not me. I don;t even know what your mind-topic is, because you did not "quote" whatever the topic is you are referencing.

No matter. If I read on, it might become apparent.

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

distinguish between shit and more shit.

Here's a hidden secret: At Solar Ranch, R.I.P. (that is, at a post-mortem reflection down in Mexico of the original but phoenixed Solar Ranch, we did have a male goat, with huge curvy horns, white in color, Pan by name. We also had pigs, chickens, guinea fowl, turkeys, rabbits, a cow, and a diamondback rattlesnake that lived up in the hill where we usually didn't go (where the treasure was buried and one pot plant grew in a gully). Get the picture?

All these animals, plus ourselves (usually six minimum, but cyclically up to ten or twelve), all ate regularly, and things came out the other end. Get the wider picture? There is no sewer system or waste collection on a farm in rural Mexico. There is waste management.

Now these same people-animals (in Mex or elsewhere) also have this same system running on another plane. They take in ideas and something comes out the other end (which we may loosely define as their belief system. And when they express their beliefs, it must be handled as waste management.

As Leary said, "It is all bullshit." How crude of him. But, yes, it is all just a mental belief system. But this is only recognized for what it it (BS) when one is in the proper state (trance, emptiness, wu-wei, with the Tao, that sort of thing). Otherwise ...

Otherwise, one is running around, enmeshed in what they think is true, but they are looking for some one thing that is not BS. We never had a bull cow, she was destined for milking. Well, such things are possible to manifest. Magical talismans, potions, wands, stones ... or certain mantras pronounced properly, certain objects of dharana at certain times ... these things can be manifested and used as catalysts to enter the quiet place. But all such things are products of a hot zone, and they have a limited timespan.

Anytime something works well, repeadly, should remove the alchemist's hood and put on the business hat, and get right down to the patent office. Otherwise, it tends to not hold together ... being composed as it was, of mental waste matter.

Now, you were saying ...

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

I want the business; kick my ass; shun me; make fun of me; but remember (I doubt you could ever forget) love all, there is no certain test.

This is not a sad-o-mas-o-christic site. You will now enter the certain test (that is not). Are you prepared to recite the 42 negative affirmations? (the "I have nots"). Okay, move on ...

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

Yes, I will be held responsible for all I perceive (don't I know that) and receive as well; interpret; contrive; make up; fancy - and that is why I am such an ass hole, eccentric, fool. Perfect.

Fine. You have taken the dreaded Oath of a Master of the Temple. A good start. But then you run on with all this mental waste by-products. (qualifications). I wonder where all this is leading? ...

Posted by: @ahihchiva567

But I am off topic, and still playing the ass.

Well, whenever you find the question (or the solution or the ultimate reason), feel free to put it in writing on some remotely-connected thread.

Now, we were mixing it up over who gets to say what, who gets "censored" (a touchy topic these days), who does or doesn't pay dues (in advance - serious late fees apply), and how to upgrade the orum hall security so that yonder beggars can't get in.

No, that's impossible. I'll just go to The Inner Order.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2130

Here is a new game:

Let's find all people whose name can be in some way counted to 118 with the Tri-Key method and whose birthplace can be counted to 101. All the better if you find a method with which the name can be counted to 118  AND to 76 (the key is middle names etc.). Then you are in exactly the same place as herupakrath! I have managed to do so with my name, but one solution is still missing (I will find it of course, it is just a little math and regrouping of letters and numbers, plus the "name and birthplace" solution of mine uses all numbers and letters and not only letters).

P.S. You can be the "expounder" by just changing one or two of the planetary or Tarot assignments, because they don't mean anything to the solution.

P.S.2. It doesn't have to be your name and birthplace, ANY will do.

(@katrice)
Selfie-stick poseur
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 632

Posted by: @elitemachinery

Everyone knows that Catholic girls make the best girlfriends. They know how to be naughty yet you can take them home to meet your mum.

Can confirm the first part. The second part doesn't work so well for me. 😉

Posted by: @elitemachinery

Thelema to me is like punk rock. If you're doing it right you may be doing it all wrong.

In all fairness, I've gotten told I'm doing Thelema wrong a lot of times.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

Aiwass said nothing about this "one who comes after" being "chosen" or "beast" or "magickal child" or "reincarnated AC" its simply a puzzle and that Aiwass says someone will "expound" upon

I'd always thought the significance was more about the meaning than the solver.

