There are very stele that have the imagery of Nuit on them. Most of them have an image of the god Pet in its place, which is one unique feature of the stele of AANK, and obviously significant based on the first chapter of Liber Legis.
More often than not, most funerary steles do portray Nuit as a Framing Device. You will also notice that almost ALL funerary steles have the winged solar disk as part of the design. I am not sure who the god "Pet" is. I have not encountered that name before. When I googled it, I came up with Anubis, not Horus or any other hawk-headed deity. Behind the seated Horus, we see the designation of the West, being the place of the dead. To be honest, I don't see anything on the "Stele of Revealing" that is unique to that object. Maybe I'm missing something.
No. I just made it up. I may create one (a deck). Maybe tomorrow. I have not read of the "Moon Tarot" in The Book of Birdhead.
Even if you did "Just make it up" Your synchronicity is spot-on as what do we see in the Book of Birdhead's Moon card? (Atu XVIII) Not one, but two jackal headed male figures. "Oh, where oh where has my little dog gone?"
Most of them have an image of the god Pet in its place
Can you please give us some citations here? Should be easy, if indeed "most" funerary steles have images of this god.
I am not sure who the god "Pet" is. I have not encountered that name before.
I too have never heard of him/her, and we share this ignorance with the Daemon Google, which records a total of zero (0) references to this god on the internets.
@ignant666 I had the same problem. When I used "Pet Egyptian god" as a search term, It came up with Anubis. Or, it says "Pets in Ancient Egypt" I am no expert, but I have read tons of stuff on Ancient Egypt. I have never encountered a god, a minor deity, or even a person named "Pet".
The great god Pet is also not found on this rather long list of Egyptian deities, a curious and unfortunate omission for a god important enough to have appeared on "most" funerary steles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Egyptian_deities
@herupakraath should certainly, as a public service, remedy this terrible omission by editing the wikipedia article to include this important deity.
We are like dogs chasing our tails on this one (Notice the canine imagery keeps popping up?) There is no god or goddess, or undine, salamander, or troll, fairy, or elf named "Pet".
Can you please give us some citations here? Should be easy, if indeed "most" funerary steles have images of this god.
"Pet" is a symbol for the sky:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sky_(pt_hieroglyph)
Can you show me where we will find the part about the
image of the god Pet
on that page?
It appears that "pt" is the pronunciation of a hieroglyph for sky, which is mentioned as related to the goddess Nut (who is of course the source of the Thelemic deity Nuit).
There is no mention of a god of this name, or that this god's image appears on "most" funerary steles in the place where Nut appears in the stele we are interested in. There is one example of a stele with a "pt" on top.
Indeed one might get the impression that the use of the "pt" hieroglyph was a reference to Nut.
... post continued from previous page...
who the god "Pet" is. I have not encountered that name before.
This makes two of us. We only need one more (ignorant person) to form a new Order.
Even if you did "Just make it up" Your synchronicity is spot-on ...
That would be attributed to wu-wei, and has nothing to do with me.
"Oh, where oh where has my little dog gone?"
Two of them are staying at Ignant's Temple, and three of them are here in the New Mexico wilderness.
I too have never heard of him/her
That's it! Three ignorant people are able to form the triple void (the Ains) in preparation for the birth of something new.
we share this ignorance with the Daemon Google, which records a total of zero (0) references to this god on the internets.
Beyond even the Borg? We are now boldly going where bone have gone before.
I had the same problem.
It is not a "problem."
It is an Omen, warning us that the Shinola is growing dull (from so much use).
We are like dogs chasing our tails on this one
This is your perception. You keep biting on the fish-hooks and confusing Shinola with Dung.
@herupakraath PT is NOT a god and adding an "E" doesn't make it a god, it is a hieroglyph for sky. Remember, there are no vowels in the Ancient Egyptian language, in fact there are no vowels in ANY Semitic languages. The hieroglyphs directly below the winged solar sphere (According to Doug Blake's translation available on Youtube) reads: "Hadit, great god of the sky." No mention is made of a god named P(e)T.
@shiva I know better now. Thanks. But it was worth a look, and I got exposed to other interesting stuff while chasing a wild goose. (Did I say "Goose" I meant the Great Cackler.
@herupakraath PT is NOT a god and adding an "E" doesn't make it a god, it is a hieroglyph for sky.
Please relax (well, if you aren't of course). Not only are you answering someone with actual contact to Egyptian Adepts, I am also sure that PET has super meaning in Tri-Key. From the two images Mr. Moss shared I assume that the heavily arked pt is what he means. I also see that none of these appear on the wiki page he provided as shown in the "Media in category Sky (pt hieroglyph)" even if it should be on most stelae. Who cares? If there is a God PET, those adepts should know and I am sure he will clear it up.
No, it's true.
The Egyptian Adepts have revealed a whole new system of magick to ol' Timbo, though he has yet to publish it.
@ignant666 Well, you learn something new every day. What makes them Egyptian adepts? are they in psychic communion with long dead Egyptian Priests? Are the adepts the collective consciousness of the Egyptian priesthood? I am not being sarcastic; I really want to know. Who is Timbo?
