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dom
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19/06/2019 8:29 pm  

I feel that this thread was cut short by ….well....by someone ruining it before it was locked. Here it is again;

https://www.lashtal.com/forums/topic/what-of-the-children-of-thelemites/

Ignant said;

Many of us here have kids, and i am curious what folks may, or may not, have done as far as their children’s education.
AC makes many recommendations, most crazy (children should witness their parents, and if possible others, having sex throughout childhood), to various pseudo-Christian practices (saying “Will” before meals – has anyone actually done this for more than say a week? Why?), etc.
With my son, the only religious training he got was the D’Aulaire Greek, Roman, and Norse myth books.
When my father died when he was 8, he said “Now grandpa has gone to Valhalla, or perhaps to Hades’ realm”.
Another good story: when he was five and acting up during some tourism, my mother said “Hush, this is a church!” He replied, making daddy very proud ,”What’s a church, grandma?”. The story about him seeing a crucifix and yelling about “that man Fucking” (“his name’s Jesus, not Fucking” “i knew his name was a bad word”) is too long to tell.
How have you talked to your kids about “god”/”gods”, religion, spirituality, Thelema, or other topics, or have you avoided saying anything at all about these things as i have?
______________________
I have urged him to read the bible now that he is a teenager, just as i have urged him to listen to various music, or watch films or look at some type of art.
He is much more interested in what we call “the Satan worship” (Dungeons & Dragons; he plays with home-schooled Xian kids whose parents worry they will go to Hell bc of my son’s dungeon-mastering- “Call or text us if the Satan worship is running past 11!”) and trying to play guitar like Jimmy Page and Robert Fripp.
And in case you think these latter are my forming him: i think it is commendable that a 16-year-old can play the solos from “Stairway to Heaven” or “21st Century Schizoid Man” but i don’t think he or she should do it in public, any more than they should masturbate in front of folks. In any case i would prefer some Lou, Johnny Thunders, or Wayne Kramer solos (which he can also do but he digs the prog).


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ignant666
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20/06/2019 2:03 am  

Well, i said my bit, as quoted above.

Update- i interrupted my 16 year old son studying for his year-end exams and asked him the following:

1) Q: What are your thoughts on god, and religion and so on? A: I just don't care, it doesn't matter. [Is god real?] I just don't care either way.

2) Q: What do you think of your religious education? A: Poor. You mean like Norse and Greek myths and stuff? [Yes] It's just useless, no one's going to point a gun at you and ask 'Who was Persephone?'

I feel we did a good job. His mother is not a Thelemite. She was raised as a Kardecian Spiritualist, with considerable overlays of macumba and other Brazilian low/medium magick.


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Tiger
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20/06/2019 5:48 am  

capoeira Futhark and the living atu

before learning
what the law
says
regardless
of understanding

you will be taxed
and rendered
unto Ceaser

in reference
to post number #6#6#6
lion serpent sun

spilled
from another thread
per Hapi per haps


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dom
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20/06/2019 8:55 pm  

Crowley's son, I wonder how his lungs turned out.


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dom
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21/06/2019 12:02 am  

I feel we did a good job. His mother is not a Thelemite

What are you basing the "good job" on?

A parent can only lead by example I feel.

I understand that AC's approach to child-rearing was to let him put his hand in the fire so he may learn that one gets burned by putting one's hand in the fire. Darwinian liberalism I guess you could call it.

I used to watch the TV show Supernanny where a nanny goes into a household to try and help parents to sort out unruly difficult children. I wonder what AC would've made of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN6xr9KAqUU

Is a parent supposed to turn out a model citizen and what is that anyway? I have my own answers but maybe some children are just destined to grow up into , um, non model citizens. It's a question of nature or nurture.


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Shiva
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21/06/2019 2:52 am  

Crowley's son, the publickly recognized one is now dead. Aleister Ataturk McSomething. Don't you have any respect for the dead?

Aleister, Jr. was looked after, for a while by the member of Agape Lodge. He moved around a lot amongst them. He was desribed as being "the most morose and the darkest person we had ever met." Apparently, he radiated despair and tribulation. That's why he got to live with so many people. Everyone wanted to move him along to the next wardens as soon as possible.

Of course, he was not raised by his father.


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dom
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21/06/2019 8:59 am  

He was desribed as being “the most morose and the darkest person we had ever met.”

Aha!! How gothic is that? Ha! Lurch from the Adams Family.


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ignant666
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21/06/2019 2:00 pm  

While Crowley was a pretty terrible father, at least one of his step-children (who loathed AC) turned out OK:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Sturges

There were a number of women involved in Agape Lodge in California. Jane Wolfe seems to have had no children. Phyllis Seckler had at least one child. What happened to her/them?

For a philosophy/religion/practice that is more then a century old, there must be many who grew up with Thelemite parents, and grandparents, by now.

Many in the (c)OTO leadership seem to be childless, perhaps due to their, um, practices.


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dom
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21/06/2019 5:11 pm  

Jaz Coleman's daughters are apparently hip hop fans.

Oh shit. That's not a good sign.

So were you a liberal parent ignant?

Some of my friends call their parents by their first names. Haha.


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Shiva
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21/06/2019 5:48 pm  

One member of Solar Lodge had a kid. Rhe member split from Solar and the kid grew up. He joined the (c)OTO. Not much further on that. But in his private life, he and his dirlfriend/wife (status unknown) decided to take up the heroin habit. They repeatedly went to daddy (the ex-member) for money. Heroin costs a lot if one uses it a lot and builds up a tolerance (also known as addiction). Around 2009-10, said ex-member (who was an attorney involved in real estate deals) saw a massive drop in income, due to the real estate financial meltdown, and he had to inform the next generation that there was no money available for heroin donations.

The next generation expressed great disappointment and became very angry.

Frater Aquarius and Soror Venus (this is merely a codename for her in Inside Solar Lodge), got together to perform some IX* work. If performed correctly, there's not supposed to be an offspring (but that's only a rumor, and I don't believe it). In this case, a female offspring was generated, so the parents got married.

I met her three times. She was in her late 20s or early 30s at that time. She presented with a "normal" demeanor. Many years later, Martin Starr met her in the process of buying the deceased Aquarius' library from her. She was described as being in the real estate business, and was very nice.

---------------

One thing we don't see in all these flashback reminiscences of Thelemic offspring is the part where the son or daughter takes up the burden of the Path. I don't think we can consider short-term membership in (c)OTO as being more than a quick in-and-0ut of the Tong.


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ignant666
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21/06/2019 5:54 pm  

"Liberal" parent? Well, i am a commie (anarchist/communist to be specific), but not so "liberal" perhaps in childrearing.

He calls us "pai" and "mai" ("dad" and "mom" in Portuguese). There was a brief period when he was a small child where he called me by my first name; this was his own initiative and brief.