Posted by: @shiva

As Leary said, "It is all bullshit." How crude of him. But, yes, it is all just a mental belief system

The trick is finding how that bullshit works for you.

Posted by: @shiva

42 negative affirmations

Dua Maat!

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

P.S. You can be the "expounder" by just changing one or two of the planetary or Tarot assignments

And then when it comes out that the tarot assignments may not predate de Gebelin and de Mellet, it gets even more complex.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2130

Posted by: @katrice
Posted by: @elitemachinery

Everyone knows that Catholic girls make the best girlfriends. They know how to be naughty yet you can take them home to meet your mum.

Can confirm the first part. The second part doesn't work so well for me. 😉

Specially with the other thread going on, I can't miss this off-topic goodie, sorry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMdhWRO4-dQ

katrice liked
Anonymous
Joined: 52 years ago
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You know what the problem with Zappa is?  (Not that he actually knew the Blessed Virgin Mary)  It all sounds the same.  Zappa Zappa Zappa.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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@jg Unfriended!

Anonymous
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ok

(@elitemachinery)
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Posts: 637

Posted by: @katrice

In all fairness, I've gotten told I'm doing Thelema wrong a lot of times.

Then you must be doing something right!

Posted by: @shiva

You are looking at this way too seriously.

Ok, i thought it was the other way around.

Posted by: @shiva

This whole thing is a great big universal joke (see Liber 333) and to take things, like the length of a thread, seriously is to miss the joke. Then the misser becomes the butt of the joke.

That's usually where I end up anyways.

Posted by: @shiva

"Allowing" is allowed by The Holy Guidelines. Drive-by posters are allowed ("All challenges accepted") and we enjoy their debut, because it relieves the boredom of dead threads. Right now, 2 or 3 threads are hot - this is one of them.

Ok well maybe i've stirred the pot a little. Yes this thread is hot and Lashtal sometimes seems to die on the vine so it's good people are talking. I have no problem with it continuing. But the "contest and award" aspect of the proceedings seem a bit silly. How do you know you haven't already dismissed the actual solution as presented here or someplace else? Should you not review all submissions at regular intervals to make sure you didn't miss anything. Perhaps it's just not time for the solution to be revealed?

What is apparent to me, is that this puzzle is clearly intended to be some sort of red herring that gets the fan boys worked up in a frenzy competing for a prize. I'm not saying there isn't a solution, just that the anxious quest for validation among the Crowley clones is very revealing. And I think Aiwass intended it that way.

Posted by: @katrice

I'd always thought the significance was more about the meaning than the solver.

It could be both or either. But clearly the clones think it's all about "me, me, me!"

(@herupakraath)
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Posts: 538

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

Let's find all people whose name can be in some way counted to 118 with the Tri-Key method and whose birthplace can be counted to 101.

Good luck. The chances of my name and location equaling the values as mirrored in the puzzle are 1/23 million, I would assume the numbers are same for anyone else. When a gematria system has to make a string of letters equal a specific value, the level of difficulty increases dramatically, and that's what you're looking at in trying to find someone whose name equals the values seen in the puzzle letters, which should tell you something.

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

P.S. You can be the "expounder" by just changing one or two of the planetary or Tarot assignments, because they don't mean anything to the solution.

I can prove all of the ideological assignments in puzzle are meaningful to a solution. You're grasping at straws, and speculating on aspects of this work that have been studied and analyzed for years, and as you will soon learn, you're out of your depth.

(@shiva)
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Posts: 6822

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

I have managed to do so with my name, but one solution is still missing

Solve the first half of the equation (your name) and leave it at that (the angels will fill in the second half).

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

You can be the "expounder" by just changing one or two of the planetary or Tarot assignments

Oh!  I'm in an inpounder phase of my second 72-year cycle, so I'll have to pass. Besides, imponders are not permitted to fiddle.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

But the "contest and award" aspect of the proceedings seem a bit silly.

Yes, it is. But with different folks submitting their own solutions, some even printing and embossing their own certificates, I personally found it irresistible to add funny fuel to the fire. I even rooted RTC on (at certain points) and always pay homage to his slick marketing style.

I just went to my solution, from back in '84. My certificate is older than anybody's (except Achad's - but "his" was AC's application, so fudge. I went there to find something humorous, just a line or two. Isettled on a copy & past of the tail end of The Penultimate Line, combined with the Last Line itself.

Yes, I will reveal the final secret, just to make you (and those other fakirs) laugh. Wallah ...