Who is Timbo?
Timbo is Timothy Moss, of Amarillo, Texas, who has solved the Cypher, and is a Prophet, and what-not. He is also sometimes known as @herupakraath .
What makes them Egyptian adepts?
The Egyptian adepts are Egyptian adepts due to being Egyptians who are adepts, i would guess. Doubtless all this will be explained quite soon, when the new system of magick that they have revealed is published. Any day now.
@ignant666 Well I'll just have to wait until the new system of Magick is published.
Dwtw
The issue in this thread is not about the Stele of Revelation per se. Its iconography is well established, and not all that unique. Nut (aka Nuit) is the upper sky goddess and below her is Horus the Behdetite (aka Hadit), in his usual form as the winged disk, and then you have the deceased, (the Osiris, AANK), confronting Re-Horakhty (aka Ra-hoor-Khuit).
Here's a stele of a different priest of Montu, from the same era as AANK, and he venerates not only RHK but Atum as well. Nut is not depicted, (just the sky sign instead), but the Behdetite is there:
Funerary stele of Hor, priest of Montu,
And here is another from the same cache that gave us the Stele of AANK:
Sycamore fig wood stela of Besenmut:
Hee's another of a different Ankhefenkhons
Sycamore fig wood stela of Ankhefenkhons
My hypothesis does not dispute any of the iconography of the Stele. My claim is that since Re-Horakhty is not considered a war-god, why is there so much verbiage about war in his chapter? It sounds much more like Montu/Mentu/Mont who is speaking. And this wouldn't be unusual, since the Stele was made for a priest of Montu, who is supposed to be forging a magical link with the modern era.
What IS unusual is that RHK repeatedly promotes an attitude that is out of character for this netjer. Thus, I am thinking that RHK is a mask for Montu, but is used in Liber AL because RHK appears on the Stele and Montu does not. And we know that Crowley had seen the Stele and gotten it translated before he received Liber Legis (via voice transmission or some other method). So he used the iconography at hand.
Keep in mind that right at the beginning of chapter three, the speaker says there is something amiss:
- There is division hither homeward; there is a word not known. Spelling is defunct; all is not aught. Beware! Hold! Raise the spell of Ra-Hoor-Khuit!
This could be interpreted as Montu saying, "you wrote down Ra Hoor Khut, but you got the name wrong, so let's raise the spell of RHK and we'll act like he's the one talking". Because the very next statement is:
- Now let it be first understood that I am a god of War and of Vengeance.
What I'd be interested to see is any credible Egyptian reference to Re-Horakhty calling himself, or being called, a "god of War".
Litllwtw
O.L.
in fact there are no vowels in ANY Semitic languages.
I was shocked to discover this, just a few years ago. WTF? The Es and Is, etc, are voels in English ... but not in Hebrew, et al.
Upon discovering this rampant discrepancy, I mailed back my QBL diploma, burned The Tables of Correspondence, and turned to makung fun of anybody who takes this sttuff seriously in the "revelation" department.
Oh, it has it's place (which I have announced on a regular basis). But no vowels? Oh, QBL on a stick.
"Hadit, great god of the sky."
Of all the names and words that AC brought to us, almost always perverted from mainstream "standard" lingo - but recognizable, we come to the title/name Hadit, which has no recognizable counterpart Iin name). Yeah, there that Beduit (or something similar the spelling of which I never memorized.
I ran the labyrinth of connection at least three separate times in the past. Each time I started with the Winged Globe on the (Ankh's) stele. Each time i ended up with Bennu (capstone, bird, and impressive iconography) ...
This is heavy=duty stuff - probably overriding (transcending) mere stelae or papyri or individual gods, especially those who are dual gods (Heru-Ra), or gods that wear the same mask.
All correspondences lead to Kether. Among them we find Hadit, Aiwass, the Point, the Monad, Atma (the Universal Self), all brought to us when we are in the designated trance: Atmadarshana.
This is all trimming on the Tree. As Ramana Mahashi said, "Either you are there - or you are not. It is not a matter of graded degrees."
That's right. It echoes one of my favorite catacombs ...
So The Path is merely we find our way through the refuse piles (Qliphoth) piled up around the spheres, like NYC on a garbage-collector's strike.
This is why I casually announce, in various ways, that It is all BS! Of course, only most of it is Qliphoth. We each need to find that vein of glimmering truth, a reflection of Atma-Kether-Aiwass-Hadit-doo-whop! that is oscillation in all ten spheres.
Media in category Sky (pt hieroglyph)" even if it should be on most stelae. Who cares?
I don't. But I will mention that Nuit (French for Night), better widely-known as Nut, is a sky goddess. The interpretations vary from "upper sky" to "outer space." She represents a wider viewpoint, situated above and beyond our atmosphere ... technically, the ionosphere, because that's our Paroketh (on a common, grand scale), and the Qliphoth gets really deep down under.
So sky, especially if it has stars, should cause no commotion.
What makes them Egyptian adepts?
He said so.
Look, like our adventures into the Lost Rite of the Tong, you are now probing another area of forbidden knowledge - and this time I will not give you hints. Except ...