We always encouraged our son to think for himself, to be quick to question authority, to defend himself physically. On the other hand, he knows we expect him to get very good grades (he does; high honor roll every marking period). He is 16; i cannot recall ever having to get him up for school since he was 11 or so. We have never had any sort of serious argument with him.

He is very responsible, popular with his peers and teachers, and his boss at his job loves him. He has informed us that he intends to have girlfriends, to smoke weed, and to do acid once he is in college, but thinks doing those things in high school is stupid.

He does not like the hip-hop; as i mentioned, he is into classic and prog rock mostly, and a very serious guitar player. He has a Beatle haircut, and says he has the longest hair of any boy in his school.


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christibrany
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21/06/2019 6:36 pm  

Happy Solstice LAShTALians and a 93

Apologies for not answering questions (Jamie) but I tend to avoid computers in my free time due to being on them every work day.

Me and the missus don't want kids, but if we did I would probably raise them like my dad raised me, not very liberal and not very conservative. Just a good mix of discipline, manners, respect, with just enough loosening of the leash to allow for injury, and learning and self and world exploration alone and with friends...
My mom was very sad when she learnt we don't want to give her grandkids, as my sister was unable to bear a kid somehow. But the Good News is that my sister's pregnant for real so congrats to her 😀

@Jamie I think we had an AC black brother type thread I should continue my LHP RHP ramblings there if I can find it.

@Shiva happy almost 80th Lesser Feast ! My dad didn't even get to make it to 65 sadly..I wonder what will happen to moi.

Chris

93s


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christibrany
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21/06/2019 6:46 pm  

and a PS
@Shiva . Parents buying their children heroin is pretty effed up....to put it lightly.

@Ignant I think I told you but my wife is Portuguese. I am presuming your wife is Brazilian? If I recall correctly Mai is more Brazilian but I may be wrong. Wife is mad I haven't learnt Portuguese. But I am pretty full already with Korean, German, and French.


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ignant666
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21/06/2019 7:19 pm  

"Mai" is short for "mamai", which is more or less "mom", at least in Brazil, where the wife is indeed from.

Evidently your wife is a quieter woman than mine. I did not learn Portuguese on purpose, but she shouts on the phone (Brazil is long distance, after all), so i had no choice. It chased out most of the Spanish, and some of the French, as i evidently have limited mental capacity in this area.

We will visit Portugal this summer, heading to Porto to visit some Brazilian friends who have retired there. My first time there, wife has been before.


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dom
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21/06/2019 9:07 pm  

@ignant

“Liberal” parent? Well, i am a commie (anarchist/communist to be specific), but not so “liberal” perhaps in childrearing.

You're a commie? I take it you're not a fan of the communist socialist experiments that we've had so far? North Korea, East Germany, U.S.S.R, Cuba?

We always encouraged our son to think for himself, to be quick to question authority,

Like s young Al Capone? He was suspended from school for punching a nun if not mistaken. Seriously, the point is, authority is good in a lot of situatiuons e.g. traffic cops. I have myriad other examples.

On the other hand, he knows we expect him to get very good grades (he does; high honor roll every marking period).

So he's on his way to be managerial level or an academic? Unless he wants to rebel against that. This is what I was talking about with elitemachinery the boy chess champion who went on to truck driving and then adult movie acting. Grades? Schmades.

We have never had any sort of serious argument with him

That's good. My uncle told his sons to do what the fuck they want. One of them volunteers to help disabled people. I guess that's Thelemic nobility in action right there; the risk and gamble.

He is very responsible, popular with his peers and teachers, and his boss at his job loves him. He has informed us that he intends to have girlfriends, to smoke weed, and to do acid once he is in college, but thinks doing those things in high school is stupid.

I agree, there's something creepy about teens doing weed and acid.

@christibrany

like my dad raised me, not very liberal and not very conservative. Just a good mix of discipline, manners, respect, with just enough loosening of the leash to allow for injury, and learning and self and world exploration alone and with friends…

That's all a bit Tree of Life also. A pillar on either side.


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ignant666
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21/06/2019 9:41 pm  

1) Yes, i am a communist, with a little "c", because i think capitalism grinds down the many for the benefit of a very few, and can be replaced with a more humane system. But i am also (being a Thelemite) an anarchist- an anti-authoritarian who sees liberty for all as the highest ideal. As such, i heartily despise the totalitarian state-capitalist regimes that have falsely claimed to be "socialist". In practical politics, i am a far-left Democrat.

2) As to encouraging the young to question authority: young people have plenty of authority and discipline crammed down their gullets in school. Not all of it is rational/legitimate. Kids need to know their parents will support them when they are right in refusing.

As far as i know, my son has never even been in the same room with a nun, let alone punched one. He has been in fewer fights in his life than i was usually in by lunch-time at his age, but that is a generational thing i think. Kids these days are much less violent than we were in the '70s.

3) Kids doing what the fuck they want: Yes, within limits. He was the only kid in 6th grade with a BB gun, and the envy of his peers. We have never limited, censored, or inquired into the boy's reading or internet use. He was familiar with 4Chan by age 9 or so. He was not allowed to swear until he was 12 (that seemed a long time in the future when this rule was made age 6 or so). We used to tell him that if he got bad grades, we would make him live in the yard until he was 16, but now he is almost 17.

3) "Grades? Schmades.": We have no money to pay for the boy to go to college (university). Thus, it is on him to get grades that will get him into an elite university that will fully fund his education. He is doing that. Not because of a desire (from us or him) that he should be "managerial level or an academic", but because being educated is a good thing in and of itself.

I certainly hope he has sense enough not to become an academic, or, gods forbid, a research scientist like dear old dad. I used to tell the grants staff at the university where i worked that they should have a big office poster that said "Mamas, Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Live On Soft Money" (a reference to a country song that made the same plea re growing up to be cowboys; "soft money" means "having to go out and get grant money if you want a salary to go with that title and office").

4) "[A] good mix of discipline, manners, respect, with just enough loosening of the leash to allow for injury, and learning and self and world exploration alone and with friends...": Says what i have been trying to say about how we tried to raise our son better than i have.


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Tiger
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21/06/2019 10:05 pm  

Communal Anarchy for everybody !
Sweet. Everyone included !


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dom
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21/06/2019 11:46 pm  

@ignant

1) Yes, i am a communist, with a little “c”,

……...

This seems um, fantastical i.e. not much to do with reality...………...

In practical politics, i am a far-left Democrat.

Yep, now you're making more sense.

By the way you know that capitalism tends to allow people to get what they want easily and efficiently moreso like say a Stooges album, baseball bats, cough mixture or a good variety of wine whereas socialist economies tend to go to shit where things like queuing for bread or a pair of jeans are common?

2) As to encouraging the young to question authority: young people have plenty of authority and discipline crammed down their gullets in school. Not all of it is rational/legitimate. Kids need to know their parents will support them when they are right in refusing.

