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"Ye are against the people" 2:25 AL. Who are 'the people'?  

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dom
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13/10/2020 11:16 pm  

"Ye are against the people" 2:25 AL. Who are 'the people' spoken of here and why? 

This topic was modified 2 weeks ago 3 times by dom

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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14/10/2020 9:54 am  
Posted by: @dom

Who are 'the people' ...

In the mystical sense, they are the independent operators within the human organism, including impulses, drives, preferences, biases, desires, that sort of thing.

In the magickal sense, they are the "low men," the thoughts, words, and deeds than will rise up as soon as one starts to put Ch 3 into motion. For example, a person could establish a Temple of ON, and then gather the twigs and cakes for The Mass of the Phoenix, they would be fulfilling the instructions in that Ch 3.

If you want to speed up the alchemy, take a legal alchemical potion just befor you do the Mass. Repeat daily until the shitstorm begins.

In a practical, earthy sense, think of the state of mind you would like to be in when "the people" come over the hill. The people of Islamic Juhad, or Genghis Khan. or Chairman Mao.

Why? I dunno.

 


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dom
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14/10/2020 10:55 am  

A great answer there from Shiva.

I don't know if anyone here had a private education but I didn't.  I'm told that in such establishments the kids are taught, directly or not, that they are "elite" and those who can or did not pay for an education are "oiks" or "trash".   Such conditioning would've been instilled in AC  (seen throughout his writings) but as Shiva pointed out the passage is more of an individualistic matter.

Another point on this idea of being "peopled" by selves other than one's RHK centre, Christ perhaps touched on that when he asked the crazy guy who he was and he answered, "Legion, for we are many" (Mark 5:9).

Gurdjieff, Colin Wilson and Elron were also preoccupied with this idea.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Aleisterion
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14/10/2020 2:31 pm  

"We the People": democracy is not the answer to the world's political problem. There is another form of government coming: the aristocracy of genius. In times to come, geniuses will be the political movers and shakers, not idiots elected by a mob of duped fools.


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dom
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14/10/2020 3:41 pm  
Posted by: @aleisterion

"We the People": democracy is not the answer to the world's political problem. There is another form of government coming: the aristocracy of genius. In times to come, geniuses will be the political movers and shakers, not idiots elected by a mob of duped fools.

Oh I see and who decides who these "geniuses" are?  Maybe it's a self-declared thing?  That was irony for anyone who missed it.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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14/10/2020 3:50 pm  
Posted by: @dom

I know a fair few idiots with Phds also. 

Not as many as i do, i bet. An administrator at the research think-tank/grant mill i used to work at was once heard to use this exact term to describe the eggheads like me who paid her salary. Problem is, she was right in all too many cases.

"Meritocracy" seems alluring but turns out to be an idea that tries to take the politics out of politics, and doesn't ever actually work, for exactly this reason. Who are the "geniuses" who ought to run this apolitical meritocracy turns out to be an intensely political question.

Ultimately, "meritocracy"/"aristocracy of genius" (something AC often advocated) is thus a form of political question-begging/circular reasoning.


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dom
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14/10/2020 4:00 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @dom

I know a fair few idiots with Phds also. 

Not as many as i do, i bet....

.

Maybe.

Ultimately, "meritocracy"/"aristocracy of genius" (something AC often advocated) is thus a form of political question-begging/circular reasoning.

Yeah of course.  Incidentally Reich made a great quote about Hitler; "The fact that Hitler was a political genius unmasks the nature of politics in general as no other fact can".   I've heard scholars call Himmler or Stalin geniuses also, not Nazi scholars or radicals by the way.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Aleisterion
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14/10/2020 4:12 pm  

It's not so difficult to discern great genius. I'm not meaning education: that's not a true measure of genius, not at all. Extraordinary genius is impossible to deny. Genius comes in countless forms, not merely intelligence. 

The political systems we have currently are all problematic. To a degree, they all tread upon human rights as established in Legis. A system that works without tyranny, without capitalism, and most importantly, without mob rule, is going to happen. This aristocracy of genius is a long way off yet, but it will come. I realize that right now everybody thinks democracy is the wave of the future, but for what it's worth, I'd like to go on the record stating that it isn't.