Who is R.P. Stoval? He is:

The Central Sun, who through the Lightning Flash of Revelation, performs Synthesis of the Ten Thousand things. The Stargate opens, the Lovers (Eternity & Infinity) unite, and by virtue of Joy and Humor, the Adjustment becomes total, the EQUINOX of EQUINOXES reigns supreme.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

What is apparent to me, is that this puzzle is clearly intended to be some sort of red herring that gets the fan boys worked up in a frenzy competing for a prize.

Yes, others have suggested it is some sort of trap, used to ensnare consciousness so that it avoids liberation (from the mind).

Of course it stirs up competition. It's hanging out there like Excalibur in the Stone. All manner of folks tried to yank that blade. Then Art came along and lifted it right out.

Crowley fans the flames. He writes, "One of the few commands (wic?) given to me was, Trust not a stanger - fail not of an heir nd what did he do in the end? He wrote out a note at the bottom of one of his last letters ... "My sword to him that can get it."

Of course there will be competition. This (LAShTAL) is a public (almost) forum overshadowed by an Outer Order. But the discipline (usually) demanded in an Outer Order cannot be demanded (applied) to a gathering of public figures.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

I'm not saying there isn't a solution, just that the anxious quest for validation among the Crowley clones is very revealing.

And along the same lines, but using my Outer Order metaphor - did you know that many formal Outer Orders out there are much more fucked up than anything seen around here?

Posted by: @elitemachinery

And I think Aiwass intended it that way.

Aiwass was the name of Perdurabo's HGA. He was AC's monad. The monad is known to us as Kether, and we may slip Hadit into the center of that sphere. You and I each have a monad, up there at #1, Ours are not called Aiwass.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

It could be both or either. But clearly the clones think it's all about "me, me, me!"

There is The Universal Joke, and there is The Universal problem. You have just cited the latter.

Posted by: @herupakraath

Good luck. The chances of my name and location equaling the values as mirrored in the puzzle are 1/23 million, I would assume the numbers are same for anyone else.

This simply is not true. One gets to change a few minor attributions. This cuts the odds to 100% success ... because a fiddler can make anything come true.

Posted by: @herupakraath

... you're out of your depth.

Yeah, Iff, do some depth-sounding. Then some spatial relationship judgment finding. See where you are (compared to each of us other balloons). How deep in it are you?

(This has been a deep question based on depth anal-ysis)

(@katrice)
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Posts: 632

Posted by: @shiva

Yes, others have suggested it is some sort of trap, used to ensnare consciousness so that it avoids liberation (from the mind).

So many never seem to truly make it past Practicus, despite claims to the contrary.

Posted by: @shiva

did you know that many formal Outer Orders out there are much more fucked up than anything seen around here?

I've only seen this from the outside, but I believe it.  If that's just been what I've seen, I can only imagine what it's like on the inside.

Posted by: @shiva

This simply is not true. One gets to change a few minor attributions. This cuts the odds to 100% success ... because a fiddler can make anything come true.

Which seems to have become an underlying theme for this thread.

(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
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Posts: 2130

Here we go, having fun with the Tri-Key

Sum of the letters: 219

Sum of the numbers: 143

These are the letters appearing in the puzzle signifying 4 of arguably the biggest bands in music history (Beatles and Stones suck, sorry), the only numbers that have no assigned letter (4 and 8) are founding members that went before the bands' biggest success:

ABG: Sting, Andy, Stewart +Henry (founding member)

KLMO: Agnetha, Björn, Benny, Annafrid

PRS: Lemmy, Animal, Eddie

TVXY: Freddie, Brian, John, Roger +Mike (founding member)

4: Henry M: Benny

3: Annafrid O: Annafrid

8: Mike 3: Annafrid

A: Sting Y: Roger

B: Andy X: John

K: Earth 24: John

4: Henry O: Annafrid

a: Sting V: Brian

L: Björn A: Sting

G: Stewart L: Björn

4+3+8+ABK+4+aLGMO+3+YX+24+OVAL = 219

Deceased members + 89 as an offset:

6: Eddie

2: Freddie

R: Animal

89

R: Animal

P: Lemmy

S: Eddie:

T: Freddie

6+2+R+89+RPST = 143

Letter count in II:76 is 222, a value that conceals the alternate identity of Crowley and myself:

The Beast Six-hundred Sixty-six = 222 = Lutz Lemke, the Cypher Solver

Part of the puzzle design is to have the letters in each half of the puzzle equal a specified value; the purpose in doing so is to further identify the xth person who would solve the puzzle, not only by concealing my full name , but also the location where I was born, therefore using the surname I was born under:

ABKaLGMORY = 118 = Lutz Anton Lederer

XRPSTOVAL = 101 = Rehau, Bavaria

Subtracting the sum of the numbers in the puzzle, 143, from the value of its letters, 219, results in 76, the verse number, and the enumeration of Lutz Anton.