Yeah sure, no one wants a Stepford Wife idiot or a Sarah Palin creationist idiot for a mother.

As far as i know, my son has never even been in the same room with a nun, let alone punched one. He has been in fewer fights in his life than i was usually in by lunch-time at his age, but that is a generational thing i think. Kids these days are much less violent than we were in the ’70s

I've heard it said that the 70s were more violent both in the UK and the USA. Why do you think that is/was?

3) “Grades? Schmades.”: We have no money to pay for the boy to go to college (university). Thus, it is on him to get grades that will get him into an elite university that will fully fund his education. He is doing that. Not because of a desire (from us or him) that he should be “managerial level or an academic”, but because being educated is a good thing in and of itself.

Are you sure you want him to get good grades because you don't want him to work in McDonalds as an adult? Are you sure you're an anarchist? That seems to be a typical middle-class aspirational attitude that you have. Think of e.g. Colin Wilson, he never went to a university and he picked up/consumed all of the knowledge he needed. Good for him he made a career out of it.


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ignant666
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22/06/2019 1:23 am  

Are you sure you want him to get good grades because you don’t want him to work in McDonalds as an adult? Are you sure you’re an anarchist? That seems to be a typical middle-class aspirational attitude that you have.

Another thing capitalism provides, besides Stooges records, baseball bats, cough medicine, and wine, is lots of shitty jobs that pay next to nothing, have irregular and constantly changing hours, and suck every minute that you are at work. Jobs like working at McDonalds.

Being critical of power, hierarchy, and authority (ie an "anarchist") does not imply a desire to be bored, shit upon, and/or exploited during one's work life- in fact rather the opposite. Lots of good jobs don't depend on post secondary education (such as being a plumber or electrician), but the kinds of good jobs available to the artsy-fartsy sort of person my son is tend to require a degree.

Being an anarchist is also not incompatible with being a snob. I did my undergraduate work at one of the best universities in the US; i learned a great deal. I want the same quality of education for my son.


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Tiger
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22/06/2019 2:26 am  

The legislator that spends $30 on breakfast $50 for lunch and $200 for dinner not to mention the phone bill has legislated that a living wage is relative .

you get the same math in a local university as you do in the ivy league
what the ivy league provides is a network
(to make it worth the money)

like the kid in an educated neighbor hood
who can afford to intern at the court, hospital, investment corporation, engineering department etc

as over seen by the democratic
and republican legislators

you get paid holidays in academics and get to sit around more
with blue collar work you don’t have to pay to exercise


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dom
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22/06/2019 2:48 am  

Another thing capitalism provides, besides Stooges records, baseball bats, cough medicine, and wine, is lots of shitty jobs that pay next to nothing, have irregular and constantly changing hours, and suck every minute that you are at work. Jobs like working at McDonalds.

See Gurdjieff.

Being an anarchist is also not incompatible with being a snob. I did my undergraduate work at one of the best universities in the US; i learned a great deal. I want the same quality of education for my son

Like I said earlier education comes from a book (not a building). Fair enough aa I guess Bakunin and pals may've attended the best universities in Tsarist Russia... where they probably met like-minded friends.


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Shiva
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22/06/2019 3:01 am  

d: By the way you know that capitalism tends to allow people to get what they want easily and efficiently ... whereas socialist economies tend to go to shit where things like queuing for bread or a pair of jeans are common?

This is true. But I don't think Ignant's ideal commune is like contemporary, socialist countries. Let's examine the difference:

1. Today, such places are merely called "Communist" and are "for the people." These places are run by capitalist thugs, who merely run the country for efficiency in supporting an "upper class" of rich folks. Said "class" being determined by how much you support the ideas of the leader. The lower classes are considered as dumb animals who must be looked after ... but never allowed to run free. These places usually have a strong police & military, and if someone (like dom, or Ig, or Jamie*) causes a disturbance, the "State" comes down brutally upon them.

* or Me,

2. Ideal communism would revolve around an industry and an ecomony that is administered for the people. It is administered by a benevolent State, and the profits do not rise up to the top, but are either put back into better or more production, or are fed back into community services. Efficient production would lead to reduces prices. The fly in this ointment is that very few human beings can assume a position of control (over anything) and not look for ways (any ways) to benefit him/herself at the loss of efficiency in the system. This characteristic is called greed or selfishness.

Greed is the Word of the Kali Yuga.

Our capitalistic, so-called "western" culture is capitalistic. Capital = cash. Money talks. So we find a so-called democracy is actually a "representative democracy" where people vote to elect somebody to do the administrative work ... who are immediately swept away into taking bribes to vote a certain way by capital interests (covered up "contributions to a PAC).

So democracy, everywhere, is controlled by those with capital. The usual ratio indicates that the upper 10% consume more than the lower 90%, with only 1% being in the ultimate driver's seat. These folks are known as the "deep state," and we rarely see them in the halls of government.

All those socialist countries are doing their best to turn "Communism" into Capitalism, with the current leader and his crew (it's always a him, isn't it?) as the upper 1%.

It's all a question of whose gang is tougher. Why is it that certain countries forged ahead into a new age of economics (like UK, USA, and associates), while other countries stayed behind (like Borneo, Sudan, and their like)? We have discussed the concept/fact that different cultures go through their yugas at different rates and at different times.

So I believe that I agree with Ignant in that any system should allow support and freedom to the individual (the antichrist, oh no strike that, anarchist). But sorry, there's got to be a system in place to feed the anarchists and keep the crazy anarchists in line. A truly so-called communistic approach would work if only the administratore could be kept from megalomania, greed, and persecution of that other guy's religious belief. Aleister hoped the OTO would fill that position.

Say, iv'e just finished putting all this down on video. The first ray, specializing in destruction, war, politics, and bureaus has been completed (1 hr, 08 min) and is already posted to the web, but not at that creepy youTube site. I'm now checking for availability and continuity at the new full-length Megatron site. So that's my excuse for bowing out now: I just erected all this in audio-visual format, and will be delivering the link to y'all soon. But let me give you one clue, one key statement that will integrate all this capital/commune stuff ...

Ashram 1,4, The Crown (the ruler) can only be occupied by a Master of the Temple. Says so in the Video!

Yeah, that's ideal. How long do you think it'll take to get an 8=3 on the throne ... who is first ray and can handle the job?


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Jamie J Barter
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22/06/2019 3:27 am  

@dom :

I agree, there’s something creepy about teens doing weed and acid.
Do they suddenly undergo an abrupt transformation and immediately become less creepy on the day that they pass their 20th birthday? I am probably setting myself up for some sort of snarky would-be humorous comeback but I am living proof that, in my early to mid-teens at least, it never did me any harm (and I would venture to suggest even a modicum of good too as a learning experience). I have no regrets for a minute, but it all depends on set and setting as someone you once praised said, of course...