He said so. He was asked to elaborate. Elaboration remains behind the Veil. If you want to penetrate that veil, you just ask him. he's right here, active on this treadmill.
Do not as anybody else because nobody knows excrement from Shinola(R) from Qliphoth. Feel free to open a dialog with the source.
Hope so. We got his new array "for future reference" and a promise of smiting down all doubts.
I have always come through. I will now come through from the future and say that I will, any day now, be posting an exerpt from 7D, now under erection, which should be of intense interest to anyone since it mirrors today's matrix display. Thanks for reminding me. I'll get to work of the extraction right away.
Well I'll just have to wait until the new system of Magick is published.
Please sit on your couch and do nothing. Under no circumstances should you Ask Timothy Directly
I have performed The Great Work. I have extracted the tooth truth from ancient times. I have searched everywhere but cannot find my copy of Rose's diary, and I do not remember ever having one. The watermarks are all washed out. I have already revealed a new magic that involves doing nothing - but not in a lazy way.
Are there other promises pending that have not be excused (excuses rendered)? Yes. One. Here, it's short (10 pages, mostly pictures); read it is if you were there ...
https://mega.nz/file/IFITmKSA#QddQCfWQ5s7wx-qdhZR7vbLbAfcLK6ixJaw1Dv9HK2A
Oh, yes, my I Ching arrived. I have a pending date with destiny regarding a certain inquiry I offered to conduct. But I cannot be forced (even by myself) to conduct a I (Yi) unless the time is auspicious, which it darn well is not and hasn't been. Your generous donations will speed the Spirit to come upon me - otherwise, no problem, the free divination will be along shortly. I may even pay you to proofread it.
Here's a stele of a different priest of Montu, from the same era as AANK, and he venerates not only RHK but Atum as well. Nut is not depicted, (just the sky sign instead), but the Behdetite is there:
Funerary stele of Hor, priest of Montu,
I can't help but notice that the figures in this stela are Black and Brown. Proving that this was made during the Kushite Rule during the 25 Dynasty. Before you all start jumping my shit, you will notice that different eras of Rulers in Egypt (Incorporating and becoming "Egyptianized" themselves) Are portrayed in a wide range of racial types. Assyrians and Canaanites were clearly olive-skinned, Hittites who were Caucasoid.
My hypothesis does not dispute any of the iconography of the Stele. My claim is that since Re-Horakhty is not considered a war-god, why is there so much verbiage about war in his chapter? It sounds much more like Montu/Mentu/Mont who is speaking. And this wouldn't be unusual, since the Stele was made for a priest of Montu, who is supposed to be forging a magical link with the modern era.
This may sound like a stupid question (I am not above asking stupid questions, ask Ignant666 and Shiva, and possibly Katrina) But who said that Re-Horakhty is NOT a War god?
In the pit of put a pat of the pet was called into question and thrown in the pot for someone said no vowels are allowed...why not even pyt.
Now as regards the question why a war god, Montu, depicted as having a 'Bulls head', like an army man, should, now turn into a 'Hawk' headed "deity"....well perhaps the answer was that it was not the head of a "Dove"....if you think about it....
And one answer might be that the war hawks in the Pentagon doing some time traveling probably, needed an air force, and feathers are expensive, so the temple could extract extra forced donations from the population so that the air force or the maybe it was the 'space force' to be launched into the pet or is it pit, sorry it is just PT to stand corrected...
Thankfully an Englishman conversant in French, and apt at translations did not fall into the pit, though some said he did, but that is not the issue, for while bulls can run, they can not fly.
the figures in this stela are Black and Brown. Proving that this was made during the Kushite Rule during the 25 Dynasty.
Perhaps we need a common definition of "proving." Brown-Black folks can also be seen on stelae from other periods, so your suggestion is merely circumstantial evidence combined with your subjective opinion, but coming out onto the ethers, the internet, and international news as proof.
Before you all start jumping my shit
Sorry. I already jumped before I came to [^] this extraordinary phrase.
My [3x31's] claim is that since Re-Horakhty is not considered a war-god
By you. Notwithstanding various sources that indicate otherwise, the stories about Horus on the Horizon (either one) ...
"As Horakhty (Horakhti, Harakhty), or “Horus of the two horizons”,
Horus was the god of the rising and setting sun."
... involve him fighting (i.e., war).
The Angels just came to me and showed me what is going on here. It's that same old problem, almost as old as the Horus-Set conflict. You know, the one about the TWO SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT in Egyptology.
Yeah, there the original Ennrad of Hrliopolis, and then there's the later Lords of Thebes exhibition. There are others, but these two schools shine forth as a way to mix up the planes, the planets, and the poop.
Horus hangs out at the Geburah Garrison, equivalent to Mars, war-god of Rome. Re-Horakhty is a composite, made-up, mixed-up thing of the imagination. The vast body of Thelemites, whom you are addressing with a claim of non-war, have read Ch 3, where it says, "I am a god of war and vengeance," and so the fundamental foundation of god-associations is firmly set in place. You are facing an uphill struggle.
who said that Re-Horakhty is NOT a War god?
