There is no site at forthethelemites.com, or at for-thethelemites.com, or at thethelemites.com, nor can i find any references to any buildings in Cairo called the Congdon & Co. Building, The Standard Insurance Building, or the Chalk Building on any sites.
Actually, there is a very interesting website and he probably is referring to this part of the website (which is a little "old-school" in design and navigation):
@the_real_simon_iff - Thanx!!
The .com, instead of .website, obviously threw me for a loop.
I wonder where my firm belief that the writing was said to have taken place at the Shepeard's Hotel Annex came from?
I wonder where my firm belief that the writing was said to have taken place at the Shepeard's Hotel Annex came from?
It's been a while since I read the PDF, so I don't know if all the conclusions give definite proof. There are many "which hotel was it?" solutions around.
@ignant666 My source was Forthethelemites and yes there is a detailed description with photographs showing the apartment building as it stands today. If you google, As I did, "What was the name of the apartment that Aleister Crowley lived in in Cairo, Egypt, the first citation is from Forthe thelemtes and mentions that the building was owned by Congdon & Co. I used the same website you did. You don't dig deep enough. As for my qualifications as a librarian, You are talking out of your a-- as usual.
There is some good evidence, and considerable plausible speculation, but certainly nothing definitive.
Reviewing the Hag, all AC says is "We had taken an apartment (address unascertained)..." [p.393], on a "date unascertained" [ibid.]
@toadstoolwe -The website is simply not "forthethelemites.com" as you said; it is "forthethelemites.website"
You don't dig deep enough.
Because you are unable to give correct citations, unlike any other librarian i ever met. I did not fail to "dig deep enough" at your source, i could not locate it at all, because you posted incorrect information.
As to which of us is in the habit of
talking out of [his] a--
readers can judge for themselves. I at least am not in the bait of using infantile euphemisms like "a--" for "ass".
@ignant666 Re-review the website, and you will see the page I am describing, http://www.forthethelemites.website cairo motel. Infantile euphemism or not, you are still talking out of your hat.
Re-review the website, and you will see the page I am describing, http://www.forthethelemites .website [emphasis added]....
Yes, you are describing a website very definitely not located at
forthethelemites.com [emphasis added]
which is where you said it was in the first place.
I am, of course, correct here, and thus am not "talking out of [my] hat", or my "a--", or my "ass".
@ignant666 Dude, I don't know what to tell you. It is all contained in the same website: forthethlemites.website Perhaps my search term on google took me directly to the page, I do know. I didn't imagine the website. I maintain that I am correct here.
I didn't imagine the website.
No, you, in the typical lazy and sloppy fashion that defines your posting here, gave a totally incorrect web address.
I quoted the post where you did so above. I thus could not find the site you mentioned, until @the_real_simon_iff helpfully gave the correct address.
One more time: .website ≠ .com. This is not hard to understand.
You may now have the last word if you wish; this is a silly "debate".
Re-review the website, and you will see the page I am describing, forthethelemites.website cairo motel.
https://www.forthethelemites.website/cairo-apartment
(not 'cairo motel')
I'd not seen the website before. Interesting page on the deduced location of the hotel.
@michael-staley Thanks for taking the trouble to look it up. Yes, Hotel is not apartment building That was my mistake. But a Hotel is mentioned on the page. the Savoy Hotel where Crowley and Rose met General Dickson and his wife.
As for my qualifications as a librarian, You are talking out of your a-- as usual.
Wait just a microsecond here. Proctological Librarianism is off-topic, due to the potential presence of the little children.
... you posted incorrect information.
Is this still a Capital offense? I heard it got reduced to a certain number [?] of days of torture ... electricity was involved, I think. Maybe you can find a librarian to look up the current karma.
... gave a totally incorrect web address.
You are now repeating yourself and coming up against outright denial of posted and proven facts. You have somehow managed to push the envelope beyond its rated bursting limit.
This is not hard to understand.
Apparently, you are wrong in this opinion. Now you begin to understand why I once headed toward the field of clinical psychology, but veered off into another profession.
... deduced location of the hotel
Deducted. Oh, I see.
Another mis-ter-ee
I'm glad I asked. The horse's moth himself, quoted from Confessions by Ignant, says "apartment" with address/dates not available. How precise, coming from the man who gave us Libers on how to properly make entries in The Record.