I’ve heard it said that the 70s were more violent both in the UK and the USA. Why do you think that is/was?
I'm not sure I can agree with this: I can't speak for the USA (where the public can bear ARMS according to their main constitutional decree! And where some elements of it [e.g. disaffected kids in schools] seem to like going out on the occasional shooting spree/massacre with them) but on the streets of London there is apparently an unprecedented epidemic of knife-crime today, as was lampooned by that sociological expert President Trump on his recent state visit over here.

Commies, schmommies... Who was it who queried whether the discussion of politics has any place on Lashtal but thought Not? (Oh that's right, it was Shiva!)

NJoy


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X🧿N
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22/06/2019 3:50 am  

Ashram 1,4, The Crown (the ruler) can only be occupied by a Master of the Temple. Says so in the Video!

Yeah, that’s ideal. How long do you think it’ll take to get an 8=3 on the throne … who is first ray and can handle the job?

Ashram 1,4, is similar in outlook to the Book of Codes Chapter II ver. 10.
Liber 718 Ch2 ver10 Masters of the Temple shall oversee the government of provinces; they shall be given their own collection of states to rule. Let all the Adepts heed the word of their Master, and let the Masters heed the word of the Magi, one of whom shall be King. Now let it be understood: the Kingdom shall be governed by the King alone. The governors and magistrates are the instruments of his Will. And, therefore, the Supreme and Heavenly Ruler must be initiated in the most complete sense of the Word. He must be Master of Samadhi, Adept in all branches of Magick and her twin sister Yoga. His position calls for intense wisdom. He must be very God of very God; in no wise let a dog take the throne.

As for an 8=3 ruler maybe it won't be that long of a wait and will be the next US election with Marianne Williamson.

Commies, schmommies… Who was it who queried whether the discussion of politics has any place on Lashtal but thought Not? (Oh that’s right, it was Shiva!)

I've been wondering if it would be alright to post a thread about spirituality, politics, and thelema. The advent of Marianne Williamson in the Democratic Primary brought the subject to discussion on other sites and in private conversation and it's made me curious what Thelemites and Lashtalians in particular might think of the implications of an accomplished spiritual leader taking over the Presidency. Maybe I'll put an OP together and weight whether to post it in Stuff.

Citizen of Glass


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X🧿N
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22/06/2019 3:59 am  

Ashram 1,4, The Crown (the ruler) can only be occupied by a Master of the Temple. Says so in the Video!

Yeah, that’s ideal. How long do you think it’ll take to get an 8=3 on the throne … who is first ray and can handle the job?

Ashram 1,4, is similar in outlook to the Book of Codes Chapter II ver. 10.
Liber 718 Ch2 ver10 Masters of the Temple shall oversee the government of provinces; they shall be given their own collection of states to rule. Let all the Adepts heed the word of their Master, and let the Masters heed the word of the Magi, one of whom shall be King. Now let it be understood: the Kingdom shall be governed by the King alone. The governors and magistrates are the instruments of his Will. And, therefore, the Supreme and Heavenly Ruler must be initiated in the most complete sense of the Word. He must be Master of Samadhi, Adept in all branches of Magick and her twin sister Yoga. His position calls for intense wisdom. He must be very God of very God; in no wise let a dog take the throne.

As for an 8=3 ruler maybe it won't be that long of a wait. What with the next US election in a little over a year and Marianne Williamson.

Commies, schmommies… Who was it who queried whether the discussion of politics has any place on Lashtal but thought Not? (Oh that’s right, it was Shiva!)

I've been wondering if it would be alright to post a thread about spirituality, politics, and thelema. The advent of Marianne Williamson in the Democratic Primary brought the subject to discussion on other sites and in private conversation and it's made me curious what other Thelemites and Lashtalians in particular might think of the implications of an accomplished spiritual leader taking over the Presidency. Maybe I'll put an OP together and weigh whether to post it in Stuff.

Citizen of Glass


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Shiva
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22/06/2019 4:18 am  

j: Who was it who queried whether the discussion of politics has any place on Lashtal but thought Not? (Oh that’s right, it was Shiva!)

I went out of my way to put my previous post in an arena of economics and administration. There may have been some disclosure of how present government works in all systems, but I purposely avoided politics as I knew perfectly well what I said to a person who was taking sides, thus encouraging useless dissent.

I take no side(s). I merely suggest than nothing is going to work out well 'til the ruler of a gang, cult, corporation, city, state, nation, or planet until or unless there's an 8=3 on the hot seat. All Thelemites want their little John or Jane to grow up to be a Magister Templi, don't they?


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dom
 dom
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22/06/2019 12:29 pm  

@jbarter

Do they suddenly undergo an abrupt transformation and immediately become less creepy on the day that they pass their 20th birthday?

Well yeah because they are ...drum roll......a little bit more responsible because they are ...second drum roll...older.


I’ve heard it said that the 70s were more violent both in the UK and the USA. Why do you think that is/was?

I’m not sure I can agree with this: I can’t speak for the USA (where the public can bear ARMS according to their main constitutional decree! And where some elements of it [e.g. disaffected kids in schools] seem to like going out on the occasional shooting spree/massacre with them) but on the streets of London there is apparently an unprecedented epidemic of knife-crime today, as was lampooned by that sociological expert President Trump on his recent state visit over here.

Oh yeah I'll rephrase it, let's leave London out of the equation. That's a special case of recent (last couple of decades recent) silly restrictions on police powers and overall local bad management. I don't think it was the stab-capital of the world in Maggie's day...just since. No, initially in asking Ignant's opinion, I meant the UK in general.

Also you talking about sporadic nut-job teenagers gunning down their bullying classmates is not the sort of violence I'm talking about. See New York pre Giuliani.


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Michael Staley
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MANIO - it's all in the egg
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22/06/2019 12:58 pm  

@dom

Well yeah because they are …drum roll……a little bit more responsible because they are …second drum roll…older.

I don't think there's anything "creepy" about having indulged in cannabis and LSD as a teenager. I did it, and so did most of my friends of the time (late 1960s). You have some strange notions.

As for the 1970s, no I don't think on the whole they were as violent as now.

I don't think that knowledge is something consumed, like a cornish pastie. The difference between being self-taught from books and school/university is that the latter is a directed course of study. For instance, in the early 1980s I taught myself German, and then took the language at A-level in an evening class. I then realised that I was ahead of my peers in some respects, but way behind them in others.

Most economies are mixed economies, in that they combine elements of socialism and capitalism. For instance, many European countries have universal healthcare funded by taxation. Again, few if any countries practice untrammelled capitalism. For instance, may countries have measures to prevent monopolies arising.