Threefold31. His "claim" was just quoted.
why not even pyt.
PHT
The "H" is the fiddler's tool. Throw it in, or pull it out, it gives different answers so you can pick or choose the prettiest ornament for the day.
needed an air force, and feathers are expensive
Now you trip into the heart of the temple and its dogmatic rule. The Lords of Thebes were puppets for that Amoun-Amun-Amen guy, who was an AIR god - not a Solar god like those Tipharetic and Geburish fireballs.
Yeah, they eventually had to merge Ra into Amoun, as Amoun-Ra, another made-up conjugation. This Amoun guy is Jupiter, for Olympus's sake, and that means politics.
Yeah, this is a Montu thread, but the intrusion of air-head Amun has been noted.
Montu is not mentioned in AL because Crowley's semi-knowledge of pseudo-Egyptology didn't include the Montu configuration. It gave us Ra-Hoor-Khuit, god of war and of vengeance.
Thanks for the excursion into Vedic pantheon....not many animal heads there excepting Ganesh, but being Shiva you can correct me, but I think you will agree that there are wonders we can only imagine of what the Egyptian pantheon could have done with many arms, rather than a single one as the Stele of Revealing speaks of, unless that one arm is a polite means of referring to another appendage that the OTO secrets equate with Jesus H. Christ....yes the H does come in handy....and I am not referring to bowls of H and C placed around the Abby for polite hosting and temptation purposes...but vowels, and not bowels either...
Now I think you have properly identified AC's deficiencies in Egyptology as the probable reason why Montu is not the mask of the Third Chapter, unless we have masks upon masks...
As concerns air heads, remember the the OP, who is not an air head, but a sincere and talented fellow, is trying to make a point about feathers, as in Maat's, and is kindly, in a public manner, thinking out loud as to wonder about some things that have been on his mind...
Anyways what comes to mind, which might be just a case of spring fever creeping in, with this talk about Liber Legis, is, speaking of feathers, this question- WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE PLUME OF A SWAN? said employed to take down the dictation back on the 8th, 9th and 10th of April 1904, though it must have been the First of April that....
Watermarks and Rose's Diaries pale in comparison to the actual the feather! The stylus plucked from Thoth or was it Hamsa...or a swan or duck down by the Cairo golf course...
Was it a feather? Is there doubt... is it important?
No, but flying away does have its temptations....and Lashtal has been very accommodating! Thanks!
... the Cairo golf course...
This location is in the Forbidden Zone - you are not supposed to mention it, as it might give people ideas.
Jesus H. Christ.
My father was not much of a one for cussing, which that meant when he did, one was stopped in one's tracks. He did invariably mention Jesus' middle initial.
One i heard as a lad from various very elderly, now long dead, folks in my family, and which i thus suppose may be some sort of of late 19th century Philadelphia or rural Ohio thing (since they were all born then/there) was "Jesus H. Particular Christ".
My [3x31's] claim is that since Re-Horakhty is not considered a war-god
By you. Notwithstanding various sources that indicate otherwise, the stories about Horus on the Horizon (either one) ...
"As Horakhty (Horakhti, Harakhty), or “Horus of the two horizons”,
Horus was the god of the rising and setting sun."... involve him fighting (i.e., war).
Dwtw
Sorry, but that quote does not make RHK a war-god. I am asking for a source that refers to Re-Horakhty as a 'god of War'. Montu is quite clearly referred to in this way, but RHK is not, AFAIK. And one can't just say 'Horus fought with Set, and that makes him a god of war' because RHK is not simply Horus, but a syncretic deity with a more particular function.
Please specify what these "various sources" are that you refer to. I'd be very interested in reading them.
Horus hangs out at the Geburah Garrison, equivalent to Mars, war-god of Rome. Re-Horakhty is a composite, made-up, mixed-up thing of the imagination. The vast body of Thelemites, whom you are addressing with a claim of non-war, have read Ch 3, where it says, "I am a god of war and vengeance," and so the fundamental foundation of god-associations is firmly set in place. You are facing an uphill struggle.
Re-Horakhty is no more or less of a 'made up thing' as any of the other neteru of Egypt.
It's true that Thelemites have read chapter 3 and formed a god-association from it. My concern is whether anyone can show evidence that RHK is considered a God of War, outside of the statements in Liber AL.
Montu is not mentioned in AL because Crowley's semi-knowledge of pseudo-Egyptology didn't include the Montu configuration. It gave us Ra-Hoor-Khuit, god of war and of vengeance.
Indeed it did. But if the work was not the product of AC's conscious mind, then maybe it wasn't actually RHK speaking.
Litllwtw
O.L.
Notwithstanding various sources that indicate otherwise
Please specify what these "various sources" are that you refer to.
I was making a general referral to any source(s) that extol R-Hora in terms other than the battle.
Re-Horakhty is no more or less of a 'made up thing' as any of the other neteru of Egypt.
I consider composite gods more made-up than singular stand-alone deities, which are also made-up, but not so complexitly.
It's a matter of which dimension one is operating in at the time. Made-up things can bite down in Malkuth, probably anywhere under Paroketh. Somewhere up higher, they not only do not bite, they do not exist.
