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 Anonymous
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War

The war motif found in Liber AL is usually interpreted symbolically or metaphorically. Why is this necessarily the only valid interpretation of the phrases and commentaries in Liber AL that are related to war? Crowley made several references to historical events and objects in regards to war in the commentaries.

The vast majority of Thelemites appear to be plagued by a happy-joy “can’t we all just get along” mentality. This manifests in their disregard for the martial spirit of the Aeon. Thelema is viewed as a liberating force for all of humanity. The Law is for all, after all. Why is this “all” necessarily all of humanity? Thelema is antagonistic to the Aeon of Osiris, so why not the people living under its aegis? Is Thelema going to be a force that brings about a new Golden Age of peace, tolerance and brotherhood for all of humanity? Horus is a god of war. Prepare for war! The glorious Golden Age may not come until the Aeon of Hrumachis.

Could Thelema be a philosophy intended for a spiritual elite - separatists that must hunker down, prepare for war, fortify themselves and survive at all costs? The militancy, the warrior spirit, and the aristocracy of Thelema seem to M.I.A.. Organizations like the O.T.O. have stripped “war” from “warrior-monk”. The Templars were a military order trained in combat on the physical plane. They had no qualms about crushing their enemies with force. Literal war can be viewed as an extension to or manifestation of an internal spiritual war. Is Liber AL a survival manual for a new breed of warrior-monk that must fight (quite literally) in the new Dark Age, the Kali Yuga, the Iron Age that we are currently living in?

Can the force of Thelema operate on humanity as a whole before the crushing grip of the degenerate modern world is ended by a severe collapse? Such a collapse is destined to destroy millions of humans. This is as a good thing. There are simply far too many people on this planet; the poor Earth can’t take it. The strong, the fit and (most importantly) the prepared will survive. Go forth with a wand in one hand and an assault rifle in the other! Nature will take its course and cull the herd.

No doubt such ideas are unsettling, especially to the modern egalitarian. To them we say: Equal men are not free and free men are not equal. The collision of stars is as necessary as it is beautiful. Diversity, true diversity, is the result of and the cause of conflict. Peace is death. War is life.

One of the (many) pertinent lines of Liber AL along with portions of its commentary:

AL III,18: "Mercy let be off: damn them who pity! Kill and torture; spare not; be upon them!"

An end to the humanitarian mawkishness which is destroying the human race by the deliberate artificial protection of the unfit.

Should we not rather breed humanity for quality by killing off any tainted stock, as we do with other cattle? And exterminating the vermin which infect it, especially Jews and Protestant Christians?


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
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😯

Phew! I bet you feel better, having got that off your chest, eh?

Sounds like the Nazi / Al Qaeda branch of Thelema to me, complete with ant-semitism and eugenics. No thanks. I don't feel the need to swallow things wholesale, as the actress said to the bishop.

😆


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 Anonymous
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ya, you just can't go around killing people. learn to swim. humans will take care of there own problems no need to push the issue..


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 Anonymous
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Thelema without Jewish influence? How well thought out, sir! (Do you breed much, sir?) 🙄


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 Anonymous
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And why the Jews and protestant Christians?..

One thing I agree with: you cannot make Thelema "politically correct". The spirit of Liber AL should not fall prey to convenient interpretation. I must say I never understood the OTO slogan "Peace, Tolerance, Truth" - if only it is not a PR tool.


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 Anonymous
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There seems to be some confusion. All of the text in italics below the Liber AL entry is a quote from Crowley's commentary on Liber AL. As far as going around killing people, we all have that right according to Liber OZ (if your true will is being thwarted, of course). We do not advocate murder or genocide for its own sake. "Nature will take its course and cull the herd."


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Michael Staley
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"ORG.618" wrote:
There seems to be some confusion. All of the text in italics below the Liber AL entry is a quote from Crowley's commentary on Liber AL. As far as going around killing people, we all have that right according to Liber OZ (if your true will is being thwarted, of course). We do not advocate murder or genocide for its own sake. "Nature will take its course and cull the herd."

So because Crowley said it, we should do it, eh? If Crowley had written that you should stick your head in a gas oven, would you have done that too?

Thought not.


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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And just a reminder: Liber Oz is not a Class A text...

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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 Anonymous
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"MichaelStaley" wrote:
So because Crowley said it, we should do it, eh? If Crowley had written that you should stick your head in a gas oven, would you have done that too?