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dom
 dom
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22/06/2019 1:27 pm  

I take no side(s). I merely suggest than nothing is going to work out well ’til the ruler of a gang, cult, corporation, city, state, nation, or planet until or unless there’s an 8=3 on the hot seat. All Thelemites want their little John or Jane to grow up to be a Magister Templi, don’t the

I don't talk politics on here either. Politics is for some confused ruach just listening to itself distract itself from the real issues. I put Thelema (and that includes Quabalah) over and above political discussion. Why? Because it is over and above political discussion. Greed (a woolly term anyway) is found on 'the left' and 'the right' and in all walks of existence...


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Michael Staley
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MANIO - it's all in the egg
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22/06/2019 2:23 pm  

@dom

I don’t talk politics on here either

But you do. See your remarks on Socialism, Communism and Capitalism a few posts ago, in response a remark by ignant666.


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dom
 dom
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22/06/2019 5:29 pm  

@mstayley

But you do. See your remarks on Socialism, Communism and Capitalism a few posts ago, in response a remark by ignant666.

Yeah but I never mentioned political parties, never criticised what this or that politician allegedly did or said. I commented on different systems of economic organization and how if Russia was still Soviet you would be hard pressed to find an adolescent who didn't wear flapping flared jeans. I happen to think that capitalism is more of a rational efficient machine than any alternative. Any attempt to reverse it is basically insane.

Here's my political views here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMMqBUK9y1Y

https://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/engccxx.htm


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
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22/06/2019 5:50 pm  

@dom

In practice, most economies partake of both capitalism and socialism. For instance, many European countries have a universal healthcare system funded from taxation, such as the NHS over here. Again, most economies manage the market to a lesser or greater extent, for instance with anti-monopoly legislation. There's health and safety legislation, minimum wage, maternity leave, etc.

It's really not an either/or situation.

Here’s my political views here;

You're welcome to it. There's much that I admire about The Book of the Law, in particular the first chapter, but not the political views that some of its adherents champion, as did Crowley himself.


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Shiva
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22/06/2019 6:08 pm  

My point remains: Nothing will work out properly unless there'a an 8=3 in charge. As in all matters occult and on-display, he or she will be mostly in the background, with properly-attained 7=4s doing the heavy lifting. The problem with tis concept is that it's paradoxical, and rather than poke sticks about who is being "political," I would rather have seen some upstart proclaim, "But that's a paradox!"

Let's pretend that Tiger wrote a poem containing an accusation of paradox. After deciphering the haiku-poem-prose, it would read:

But a Magister
now beyond the world
of form and matter
is no longer Abel
to stand against the Cane

Excuse me, Tiger. I am putting words on your keyboard in order to illustrate a further point ... without disturbing the sensibilities of the aggressive and nitpicking of the censors.

Yes, you are right. That's what I meant about being in the "background." Like V5 was to OM. There's a lot more to this, but under the rule of ten percent, I will not persist, but will return to the commie-anarch father who allows great freedom to his son, while subtly demanding standards with the threat of backyard residence. Some kids would just erect a tent and ignore the grades.

I find nothing in Ignant's report(s) to pick on.

As to a previous comment about parents buying heroin for kids ... creepy (was that the word?)

The allocation of the word "creepy" to a situation in which the allocator has not be placed himself is ... not walking in another's shoes before making a judgment.

Let me be more plane on the plain of Malkuth: My younger brother had a defective (undersized) vertebra at the base of his spine. This produced lifelong pain from an early age. Eventually, the pain became so bad that a doc put him on high doses of oxycontin, the drug promoted as being "non-addictive," and has led to the present opioid crisis, with the pharm company now under the gun.

Then the opioid crisis led to a change in pain med protocols, my brother was deemed to be over-dosing and cut off from his supply of oxy. This was the same act that killed Aleister, according to a news article of the day; see The Beast's Last Curse. So he turned to illegal heroin.

When the SWAT team broke ino his house with flash-bangs and breakage (they were after someone else. I was there watching, circa 2015), the subsequently searched the house and found a small packet of heroin. The sergeant in change had a long discussion with me (about his medical state). Seemingly convinced that my brother was not a dealer, he let him off the hook and the whole nightmare went away.

My brother was earning 3x the income of myself and my wife combined. But every month his entire income would run out a few days before his next pension payment came in (heroin is expensive, but cheaper than illegal oxy). He would appear at my house and request money for heroin.

So now we're standing in that other person's shoes. What to do? My wife and I found this to be inconvenient, especially since he showed up in a state of withdrawal and radiated an unpleasant vibration. There was no problem about getting paid back as I paid his bills from his account, and I always paid myself back as soon as the gravy train rolled in.

I always expressed dissatisfaction with hie requests, but I always gave him $60 to $300, on loan for a few days. Why? Because I wanted him to be happy? No. Because I wanted him pain free? More of less, Yes. Because I wanted to avoid the alternative(s)? Absolutely YES. Why? What was the typical alternative?

On the third day of withdrawal (not because I gave no money, but because there was no substance available) it started with me having to drive him to the emergency room, an hour away, and hanging around for HOURS while they decided to give him a shot of morphine for his back pain.

I expressed such displeasure at his inability to make a slight adjustment and stretch his budget to include continual coverage for pain relief, AND the hospital(s) soon caught on to his true state (withdrawal) and they'd say, "There's nothing we can do for you," that this cenario turned to him calling an ambulance to haul him to the emergency room> But still, "There's nothing we can do for you," reigned ... and I was called by the hospital(s) to pick him up. Ambulance-riding is a one-way trip.

This story gets even worse, what with the total destruction of 7 cars in altercations with concrete walls, houses, and other cars. Happily no one ever died. But let's leave those details unembellished and get back to ...

Why would anyone give a family member money for drugs? Children, brothers, parents?

Sometimes there are factors hidden and unknown.


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dom
 dom
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22/06/2019 6:44 pm  

You’re welcome to it. There’s much that I admire about The Book of the Law, in particular the first chapter, but not the political views that some of its adherents champion, as did Crowley himself.

Well AC gave some of his views on economic management and human happiness in chapter 23 in The Confessions;

It is said, I know not how truly, that a Mexican town, in a corner near the Rio Grande, was, in the course of the revolution and counter- revolution of the contending vultures in 1917, cut off for a time from all communication with the rest of the country. Presumably everyone buried whatever cash he happened to have. At least it vanished rapidly and strangely. The city gasped. What the devil was to be done? Being folk of sense, they soon collected their wits and said: "All right. It's no good crying for the moon. We've got to go on exchanging wealth. We'll simply barter on credit and strike a weekly balance.
"If anyone fancies he's got a soft thing --If we haven't got pesos we've plenty of string."
The result was surprising. Business went on pretty well as in the past, with this remarkable difference: the motive for cheating and hording and gambling was gone. One could, of course, amass a fortune on the balance sheet of the town council; but it would be hard to cash in. So nobody troubled to outwit his neighbour or plot his ruin. They contented themselves with aiming at comfort and ease. Old enemies became fast friends; the usurers turned their hands to productive purposes; the loafers and spongers and gamblers realized that they must work or starve. The whole town prospered; poverty disappeared; financial anxiety ceased to exist; the moral tone of the community became almost angelic. Everyone had plenty to do, plenty to eat, plenty of leisure and plenty of pleasure. Everyone was happy. Of course it was too good to last. Communications were restored and a month later society had relapsed into a dog-fight for dollars.

