Dwtw
The purpose of this thread is to explore the implications of the ‘absence’ of the Egyptian god Montu (aka Mentu, Mont, Month), from the text of Liber AL vel Legis.
Both the text of Liber AL and the historical record show that the ancient Egyptian priest named Ankh-af-na-khonsu (AANK), whose burial stele was a catalyst for the Cairo Working in 1904, was a priest of Montu. He thrived in the period around the late 25th and early 26th Dynasties of Egypt, in the city of Thebes. AANK is identified as the scribe of Liber AL, and Crowley alluded that he was the reincarnation of this priest.
And yet, surprisingly, Liber AL makes almost no mention of Montu. The man who was a priest of Montu, who was in essence responsible for the writing of Liber AL, in effect transmits the words of a trinity of gods, none of which he was ‘officially’ representing. There are images of this trinity on the burial stele of AANK, but those same images can be found on a number of stele from the period.
So the main question is: why didn’t these gods choose ‘one of their own’ to transmit their message? Or put another way, why doesn’t the transmission found in Liber AL focus at least one of the chapters on the god Montu, who was attended to by Ankh-af-na-khonsu?
The name of Montu appears twice in Liber AL, in the (in)famous versification of the hieroglyphs found on the stele of AANK:
Vv. 3:37-38
I am the Lord of Thebes, and I
The inspired forth-speaker of Mentu;
For me unveils the veiled sky,
The self-slain Ankh-af-na-khonsu
…
I am thy Theban, O Mentu,
The prophet Ankh-af-na-khonsu!
No other mention is made of Mentu in Liber AL.
The following are the other appearances of the name of the scribe in Liber AL, one from the other section of ‘versification’, and the last that definitively says AANK is the scribe.
1:14 The winged globe, the starry blue, Are mine, O Ankh-af-na-khonsu!
1:36 My scribe Ankh-af-na-khonsu, the priest of the princes, shall not in one letter change this book; but lest there be folly, he shall comment thereupon by the wisdom of Ra-Hoor-Khuit.
Litllwtw
Omega Logion
Dwtw
The following is my working hypothesis on the absence of Montu from Liber AL.
The first clue is the name of the scribe itself. Ankh-af-na-khonsu can be translated as “he lives for Khonsu”. At the time that AANK lived, Khonsu was the god of the Moon, a member of the ‘Theban Triad’ of Mut-Amun-Khonsu, who were the Mother, Father and Son respectively. So, AANK lived in Thebes, where the ‘Holy Family’ included a god which is part of the scribe’s name.
Khonsu was not the literal offspring of Maut and Amun; he was their ‘adopted’ son. Before Khonsu was adopted, the son of Maut was in fact the god Montu.
In his book “Deciphering the Proto-Sinaitic Script”, author Paul D. LeBlanc offers the opinion that the changeover from Montu to Khonsu as the son of Maut involved the crescent-shaped lake called Isheru that was part of the Maut temple complex in Thebes. It was because of this shift in roles that Khonsu is not only depicted as a mummiform human boy with a lunar crescent, but also as a hawk-headed human with the same lunar crescent. This hawk-headed form is typical of the god Montu.
Montu himself is a war god, in the form of a falcon. The later Greeks identified him with Ares, the Roman Mars.
https://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/montu/
Montu is one of the oldest gods of the Egyptian pantheon, and like most of them, his symbolism evolved over time, but he remained primarily a war god, and associated with the pharaoh as a strong ruler and conqueror. Four successive pharaohs of the 11th dynasty include his name in theirs – Mentuhotep, for ‘Montu is satisfied’. These pharaohs were successful in war and reunited Egypt after the First Intermediate Period. The reunification under Mentuhotep II began the Middle Kingdom period.
Chapter 3 of Liber AL is supposedly spoken by the god Ra-Hoor-Khuit (RHK), or in modern parlance Re-Horakhty, whose name means ‘Ra-Horus of the Two Horizons’. Many of the passages in this chapter refer to war; indeed, the first letters of the first five lines of the holograph page of chapter 3 are A-T-W-A-R.
RHK starts off by setting the record straight:
3. Now let it be first understood that I am a god of War and of Vengeance. I shall deal hardly with them.
He continues in this vein throughout the chapter, with a few digressions:
4. Choose ye an island!
5. Fortify it!
6. Dung it about with enginery of war!
7. I will give you a war-engine.
8. With it ye shall smite the peoples; and none shall stand before you.
9. Lurk! Withdraw! Upon them! this is the Law of the Battle of Conquest: thus shall my worship be about my secret house.
11… Worship me with fire & blood; worship me with swords & with spears. Let the woman be girt with a sword before me: let blood flow to my name. Trample down the Heathen; be upon them, o warrior, I will give you of their flesh to eat!
28. Also ye shall be strong in war.
46. I am the warrior Lord of the Forties: the Eighties cower before me, & are abased. I will bring you to victory & joy: I will be at your arms in battle & ye shall delight to slay.
51. With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross.
52. I flap my wings in the face of Mohammed & blind him.
53. With my claws I tear out the flesh of the Indian and the Buddhist, Mongol and Din.
57. Despise also all cowards; professional soldiers who dare not fight, but play; all fools despise!
All of this is well known. The only problem is, Re-Horakhty is NOT a war-god. Looking through all the ancient Egyptian literature, you would be hard-pressed to find any mention of RHK in connection with war, and certainly not to the extent found in chapter 3 of Liber AL. Of course, Horus was the avenger of his father Osiris, and fought battles with Set, but in the particular form of RHK, there's little to no evidence that he was a god of war specifically.