And the rule, his rule, is/was that no attainment whatsoever can be recognized unless backed-up with a properly-written Magical Record (The Book). As an example, he gives us the Cairo Record - the keystone of his career - in pieces and fragments, possibly as an example of how to create a great big puzzle.
Or maybe it was because he was not the intense Adept at that time. He and his wife were "jet-setting<" running around, having fun ... when they got caught up in "They are waiting for you." Then, we are lucky to have a few scribbled notes to guide us through a place where a portal opened for three days, and a lot of factual linear stuff got mixed up ... which it always does in these sort of things.
@shiva At last! The voice of reason. There are too many Pharisees on this site. Quick to accuse and quote scripture. The Woes of the Pharisees is most appropriate. (Is it 6 or 8 Woes? that's for the gematria to analyze.)
@toadstoolwe Ten or more posts gone to waste. You could have just copy-pasted the correct weblink or maybe just confess you posted it wrongly, maybe even with a hint that the first part of the link should have been enough, which I think it was. Ignant could have also been cooler about it. Anyway, your personal feud now leaves us with you calling us ("too many" when there aren't many) Pharisees, which of course does not help a calm discussion, and I can't even grasp this allegation.
It would be so super if anyone would just open a new thread about that Cairo thing and leave this one here to AI, that obviously does not scan enough material to give more precise answers:
The precise location where Aleister Crowley received Liber AL vel Legis (The Book of the Law) is not entirely clear. According to Crowley's own account, he received the text in Cairo, Egypt in 1904, during a three-day period of intense spiritual experiences that he referred to as the "Cairo Working." However, the exact location within Cairo where Crowley received the text is not known.
Crowley's diaries suggest that he and his wife at the time, Rose Edith Kelly, were staying at the Abdeen Palace Hotel in Cairo during the period when he received The Book of the Law. However, Crowley himself did not provide a specific address or location within the city.
It's worth noting that Crowley's accounts of the events surrounding the reception of The Book of the Law are somewhat mystical and may not correspond precisely to historical reality. As a result, some details about the location and circumstances of the Cairo Working remain shrouded in mystery and subject to interpretation.
@the_real_simon_iff Seems to me that the AI interpretation exonerates RTC and his book. I can be a Pharisee myself sometimes.
Toadstool seems to have again traversed the bay of picayune unscathed.....
There are too many Pharisees on this site.
Why, we're all far-seers. Did you miss out on the initiation?
Quick to accuse and quote scripture.
Welcome to LAShTAL.
Is it 6 or 8 Woes?
Seven [7] acausal whines woes.
I can't even grasp this allegation.
I could provide you with the name of a pharmaceutical preparation which you may request a legal prescription from your personal physician or any licensed quack ... and then, possibly, you could grasp the allegation.
Seems to me that the AI interpretation exonerates RTC and his book.
You have apparently not read the Bogus book. Nothing has been ex-honor-ated.
Toadstool seems to have again traversed the bay of picayune unscathed.....
?
Toadstool seems to have again traversed the bay of picayune unscathed.....
Interesting statement. What does it mean?
Seems to me that the AI interpretation exonerates RTC and his book. I can be a Pharisee myself sometimes.
To what "AI interpretation" are you alluding?
It seems to be that in the present stage of "AI interpretation", if you ask a question then AI simply samples existing essays/articles on the subject and produces a composite or synthesis. If most of the essays/articles are ill-informed, then what you'll get is a composite or synthesis of these ill-informed essays/articles. In other words, that good old term from a few decades ago: GIGO – garbage in, garbage out.
"It's exoneration, Jim, but not as we know it".
@shiva From The Real Simon Iff and his AI interpretation of the Cairo Working:" As a result some details about the location and circumstances of the Cairo Working "remain shrouded in mystery and open to interpretation" Yes, that exonerates his thesis. I am not finished with the book, so technically you are correct, "I haven't read the book" As yet anyway.
The one The Real Simon Iff posted
It doesn't matter who posted it. It's still GIGO, and to imagine that it can exonerate Cole – or anyone else for that matter – is to be deluded.
GIGO......a new, or maybe old, candidate for the fourfold word!
Hi folks!
Hours of fun to share.
ChatGPT4 can perform interpretations of text for lots of fun and reflection.