@shiva

Similarly and in the same chapter AC discusses his admiration for Diaz '33 degree Mason (?) who presumably led Mexico at the time he (AC) lived there. If I'm not mistaken it is this man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porfirio_Díaz


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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22/06/2019 7:06 pm  

An interesting description of a functional anarchist microcosm, david.

If you want to discuss the relationship of Thelema to politics, why not start a thread devoted to that? There have been many over the years though not in quite a while.

That way this thread, the one i started and you revived, can stick to the topic of Thelema and parenting, rather than going off on this tangent caused by my joking response to you asking if i was a "liberal" parent.


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Shiva
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22/06/2019 10:46 pm  

Since I have raised no children, having produced none, I am not in a position of authority to say anything personal. But, as a long-term "uncle" of children raised by Thelemites, and having observed children in a communal setting, I have a concept (the angels brought it to me):

In most descriptions of domestic violence, it is recognized that the abuser was once abused in a similar fashion (sidenote: alcohol is often involved also). There are not a lot of domestic success stories, because they don't contain violence and breaking of the law. From what I know of the lineage and training of several people, to observing them raise their children, I can say that, as a rule of thumb, that people tend to raise their kids in a similar manner to how they themselves were raised, irrespective of Thelemic, Christian, Muslim, Communist, Jewish, or Atheistic status. Other cultures, not named, are applicable.

In short, most parents raise children the same way they were raised, without regard for current philosophical inclinations. Exceptions, of course, may be entertained.


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dom
 dom
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23/06/2019 12:52 am  

A thread devoted to Thelema and politics? I'm a fully paid up member of a trade union and my parents and I have been involved in union disputes. If you can find two or three similar Lashtal members who can claim similar I'll consider it.


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Shiva
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23/06/2019 2:05 am  

d: ... my parents and I have been involved in union disputes.

This statement is entered as evidence in the "raise children the way they were raised" concept, which is presently under non-discussion.


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ignant666
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23/06/2019 2:41 am  

Why do we need a minyan of union members to discuss politics again?

As a union member for 20 years at my last long-term job, i suppose i would qualify to join, but probably better to stick to discussing AC/Thelema here.

Yes, david, college faculty are typically union members in the US- AFL-CIO, baby!

As to Shiva's point: Well, you got your nature, and you got your nurture. My son has been raised in a rather more bohemian fashion than i was, but there are certainly things in common between how i was raised and how my son has been raised. But then i married a woman from a culture with quite different ideas about childrearing, so that led to much that was different to how i was raised.

I am reminded of the old Redd Foxx line "Follow a ugly kid home some time, see if he don't got ugly parents." See also apple, tree.


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Tiger
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23/06/2019 4:08 am  

i’ve heard parents say
why spend so much money on an ivy league school
the professors are just as good if not better
and make the mistake of sending their child to the other school

i work at an ivy league (though just a staff member) and i recommend it’s worth the money
brown university where i work is considered the most liberal school out of the ivy
they are belittled as not having a conservative curriculum
they say thats what makes their students prepared
the 18 year old isn’t shoved down a pipeline
they must find their way and have more than 4 years to figure it out
it’s called an open curriculum

the pipeline and 4 year is also offered

the great thing about the ivy
is not their curriculum

i got accepted into Pratt and RISD took courses in both schools as well T.A. courses
The Art schools have better professors produce better artists
The Brown Art depart produces crap for art
but they have the network into government, wall street, the world bank and the greater world
which has money to spend but has no eye for what is good art and what is bad
the brown art students make more money

All the top notch companies come to recruit here
Presidents of nations, of companies, the cream of the crop come to lecture here
the students can meet them ask questions learn and make contacts

i just need to figure out which one is the on button and which one is the off button, get it right and on time
to get the show rolling ( my job hopefully for longer than the moment )

i come across students who are not the children of the cream of the crop
and make the mistake of saving by living at home
instead of campus which is allowed for locals
it is required to live on campus for the first two years
part of the network process

i recommend the ivy highly

————————————————
the corporation found out there was a mutiny on the bounty
and corrected the/ir mistake .

they pay the human resources department
so you can go to them

you pay the union
but they got the head of the union on their side

at least one would think
thats a secret
the community of sheep
might not suspect

what the 1 % has figured out

——————————
maybe another thread
for the Bakunin
anarchists, political philosophy, Social engineers
————————
can
able
tong
beyond

must
go
rise


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
23/06/2019 5:31 am  

@dom :I agree, there’s something creepy about teens doing weed and acid.

Now I do think your comment is very narrow minded, but I do understand you only have your own limited upbringing, environment and history to make your judgement. Thelemically speaking I can only hope that as you rise up through the grades from beginner on to advanced, you will open up more as you learn.

Dom, I sold acid when I was 14 partook a fair bit too and before you start going "yeah but you are nuts" many many of us did drugs back then, I sold acid to others around my age. This was the 80's after all. I have also smoked weed on pretty much a daily basis since I was 13.

Now my D4 came home to me after her hell with a 420 tattoo on her arm and a habit of weeding. So I did something stunning that if your comment is anything to go by, will shock you. I let her smoke pot when she wanted. I offered her mine, shared, let her sniff the many bags of difference. Every time she would get stoned and have a conniption I would point it out to her and talk to her about it... you know something, it only took six months.... she doesn't smoke weed now and shes still 14.

I did the same to her with alcohol. and what do you know the last bottle of vodka I bought two months ago is still full and so is the rum. me Im allergic to potatoes so vodka and me don't have a great relationship and yuck to rum so they will be sitting there until the cows come home as D2 and S1 do not drink even though they are of age

@shiva All Thelemites want their little John or Jane to grow up to be a Magister Templi, don’t they?

hell no ... I could sprout my DNA theory here but I'll behave and keep it short. S2 is the only one of my tribe that has ever displayed close to my inquisitiveness and thirst "to create a machine to bring unicorns into the real world" and S1 is rocking along moderating and being in charge of his corner of cyberspace Neither of the two or their 4 sisters have burnt a 9 foot diameter circle into the backyard and created a blood ritual with a visiting friend to dedicate themselves to pan/pandora at 14... though that would of made me smile if they had.

Plus really I would prefer my kids to be themselves, the world has one anti christ.. whereas might be nice to have another six truths and justices running around I wouldn't wish that school on an enemy.. let alone my kids. In the words of another famous Mcleod There can be only one.