On the other hand, there are plenty of references to Montu as a war-god. And my thesis is that Chapter 3 is not actually spoken by Re-Horakhty, but by Montu, the god worshipped by the scribe Ankh-af-na-khonsu.
One piece of direct evidence is found at the very beginning of the book. One of the epithets of Montu is “Lord of Thebes”. And in chapter 1, verse 5 (a number associated with Mars), we find this exhortation:
5. Help me, o warrior lord of Thebes, in my unveiling before the Children of men!
6. Be thou Hadit, my secret centre, my heart & my tongue!
Crowley noted in his Old and New Comment that this referred to him as the scribe AANK
(OC) “Nu, to unveil herself, needs a mortal intermediary, in the first instance. It is to be supposed that Ankh-f-n-khonsu, the warrior lord of Thebes, priest of Men Tu, is in some subtle manner identical with either Aiwass or the Beast.”
(NC) “In addressing me as warrior lord of Thebes, it appears as if She perceived a certain continuity or identity of myself with Ankh-f-n-khonsu, whose Stele is the Link with Antiquity of this Revelation.”
On one level, it could be interpreted that this verse is asking for the help of the scribe, Crowley, to write down the revelation. And that in turn he is given this epithet because he is the reincarnation, or at least the physical vehicle, of the ancient priest AANK, who is identified on the Stele as being the 'Lord of Waset (Thebes)'.
But the problem is that there is NO reason to think of AANK as a ‘warrior lord’. He was a priest. There is plenty of reason to think that this ‘warrior lord of Thebes’ is none other than Montu himself. And the speaker of verse 5 (Nuit) is asking Montu to help proclaim the revelation. In this role, he is asked to be the Hadit, referring to the Behutet, which name means the ‘winged disk’ of the sun, symbolized by Horus of Edfu, who was later identified with Re-Horakhty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winged_sun
In essence, Nuit asks Montu to take on the form of the Hadit/Behdety, which he proceeds to do in the particular form of Ra-Hoor-Khuit. And thus, the third chapter becomes the voice of Montu, the war-god, worshipped in antiquity by the scribe Anka-af-na-khonsu.
Litllwtw
O.L.
Thanks for addressing this issue....I think it was in one of your other threads or recent posts (in the last few months) where this was brought up...so the follow up is welcome!
All of this is well known. The only problem is, Re-Horakhty is NOT a war-god.
Ra-Hor-Akhty is a compound god name that expresses the sun as the god Ra, and utilizes Horus as a god of strength and war, as suggested by the falcon in its function as a bird of prey.
Chapter 3 is not actually spoken by Re-Horakhty, but by Montu, the god worshipped by the scribe Ankh-af-na-khonsu.
Ra-Hoor-Khut and Ra-Hoor-Khuit are provided as the names of the god of chapter three, in the first two verses.
All of this is well known. The only problem is, Re-Horakhty is NOT a war-god.
Ra-Hor-Akhty is a compound god name that expresses the sun as the god Ra, and utilizes Horus as a god of strength and war, as suggested by the falcon in its function as a bird of prey.
Dwtw
In general, the falcon represented Horus as a sky god, and the name Horus is related to 'above' or 'upon' and in turn the 'divine kingship' of the pharaoh. This was not simply based on its being a bird of prey, although the falcon was associated with protection of the pharaoh from the earliest times. See:
https://harvardartmuseums.org/collections/object/312253
http://guardians.net/hawass/horus.htm
As I noted, Re-Horakhty refers to Ra-Horus of the Horizons. What does that netjer have to do with war? I'm not referring simply to Horus, but this syncretic form of RHK.
Chapter 3 is not actually spoken by Re-Horakhty, but by Montu, the god worshipped by the scribe Ankh-af-na-khonsu.
Ra-Hoor-Khut and Ra-Hoor-Khuit are provided as the names of the god of chapter three, in the first two verses.
That begs the question. Of course those are the given names of the speaker of chapter 3. The question is whether they are a mask for the actual war-god, who is Montu. I would be interested to see any reputable sources that claim RHK is a war-god.
Litllwtw
O.L.
Iunit, consort of Montu!
That begs the question.
Not really, given the use of a god name within a verse could constitute evidence that particular god is the speaker of the verse. The name of the god that each chapter of TBOTL belongs to, is the last word/name in the first verse of each chapter: that's not circular reasoning, it's a linear pattern.
I would be interested to see any reputable sources that claim RHK is a war-god.
if the ritual be not ever unto me: then expect the direful judgments of Ra Hoor Khuit!
Thou shalt have danger & trouble. Ra-Hoor-Khu is with thee. Worship me with fire & blood; worship me with swords & with spears. Let the woman be girt with a sword before me: let blood flow to my name.
But the problem is that there is NO reason to think of AANK as a ‘warrior lord’.
From the Gardiner translation of the stele text:
Osiris, the Priest of Montu, Lord of Thebes, Opener of the doors of Nut in Karnak, Ankh-f-na-Khonsu, the Justified.