I am asking for a source that refers to Re-Horakhty as a 'god of War'. Montu is quite clearly referred to in this way, but RHK is not
Yes. You have demonstrated this to be true in the sense of the mainstream literature that depicts formal Egyptian archaeology. Upon consideration, I must admit that I have no war tales involving Re-Horakhty in my archives.
As I stated up above, Perdurabo's"semi-knowledge of pseudo-Egyptology," or something like that, has intrigued me for decades - and of course it's Golden Dawn Egyptology. Most of it can be squeezed into recognition with the books by the guys who dig and examine/translate - but some things don't fit well
I'm pretty much in line with the cosmology of AL, except for Ch 3, to which I like to refer when being dramatic. But, generally, like AC, I am not happy with certain parts of Ch 3, and I will gladly give a referral to a psychologist for anyone who revels in the gore.
And now you have (literally) exposed a gaping flaw in the iconography, or godography, employed in Ch 3.
Montu is not mentioned in AL because Crowley's semi-knowledge of pseudo-Egyptology didn't include the Montu configuration. It gave us Ra-Hoor-Khuit, god of war and of vengeance.
Crowley's knowledge of Ancient Egyptian mythology was from his reading E.A. Wallis Budge's publications. Even Frazer's Golden Bough, a book suggested in Crowley's reading list relied on Budge for his overview of Egyptian mythology. So if Crowley's knowledge is flawed, then so was Budge's. Personally, I love reading Budge's work. Flawed or not. A shout to America's own James Henry Breasted.
Dwtw
There is a certain paradoxical nature to the flawed Egyptian mythology of Liber Legis. On the one hand, if this were a transmission from these three gods through the minister called Aiwass, how is it that the names are rather garbled? Nuit for Nut, Hadit for Behdety, and Ra Hoor Khuit for Re-Horakhty. Wouldn't the gods know the right way to spell their names?
And especially in the case of the Behdetite, sure the language had no vowels, but it did have the 'B' consonant', so how did that get lost? Ra-Hoor Khuit is not as bad, but still, it leaves one with the impression that Crowley used what the French translator of the Stele gave him to work with. It would have been far more impressive had he written down the book without knowing what the Stele said in the first place, even if he used it as a talisman for the operation.
On the other hand, if he was going with his limited knowledge of Egyptian mythos from Wallis Budge, then why would RHK be depicted in such a warlike fashion? He wouldn't have gotten that from Budge. And that suggests that the message is genuine, even if the god names are questionable.
We can always fall back on the idea that the transmission takes on part of the character of the receiver, but that too is a little paradoxical; it fails to explain some of the oddities like the word 'abstruction', and the awkward grammar, which is certainly not like Crowley. He was a masterful writer if nothing else.
So one might argue that these divinities were just giving AC a new way of spelling their names, and that's fine. Splitting hairs about Nut vs Nuit isn't that productive. But when they give AC info that doesn't jibe with their alleged god-forms and mythology, it's another matter. it suggests that something was transmitted that was beyond AC's consciousness.
If there is any kind of 'proof' that Liber Legis is genuine and not just a fabrication of AC, it would have to lie in the things that he couldn't have known. Sometimes that can be a mathematical precision of gematria, or a solution to the Cipher. Other times it could be the meaning of the content.
In Nuit's chapter, the 0=2 formula gets stated and the idea of Negation is leaned on a lot, but most of the other verbiage is in character for a star or sky goddess. With Hadit's chapter, things get a little looser, and it seems that the winged disk is a symbol for the kundalini, so this veers further from the Egyptian mythos. Then in chapter 3, the character of RHK seems very much misrepresented.
Litllwtw
O.L.
Crowley's knowledge of Ancient Egyptian mythology was from his reading E.A. Wallis Budge's publications.
Yes. We all, more or less, read the same guy's books. Then it turned out he was a pop-archaeologist, abd ne didn't really fit into full-blown academic research.
Personally, I love reading Budge's work. Flawed or not.
Um ... this is your confession for wasting time reading erroneous output?
Wouldn't the gods know the right way to spell their names?
No, because they are made-up, illusionary figures that humans impose upon the spectrum of consciousness, always in the image of (some) man. This is why the gods have temper fits and depressions, and the made-up stories are supposed to provide us with wisdom.
I do not recall, ever, reading anything where AC defended the spelling of god-names as they appear in defience of mainstream archaeocracy. He just said, "Here's Nuit, etc, and that's the way it is."
it did have the 'B' consonant', so how did that get lost?
Since both the B-word and the H-word are attempting to name the unnameable, all names are destined to get lost, corrupted, or misused.
This is a very basic, fundamental, foundational rule and universal principle - Our source cannot be named, described, or colored.Attempts to do so end in failure or another new religion.
And that suggests that the message is genuine, even if the god names are questionable.
Oh, I have no issues with the message being not genuine (as a channeled text). I also have no issues with the Class D docs. Like the one that says "Go visit the museum where the Egyptian gods are. Memorize all their data and details. (Spellings and pronouncements are not mentioned, but one would think they apply).