Thought not.

This fragment of Crowley's commentary was used to illustrate the antagonistic, militant and extreme posture that is in the spirit of Thelema and the Aeon of Horus. All we advocate is doing your true will, whatever that might be.


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spike418
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Fuckwits are us!
Joy of joys
Bring on zyclon B and lets eliminate everyone who disagrees with us, ah I mean me ?
As brothers fight ye? Well from my perspective I only have two sisters . Bugger thats my eternal life gone..................
Fuck it, have stuff to do people to see. ethnic cleansing will have to wait until the wkend..............


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 Anonymous
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

*II, 45. There is death for the dogs.

*II, 49. I am unique & conqueror. I am not of the slaves that perish. Be they damned & dead! Amen.

*II, 58. ...the slaves shall serve.

*III, 7. I will give you a war-engine.
*III, 8. With it ye shall smite the peoples; and none shall stand before you.

*III, 11. ...Worship me with fire & blood; worship me with swords & with spears...

As mentioned in the first post: III, 18. Mercy let be off; damn them who pity! Kill and torture; spare not; be upon them!

*III, 28. Also ye shall be strong in war.

*III, 42. ...Them that seek to entrap thee, to overthrow thee, them attack without pity or quarter; & destroy them utterly. Swift as a trodden serpent turn and strike! Be thou yet deadlier than he! Drag down their souls to awful torment: laugh at their fear: spit upon them!

*III, 46. ...I will be at your arms in battle & ye shall delight to slay. Success is your proof; courage is your armour; go on, go on, in my strength; & ye shall turn not back for any!

*III, 57. 57. Despise also all cowards; professional soldiers who dare not fight, but play; all fools despise!

Idle verses? I think not

Love is the law, love under will


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Anonymous
 Anonymous
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Hmmm....when was Oz written? Does the time (damn..there I said it) when it was written have any relevance? Well, if it doesn't, maybe we should start sawing heads off on camera like some of the MO Rons in the Middle East to prove how REALLY, REALLy dedicated we are to the "truthfull" interpretation of Liber AL we are. We ain't no Thelemic pussies! Off with their heads!!!


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Cronus
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You mention "The war motif found in Liber AL" along with the "Aeon of Horus" in your post so I assume you're referring strictly to chapter 3 of The Book of the Law and not the book in whole? I agree with you about chapter 3 painting a pretty unsettling picture, especially the first time I read it. Isn't the beauty and general rule in whole regarding The Book of the Law to not talk about your personal interpretation of its contents though? I respect what the verses themselves mean to you, but I think it should stop there; maybe that's why you're not getting the type of response you're looking for from others on this forum...

After reading your post and the response from others, "The Comment" came to mind:

"Those who discuss the contents of this Book are to be shunned by all, as centres of pestilence."

But really, what do I know anyways. I'm not a Thelemite, I just enjoy reading books by Crowley and the study of the Occult in general. 😉


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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War...hmmm...

Yes, Horus is a God of War, but is not a "God of War Just For The Hell Of It."

Certainly war, in and of itself, is not Thelemic. Current wars are driven by short-sighted nationalistic/oligarchic concerns. I would shudder to have to think of Bush or Blair as having Thelemic intentions, even though they are technically "war gods" (or is that "war dogs" - I get confused).

Some Thelemites can be a bit martial - I don't blame them, but I have to think that the Liber AL references to war and related topics as mostly a metaphor.

After all if Liber AL is somehow a manual for Thelemic warriors, we're in trouble. Thelema is no more a war machine than it is a political machine. If we had to fight actual armed forces - we're boned.

Also, remember that when you slay your enemy you may, or may not, actually kill him.

"Mercy be off..." - does that count blasting Tool when Jehovah's Witnesses come to the door??

By the way - where's my war engine...I keep waiting...

But seriously (even though many will probably find this silly) what if:
1) Magick really is Art, and
2) The war engine is already here, just not generally recognized

...and what if the war engine is an electric guitar (and bass, and piano, etc. - rock n' roll in general)

Who are the most famous current Thelemites? Here's to Page, Bowie, Fripp, Carey, et al.

Who influenced more people, Page or the OTO?
(That's not meant as a hit against the OTO)

This puts a somewhat different perspective of future battles and battlefields.