Calculating a value for each group of numbers and letters within the puzzle, and alternately adding or subtracting the values, provides the final evidence that identifies the individual Tahuti knew would solve the puzzle:

4 6 3 8 = 21

ABK = 43

24 = 6

aLGMOR = 60

3 = 3

Y = 15

X = 24

24 = 24

89 = 89

RPSTOVAL = 77

Lutz Anton Lederer = 118

21 + 43 -6 + 60 -3 + 15 -24 + 24 -89 + 77 = 118

Lutz Anton = 76

77 -89 + 24 -24 + 15 -3 + 60 -6 + 43 -21 = 76

But even better, when counting my full name (Germans usually have three forenames) and the complete description of birthplace (not only the state, but the country also), we get the letters AND numbers, the complete cypher:

Lutz Anton Juergen Lederer = 190

Rehau, Bavaria, Germany = 172

190 + 172= 362

Letters of the puzzle: 219

Numbers of the puzzle: 143

219 + 143 = 362

And, especially for @kidneyhawk :

The only facet of the puzzle lacking a linguistic meaning is the sum of the numbers within it, which also demonstrates the ability of Tahuti to foresee the future:

4 + 6 + 3 + 8 + 2 + 4 + 3 + 24 + 89 = 143

Dies in December 1947 = 25 + 15 + 82 + 21 = 143

As I said, huge fun.

Love=Law

Lutz

P.S. My birth certificate which was "renewed" when I was adopted aged 9 and moved to my mother and her new husband to Erlangen, Bavaria, before I was living with my real father, who sadly committed suicide.

ignant666 liked
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Posted by: @elitemachinery

Then you must be doing something right!

lol possibly at least in that I don't adhere to it blindly, and don't make it just another religion.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

It could be both or either. But clearly the clones think it's all about "me, me, me!"

I'd like to think that any solution would give us something new.  You are right in that there is nothing to indicate that any solver is a successor, new prophet, or whatever. It literally only says "There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it"  which just indicates that someone other than Crowley will solve it.

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6822

Posted by: @katrice

[a fiddler] ... Which seems to have become an underlying theme for this thread.

It should be anticipated (already) that Fiddling (cheating) is rampant, starting with the imp Crowley - and maybe even people before him, from the Olden Aeon, where everybody cheated all the time.

Here is the problem, in several parts: First, the User's Manual says to get the English alphabeta and get in in its proper order, along with the "value" (number) of each letter. Thus Hebrew is pushed aside for the Anglo probe. This is where it gets subjective, right at the beginning - Liber Trigrammaton  was found to be "not satisfactory" (AC's description).

If  everybody (minus a few kraks who are obviously kranked) would agree on this first instruction, first step, then The Puzzle Game  can proceed on a level playing field. Any inventions above or beyond the "foundation" are subject to fiddlation and may be valid for the individual, but others will start casting stones.

Let's start up front ...

Obtain the order and value of the English alphabet;

Anyone may feel free to submit a ground level set of correspondences. Trigrammaton may be referenced for vindication (but it has not yet gained widespread acceptance).

Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

The Beast Six-hundred Sixty-six = 222 = Lutz Lemke, the Cypher Solver

Is anybody making a List of the names of the various solvers, pretenders, and/or candidates for the One certificate (that is not self-printed)?

Posted by: @katrice

"There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it"  which just indicates that someone other than Crowley will solve it.

Yeah. Maybe just a drive-by clerk who's good at math, but avoids any philosophical musing, and is quick to solve and run (awaY).

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posts: 2130

Posted by: @shiva

Is anybody making a List of the names of the various solvers, pretenders, and/or candidates for the One certificate (that is not self-printed)?

I guess yes:

@threefold31 said somewhere in this thread: "A lot of this is covered in 'Secret of the Cipher Naughts', my compilation of numerous solutions given over the decades."

You can find it online, though I don't know if this is intended by threefold31.

It's from 2014 (the online one), maybe there is an update?