The Assumption of God-forms - "The Magical Images of the Gods of Egypt should be made thoroughly familiar." Liber O.
So visiting museums where the names are different from the channeled text is recommended. Nothing is ever said or writ about how the museums don't know how to spell Magical Image names. However, there is usually constant QBL work going on with the channeled names and letters ... but never any comparison to how the museum and the diggers spell it.
We can always fall back on the idea that the transmission takes on part of the character of the receiver
I have fallen back permanently into this refuge. Distinctions such as "genuine," or "fabricated," or "made-up," or "faked," ... etc, do not matter. The sole meaningful property of any doc is its content. Imagined extraterrestrial or cosmic sources do not matter, as it's just a belief system.
Um ... this is your confession for wasting time reading erroneous output?
I don't consider it a waste of time. I have gotten countless hours of enjoyment from reading Budge, and he was correct about a great many things. He was one of the few Victorian Egyptologists to acknowledge the African roots of Egyptian religion. His Dictionary of the Ancient Egyptian Language, as well as Gardiner's are still referenced by modern Egyptologists. Anyway, in my opinion, ALL scholarship is erroneous as new discoveries are made all the time. His book, Amulets and Talismans is still regarded with great respect.
Yes. We all, more or less, read the same guy's books. Then it turned out he was a pop-archaeologist, abd ne didn't really fit into full-blown academic research.
True. He was more a wheeler-dealer in Middle Eastern antiquities.
I don't consider it a waste of time.
I see. Purposeful submersion in known erroneous material is considered "good" in your list of yama/niyama things.
Anyway, in my opinion, ALL scholarship is erroneous as new discoveries are made all the time.
A sweeping denouncement, including everything, stated as ALL in capital letters, but you forgot to BOLD the ALL.
Sweeping denouncements[almost] always lead to the lonely Woodshed, or Outhouse if required.
If it entertains me, and I get fulfillment out of it, then yes, it is good. Besides, Budge was not always erroneous.I see. Purposeful submersion in known erroneous material is considered "good" in your list of yama/niyama things.
A sweeping denouncement, including everything, stated as ALL in capital letters, but you forgot to BOLD the ALL.
There are no absolutes in life.
Sweeping denouncements[almost] always lead to the lonely Woodshed, or Outhouse if required.
Just call me "Zarathustra".
Crowley's knowledge of Ancient Egyptian mythology was from his reading E.A. Wallis Budge's publications.
"The translation of the stele provided to Crowley by museum officials identifies the figure of the star-goddess painted on it as Nout; the image of the winged globe beneath her is identified as Houdit; the image of Horus in the form of a hawk is identified as Ra-Hor-Khut: in the Book of the Law the images are identified as Nuit, Hadit, and Ra-Hoor-Khuit. The last group of names are taken from the writings of Gaston Maspero, a key figure of 19th century Egyptology, and the person in charge of Egyptian antiquities in 1904. Works by Maspero that contain the names are The Dawn of Civilization: Egypt and Chaldea, Vol. 1, and the Manual of Egyptian Archaeology: both were published prior to 1904. Some of the names seen in the Book of the Law and in Maspero's writings are Khu, Khuit, Khonsu, Bes, Maut, Mentu, Nu, Nuit, Ra, Hudit, Heru, Tum, and Tahuti."
From The Case of the Cairo Working.
There is a certain paradoxical nature to the flawed Egyptian mythology of Liber Legis. On the one hand, if this were a transmission from these three gods through the minister called Aiwass, how is it that the names are rather garbled? Nuit for Nut, Hadit for Behdety, and Ra Hoor Khuit for Re-Horakhty. Wouldn't the gods know the right way to spell their names?
This argument has been made by critics of Crowley, and presumes that contemporary spellings of god names use by Egyptian language researchers are correct as opposed to convenient.
And especially in the case of the Behdetite, sure the language had no vowels, but it did have the 'B' consonant', so how did that get lost?
It didn't get lost, nor was it imagined or a mistake.
Sign F18 in Gardiner's sign list is assigned several phonetic values, including HW and BH. Adolph Erman and Gaston Maspero argued for HW as it applies to the name of winged sun on the stele, while Peter Le Page Renouf argued for BH; being the president of the Society of Biblical Archaeology, along with the head of antiquities at the British Museum, the latter won out, but the matter is certainly not settled. When Erman produced evidence HW is the correct phonetic assignment for F18, Renouf was really upset by it, as recorded in his memoirs.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Tusk_(hieroglyph)
It would have been far more impressive had he written down the book without knowing what the Stele said in the first place, even if he used it as a talisman for the operation.
If he had, he would be accused of lying. Also interesting would be knowing exactly what was written in the lost vellum notebook: does he use Nouit and Houdit, or something else in the paraphrasing of the stele text.
If there is any kind of 'proof' that Liber Legis is genuine and not just a fabrication of AC, it would have to lie in the things that he couldn't have known. Sometimes that can be a mathematical precision of gematria, or a solution to the Cipher. Other times it could be the meaning of the content.
Agreed, but the last possibility will be the hardest to demonstrate.