@shiva This story gets even worse, what with the total destruction of 7 cars in altercations with concrete walls, houses, and other cars. Happily no one ever died. But let’s leave those details unembellished and get back to …

Why would anyone give a family member money for drugs? Children, brothers, parents?

Sometimes there are factors hidden and unknown.

Nods in agreement

@dom A thread devoted to Thelema and politics? I’m a fully paid up member of a trade union and my parents and I have been involved in union disputes. If you can find two or three similar Lashtal members who can claim similar I’ll consider it.

many years a Union delegate, member of labor councils, asked to run for labor party, committee member and president of progress associations, sole administrator of local community groups and a father who crossed TWU picket lines and refused to allow union fees to be taken from his wages.....made for interesting family dinners

BUT

yeah nah to politics threads and politics anywhere near here... as with what ignant said, Im pretty far left but then again I can flip over to right .. and therein lays the problem of world politics PARTY PREFERRED, Government VERSUS opposition and left VERSUS right


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Shiva
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23/06/2019 6:46 am  

m: I could sprout my DNA theory here but I’ll behave and keep it short.

That's okay. Most of us understand the DNA theory. You shall be as you are, and not another. Not one of you shall be lifted up or tossed town. Etc. I apologize for writing "Magister Templi," when Megatron specifies, "Magister Templi or equivalent." They say there's hope and help in other spells, too.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
23/06/2019 7:35 am  

Not one of you shall be lifted up or tossed town.

Not one? None

lifted up tossed down.. sounds very phaeton like

I could say I am lucky that I hold a full deck ..I have grown a lovely set of balls... I call them intestinal fortitude
luck has nothing to do with it and blessings can be curses when you put them in a mirror ..bah Im rattling on about nothing again

That’s okay. Most of us understand the DNA theory

most of you know more than me then....

my DNA theory is more a reincarnation theory of why children are not the parents "heirs" as such and why it took 2000 years for this all to come around again. in other words for the "conditions to be met" I am still fine tuning writing it out .. another fascinating truth

You shall be as you are, and not another.

thank you for that quote.. I say the same thing often.... I am going to pretty that up, make it a meme and post it on facebook .. my answer usually is.. if you are going to make me something I'm not can you make me a unicorn please

calling Crowley megatron is new to you isn't it, I have only heard you say that recently .. another piece of code put together?


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dom
 dom
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23/06/2019 12:44 pm  

@mayet

Thelemically speaking I can only hope that as you rise up through the grades from beginner on to advanced, you will open up more as you learn.

You don't know what "grade" I is/are my son. "Thelemicaly speaking" some of us don't need weed or acid.

Dom, I sold acid when I was 14

……………. so what? You don't shock me. I'm an avid crime channel viewer.

I have also smoked weed on pretty much a daily basis since I was 13.

Was it necessary?

Why?

If you want that relaxed euphoria you could go jogging or do some other sport. If you can't do that you could lift weights and feel spaced out but remain alert whilst enhancing your physical strength. If you want to expand your mind then join in with the housework or the gardening.

I mean a lot of potheads strike me as rebels who are rebelling against something that isn't there. Perhaps it's their father's shadow I dunno. Like Leary said, they're trapped in a little hedonistic sub-culture...….dude.

Now my D4 came home to me after her hell with a 420 tattoo on her arm and a habit of weeding. So I did something stunning that if your comment is anything to go by, will shock you.

Am I the only one around here who doesn't have to google "d4"? Still no joy.

Let's 'ave a look then....

I let her smoke pot when she wanted. I offered her mine, shared, let her sniff the many bags of difference. Every time she would get stoned and have a conniption I would point it out to her and talk to her about it… you know something, it only took six months…. she doesn’t smoke weed now and shes still 14.

So what conclusion are we to draw from this,your response to my earlier comment?


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belmurru
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Posts: 1004
23/06/2019 3:32 pm  

dom -
"Am I the only one around here who doesn’t have to google “d4”? Still no joy."

Context will tell you. I am barely paying attention to this thread, but I can figure out that D=daughter and S=son, and that with 2 sons and 4 daughters Mayet has at least 6 children.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
23/06/2019 4:48 pm  

You don’t know what “grade” I is/are my son.

Well see, I would like to think that gradings are an all around affair. That not only do you raise your frequency by esoteric knowledge, you also work on base skills. This appears to be lacking by the narrow minded "teens creepy" comment and quite a few parts of your last reply. What I am saying I guess is it's all well and good to see the light but to know the light, you have to know the dark it came from.

“Thelemicaly speaking” some of us don’t need weed or acid.

Thelemically speaking I will include myself in your some of us, if that's ok with you. If it's not ok I will still include myself anyway.
What makes you think I NEED weed?
What makes you think I need acid?
Do you feel that your "some of us" statement might be you purposefully separating me / denying me from being part of something?
Do you feel that I am not worthy to being your equal?

because that is what I COULD take from your comments. What you gave in subtext. As I learn every moment of the day, I hope you do too. I hope that in your own growth you reach the place of "seeing things without prejudice" I'm not quite there myself. Mostly I do but I still check myself every moment. I know Im a snot. I know I am an upstart. I know I push boundaries. I know you.

That supposition is totally incorrect BTW. I have one thing I need. Ok there's food and water, Im yet to try to become a breatharian The thought is there to try it though.. every time I try I get hungry though and then I think... hmm am I really hungry or is it habit and I just think I am hungry. No, the only thing I need is warmth. No matter how hard I try to give up that one, Im still addicted to being warm.

……………. so what? You don’t shock me.
See that's the thing, I didn't try to shock you, it wasn't meant to shock you. I would of liked to have you wake up a little and not pass biased judgement. I would of liked you to ask why instead of sprouting a dismissive condescending ".....so what?"

I’m an avid crime channel viewer.
Why?
What is it that has you so absorbed by the crime channel?

That's what interest me. The whys. I could surmise that you have had a great ride in life and by watching the crime channel avidly, that is your way, of deliciously stepping over the tracks to the other side of town without any danger or consequences.

Was it necessary?

yay a question finally.. do you really want the answer?

The short answer is no.

Why?

The long answer is I thought it was necessary at the time to get me through tough times. Most times when I was subjected to abuse akin to being in a war zone, I liked to zone out. Most times I used it to counter balance my over active mind in other words also zone out. Some times I used it to stop me feeling nauseous. Many times I used it to dampen my immune system (also over active)

If you want that relaxed euphoria you could go jogging or do some other sport.

*sigh really?
For a start I am 52 years old, jogging at this age can actually be strenuously damaging on the joints. I wouldn't recommend it. Walking however, which is something I enjoy, is very healthy and is a perfect way to stimulate the body's Ki flow.