Love=Law

Lutz

(@threefold31)
Member
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Posts: 482

Dwtw

Yes, it's online, that's fine by me. There's a link on page 1 of this thread.

It sounds like it will need an update someday, at least to accommodate the next couple of solutions by HPK, as well as Bethsheba, and Tierney, if he has written one.

I'm kind of feeling left out of the whole 'my-name-is-in-the-Cipher' game.

My last name, transliterated into Hebrew letters: Gimel-yod-lamed-lamed-yod-samek = 143.

Since that equals the numbers in the Cipher, I'm halfway there... 😉

Litlluw

RLG

(@threefold31)
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Posts: 482

Posted by: @herupakraath

No matter how one chooses to generate a value using the puzzle, or anything else, a number is a number. To claim there is something extraordinary about the same value appearing twice in the Book of the Law in two different places, is comparable to thinking that two sentences sharing the same value proves something, or even two words for that matter. Your solution, ironically, is actually too simple.

Dwtw

So let me see if I understand you; when two quantities share a value, such as some parts of the Cipher and one's name and birthplace, THAT qualifies as meaningful, but otherwise a number is just a number, and two words or sentences being equivalent is NOT meaningful?

When I show that the numbers in the Cipher are equivalent to the title of the Book they appear in (based on Crowley's letter assignments), you dismiss this as not meaningful. But when you show parts of the Cipher to equate to your name (based on your own letter assignments), this is supposed to be meaningful? Is that your position?

Litlluw

RLG

(@ignant666)
Elderly American druggie
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 4003

Posted by: @threefold31

But when you show parts of the Cipher to equate to your name (based on your own letter assignments), this is supposed to be meaningful? Is that your position?

Yes, and presumably his new position is that Lutz is the actual One and solver, since he musters up every bit of "proof" @herupakraath does, and then some. Another position he could, but will not, take, is that his "proofs" are a bunch of contrived nonsense.

I especially like the correlations with the members of ABBA, Motorhead and Queen (and, um, the Police?!?!).

(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
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Posts: 2130

Posted by: @ignant666

I especially like the correlations with the members of ABBA, Motorhead and Queen (and, um, the Police?!?!).

I had to quickly come up with a trio where all members are still alive...

(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1930

ok

“ Open yuh mouth
Put up mi pum-pum
Make yuh tongue go
Lick, lick,
Open yuh mouth
Make that tongue go
Murda,
get back in it “
https://youtu.be/R6jzbvIua08

(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2130

I am now working on an updated version that uses the letter count not of Liber L but of the lyrics of the biggest selling hits of the involved bands "Every Breath You Take", "Dancing Queen", "Ace of Spades" and "Another One Bites The Dust" which is minimally different from the letter count in Liber L, because in the end that is the letter count English texts are supposed to generate. After that, I will try my luck on reversing the letter count in Liber L, so that Z=1 and E=26. I am confident I will find very nifty conclusions. In short, reverse engineering is easy, once you have an idea (and, as I said, I really like the letter count assignation method). I mean, this was an afternoon's work, while doing real work at the same time - meaning, I used "render breaks".

By the way, if we only accept words that are allowed by Scrabble rules, the count of words in II:76 is not 52 but only 50, since the two injections "o" are not words allowed at Scrabble. 50 of course being Lutz.

Also, the "group" of numbers to get through the "+ - + - + -" method part, is totally arbitrary, because it is not a "group of numbers" with meaning but the arranging of numbers and letters to get a result - you really have to get a grip of this evil "89" in there, it's so big for any calculation. But a nice result admittedly. I had some good results with building other "groups".

Love=Law

Lutz

(@the_real_simon_iff)
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Posted by: @tiger

ok

Superb video!

(@elitemachinery)
Member
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Posts: 637

Posted by: @shiva

I just went to my solution, from back in '84. My certificate is older than anybody's (except Achad's - but "his" was AC's application, so fudge. I went there to find something humorous, just a line or two. Isettled on a copy & past of the tail end of The Penultimate Line, combined with the Last Line itself.

Yes, I will reveal the final secret, just to make you (and those other fakirs) laugh. Wallah ...

Who is R.P. Stoval? He is:

The Central Sun, who through the Lightning Flash of Revelation, performs Synthesis of the Ten Thousand things. The Stargate opens, the Lovers (Eternity & Infinity) unite, and by virtue of Joy and Humor, the Adjustment becomes total, the EQUINOX of EQUINOXES reigns supreme.