Saith Osiris, the Priest of Montu, Lord of Thebes, Ankh-f-na-Khonsu, the Justified:
It's not a stretch to think the priest of Montu, Lord of Thebes, would also be considered a warrior lord of Thebes given his devotion to the god Montu.
I would be interested to see any reputable sources that claim RHK is a war-god.
if the ritual be not ever unto me: then expect the direful judgments of Ra Hoor Khuit!
Thou shalt have danger & trouble. Ra-Hoor-Khu is with thee. Worship me with fire & blood; worship me with swords & with spears. Let the woman be girt with a sword before me: let blood flow to my name.
I think Threefold was asking for sources outside of AL?
It was brought up a while ago in a different thread that ancient Egyptian religion was not static, it changed over the centuries, and different deities' cults merged with others, and in some cases the deities themselves were merged. Montu's cult blended with those of Horus and of Set at times, and had a connection with Khonsu as well, both having been considered son of Amun at different times. I admit I'm not exactly sure what the situation was in AANK's time,though.
It's not a stretch to think the priest of Montu, Lord of Thebes, would also be considered a warrior lord of Thebes given his devotion to the god Montu.
But there is a difference between a warrior lord, and a lord who is a priest of a warrior god.
In his book “Deciphering the Proto-Sinaitic Script”, author Paul D. LeBlanc offers the opinion that the changeover from Montu to Khonsu as the son of Maut involved the crescent-shaped lake called Isheru that was part of the Maut temple complex in Thebes. It was because of this shift in roles that Khonsu is not only depicted as a mummiform human boy with a lunar crescent, but also as a hawk-headed human with the same lunar crescent. This hawk-headed form is typical of the god Montu.
I downloaded the book on the internet from Academia website. If you would can you give me the chapter and page that refers to the Proto-Sinaitic alphabet having changed the roles of Montu and Khonsu? I also recommend, if you are interested "The Proto-Sinaitic Inscriptions and their Decipherment by William Fox Albright, 1969. (Cited by LeBlanc in his footnotes.) Is it possible that the Canaanite religion could be the Link in the interpretation of Montu to Khonsu? Is it a religion-localized cult phenomenon, or is it linguistic?
But there is a difference between a warrior lord, and a lord who is a priest of a warrior god.
This is why Ancient Egyptian semantics can be so difficult. Assessing meaning in words are highly variable given their context and the slightest change in syntax will change the meaning completely. Okay, I am no expert at this, just an interested amateur. Can we safely assume that a Priest of a Warrior god is the living embodiment of a Warrior god?
I think Threefold was asking for sources outside of AL?
He is, but I thought it even better to demonstrate some internal evidence.
It was brought up a while ago in a different thread that ancient Egyptian religion was not static, it changed over the centuries, and different deities' cults merged with others, and in some cases the deities themselves were merged.
Such as in the combining of the sun god Ra with the war god Horus.
Montu's cult blended with those of Horus and of Set at times, and had a connection with Khonsu as well, both having been considered son of Amun at different times.
The fact that so many gods were depicted as falcons demonstrates how fluid the imagery was.
I admit I'm not exactly sure what the situation was in AANK's time,though.
Thebes was about 20 miles from Karnak. We know AANK was employed by the temple of Khonsu at Karnak based on the graffiti he left there, and based on the stele inscriptions he was employed by one or more of the Montu temples, probably the one in Thebes, but there were at least three in the area. Montu was well-established as a cult figure, which makes O.L.'s theory interesting, but problematic. If Montu were that important, why is he not depicted on the Stele of R.? Likewise with the lack of all but possibly one references to him in Liber Legis.
But there is a difference between a warrior lord, and a lord who is a priest of a warrior god.
Maybe not. I suspect the Golden Dawn concept of assuming god forms was taken from the ancient Egyptians. If one were to summon a god using magick, one would become that god, as in the case of Ankh-af-na-khonsu, who is addressed as the wsir, "the Osiris," in the inscriptions on his stele, having become the god Osiris. I can certainly see a priest of Montu becoming the war god himself through magical rites.
He is, but I thought it even better to demonstrate some internal evidence.
But he was looking for historical sources outside of AL in order to better understand Montu's position in AL.
Such as in the combining of the sun god Ra with the war god Horus.
The fact that so many gods were depicted as falcons demonstrates how fluid the imagery was.
Exactly.
Montu was well-established as a cult figure, which makes O.L.'s theory interesting, but problematic. If Montu were that important, why is he not depicted on the Stele of R.? Likewise with the lack of all but possibly one references to him in Liber Legis.
Which makes me want more precise information on the status of Montu's cult during that period in relation to the cults that it blended with, ie Horus's and Set's. Am I wrong or was Montu's cult in a period of decline around then?
Maybe not. I suspect the Golden Dawn concept of assuming god forms was taken from the ancient Egyptians. If one were to summon a god using magick, one would become that god, as in the case of Ankh-af-na-khonsu, who is addressed as the wsir, "the Osiris," in the inscriptions on his stele, having become the god Osiris. I can certainly see a priest of Montu becoming the war god himself through magical rites.
I am more than aware of invocatory rites, and have performed such things myself. I was thinking more of AANK having that title full time, in life.
That begs the question.