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dom
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14/10/2020 4:39 pm  

We tried no democracy in Europe, see everything that happened pre 1776.

Besides we don't really have proper democracy now a I'm sure Ignant will explain regarding proportional representation and the political party funding-machine.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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14/10/2020 9:58 pm  
Posted by: @dom

we don't really have proper democracy now

There are but few examples in history that were/are "proper democracies." The Black Lodge always inserts an intermediary "ruling class" that the people are stoopid enough to elect or tolerate. In the USA, we call it The Electoral College ... "The Collage that Elects."

Posted by: @dom

Ignant will explain regarding proportional representation and the political party funding-machine.

Please do not purposely stir the political grass pot in order to get politics back up in the headlines. This always ends in locking or admonishing or worse.

The OT, posted by the OP, "WHO are The People?"

Note: Not World Health Org.


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dom
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14/10/2020 10:43 pm  
Posted by: @shivaPlease do not purposely stir the political grass pot in order to get politics back up in the headlines. This always ends in locking or admonishing or worse.

The OT, posted by the OP, "WHO are The People?"

Note: Not World Health Org.

I didn't interject with "We the people".  That's when it went into party politics, I was discussing Christ and Colin Wilson.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Aleisterion
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14/10/2020 11:12 pm  
Posted by: @dom

I didn't interject with "We the people".

No, Crowley did. "The cant of democracy condemned. It is useless to pretend that men are equal; facts are against it. And we are not going to stay, dull and contented as oxen, in the ruck of humanity." (Old Comment)

I completely agree with him.


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Shiva
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14/10/2020 11:24 pm  
Posted by: @aleisterion

I completely agree with him.

Then you, like myself, are politically incorrect, which I believe is a minor felony curable by hanging.


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dom
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14/10/2020 11:36 pm  
Posted by: @aleisterion
Posted by: @dom

I didn't interject with "We the people".

No, Crowley did. "The cant of democracy condemned. It is useless to pretend that men are equal; facts are against it. And we are not going to stay, dull and contented as oxen, in the ruck of humanity." (Old Comment)

I completely agree with him.

Equal at what? 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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dom
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15/10/2020 12:21 am  

@aleisterion

Remember what happened in the 20th century when the big idea of doing away with democracy held sway in certain countries? 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Aleisterion
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15/10/2020 12:39 am  
Posted by: @dom

@aleisterion

Remember what happened in the 20th century when the big idea of doing away with democracy held sway in certain countries? 

It's absurd to think that democracy is the ultimate form of government and it's naive to think that it is at all benevolent. Anyway I've neither time nor inclination to argue this or any other issue. I simply wished to make my point known on this matter and let it stand at that. There is little interest to debate an issue that one knows is already settled in future. 😉 


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Shiva
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15/10/2020 3:47 am  
Posted by: @dom

Equal at what?

Equal under the Law. That's it. Everybody else is different from me and you in almost every respect, and you and I, although handsome and of knightly [nightly?[ appearance, don't even look alike.

"The Law" in this case means Earth Law. Under the Law of Thelema, there semes to be a big distinction between the Kings of the Earth and The Low Men.

Posted by: @aleisterion

It's absurd to think that democracy is the ultimate form of government and it's naive to think that it is at all benevolent. Anyway I've neither time nor inclination to argue this or any other issue.

I will take the time, in order to get away from the Borg interface. I have fed the dogs and it approaches Sunset (the Hour of Power)(the Horus-zone horizon of The Phoenix, who is Ra-Hoor triumphant on the Western Horizon - not The Seat in the East where he started).

[end emblematic imprimatur display]

The New World Order is moving in on everyone. Borg Data Collection increases to the third order of magnitude (cubed) each daily rotation. Big Business has taken over Medicine and Pharmacy. Dentistry is still its own BB, and it remains aloof ... and super-wealthy. Since the average dork citizen who votes has not been endowed with at least fifth circuit (harmony) insight, any thing that calls for a straight-line popular vote on any issue is doomed to dismay because it's all cultural downplay or upmanship.