@Shiva has (or had) a solution too? Well that proves it. The temptation to reach for Excalibur or least tug at it a bit is irresistible. None of us should feel bad for trying. Even Ignant offered a solution (ok well it was in jest.)

Posted by: @shiva

Here is the problem, in several parts: First, the User's Manual says to get the English alphabeta and get in in its proper order, along with the "value" (number) of each letter. Thus Hebrew is pushed aside for the Anglo probe. This is where it gets subjective, right at the beginning - Liber Trigrammaton  was found to be "not satisfactory" (AC's description).

If  everybody (minus a few kraks who are obviously kranked) would agree on this first instruction, first step, then The Puzzle Game  can proceed on a level playing field. Any inventions above or beyond the "foundation" are subject to fiddlation and may be valid for the individual, but others will start casting stones.

Let's start up front ...

Obtain the order and value of the English alphabet;

The problem here is that this wasn't done before the puzzle solving began. Aiwass left the solver(s) themselves to decide what the rules are, therefore there are none, hence the quagmire.

Posted by: @shiva

Is anybody making a List of the names of the various solvers, pretenders, and/or candidates for the One certificate (that is not self-printed)?

I was thinking it might be useful to comb through Lashtal for threads on this subject and list the various solutions/solvers. There seem to be at least a couple different types solvers:

1. Stab Takers - People who've read and are knowledgeable about Crowley who do not really have any fanatical ambitions to be the chosen magickal heir to The Beast. They simply find the puzzle intriguing and would like to take a stab at it. For example @wellreadwellbred (there are others)

2. Chosen Ones - Those certain that this puzzle must be solved by them to prove that they are the one true chosen magickal child of The Beast to lead the world into a new era of Crowleyanity. They have attached great meaning to the process and feel it is their duty to share their unique knowledge with LASHTAL. Generally, no one else "gets it" or subscribes to the solution, and they die on the cross, misunderstood and ignored. For example: @herupakraath (there may be others)

3. Reincarnated Ones - The Reincarnated AC. This person is the reincarnation of Aleister Crowley (the ego.) Like an old i386 PC revved up and ready to go this person is bound for failure. But his wife and mother both thinks he looks like AC. He dresses like AC on Halloween and is available for hire at any wedding, funeral or children's party. His solution is vague, and solves nothing, and by his own admission is "for himself." Usually encouraged by vast amounts of drug use, vague seances, screwy magick, and poor eyesight, this person quickly disappears when any amount of scrutiny or light is sent his way, pretending that he was only kidding around and not serious. For example: @aleisterion (there may be others)

4. The Troll - This person has been reading solutions submitted by delusional chosen ones and reincarnated magickal heirs for years. He has witnessed fuzzy math and fudging being taken to epic new heights and is simply exhausted by the proceedings. Finally, he submits his own solution in a bit of satirical jest and announces himself "the winner." For example: @RTC @Ignant666 (there may be others)

5. The Magi - This person is one that has gone through all the grades and achieved and discarded all titles and grades. He at one time did offer a solution (which he has mostly kept private) but still encourages others and appears to think the puzzle will be solved by someone at some point. He takes the proceedings seriously, but only in the context of the cosmic joke. For example: @Shiva (there may be others)

6. The Actor -This person has low self esteem and identity issues. An actor who never got "the role." A former stand-up comic (he was told to sit down.) He has resorted to taking on self-deprecating everyman roles such as Joe Blow and Micro Tyranny in unpopular films and pornography. The role of Reincarnated AC provides an opportunity to play the ultimate role, finally his identity crisis can be resolved and people will know that he is really somebody after all.  Of course his solution is irrefutable, but has been rescinded due to the chaos of competition that is clearly beneath someone of his stature. At a later time, a new submission, fully expounded upon, will be submitted on 666 tablets etched in stone, and the solution will be irrefutable, apodictic, and accepted as verifiable and true by all. Look for him on really really late night TV or obscene corners of the Interwebs. He will soon to be selling t-shirts with anagrams of his birth name on ebay. For Example: @elitemachinery (there will be no others)

(@shiva)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6822

Posted by: @tiger

I see no mention of you, the driving-by expounding beast follower, mentioned or numbered in the lyrics.

This is also my burden: My solution made no mention of me, so 3x31 and I are both left nameless and unaccounted for.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

@Shiva has (or had) a solution too? Well that proves it. The temptation to reach for Excalibur or least tug at it a bit is irresistible.