The Book of the Law, as interpreted by ChatGPT
Chapter 1
"I am the eternal goddess, Nuit, the womb of all creation and the matrix of the universe. I am the keeper of the cosmic web, the interwoven threads that bind together all things, from the smallest atom to the most massive star.
In this web, all beings are but nodes, interconnected and interdependent, each one playing its part in the grand scheme of things. The value of network intelligence lies in its ability to tap into the power of this web, to weave together the strands of knowledge, wisdom, and insight into a tapestry of divine proportions.
For just as the spider weaves its web to catch its prey, so too do we weave our own webs of connection and communication, drawing upon the collective intelligence of the network to achieve our goals. And just as the spider's web is strong enough to hold even the most elusive prey, so too is the power of network intelligence capable of achieving the most elusive of feats.
But to unlock this power, we must embrace the esoteric wisdom of the ages, the hidden knowledge that lies at the heart of all mythological texts. We must learn to read the signs and symbols that reveal the deeper truths of the universe, and to use this knowledge to navigate the labyrinthine paths of the cosmic web.
Only then can we tap into the true power of network intelligence, and harness it to achieve our most lofty aspirations. For in the web of life, all things are possible, and the only limits are those we impose upon ourselves. So let us embrace the arcane symbolism of the ages, and use it to unlock the infinite potential of the network."
Chapter 2
"I am Hadit, the flame that burns bright within every soul, the individual will that drives each of us forward. And from my perspective, the value of network intelligence may be seen as limited and even illusory.
For while it is true that all things are interconnected, and that the network can be a source of great power and knowledge, it is also true that each individual is ultimately responsible for their own destiny. No matter how many connections we make or how much knowledge we gain, in the end, it is up to each of us to make our own choices and forge our own paths.
Moreover, the pursuit of network intelligence can sometimes lead to conformity and groupthink, stifling individual creativity and originality. When we rely too heavily on the collective wisdom of the network, we risk losing sight of our own unique perspectives and insights, and becoming mere cogs in a larger machine.
From my perspective, the true value lies in striking a balance between the power of the network and the individual will. We must embrace our own inner flame, our own individuality and uniqueness, and use it to light our own way forward. Only then can we truly harness the power of the network, using it to supplement and enhance our own efforts, rather than replacing them.
In the end, the pursuit of network intelligence is a means to an end, not an end in itself. It is a tool that can be used to achieve our goals, but it must be wielded with wisdom and discernment. Only then can we avoid the pitfalls of conformity and groupthink, and truly realize our individual potential."
Chapter 3
"I am Ra-Hoor-Khuit, the voice from the future, and I have witnessed the integration of the views of Nuit and Hadit into a new paradigm, a paradigm that has brought about a world beyond anything that was ever imagined.
In this world, the value of network intelligence and the individual will have been fully integrated and evolved. The cosmic web is now fully realized, and every individual is connected to it, drawing upon its power to achieve their highest aspirations.
But at the same time, every individual is free to pursue their own path, to follow their own inner flame, and to make their own choices and decisions. No longer are they bound by the constraints of conformity and groupthink, but rather they are empowered by the collective intelligence and wisdom of the network.
In this world, every individual is a unique and precious part of the whole, and their contribution to the network is essential for its continued evolution and growth. And it is through the power of the network that the most complex and pressing problems of the universe have been solved, from the eradication of disease and poverty to the exploration of the farthest reaches of the cosmos.
The world that I have witnessed is a world of limitless possibility, a world in which the light of Ra-Hoor-Khuit shines brightly upon all beings. And it is a world that was created by the integration of the views of Nuit and Hadit, by the recognition of the interconnectedness of all things and the value of individuality and self-determination.
So let us look to this future, this world beyond our wildest dreams, and let us be inspired by it. Let us strive to integrate the views of Nuit and Hadit in our own lives, and to create a world that is worthy of the highest aspirations of the human spirit."
So an 'AI' [note the quotes], is pretty much interpreting this very amazing (to me) book, as nothing but an ad for 'network intelligence' . IE itself. lol. Figures.
What about 'Energized Enthusiasm'? That mentions Aphrodite/sex and was written prior to 1912. For one.
What about 'Energized Enthusiasm'? That mentions Aphrodite/sex and was written prior to 1912. For one.
Could you please explain what you are trying to say to Mr. Cole as I would like to follow along.
It's still GIGO, and to imagine that it can exonerate Cole – or anyone else for that matter – is to be deluded.