Tiresias


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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
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In Louis Wilkinson's Intro to the Commentary (whose quote has evoked all this response), he writes:

"In some one phrase or other of the Book there is a direct message for every human being. The best way for the layman to approach this book is to regard it as a letter written directly to himself."

Turning it all into the matrix of the soul, there becomes possible an interface with the Energy Current manifest in the words of the Book. This is a point which can't be argued...either you read AL and project onto it-or it's energy, it's "coding," downloads into you and begins its vast transmutative process. Simple words unfold into depth realities Beyond Words. But not Beyond Effect. 2:27 is well worth consideration here: "There is great danger in me; for who doth not understand these runes shall make a great miss..." And understanding isn't slotting concepts into the "Because" sector of the brain.

I concur with AL that there are the bloodiest acts of warfare to be engaged in. But of what nature? When Crowley spoke of sacrificing the male child in MTP, I think we've all come to what he was really talking about (and if not, please reference Lon Milo DuQuette's Thelemic Primer).

With that in mind, I see level after level in the energy pulse of the book goes far deeper than a surface read would grant. We all know the casual Crowleyite who reads "Do What Thou Wilt" as "Do Whatever The Hell You Feel Like..." And yet in this very Commentary, he admonishes us to not only discover and DO our Will-but to BE it. And this Angel itself goes splattering into the Cup of Babalon on the Abyss Cross...what emerges on that distant shore? Will is a much greater word than the Reasoning Mind can comprehend...

The Lotus Sutra states that the Buddha Nature can only be shared between two Buddhas. I'll put out that Liber AL is such a "Buddha Nature" and is "read" by the "Buddha Nature" at the Core of our Being.

All that radiates outwards from this point is the Redemption of the World. The World of One's Own Truth in which the Brother of the AA lives, moves and has his GO-ing.

What follows writes the Myth of your life...and "how splendid is the Adventure."

I don't think there is ANY "idle verse" in Liber AL.

Let's do as Odinn, Nights All Nine, and take the Runes!

Love is the Law, Love Under Will.

Kyle


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 Anonymous
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He only COP'd a little bit. Just one line. The rest was quoting scripture, just like the Baptists.

Two Crows
Corvid of War & Vengeance

p.s. – You got your War Engine. You’re typing on it.


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 Anonymous
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While my personal interpretation of the verses within the Book of the Law are strictly placed in an indivdualistic light, I have never and will never discount the fact that if a movement were began in a militaristic and business fashion I would sternly stand as part of it.

If those few who are left refuse to go with the flow of change, it is up to us all to take up arms against that. In whatever fashion is best suited to our indivdual natures. War need not be wholly regulated to the battlefield.

You cannot read the verses of the Book of the Law, or the comment, and not take into account that it very much advocates action against such things as Christianity, Islam, etc...

But, I suppose it would be interesting to ask, do we have to approach this fact from a fundamentalist standpoint? That we should be martyrs? I don't think so. I think Thelemites are generally more clever than that.


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 Anonymous
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Org.618:
I think any confusion could have been avoided with a clearer posting style. Bringing on the 'Might is Right' is always going to provoke mild piss-taking rather than hushed awe. And is it the Royal 'we', or are you writing on behalf of the local junior einsatzkommando, proving to them how you can scare sissies with your big meaty Will?
Its a valid point about AL, though. I completetely agree that it probably does get toned down by some who don't want to do the spiritual hard work. (Obviously nobody here though 😉 )

But seriously, whilst strrrrrroking your wand and grrrrasping your assault rifle...................

How do you type?


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 Anonymous
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The first message has a valid point (not the genocide part), Thelema can not be understood as part of some "happy-joy “can’t we all just get along” mentality", after all it was Crowley himself who wrote "our law is the law of the jungle", meaning the Law is the law of nature, only the strong survive.

This doesn't mean that the strong should go ahead and begin some ethnic cleansing, it means that the weak will, eventually, disappear and the strong will overcome, and this is something that MUST happen through a natural course. For instance, christianity is weak, a weak religion for weak people, that doesn't mean that the christians should die, that means christianity will, eventually, fade away.

I have to admit there's another side of me, when concerning this issue, the "war motif", Thelema and power go hand by hand. Thelema is centered upon the Will, and power is the manifestation of Will, so sometimes, I must admit and confess, I think thelemites should harvest as much power as possible, in the personal life and sense of the strong will, but also, if it is they're True Will, power in the other sense, political power, cultural power, etc.