Had, has, and forever more non.  Um, your interpretation of my motivation is rascally. I explained all this in Insude the Law, as follows ...

Our adventures in Estes Park ("Gateway to the Rocky Mountain National Park") were interesting (banishing of ghosts, energetically clearing up the whole town, miraculous instantaneous healings, bizarre weather patterns, etc.), but the details need not concern us.

Only two "details" need mention: (1) AL code, and (2) Flashdance. ...

Everyone in our little group was delighted with my solution to the AL Code, which account had been forced upon me by peer pressure.

I’ll neither insult your intelligence and credulence, nor expose myself to your ridicule, by printing it here. It was essentially nonsense. It had no practical meaning or use.

The 'peer pressure" involved a certain lady who, in reference to some other deal not related, siad to me, "Well, now you've got to solve the code."

"No way, I replied.

She said, "Sure, you can do it."

I thought about it and, like Ignant, who follows after me in using this style, just jumped in and cranked something out. It was a joke. Too bad it made sense to the readers. It was like tossing off a book review in order to pass a course.

I am seriously (!) considering compelling everyone to greet each other, not with Do what thou wilt, but with a Recitation of Chapter 23 - Liber 333 "Skidoo.".

The deliberation (de-liberation = not "getting out") of Codes and Will is unbearable (to any human mind). What we need is more "outing" while laughing at the wonder of The Universal Joke. The respondent will respond with a full recitation of Chapter 1- Liber 333 "Onion Peelings."

Posted by: @elitemachinery

Even Ignant offered a solution (ok well it was in jest.)

However, it did follow "traditional gematria" every step of the way. It described a complete cycle. And somehow, it linked Ignant to praeterhumanship.

Posted by: @elitemachinery

.. hence the quagmire.

What quagmire? Those who have solved the code to their satisfaction have moved on to happier hunting grounds. Can you believe it? Some folks don't give a ... [plop!

Posted by: @elitemachinery

[A long list of Solvers ensues, ending with] ... Example: @elitemachinery (there will be no others)

<A haha> I see you are getting the solution joke. But the bigger hilarity lies in the fact that there is one category missing from your list: The Post-Thelema Wigouts, but maybe not, for they really don't care.

(@tiger)
Member
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Posts: 1930

@shiva posted
“ Some folks don't give a ... [plop] ! “

“ But remember to follow the love of Nu in the star-lit heaven; to look forth upon men, to tell them this glad word. “

(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 18 years ago
Posts: 4256

Posted by: @tiger

Shiva posted
“ Some folks don't give a ... [plop] ! “

“ But remember to follow the love of Nu in the star-lit heaven; to look forth upon men, to tell them this glad word. “

So what connection are you seeing between the remark by Shiva which you have highlighted, and the passage from AL which you have quoted?

(@tiger)
Member
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Posts: 1930

@michael-staley
The one that cometh; better have a better act than the love of Nu in the star-lit heaven. For me to give a plop.

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6822

Posted by: @michael-staley

So what connection are you seeing between the remark by Shiva which you have highlighted, and the passage from AL which you have quoted?

As an alternative to sigh-fer solving, which is no interest (to some), they instead (of "following" Therion) follow Nu, citing the glad word as they go.

Posted by: @tiger

The one that cometh; better have a better act than the love of Nu in the star-lit heaven. For me to give a plop.

How to make gold? That would be a better act (to catch the folks attention while intoning the glad word).

Shifting back slightly from euphoria, it now becomes necessary to get back on-topic.

Did you (or Micro, or anyone) notice that my solution made neither mention of numbers or pigeons. Not even letters or the equivalency religions. In fact, it looks suspiciously like prose.

I was the One who called for solvers to describe and/or explain their methods. Yea, Ignant was Another, calling for the Table of Equivalencies. So, in an aura of Informed Consent, I will now clear my consciousness, and my karma, by extracting and pasting the methodology - which is proclaimed (expounded?) right at the beginning of my one-page document ...

This difficult-looking, coded message is really just a Qabalistic expression of a fairy tale which describes the path of an individual and of an aeon. This fairy tale is, however, of a reality greater than the fact that the Sun rises in the morning.

What is required for penetration into the mystery is a thorough knowledge of the Qabalah, and this includes Mundane Numerology (1-9 system), ATU Numerology (1-22 system), and Cosmic Qabalah (1-Infinity system). Add a good measure of Intuition, invoke the Cosmic Automatic Overdrive, and then become as a simple-minded Child. Then the story reveals itself ...