There will be no Peace in Sodom until the ruling hierarchy is incumbented with people who have the corresponding neural circuits open, intact, and operating. 

Baphomet tried something like this with his Constitution and his Rules and Benevolences of The Order. He made reference to it being "Aristocratic Communism," which is a really scary moniker. But the basic concept was good, and it worked out really well on the physical/financial plane for us, for a while. And "they" often say, "but not for any other branch or twig of the Ordo. Except for the OHO. It's written to be that way. Sez so in the Constitutional Scriptures. But look, we changed the rules. We took out the Aristocratic shit and let any first degree member move into a profess house.

Also note that the Ordo Profess House system was doomed for two cosmic karmatic injunctions: (1) Crowley's last letter to Germer, in a PS or footnote at the bottom said, "The Profess House system will not work. You will have to find some other way to bring in the New Age." These were his last written words that I have seen.

[Shall we weep bitterly at that? Or laugh aloud?]

(2) The Profess House system, upon which the Ordo was physically and philosophically based on the practice of the IX*. Or lesser degrees if that's all you had.  It should be viewed from a careful review of ALL the official documents of that (Crowley-Reuss) era. As openly expressed previously, one might come to appreciate the notion that the Ordo was a system of brothels for aristocratic, communistic, brotherhood of man, sort of fellows who had passed a certain initiation and certainly paid their dues in advance as required by the I itself no less.

Unfortunately, Baphomet's Medicine of Metals and Universal Med and Elixir of Immortality, and its preparation, as gradually revealed in the degrees, did not turn out to be the Universal Key to The Mysteries. It was merely a reflection of that Key, which is the integration of yin and yang within one's own being.

I think Achad saw that, and that's why he threw a fit about Crowley being a Devil, over on that Aeon of Maat thread.

My comments refer to the Crowley-Reuss era and not to the moder heir which operates under a different, non-profit, Constitution.

I had already come up with, and discussed, a plan for (orderly) decentralization. But the Invisible Order said, "No way. The cluck stops here!" And centralization became dispersal.

Anyway, I can tell you who the people are, and how they can be sorted in an orderly manner. My solution involves the Constitution, but leaves out sex-magic in favor of servicing the basic needs of "the people." Said people are those of the first 4 circuits, so it includes everybody. One grade: "Man of Earth." Four degrees (pay grades), based on control of four successive circuits.

There's more, but my leisure time has expired ...

 


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ignant666
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15/10/2020 3:22 pm  

AL was transmitted to/written by AC when he was some form of Adeptus, i think still 5=6.

A awful lot of the text is directed to a [particular] person at that stage of initiation, pre-Abyss.

Alienation from normies/"low men" is an inevitable part of pursuing a spiritual path in a very materialist modern society. But i don't think this survives the Abyss.


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dom
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15/10/2020 9:37 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

 

Baphomet tried something like this with his Constitution and his Rules and Benevolences of The Order. He made reference to it being "Aristocratic Communism," which is a really scary moniker. But the basic concept was good, and it worked out really well on the physical/financial plane for us, for a while. And "they" often say, "but not for any other branch or twig of the Ordo. Except for the OHO. It's written to be that way. Sez so in the Constitutional Scriptures. But look, we changed the rules. We took out the Aristocratic shit and let any first degree member move into a profess house.

These Orders were/are irrelevant to what Legis is about especially now when resources about yoga and occultism (neurosomatic etc preoccupations) are all over the internet.   Only an idiot would want to be part of some 'magical order' now....but i see your point AC wanted to experiment with social dynamics according to his take on Legis  with Orders and at Cefalu.

Were a few Victorian or Renaissance era Masons the only people in history to open the Neurosomatic circuit?  No.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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dom
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15/10/2020 10:14 pm  
Posted by: @aleisterion
Posted by: @dom

@aleisterion

Remember what happened in the 20th century when the big idea of doing away with democracy held sway in certain countries? 

It's absurd to think that democracy is the ultimate form of government and it's naive to think that it is at all benevolent. Anyway I've neither time nor inclination to argue this or any other issue. I simply wished to make my point known on this matter and let it stand at that. There is little interest to debate an issue that one knows is already settled in future. 😉 

You haven't really argued anything.  You just made a couple of vague statements i.e. good riddance to democracy and let genius rule.  