Not really, given the use of a god name within a verse could constitute evidence that particular god is the speaker of the verse. The name of the god that each chapter of TBOTL belongs to, is the last word/name in the first verse of each chapter: that's not circular reasoning, it's a linear pattern.
Dwtw
I'm aware of the names that are given in the text of the chapters. My hypothesis is that in the case of RHK, this name is a cover for Montu, because he continually uses references to war that are out of character for Re-Horakhty, and seem more closely related to Montu. And as @katrice said, I'm looking for sources outside of Liber AL.
Litllwtw
O.L.
I downloaded the book on the internet from Academia website. If you would can you give me the chapter and page that refers to the Proto-Sinaitic alphabet having changed the roles of Montu and Khonsu? I also recommend, if you are interested "The Proto-Sinaitic Inscriptions and their Decipherment by William Fox Albright, 1969. (Cited by LeBlanc in his footnotes.) Is it possible that the Canaanite religion could be the Link in the interpretation of Montu to Khonsu? Is it a religion-localized cult phenomenon, or is it linguistic?
Dwtw
p. 243 has a caption with the reference, and images of Khonsu as falcon and child.
I still haven't finished the LeBlanc, so I'm not sure of his complete position on the switch.
Haven't read Albright yet, but am looking forward to it.
Litllwtw
O.L.
p. 243 has a caption with the reference, and images of Khonsu as falcon and child.
Thank you. Unfortunately, the Academic website only provided a redacted version of the book, Deciphering the Proto-Sinaitic Script. However, there are plenty of other references to the Proto-Sinaitic script that depict the iconography of Horus, (HERU) Montu, Khonsu. If I can find a reasonably priced used copy of the book, I am tempted to order it as the full text isn't available online.
I think you will thoroughly enjoy the Albright work. Briefly, the Proto-Sinaitic alphabet was discovered by E.H. Palmer in 1869. However, it wasn't until 1905 when the legendary Egyptologist, Flinders Petrie discovered a stele written in eccentric hieroglyphs that resembled conventional Egyptian writing, but with peculiar acrophonic symbols. Another legend of Egyptology, Gardiner the translator of the hieroglyphics made further discoveries in the structure of the world's first true alphabetic system. As any aspiring magician will tell you, the words are the object, and to speak a word, is to make it a reality. As Crowley proved time and again, words have transformative power. (Especially as it relates to this topic).
As any aspiring magician will tell you, the words are the object
Aspiring magicians may think this is the case, but not one of them has told me this is true.
Accomplished magicians know that one can run their larynx all day long, spouting holy words and mystical phrases ... that don't come true.
Why is this?
Oh, it's a common thing, really, dealing with mix-ups, wishful thinking, wishful uttering, and ignorance. It's called ...
Confusing the Planes
... and to speak a word, is to make it a reality.
But it doesn't work out that way in daily reality, does it?
Crowley proved time and again, words have transformative power.
Please cite one or three example of this "proof."
----------------
Returning from expositions of pseudo-magic to the thread, Wikipedia (the world's most trusted source of infinite dats) tells us that ...
"When linked with Horus, Montu's epithet was "Horus of the Strong Arm".
Please cite one or three example of this "proof."
Isn't uttering the barbarous names of invocation a fairly basic teaching in his Magick in theory & Practice? Didn't the written words of the Stele of Revealing open up his wife Rose to be a conduit of Aiwass?
But it doesn't work out that way in daily reality, does it?
You are right, generally it doesn't.
Oh, it's a common thing, really, dealing with mix-ups, wishful thinking, wishful uttering, and ignorance. It's called ...
Looks like I am back in the woodshed again.
Didn't the written words of the Stele of Revealing open up his wife Rose to be a conduit of Aiwass?
As the "Reception story" goes, Ouarda the Seer, recognized the Stele, not by its inscriptions, but upon a greater totality when she came upon it while touring the museum...
Accomplished magicians know that one can run their larynx all day long, spouting holy words and mystical phrases ... that don't come true.
Is that a sign of an accomplished "magician"....that the mojo loses its power?
As the "Reception story" goes, Ouarda the Seer, recognized the Stele, not by its inscriptions, but upon a greater totality when she came upon it while touring the museum...
Admittingly I was grasping for straws to defend an indefensible position. But you are correct. Purely anecdotal, I visited te Cairo Museum back in 1991 before the grand new museum was built. I saw lots of steles, but unfortunately, not the Stele of Revealing. But I was aware that it was there.
Thebes was about 20 miles from Karnak. We know AANK was employed by the temple of Khonsu at Karnak based on the graffiti he left there, and based on the stele inscriptions he was employed by one or more of the Montu temples, probably the one in Thebes, but there were at least three in the area. Montu was well-established as a cult figure, which makes O.L.'s theory interesting, but problematic. If Montu were that important, why is he not depicted on the Stele of R.? Likewise with the lack of all but possibly one references to him in Liber Legis.
Dwtw
I believe the Stele of Revelation uses the typical iconography of its time, with the deceased ("the Osiris") addressing Re-Horakhte. So it's not unusual that AANK is not addressing Montu. Nevertheless, he WAS a priest of Montu (apparently a Stolist, one who dresses the statue of the god, a role co-opted by the Golden Dawn in their rituals, which use the Stolist and the Dadouchos to purify by Water and Fire, respectively).