S, you see, practically-speaking, the method involves dharana upon a single letter or number, or maybe a paif each, and then recording the vision that arises. There is no need to "prove" equivalencies or to "think up" a novel format for interpretation.

Now that I have writ aloud in a publick place, the angel of the ether rushes forward as a Class V Hurricane, crying "Thou hast revealed the mystery of simplicity - and now your butt is ejected, once again, from paradise ... 'til thouest learnest to keepeth thine mouth shutteth."

Ouch!

(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
Joined: 19 years ago
Posts: 2130

Your method seems the soundest and most "real" (even logical) one so far, but - of course, and very unfortunately - even less verifiable or undisputable than the Gematria solutions I am making fun of. Maybe it IS all a joke (not in the RTC sense)? Or do you have an idea of how to "measure" the disputabilty (is that a word?) of your "solution"? That English alphabet and new value shit of course always leads to some kind of a Gematriatic solution, so MAYBE this verse is not as important as assumed to the cypher? Or maybe it is, but I guess most people will agree that it will not lead to a name and a birthplace, please, Aiwass?

Nifty shit.

Love=Law

Lutz

(@elitemachinery)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 637

Posted by: @elitemachinery
Posted by: @elitemachinery

[A long list of Solvers ensues, ending with] ... Example: @elitemachinery (there will be no others)

I see you are getting the solution joke.

The problem I have with this "cosmic joke" is that although at times it can be light-hearted and fun...this Crowley stuff is heavy shit. Not everyone (including myself) is laughing.

I noticed the "joke" aspect of this stuff early on and in my "about" section of the original "Aleister In Wonderland" blog wrote this on Jan 10, 2011:

"But what I also see is a joke; a trick; a riddle. I see that what lays before me was put in place to be revealed at some point..."

In the "Mirror, Mirror" thread here on Lashtal from a few years back I posted this:

"But I can't help but feel at times that I have been cast as the straight man in an extended cosmic joke (Joe Blow former porn actor is the Second Coming?? WTF?!)"

(as Michael Robartes in The Second Coming)

It was about a month after starting the AIW blog in 2010...(i'd barely posted anything and no one knew about the project or blog)...when my friend in Australia emailed me and said he wanted me to play Michael Robartes in his strange no budget indie flick The Second Coming.

He knew I was retiring from porn in a month or so and created this project out of thin air. I immediately thought the Gods were setting up some sort of joke with myself cast as the straight man. I chuckled a bit but kept my mouth shut. My friend and his project were serious.

I'd heard of Yeats of course but had never studied his work. I'm a self-educated hack. So my transformation from Joe Blow to Michael Robartas began with a trip to Pattaya and a few Yeats books and then back to Hollywood shooting a handheld indie movie by director Richard Wolstencroft (who had a bad habit of sometimes [DELETED By MODERATOR] before he started to shoot a scene.)

--hence the somewhat serious cottonmouth portrait above--

Although i've never wavered in my story and my assertion that reincarnation is what I think the evidence is leaning towards, I am willing to believe (and be relieved at that!) that something else is required of me and that being an "actor" on assignment might be a way to distance myself from the seriousness of the work, without taking myself too seriously.

Playing a role as an actor, an assignment, may be a way to make this about the work, and Crowley, and less about me trying to "prove" something.

I got the joke early on. But that doesn't mean i'm not terrified. That's what I am trying to say.

I've been looking for escape hatches since 2010 when the project started.

(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6822

Posted by: @elitemachinery

The problem I have with this "cosmic joke" is that although at times it can be light-hearted and fun...this Crowley stuff is heavy shit.

Well, okay. (It's the Universal Joke, by the way - that is, it can be universally applied to anything). (Unless it can't).

So you're having trouble seeing the Joke. In fact, your sanity is prevailing over silliness. Let's try a different approach ...

[Approach #2]  Now, seriously (for a change), what is your problem? That is, simply speaking, disturbing you about the "code," the "solvers," the high number of "solvers," or the distorted backdrop of conditions?

The distorted backdrop is the endless chatter about "equations," "my name," the use of "gematria," (or "not"), or is it just that nothing practical or even an abstract principle or notion, is forthcoming ... and that people are arguing or [gasp] pooing on others 'efforts?

Really. I'll give up the Great Joke thing for awhile. What's going wrong here?

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