So one might argue that these divinities were just giving AC a new way of spelling their names,
New god names are one the few ways to create intentional gematria expressions, a possibility that should be examined seriously, regardless of myth or academic treatments.
You should also consider that one form of Montu is Montu-Ra, who was still treated as a war god. If Montu-Ra can be a war god, why can't Heru-ra, or Ra-Hoor? Also, there was a form of Montu known as Horus of the strong arm, the combining of Montu with Horus, which shows how Horus can be Mentu, and Hoor alone in the Book of the Law could be a war god.
Crowley describes Ra-Hoor-Khuit as a supreme and terrible god that makes gods and death tremble before him in his paraphrases of the stele text, which shows he was treating RHK as a war god before the Book of the Law was writtten.
"The translation of the stele provided to Crowley by museum officials identifies the figure of the star-goddess painted on it as Nout; the image of the winged globe beneath her is identified as Houdit; the image of Horus in the form of a hawk is identified as Ra-Hor-Khut: in the Book of the Law the images are identified as Nuit, Hadit, and Ra-Hoor-Khuit. The last group of names are taken from the writings of Gaston Maspero, a key figure of 19th century Egyptology, and the person in charge of Egyptian antiquities in 1904. Works by Maspero that contain the names are The Dawn of Civilization: Egypt and Chaldea, Vol. 1, and the Manual of Egyptian Archaeology: both were published prior to 1904. Some of the names seen in the Book of the Law and in Maspero's writings are Khu, Khuit, Khonsu, Bes, Maut, Mentu, Nu, Nuit, Ra, Hudit, Heru, Tum, and Tahuti."
I found both books on internet archive, Maspero and McCauley. I look forward to reading them. Thanks!
There are no absolutes in life.
Death and Taxes, remember?
Jesus said to pay your taxes, and initiation is death. So we pay our dues and apply for the initiations.
Just call me "Zarathustra".
That's too long ... how about Zorro ?
The translation of the stele provided to Crowley by museum officials identifies the figure of the star-goddess painted on it as Nout; the image of the winged globe beneath her is identified as Houdit; the image of Horus in the form of a hawk is identified as Ra-Hor-Khut
This is very useful in cutting through the perplexities regarding the source of Perdurabo's particular, unique spelling ... which is now seen to be not that unique in that it is rooted the heart of accurate down-to-Terra translations: The Museum Officials.
Holy Cow on a Stick! If the museum officials were handing out lingo that is very close to Perdurabo's style, then I retroactively withdraw any comments about his sloppy style. The paper from the museum seems to disagree with contemporary terminology, but at least it's an identifiable source for words we use every day.
Maspero's writings are Khu, Khuit, Khonsu, Bes, Maut, Mentu, Nu, Nuit, Ra, Hudit, Heru, Tum, and Tahuti."
Even more detailed and synchronistic. It seems Perdurabo was merely using the correct lingo of his day, with only a minor fiddle here and there.
That's too long ... how about Zorro ?
Sure! If I can call you "El Kabong"! (For those under 65, There was a cartoon called "Quick Draw McGraw" an anthropomorphic horse with a little talking burro side-kick. His alter-ego was El Kabong the scourge of all no-goodniks)
While Jesus H. Christ has its own Wikipedia page, affirming @ignant666 's memories of what represents linguistic americana relative to swearing, there are those whom are conversant with Gerald Massey's work which thus could take the H. stand for Horus...and not to be confused with the use of the letter in AC's diaries at Cefalu...
Now regarding this issue of war gods, Jesus, of course, became a war god through Constantine and later via the Crusades, and as found in songs like "Onward Christian Soldiers"...Of course he is said to have come with a sword!
The phenomena seems to be universal, of people advancing war gods of various kinds, Jehovah, etc...what became of Islam, etc... thus we might look to the Egyptian pantheon as not being immune from drafting into service of war what might be unlikely candidates. Thus it should be noted that even Neith is considered as being a Goddess of war amongst other roles!
The phenomena seems to be universal, of people advancing war gods
This appears to be true (truly universal). I am currently working in &D (a book under construction). The present venue is Sumeria. the head go, who ruled the sky, has all the attributes of Thoth (medicine, scribes, etc). He was a clean-cut benevolent.
As the centuries passed, the creeps began to plot. Let's make him a war god they conspited. And that exactly what they did.
With this sort of religio-politico-manipulo going on (all over the place), one can easily see why it should all be dismissed and the manipulators sent to the stake.
... we might look to the Egyptian pantheon as not being immune from drafting into service of war what might be unlikely candidates.
Yeah.
Now regarding this issue of war gods, Jesus, of course, became a war god through Constantine and later via the Crusades, and as found in songs like "Onward Christian Soldiers"...Of course he is said to have come with a sword!
Matthew 10:33-34 "But however denies me before Men, I will deny them before my Father" "Do not assume that I have come to bring peace on earth, I have not come to bring peace, but a sword." A little context would be helpful. Even the Devil can quote the scriptures for his own end.
ERRATUM: Whosoever.
This is what is known as grammar Nazism.