The verbiage on the Stele is fairly typical of burial stele, quoting chapters of the Book of the Dead, so its not surprising that there are no direct appeals to Montu, just a recognition that AANK was a priest of that god.
As for why Montu is not mentioned more in Liber Legis, that is exactly my question. His only mention is just taken from the Stele inscription. But here you have a man who devoted his life to this god, and supposedly centuries later he opens up a magical 'current' that has nothing to do with Montu? That seems odd.
It would be very informative to know what the other stelae found in the cache with AANK looked like, since they seem to have been a group of priests of Montu buried together.
Litllwtw
O.L.
Isn't uttering the barbarous names of invocation a fairly basic teaching in his Magick in theory & Practice?
But simply reciting the words without anything else isn't enough. Otherwise, anyone could conjure the Goetia or attain the K&C just by saying the words.
Is that a sign of an accomplished "magician"....that the mojo loses its power?
Maybe not but I'd say that the more advanced the magician, the less need to actively use magick.
So does anyone have any insights in to the state of Montu's cult during AANK's time, and which other deities' cults may have been blended with it then? I've sent out some questions but haven't heard back from anyone yet.
How were Montu and Re-Horakhty viewed in Crowley's time? That may have a role in this too.
Isn't uttering the barbarous names of invocation a fairly basic teaching in his Magick in theory & Practice?
But simply reciting the words without anything else isn't enough. Otherwise, anyone could conjure the Goetia or attain the K&C just by saying the words.
Is that a sign of an accomplished "magician"....that the mojo loses its power?
Maybe not but I'd say that the more advanced the magician, the less need to actively use magick.
So does anyone have any insights in to the state of Montu's cult during AANK's time, and which other deities' cults may have been blended with it then? I've sent out some questions but haven't heard back from anyone yet.
How were Montu and Re-Horakhty viewed in Crowley's time? That may have a role in this too.
The only thing I can suggest is reviewing the Third Part of The Confessions ed. by John Symonds: The Advent of the Aeon of Horus. Or, check out the website Tour Egypt: Egypt: Montu, Solar and Warrior god.
But simply reciting the words without anything else isn't enough. Otherwise, anyone could conjure the Goetia or attain the K&C just by saying the words.
That reminds me of a Shakespearian quotation:
Glendower; "I can call spirits from the vasty deep"
Hotspur: "Why so can I, so can any man. But will they come when you call them?"
Isn't uttering the barbarous names of invocation a fairly basic teaching in his Magick in theory & Practice?
Why, yes, the same book in which he wrote "being that may or not be real" (paraphrased).
Didn't the written words of the Stele of Revealing open up his wife Rose to be a conduit of Aiwass?
Maybe. This is all controversial and discussed to lenhth in other threads.
I was asking for "proof," not anecdotes.
Looks like I am back in the woodshed again.
While you're there, chopping water, consider that the "words" must be uttered or intoned at a high level of consciousness.
Imagine a world where everything comes true that anyone mumbles.
Is that a sign of an accomplished "magician"....that the mojo loses its power?
No. It was a comparison of accomplished to aspiring. Aspirants think all sorts of things. Accomplished (i.e., mature, experienced, or skilled) magicians keep to the ascending staircase, ladder, or mountain trail - their mojo never loses power. But it does transform into the next level, which causes onlookers to exclaim ...
WTF? I think he has fallen!
But Montu, or Horus, or Re-Herakhty has lifted him up to the next level.
The only thing I can suggest is reviewing the Third Part of The Confessions ed. by John Symonds: The Advent of the Aeon of Horus. Or, check out the website Tour Egypt: Egypt: Montu, Solar and Warrior god.
When examining received material, always take in to account that the form that the transmission takes is filtered through the consciousness of the receiver.
As for why Montu is not mentioned more in Liber Legis, that is exactly my question. His only mention is just taken from the Stele inscription. But here you have a man who devoted his life to this god, and supposedly centuries later he opens up a magical 'current' that has nothing to do with Montu?
If Mentu were an added dimension of Ra-Hoor-Khuit, it would solve all of the issues. I have it covered:
MENTU = 37 = THEBAN = BATTLE
RA-HOOR-KHUIT = 79 = GOD OF WAR
KHU = 37 = MENTU
RA-HOOR-KHU = 70 = RA-HOOR-MENTU = THE DIREFUL
MENTU = 37 = THEBAN = BATTLE
KHU = 37 = MENTU
Thanks for adding some numerical equivalences from your system...And thus the Khabs being in the Khu, and where the Khu is now found to be equivalent to "battle", then....
Imagine a world where everything comes true that anyone mumbles.
That was the fate of the Krell in the movie Forbidden planet. While I am in the woodshed, I think I will have a session with the Krell Plastic Educator, and raise my I.Q. to equal yours..
The only thing I can suggest is reviewing the Third Part of The Confessions ed. by John Symonds: The Advent of the Aeon of Horus. Or, check out the website Tour Egypt: Egypt: Montu, Solar and Warrior god.
When examining received material, always take in to account that the form that the transmission takes is filtered through the consciousness of the receiver.
Intriguing, but what does it mean? "Being filtered through the consciousness."?
I was asking for "proof," not anecdotes.