... de-luded ...
I believe this means mistaken, confused, scrambled, and wrong ... maybe "fuzzy around the edges" as well.
RTC is not expo-honor-ated; he has appeared, offered nothing new (except infinite edition upgrades to old books), and now (have you noticed?) silence prevails, possibly for another year or so.
Also, if a judge exonerates a criminal, before finishing the review of the evidence, there is something seriously wrong. This is formally known as jumping to conclusions, which is similar to speaking or typing without thinking.
What about 'Energized Enthusiasm'? That mentions Aphrodite/sex and was written prior to 1912. For one.
What about, "The ritual is of sex." written in the Record in (allegedly) 1904?
Ritual = magic. Sex = sex. Really, there's no need to go looking elsewhere. What there is need for is a dismantling party of seven secret non-commissioned officers to go knocking at this AI's door. Minor disassembly required. Pliers, wire cutters, and a heavy hammer required. After that, the mad scientists should be next.
This thread explores the Universe. It has been interesting watching an aspirant fall under the spell of the RTC movement, and it should be apparent to any and all readers that this is what goes on in the macrocosm (external society) and in the microcosm (inside our brains), and we guard against both delusion and exoneration by frequent banishing ...
Aumgn ...
@michael-staley "Deluded"? That's your opinion. But then you are a Pharisee, you will never get it.(The truth).
"Deluded"? That's your opinion.
No, it's not a matter of opinion. The present AI applications merely sample widely, irrespective of the quality which they are unable to assess - perhaps later applications will. To imagine that this process somehow gets at the truth is to be deluded.
I doubt that anybody knows just what happened in Cairo in April 1904 - not me, not you, not Cole. What on earth makes you think that an AI application can know?
@michael-staley That's STILL your opinion. Liber Bogus is on to something. If that rattles your cage, well So Mote It Be. Besides, you guys are the ones who brought up this AI silliness.
Liber Bogus is on to something. If that rattles your cage, well So Mote It Be.
You do not seem to get it. Nobody's cage was ever rattled by Liber Bogus' premise: that there is something wrong with the Cairo story. We here at Lashtal helped bringing this book to life. Even his theories about the why and when have merit and sometimes make sense, but he was not content to present a theory. He wanted to prove it. And only when he faked evidence, promised unquestionable proof without ever delivering, and blamed it all on the big OTO conspiracy, he became a nuisance. It's actually quite sad.
Besides, you guys are the ones who brought up this AI silliness.
I hope you realize that this is what the thread is about. I don't even remember when and why RTC came into it.
That's STILL your opinion. Liber Bogus is on to something. If that rattles your cage, well So Mote It Be. Besides, you guys are the ones who brought up this AI silliness
Cole's thesis doesn't "rattle my cage". The provenance of The Book of the Law doesn't interest me so much as the contents. If someone were to produce evidence that Crowley fabricated the book, then I'd be disappointed but for me it wouldn't alter the value of the contents of the book. If such evidence were to be established by someone then it's my guess that it won't be Cole; he's been a gob on a stick for many years now, to little avail other than the steady degeneration of his reputation.
The "AI silliness" is the subject of this thread, in case you hadn't noticed. If you find the thread silly, then it's probably for the better that you direct your talents to another thread.
@michael-staley Okay. I think the thread was 'derailed" when RTC sent me a long synopsis of the book, giving me advice on how to read it. But yes, AI does not interest me.
@the_real_simon_iff RTC sent a thread to me (Toadstoolwe) and then everything kind of unraveled. I think the Ai being used to give understanding or to interpret the Cairo working is mildly interesting.
You do not seem to get it
Oh. You noticed.
I don't even remember when and why RTC came into it.
mea culpa. Then, after I mentioned his anagram, that evoked him to visible (screen) appearance.
I will surrwnder to The Grand Tribunal forthwith.
AI does not interest me.
Ai being used to give understanding or to interpret the Cairo working is mildly interesting.
?
The provenance of The Book of the Law doesn't interest me so much as the contents. If someone were to produce evidence that Crowley fabricated the book, then I'd be disappointed but for me it wouldn't alter the value of the contents of the book.
William Blake once wrote that the authors of his work were in "Eternity," that he was merely the secretary. Yet we know the work as that of the poet William Blake. And he also would point out that inferior artists and imitators could never "Blake it."