Grammar Nazis often suffer indignities. If it's a matter of a word spelling in QBL, well, okay. Otherwise, buzz off!
@shiva El Kabong, what's gotten into you? I can't let a misspelled word stand, especially if I am quoting The Lord Almighty. (And I don't mean Crowley)
"The translation of the stele provided to Crowley by museum officials identifies the figure of the star-goddess painted on it as Nout; the image of the winged globe beneath her is identified as Houdit; the image of Horus in the form of a hawk is identified as Ra-Hor-Khut: in the Book of the Law the images are identified as Nuit, Hadit, and Ra-Hoor-Khuit. The last group of names are taken from the writings of Gaston Maspero ..."
From The Case of the Cairo Working.
Dwrw
Yes, thanks for this. I have been searching for Maspero's translations and couldn't seem to find them. I had a vague recollection he used the term Houdit, and that the French was influential in AC's spelling.
And especially in the case of the Behdetite, sure the language had no vowels, but it did have the 'B' consonant', so how did that get lost?
It didn't get lost, nor was it imagined or a mistake.
Sign F18 in Gardiner's sign list is assigned several phonetic values, including HW and BH...
This is helpful to know. A recent and very thorough disserttion on Horus the Behdetite still uses that nomenclature, so I would agree that the matter is not settled. But in terms of AC, if he was following Msapero, then it's neither here nor there, I suppose.
So one might argue that these divinities were just giving AC a new way of spelling their names,
New god names are one the few ways to create intentional gematria expressions, a possibility that should be examined seriously, regardless of myth or academic treatments.
You should also consider that one form of Montu is Montu-Ra, who was still treated as a war god. If Montu-Ra can be a war god, why can't Heru-ra, or Ra-Hoor? Also, there was a form of Montu known as Horus of the strong arm, the combining of Montu with Horus, which shows how Horus can be Mentu, and Hoor alone in the Book of the Law could be a war god.
Crowley describes Ra-Hoor-Khuit as a supreme and terrible god that makes gods and death tremble before him in his paraphrases of the stele text, which shows he was treating RHK as a war god before the Book of the Law was writtten.
I can't totally agree that just because a god inspires fear, that makes him a war god.
I'm aware that there was a form of Re called Montu-Ra, which would obviously involve aspects of both deities, thus being the warrior version of Ra (or the solar version of Montu). But that doesn't translate to Ra-Hoor being a war-god, because neither Ra nor Horus were considered specifically a god of war. I do agree that either of them, or pretty much ANY god could be transformed into a war-god; but I have yet to see the evidence that this was the case with Re-Horakhty specifically.
Litllwtw
O.L.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
The answer to your fine question is simply that the transition occurred with the Equinox of the Gods as recounted in the book of that title. For it is in the reception of Liber Legis that the transformation that you are asking about took place.
To think otherwise would be in variance with your own work would it not... I think your the answer is confirmed in various ways by affirming that the change of the Ra and Horus was through Crowley's reception.
The Neters weave and grow, and thus perhaps you might find in your gematria and astrological presentations to affirm this or strictly poetical and other imaginations that might be well nourished by looking into the pantheon of when...
Love is the law, love under will.
I was shocked to discover this, just a few years ago. WTF?
Only a few years ago? That really surprises me.
But no vowels? Oh, QBL on a stick.
It does bring a whole new level to the idea of fiddling. But also shows how someone can form correspondences with just a little ingenuity
Among them we find Hadit, Aiwass, the Point, the Monad, Atma (the Universal Self),
The manifestation of the infinite potential of the darkness of Nuit.
But who said that Re-Horakhty is NOT a War god?
There are many Horuses, who have different roles. This one has been merged with Ra, and absorbed the god called Hrumachis or Horemakhet. He presides over the sunrise and the East, and has also been linked with the pharaoh.
"Jesus H. Particular Christ".
That name also turns up in some dialogue in one of Wilson's Historical Illuminatus books.
Re-Horakhty is no more or less of a 'made up thing' as any of the other neteru of Egypt.
The word neteru itself sometimes being roughly translated as "principle"
So if Crowley's knowledge is flawed, then so was Budge's.
Just remember that Frazer and Budge wrote at a particular time, and that research in to those areas has been done since they were published.
We can always fall back on the idea that the transmission takes on part of the character of the receiver, but that too is a little paradoxical; it fails to explain some of the oddities like the word 'abstruction', and the awkward grammar, which is certainly not like Crowley. He was a masterful writer if nothing else.
How does it fail to explain it, though? Just because Crowley's consciousness may have colored some of it, does not mean that it colored all of it. I've read some books where I don't doubt that the experience of transmission was authentic, though large parts of them clearly reeked of the receiver's ego. The degree of ego to pure gnosis may vary from text to text.
the combining of Montu with Horus, which shows how Horus can be Mentu,
But Montu can also be Khonsu and Set as well. His cult blended with,absorbed, and was absorbed by many different cults.
(For those under 65, There was a cartoon called "Quick Draw McGraw" an anthropomorphic horse with a little talking burro side-kick. His alter-ego was El Kabong the scourge of all no-goodniks)
They're still available online, you know.