When you consider it, EVERYTHING Mr. Crowley wrote was anecdotal. You have to take his word for it that certain things happened. He offers no "proof" of anything.
raise my I.Q. to equal yours..
But yours is already much higher than mine. I used to have a rather high IQ, but then I gave it up in favor of being Farter Shiva, who prefers words of one syllable and sentences that make sense while revealing deeper mysteries.
I would tell you the truth about this QBL stuff mixed up with temporary amalgamations of various entities like Re-Hera, Ra-Hoor, Mont-Hru, Ra-Montu, but your qotient isn't low enough yet to receive the Truth.
The Truth also involves the fact that Liberation us found in the lower brainwaves frequencies [preferably 4.0 Hz and lower], while mental calculations, especially mathematics, are prone to filling up the higher frequencies.
I see no escape from this madhouse except stopping the mind. Yeah, that'll do it. People say it can't be done. This is true, if one is thinking along the lines of "permanency." The permanent "blowing out" is a Ketherian thing, not fit to discuss in mental company.
It's more a matter of blowing out a relightable lamp. It is only necessary to blow out temporarily - not worrying about one's mind that has a self-restarting program. It's a simple practice that is the central key to all other considerations. Surely, you've seen it done ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFFMtq5g8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFFMtq5g8N4 N4
Anyway, after my brain re-started, I looked at the title of this thread, Where is Montu in AL?, opened up AL.rtf, selected "Find," entered "Montu," hit the go-bot, and NOTHING came up.
This is, of course, the only sane answer to any inquiry, but in the case of Montu, the answer is that Montu is not in AL. By shortening the search term to mont, one gets "monthly," as in blood of the moon ... but that's a disconnect.
Intriguing, but what does it mean? "Being filtered through the consciousness."?
This is a basic rule in "channeling" or "transmitting." The message will always be expressed in terms that the channel is already familiar with.
That is, the words and concepts expressed are limited (filtered) by the contents of the mind.
Thus Crowley brings us an encyclopedia that he has arranged in terms of The Bible, The Golden Dawn, Freemasonry, Semi-accurate Egyptology, Hebrew Numerology, and Bisexuality, with token code-words adopted from the Muslim camp. He deviates into Hindu Yoga and Chinese Wu-wei, but rarely cites these lineages when he is laying down the Law.
When you consider it, EVERYTHING Mr. Crowley wrote was anecdotal. You have to take his word for it that certain things happened. He offers no "proof" of anything.
Disagreement is buzzing from the buzzard up there in the aire.
This statement is so outageous, coming out of the woodshed no less, that I will STOP wasting my time and get to water chopping ...
@shiva You have proven yet again that I don't know shit from Shinola! I won't talk, I'll just listen for once.
shit from Shinola!
The Supreme and Antediluvian Order, called S.'.S.'., involves but one discrimination: On one side of the Scales of Maat, attended by her boyfriend Thoth who takes notes, is Nothing. On the other side is Everything.
Everything is BS; all of it, except ... the other side that shines with the luminescence of Shinola's lack of attachment.
So does anyone have any insights in to the state of Montu's cult during AANK's time, and which other deities' cults may have been blended with it then? I've sent out some questions but haven't heard back from anyone yet.
Dwtw
This site notes three lectures given on the subject back in 2013:
https://www.orient-mediterranee.com/spip.php?article1368&lang=fr
"The Crown Prince Osorkon endowed the cult of Montu. The temple of Montu at Karnak North was renewed by Taharqa. About one-third of the statues of the Twenty-fifth Dynasty from the Karnak Cachette belong to priests of Montu, and the burial equipment of the many who were interred in shaft tombs in the terraces of the Hatshepsut temple at Deir el-Bahari was sumptuous for the period, attesting to their elite status....
The importance of the cult and priesthood of Montu increased in Thebes during the Third Intermediate Period, culminating under the Kushite rulers of the Twenty-fifth Dynasty, whose control of Upper Egypt they probably helped to solidify and legitimate. The family of the viceroy of Kush during the reign of Osorkon III, Pamiu (i), included priests of Montu. The powerful Mayor of Thebes Montuemhat was descended from a family of vizirs and priests of Montu. The Besenmut family dominated the priesthood of Montu during the Twenty-fifth Dynasty. The priests of Montu controlled important positions in the temple treasury at Karnak as well."
This indicates that the cult of Montu was flourishing, indeed at its peak, during the time of AANK. He was of a family of priests, his father Besenmut also being a priest of Montu. There is more than one person with the name AANK, (and also Besenmut). But our AANK was certainly part of an elite dynasty. So it is fair to say that the worship of Montu was very important to him, and it in turn was very important to Thebes.
Litllwtw
O.L.
The importance of the cult and priesthood of Montu increased in Thebes during the Third Intermediate Period, culminating under the Kushite rulers of the Twenty-fifth Dynasty, whose control of Upper Egypt they probably helped to solidify and legitimate. The family of the viceroy of Kush during the reign of Osorkon III, Pamiu (i), included priests of Montu. The powerful Mayor of Thebes Montuemhat was descended from a family of vizirs and priests of Montu. The Besenmut family dominated the priesthood of Montu during the Twenty-fifth Dynasty. The priests of Montu controlled important positions in the temple treasury at Karnak as well."