If Thelema is all about the Will, and power is the manifestation of the Will, why not harvest power in the physical plane?, I'm not sure of it, but I get the sense that it would be a natural consequence of Thelema, a race to attain power, be strong (and survive), after all, the slaves shall serve.


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 Anonymous
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

"asclepio" wrote:
The first message has a valid point (not the genocide part), Thelema can not be understood as part of some "happy-joy “can’t we all just get along” mentality", after all it was Crowley himself who wrote "our law is the law of the jungle", meaning the Law is the law of nature, only the strong survive.

This doesn't mean that the strong should go ahead and begin some ethnic cleansing, it means that the weak will, eventually, disappear and the strong will overcome, and this is something that MUST happen through a natural course. For instance, christianity is weak, a weak religion for weak people, that doesn't mean that the christians should die, that means christianity will, eventually, fade away.

I have to admit there's another side of me, when concerning this issue, the "war motif", Thelema and power go hand by hand. Thelema is centered upon the Will, and power is the manifestation of Will, so sometimes, I must admit and confess, I think thelemites should harvest as much power as possible, in the personal life and sense of the strong will, but also, if it is they're True Will, power in the other sense, political power, cultural power, etc.

If Thelema is all about the Will, and power is the manifestation of the Will, why not harvest power in the physical plane?, I'm not sure of it, but I get the sense that it would be a natural consequence of Thelema, a race to attain power, be strong (and survive), after all, the slaves shall serve.

i know exactly what You mean and i agree. a master of every situation...

Love is the law, love under will.


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 Anonymous
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In my (pestilential) opinion, Liber AL, like all "divinely" inspired scriptures, has several layers of meaning, each of which can be quite different depending on one's level of initiation, insight and experience. One can be led far astray by a literal, surface reading. A cursory glance at some Hindu and Tibetan Buddhist iconography, with scimitar-wielding gods dancing on corpses with garlands of severed heads hanging from their necks, would make one think those yellow devils practice bloody rites of human sacrifice on a daily basis. They don't. The "enemies" are aspects of the Self that are annihilated in the course of spiritual growth. Human slaughter is not intended.

I take a lot of the warlike passages in AL, especially in Chapter III, as descriptions of the nature of the Age of Horus, NOT as prescriptions for personal conduct. There are more than enough religious fanatics in the world right now acting out those passages, I don't think it is our jobs as Thelemites to add to that madness.

Then again... there was a "news special" on American network TV last night on different scenarios of the Last Days of Earth, ranging from a black hole sucking the Earth into a quantum singularity, to eruption of a Very Big Volcano, to nuclear war or global warming (the latter being the most certain to happen). In each scenario, civilization as we know it would be destroyed. We as Thelemites and harbingers of the Aeon of Horus should be prepared for that, to ensure that the Light is not snuffed out completely, assuming a new civilization will even be possible after The Big One.

nick


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 Anonymous
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"If Thelema is all about the Will, and power is the manifestation of the Will, why not harvest power in the physical plane?"

Hi Asclepio,
I'm not an expert on Thelema, so I don't know if it's all about Will (as opposed to balance, illumination, love etc...) but I do have doubts about power being its manifestation, as opposed to clarity, non-attachment, wisdom and compassion (in the Buddhist sense) etc. When power is conceptualised as something to be attained, I think it misses the point, which should be that power (physical, mental, whatever) is gained as a by-product of single-minded devotion/absorption/attention to Nuit. That's mainly why I was a bit catty with org.618, who appeared to be raving on about RHK style dominion as if it was something that could be harvested and not gained only by giving everything (power trips and all)into the Cup.
I realise that my perspective is coloured by a Daoist background, and I may be painting Thelema to fit my prejudice, but I found powerful resonance between the True Will and Wu-Wei, in its 'effortless effort'.
I hope that was fairly clear, and wish to add the caveat that this is only my opinion from personal experience. Happy to discuss.


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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ORG.618,

"ORG.618" wrote:
the antagonistic, militant and extreme posture that is in the spirit of Thelema and the Aeon of Horus. All we advocate...

First, the "spirit" of Thelema that interests me is not "antagonistic, militant and extreme".

Secondly, who is the "we" that's doing the advocating that you refer to?

Thirdly, you ought to re-read your quotation from the Commentaries in context and consider whether just possibly you've fallen for a bit of a leg-pull. There's more than a hint of irony in Crowley's remark.

Finally, this thread is now locked.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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