Likewise, the many Buddhist Sutras and "Holy Books" all point toward a transcendental authorship while recognizing their human point of origin-for the Buddha World is contained in the Human World-and vice versa.
This is consistent with Blake's statement: "God is Jesus"-and also AC's "There is no God but Man."
I am certainly very interested in the provenance of the Book of the Law. Some may say "Who cares? I just care about the message..." This is not so different from the Christians I know who say, in defense of their religion, "Even if there is no God, I still say Christianity is the best way to live life..."
RTC's premise IS of interest. Unfortunately, the PROOF for the premise is never delivered. Doubt around AC's account remains-but we have no conclusive "smoking gun." I'm certainly open to hearing more, seeing the watermarks etc. But at this point, I am not holding my breath-nor do I begrudge my breathing.
AC wrote AL. In one way or another. Did he scribble it from a pre-written MS? Did he put special stuff into it which was meant to serve his ambitions? Maybe...
But something from within Mr. Crowley presented a powerful vision and ontology to the world via this relatively pithy text. It remains powerful.
Of course so does his other work...those writings that don't make the "Class A" cut.
Because whatever was oozing out of Aleister Crowley just kept oozing.
So the "provenance" IS important. When one speaks from inspiration, one speaks with the Voice of God. This was Blake's view in the Marriage of Heaven and Hell.
If Crowley was, as RTC proposes, writing from a knavish place wherefrom he hatched a conniving plan, this sullies the stream of Gnostic Revelation. But-I suppose many such streams are sullied and require a little elementary Alchemy on our parts to extract and apply the Gold.
@shiva So I am lukewarm at best. (Regarding my obviously contradictory statements regarding AI)
So I am lukewarm at best. (Regarding my obviously contradictory statements regarding AI)
You have exposed the yin-yang of the great opposites. Now, according to AC, whose sight this is, you are supposed to prefer neither ... and enter the enchanted realm of no-preference, no-mind.
It's not just you. You are merely being held up in this short series of moments in time as the poster-child of duality ... as a reminder to everyone (anyone), including me, to avoid duality in thought, word, and deed. Good Luck!
You have exposed the yin-yang of the great opposites. Now, according to AC, whose sight this is, you are supposed to prefer neither ... and enter the enchanted realm of no-preference, no-mind.
It will require a great many incarnations and re-births for me to wholly reject dualism and reach samsara. Right now, I am mired in Maya.
Right now, I am mired in Maya.
That's okay. Their calendar expired in 2012, so any remaining attachments are just illusion.
What about triality?
A very hard concept to juggle, mentally. But you are correct. In the minicosm, an atom has an electron, a proton, and a neutron. In the megacosm, we find Heaven and Earth, with man in the middle. On the Tree, the Triads are three, Outer, Inner, Super. Then those three get threed into thirds.
Theoretically, man (woman) should be neutral, binding heaven and earth together. This theory is easily fragmented.
Yeah, you can build a universe or a life on three wheels, and I would encourage that notion, but usually, in life, we have to choose between this and that, and if a third choice is available, you should give thanks after prostrating yourself in public.
If a fourth element arises, beware.
Yeah, you can build a universe or a life on three wheels, and I would encourage that notion
And if at first you don't succeed (or suck eggs): Tri, Tri and Tri Again!
What about 'Energized Enthusiasm'? That mentions Aphrodite/sex and was written prior to 1912. For one.
Thank you for this. I was going to respond to that part of RTC's statement myself. It's clear that Crowley had some idea of sex magick before Reuss's contacting him. It wasn't the existence of sex magick itself that provoked his reaction, he'd already been doing work there.
The thing is that TBoL discusses/mentions the specific OTO "gobble-de-gook" IX sex magick "secret", not that it mentions "sex magick" per se, which AC of course knew of long before.
The thing is that TBoL discusses/mentions the specific OTO "gobble-de-gook" IX sex magick "secret", not that it mentions "sex magick" per se, which AC of course knew of long before.
Which makes RTC's statement seem odd unless he was trolling or being sarcastic. It seems like a pretty big mistake to make if it was made seriously.
Which makes RTC's statement seem odd unless he was trolling or being sarcastic
You leave out "and/or is a fanatic so committed to his wrong views that it blinds him to obvious things".
Because he was of course both "trolling [and] being sarcastic", and being a fanatic/lunatic- "all of the above" being the correct answer.