This is really an intriguing question that you all have raised as to the references to Montu as a cult figure in Ancient Egypt and the gods association with the falcon-headed gods. Based on the references given by threefold31, and some other prior reading I have done in the past, is it possible that Aank was not an Egyptian, but rather an Afro-centric Nubian? And that Montu may actually be a hybrid deity combing the ancient Nubian god Apademak, the Lion-headed WARRIOR god of the Kush? There is an intriguing passage in E.A. Wallis Budge's Osiris and the Egyptian Resurrection, p.316, Part II, Appendices.
"Pepi passeth as Horus passeth, his sweat (Semen?) being the sweat of Horus, his smell being the smell of Horus, to heaven, to heaven with the gods of the House of the Lion and the Hawk."
Dwtw
Montu was a very ancient god of Egypt, appearing in the Pyramid texts. Possibly reinterpreted in the Third Intermediate Period, but certainly not imported from Nubia. His worship in Thebes began to become very prominent in the 11th Dynasty.
Litllwtw
O.L.
that Aank was not an Egyptian, but rather an Afro-centric Nubian?
Ankh was an Egyptian. During Ankh's time, Egypt has just previously been run by Nubians and they were everywhere, Egyptians, one and all (colors).
Ankh's stele portrays him as brown, and he does not display Nordic or Hebraic features.
You didn't think "Egyptians" were white or yellow, did you?
Montu may actually be a hybrid deity
Besides the earlier gods, who are limited to 8 or 9 or 10, or so, the rest tend to be involved in hybridization. [almost] Anyone can see that the pantheon is a bunch of wife-swappers and loose women.
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Please note that your post ends with a series of blank lines long enough to span The Abyss. You are not proofreading, previewing, or paying attention to how your work appears to others.
I will confess to not proofing or previewing, and my work often contains mis-spelled words. This is how I became Farter Shiva.
They were Afro-Asiatic, at least that is the latest fad in guessing what race the Ancient Egyptians really were. I never thought that they were "White" or "Yellow" That was probably artistic convention. Tomb paintings have been shown to portray definite racial types and skin color. The famous painting of Hebrews bringing trutube to the King shows distinctive skin color, hair styles, and maybe most importantly, textile designs and clothing.Ankh was an Egyptian. During Ankh's time, Egypt has just previously been run by Nubians and they were everywhere, Egyptians, one and all (colors).
Please note that your post ends with a series of blank lines long enough to span The Abyss. You are not proofreading, previewing, or paying attention to how your work appears to others.
That was purely unintentional. I accidently hit backspace, and totally fucked-up my paragraph.
So one question is....Who the fuck was the guy, (wearing the bull mask or a falcon mask), fighting or rather urging war? And what was the war about?....Kidnapping virgins perhaps or just the love of murder?
@hadgigegenraum Is this a tomb painting you are talking about? Is it Egyptian? Give some details as to context and where you saw it. (I assume you talking about an image you saw) As far as masks are concerned, the Ancient Egyptian priests would wear animal masks to reenact mythological stories in ritual and ceremony. Very few masks have survived to the present day due to the fragility of the materials used to make them. There is one Anubis mask that has survived the centuries. It was probably worn by a priest who chanted spells during the mummification process.
I never thought that they were "White" or "Yellow" That was probably artistic convention.
I never saw much "yellow," but some of the statues bear distinct Caucasian features. It's all mixed up - probably like any major city today.
But none of this matters, once we admit it's all mixed-up and Ankh was brown. So what?
What matters is that most white and brown people (I have known) have some DNA or Past Life link to Egypt. Their visions are couched in Egyptian terms. They are interested in Egyptology. This is how Egyptian Freemasonry, The Golden Dawn, the VII* OTO ("The Temple is that of Egypt"), and Liber Al came to us.
Most of us, here, with these interests, share a common link somewhere back in the dynasties, before the Persians, Greeks, and Romans set up occupation.
On the other hand, there is a white lady I know who lives in Tibetan terms - in Taiwan, no less, right now. She is not drawn to Egypt and not comfortable with it. There is an attorney, down in S.A. (so amer), who once posted here, who sees Hindu displays.
Then there are jugglers who can handle two or three cultural lineages at once. Buddhism is a common companion to Thelema, maybe because AC tried in on, and maybe because it's Oriental and cool.
Eah person's task, of course, is to cut through all this ornamental veil(s), and we find a rather clear picture ... devoid of cultural distinction.
When not dwelling in that state, we dig around (digitally) in ancient Egypt, trying to sort out why we are the way we are. Our Moderator goes directly to modern Egypt and digs around (physically?) in ancient Egypt.
Which brings us back to treading the thread. I have no interest in Montu ... except for Frater Mont. His astral journeys were filled with astral orcs and goblins that he dispatched with a double edged axe ... a copy of which he held in physical possession in his home or out in the sticks. He was extremely strong and powerful. He succeeded me as The Grand Master's right-hand-man, when I got out.
One day, circa 1980, down in Ensenada, I asked him what his name meant. He said, "Mont is the god of the Armory."
I replied, "Never heard of him."
No, i just associated with him for just under four decades.
I accidently hit backspace, and totally fucked-up my paragraph.
This is what previews, proofing, and editing are for. They are provided free of charge in order to present an orderly display for the public and future archeologists.