If you can’t do that you could lift weights and feel spaced out but remain alert whilst enhancing your physical strength.

Once again you are not talking down to a millennial lifting weights is undue strain on the older body. A series of exercises using the body's strength against itself is much more beneficial to alertness and physical strength.
1, lifting weights does not make you feel spaced out. it does however give you an endorphin rush.
2, I hope you understood my why's above and comprehend that the whole idea was not remaining alert.
3, my physical strength while not perfect is above satisfactory.

If you want to expand your mind then join in with the housework or the gardening.

really Dom... really?
that comment alone is more mind numbing than housework. My idea is to get the housework over and done with as early as possible so I can get back to expanding my mind and learning. Gardening, would be nice if I had my own garden again. There was a time I had over 100 different medical herbs growing for which I created tinctures for various ailments with some awesome successes. One I created for arthritis had a wonderful side affect of clearing all the gunk off the lungs. I have also learned recently that standing in the position of NUIT while coughing has the same affect and helps with asthma. Recent breakthroughs in my alchemical work has given me knowledge on how to cure infections easily.

I mean a lot of potheads strike me as rebels who are rebelling against something that isn’t there.
What? In the words of Pauline.. please explain your reasoning

Perhaps it’s their father’s shadow I dunno.
what? again please explain .. and I mean that.. please do..

you don't know many people that smoke weed do you. Im still not sure what daddy and his shadow have to do with it
potheads simply wish to be in that I dont give a phuck about anything mode.

Like Leary said, they’re trapped in a little hedonistic sub-culture…….dude.

you've been watching too much big lebowski Leary said that in what year 1960? when it was actually a sub culture.. I got news for you dude... smoking pot is now a bona fide culture, nothing sub culture about it. Within a few years even us antipodeans will legally be able to to obtain
unlike you sitting there with "book knowledge" of what Leary said I actually learned from experience. A pathway to knowledge that I took which I felt would give me a better understanding of life. it doesnt make me better or worse than you... it makes me different from you.

Am I the only one around here who doesn’t have to google “d4”? Still no joy.
you probably are the only one... commonsense and logic might of helped had you used it. Lets see if there was s's and d's I said he for both the S's D the d was for the she and we were talking children of thelemites .. I have said before I have six children 2 sons 4 daughters.

So what conclusion are we to draw from this,your response to my earlier comment?

"we" ?? I certainly hope you draw your own, so that should of said "what conclusion am I to draw" and let others speak for themselves.
I will spell it out for you seeing as you don't seem willing or able to see what is in front of you .. but then that may be me over estimating your abilities and knowledge.

by removing the rebellious mystique and taking away the I am doing something I shouldnt AKA the taboo... and at the same time educating on the effects as they happen, I firstly showed her that she could make her own choices, that choices had consequences, and that she only wanted them because she couldn't have them. In other words my many years as a pothead learned me a thing or two.

Is it your nature to be condescending to all who are different from you Dom? is it because I am another aussie stepping into your domain? Is it because I am a woman?

you dont have to answer to me.. but you do have to answer to yourself.....

thank you for inspiring me to upload some more of my old work to publish please read.
Judgement By Mayet


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Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1228
24/06/2019 2:43 pm  

LAShTAL is becoming very busy these days, it seems: having gone away at the weekend I return to find a veritable cornucopia of postings --- it hasn't been like this for about the last 4 or 5 years (or since before the last major redesign of the website from when we still had the 'Preview', 'Unread Posts' [would have been highly useful here!] and several other valuable functions amongst others)...

@Shiva :

I went out of my way to put my previous post in an area of economics and administration.
Though "Administration" is just another way of saying Government --- e.g. as in, 'There was an increase in Cold War hostilities during the period of the Reagan administration' --- and the subject of 'economics' was not always called that; up until the end of the 19th century it was in fact known as the study of 'political economy'. Fact! [MY itals].

I merely suggest than nothing is going to work out well ’til the ruler of a gang, cult, corporation, city, state, nation, or planet until or unless there’s an 8=3 [or equivalent] on the hot seat […] My point remains. Nothing will work out properly unless there's an 8=3 [or equivalent] in charge.
The Tao Teh Chinghas a lot to similar things to say about the best forms of rulership, and particularly Crowley's own version of it containing his particular invaluable annotations (previously available until suppression by the (c)OTO in Marcelo Motta's "Equinox" [sub-titled The Chinese Texts of Magick & Mysticism] Vo 5 No.3)

All Thelemites want their little John or Jane to grow up to be a Magister Templi, don't they?
No, they want them to discover and follow their true will (do that & and no other shall naysay) which may or may not involve them becoming an MT/8=3 in that particular incarnation.
Returning to the OT, I tried to raise my two children as far as possible in accordance with Reichian (=the prevention of the build-up or accretion of 'character armour' otherwise known as complexes/folds in the veils of the personality/khu) principles rather than those of Crowleyan (=smoke yourself silly) childrearing. Although not inimical towards Crowley (and he uses the Thoth Tarot) my son is at present more attracted to the writings of Stuart Wilde, and my daughter also has wide interests but no one in particular at the moment. It's curious who the next generation finds to 'rebel' against what with A.C. being regarded in some quarters as the 'the ultimate bad boy'; a bit like the offspring of punk musicians choosing to become accountants I suppose, or purveyors of 'easy listening'!

'Cat's in the cradle' &c &c,
N Joy


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dom
 dom
(@dom)
Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 1602
24/06/2019 11:16 pm  

@mayet

See that’s the thing, I didn’t try to shock you, it wasn’t meant to shock you.

Eh? You implied that I would be shocked by your behaviour/statement. I wasn't. Just sayin'.

What is it that has you so absorbed by the crime channel?
That’s what interest me. The whys. I could surmise that you have had a great ride in life and by watching the crime channel avidly, that is your way, of deliciously stepping over the tracks to the other side of town without any danger or consequences.

No, it's an example of my shockability level. No big unbalanced fascination with the crime channel, I just used that as an example. I could've used ten other examples but that one sufficed.

"Other side of town"? Eh? A lot of crimes are committed by wealthy idiots also.

The long answer is I thought it was necessary at the time to get me through tough times

…………………...

Within a few years even us antipodeans will legally be able to to obtain

Eh? I've never set foot in Australia.

Is it your nature to be condescending to all who are different from you Dom? is it because I am another aussie stepping into your domain? Is it because I am a woman?

Eh? I thought you were a man!

I've never set foot in Australia.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
25/06/2019 12:50 am  

I saw your user pic and presumed you were also Australian which is my bad I apologize

yes I am a woman who has stepped away from the kitchen into the unknown search for knowledge

to add to that ..I see the journey of a man on the path to be somewhat easier than a woman


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Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1374
25/06/2019 1:17 am  

food clothing safety
A curse is a blessing
A blessing is a curse

easy don’t make you hard

Women are the future


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