What?

Did anyone notice in the last big debate that Trump (a self-styled "very stable genius") was accused by Joe Biden of 'looking down' on Catholics like him and 'ordinary Americans'?  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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15/10/2020 10:51 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

AL was transmitted to/written by AC when he was some form of Adeptus, i think still 5=6.

Excuses have been made, and the lines have been drawn tighter (but with more art, rather than scientific fact), and "the historians" (at least one, of some limited say-so in the matter) have elected or selected to correlate the 6=5 with the 1900 Mexico workings.

Well, yes, he formally got the 5=6 in early 1900, and did some "magic" in Mexico later that year. Sez so right Here in the Timeline page ...

1900

  • April 17: At the request of Mathers, AC attempts to seize the Vault of the Adepts and the property of Isis-Urania that was housed at 36 Blythe Road. With the lease not being in his name he had no legal right to any of the property and left without anything. William Butler Yeats writes of it, "...(Mathers) sent a mad man- whom we refused to initiate- to take possession of the rooms and papers of the Society. ..." Yeats continues, "The envoy is really Crowley, a quite unspeakable person. He is I believe seeking vengeance for us not initiating him......Mathers like all despots must have a favourite and this is the lad."
  • April 21: Attends meeting of the Inner Order of the Golden Dawn.
  • July 6: Reaches New York. Stays in New York for two or three days then travels to Mexico City by train. Lies sick in the Hotel Iturbide for a period.
  • Obtained 33* (33rd and last degree of Scottish Rite Freemasonry) in Mexico City.
  • August: The 30th and 29th Aethyrs (TEX and RII) in Mexico.

Oh, goodness and the thirty-three detractors. There is enough fulminate in this short list (above) to ignite several bombshells.  First ...

Christeos Luciftas

Our own Thelemic Encylo tells us ...

There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, or search the related logs, but you do not have permission to create this page.

I never heard of this Ch.'.L.'. moniker before. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, and further investigation will lead away from "The Peaople."

Otherwise, yes he goes to Mexico, discovers Peyote, gets the 33* (everybody who was somebody seems to have had to get this gemstone to pin on their apron and brow). Then he got the first two AEthyrs opened up.

Good. That's a bit of "practical magic" (the key phrase in the 6=5 task description), but AC tells us he didn't do his formal self-initiation into 6=5 until after his 8=3, and he "went back" to fill in the gaps, which is better than skipping it over like the jump-claimers do.

His translation of Levi's Key of the Mysteries (was it?) was simply a token compliance with the 7=4 requirement (publish or perish). It was more or less a fulfillment of the "old Aeon" curriculum.

If we step back from the details, we see him setting up the Great Experiment by purchasing Boleskine and making talismans in 1899. In '00 he gets the 5=6. Then things unravel.

Although he does a lot of stuff  in four years, the actual, real, true 5=6 (Inner) does not occur until SpringBird Time in 1904.

Yes, he was an Adeptus when AL was transmitted. It is thus duly contaminated with his perspective on things and his personal karma.

I think all the "holy texts" are transmitted this way (Koran, Bible [BC - Before Complication], etc). No matter how pure the original gnosis, the message that comes out in speech or script is always going to be modified by the mind of the scribe, or the holy chosen prophet one, as the case might be.

 So every Liber, doc, and inspired message, even if it bears the Class A stamp of Approval, needs to be assessed by the reader in terms of it being a mental reflection of the true (supra-abyssmal) state ... as long as it (the message) contains gods, forms, concepts, conflicts and differentiation ... which they all do.

In the "true" state of samadhi, or gnosis, or Rigpa, all forms of low men are perceived as part of one's "self." Who can cut down, or deny benefits to, part of one's self? After all, each of us has our own low man - we tug it around all day, or it tugs us. Bringing that duality under control is the task of the Low Man in the Outer Order. 

Let's not kind ourselves and pretend that Adepti still have some karmatic and perception "issues" ... which is Ignant's point, perhaps re-frazed.

 


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