I generally ignore all this and end up with some of the most outrageous displays ... certain to befuddle the archeologists, so i am just the pot calling the kettle black. I only do this because your errors are usually in formatting, really bad stuff, and not spelling errors.
I used to test applicants into the dental technology field with tests of Manual dexterity and Spatial Perception. If they didn't meet a certain number (7.0), they didn't get into the program. I know exactly what you are facing, and it is my duty to inform you to Stay Aeay from working in the Field of Dentistry (and typesetting or jewely, too).
a priest who chanted spells during the mummification process.
Now you're moving toward The House of Anubis. That would open up a whole new deck of cards (the Anubis Dog Tarot, Sirius, and a really strange parentage).
Well the Stele that we are all concerned with has an apparent man addressing a "said god" who appears depicted with a man's body and the head of a hawk, to which one could say that the great and powerful Oz is wearing a freaking mask!
Now go out and fight!
So who were the Montu's fighting? Who were their enemies? Or are we just talking about the Montauk Project and other fantasies....
@hadgigegenraum Despite the unique status Crowley put on the "Stele of Revealing". I have seen hundreds of steles in museums both here in the U.S., and Egypt,(No exaggeration, in the Cairo museum and other smaller museums in Egypt, steles are a dime a dozen. Thematically, they are pretty much the same. Same iconography, same verses from the Book of the Dead, just insert name of the deceased. "My Mother my heart, My Mother my heart, do not speak ill of me in my time of Judgement" etc. That doesn't make them any less interesting. What you see IS the god Horus sitting on his throne receiving the adoration of said Ankh F-N-Khonsu. Egyptians were in a almost constant state of war. Pesky nomadic tribes and the dreaded "Asiatics" (Their term, not mine) were an almost constant threat. So yeah, Montu is a war god.
@shiva That was all very interesting. What is your opinion of The Rosicrucian's? Isn't their entire religion based on Ancient Egypt? I have been to the Rosicrucian Museum of Egyptology in San Jose, CA. a couple of times and was very impressed. As for Anubis, It is interesting that this thread is concerned with warrior gods. Wepwawet, another jackal-headed deity was a war god. So, is the dog star tarot equivalent to the Moon tarot in the Book of Thoth?
Yes lots of Steles made...a veritable industry...
And what is a "god"?
And who were the "Asiatics"
Yes lots of Steles made...a veritable industry...
And what is a "god"?
And who were the "Asiatics"?
The Hyksos.
A god is an all-powerful deity that controls everything life, nature, after-life.
And what is a deity?
And how do you know that such a 'god' who is a 'deity' can control "life, nature and afterlife"?
the great and powerful Oz is wearing a freaking mask!
The same Mask of Oz is also worn by Ra, Horus, and now apparently, Montu. I think there are others.
Despite the unique status Crowley put on the "Stele of Revealing".
It was unique to him as it was brought into his sphere of influence and brought a link into a previous involvement as a change agent.
the dreaded "Asiatics" (Their term, not mine)
Asia was just across the river. They meant no racial denigration. They meant Those Problematic Fuckers from the East.
Consider this [^] - then ponder the ancient problems of The Poor Brothers of Christ at The Temple in Jerusalem (Templars), whose modern descendants have some similar problems.
What is your opinion of The Rosicrucian's?
The RC guys is where the European lineage first surfaced ... after the suppression of the heretical Gnostics, back in Rome, in the catacombs where they hid. Alas.
The RC guys were, publickly, the image of healers. They were mostly considered kranks, as they are today. The gestalt of the RC may be obtained through the OTO V*, several degrees in different lineages of Freemasonry the bricklayers, and in the A.'.A.'. 5=6, or by visiting Tiphareth.
I have been to the Rosicrucian Museum of Egyptology in San Jose, CA. a couple of times and was very impressed.
That establishment was erected under an OTO Charter. It was sold by Reuss's widow, so the paperwork is sort of in order, but the inner order linkage is so shaky that it's best not to trust too far.
So, is the dog star tarot equivalent to the Moon tarot in the Book of Thoth?
No. I just made it up. I may create one (a deck). Maybe tomorrow. I have not read of the "Moon Tarot" in The Book of Birdhead.
Anubis is found in the Hod Library/Mortuary. I was impressed with his parentage. He was the son of Set. But Set had no testicles, Horus having torn them off (talk about war). But Nephthys, Set's wife, had an affair with Osiris and Anubis popped out.
Thoth adopted Anubis and taught him the magic stuff, like embalming.
Whenever one looks at walls or scrolls where Thoth is painted, there are always little Anubi nearby, busily doing something.
This biography was not made-up by me. It comes from unshakable sources and is a [one[ version of the Great stories of Khem.
And what is a "god"?
A made-up name, form, or concept used to explain things that would not otherwise make any sense whatsoever.
And who were the "Asiatics"
Those Bothersome Fuckers from across the east side of the river.
A god is an all-powerful deity that controls everything life, nature, after-life.
Uh-huh.
You sure fell into that one, didn't you?
Thematically, they are pretty much the same. Same iconography, same verses from the Book of the Dead, just insert name of the deceased.
There are very stele that have the imagery of Nuit on them. Most of them have an image of the god Pet in its place, which is one unique feature of the stele of AANK, and obviously significant based on the first chapter of Liber Legis.