Home Forums Thelema Thelema 0* – Minerval

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  • #99858

    PsychedelicGOD
    Participant

    93

    Good evening Brothers and Sisters!

    I have a deep question about 0* Minerval

    Crowley said (and I forget exactly where) that no man/woman ever needs to ascend past Minerval as all of the secrets lie within

    Can anyone go deeper on his theory on this?

    Thank you!

    93 93/93

    #99859

    Shiva
    Participant

    It has been my experience that in ANY system, one only needs the first step in order to initiate the entire, subsequent process.

    However, this usually requires the first degree (of any system), and (for example) a Probationary degree in A.’.A.’. is not usually adequate. As far as Minerval in OTO, I have no idea if this is true; my experience indicates that it is not, probably due to the fact that OTO is a religious, fraternal Order, and not a teaching Order.

    OTO is set up to teach one thing: The sublime, mysterious secret of the ninth degree. Everything descends from, and depends upon, that “secret.”

    Well, anybody can get ahold of that secret today by consulting the Borg (Google is the Borg), so why even take the Minerval? Maybe for social, fraternal reasons.

    All the grand benefits of admission to the Oriental Templars (dwelling in Profess Houses, free medical, dental, legal and child care, etc) have been removed by the current org, and do not reflect AC’s original purpose.

    On the other hand, in AC’s last note to Germer was a P.S. that said, “The Profess House system will not work. You have you find some other way to bring in the new age.”

    #99866

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    Crowley said (and I forget exactly where) that no man/woman ever needs to ascend past Minerval as all of the secrets lie within
    I think maybe you’ve probably come across part of something but not the whole thing, PsychedelicGOD (groovy name)? The Minerval (Oº) is preparatory to the First Degree (Iº), intended to begin the onset of a gestatory period of growth and reflection which nine months later would bear fruit and further entail the candidate’s “irreversible” commitment to the order. Some people prefer to do Minerval and First on the same day, initiators allowing. Up to them. (And yet A.C also remarked, that even from within the lowly ranks of a Minerval it was possible for an Outer Head of the Order, or Frater Superior, to emerge in the event of something so mundane, profane and distasteful as a leadership contest. This seems utterly unlikely and unrealistic in the extreme though, and is another example of A.C. sometimes getting carried away with things, I feel.)

    Maybe you actually recollect A.C. saying something more like, everything needful lay within the range of the “man of Earth” triad (which is effectively Iº – IIIº, and where the IVº is regarded as a pendant to the Third), and to which every wo/man had an “indefeasible right” — do you think you could have come across something more like that?

    As for the Sex Secrets of the Black Magicians Exposed (after Ramsay Dukes), these aren’t even hinted at in Crowley’s recension of the O.T.O. until you get to the VIIº (and if you’re in the Caliphornian “O.T.O.”, you’re likely to be waiting a hell of a long time until your face fits enough & you’re invited in for that, paying dues merrily the while which go to constitute the Caliph’s personal piggy bank.)

    If you’ve not come across it before, you may find my piece on “The O.T.O. — Its Relevance Today” (written c. 1995) resourceful, intended as the final Chapter to the authorised (by Francis King) 2nd edition of Secret Rituals of the O.T.O., which you can find here as a Blog (although without all the typographical features),

    N Joy

    #100017

    PsychedelicGOD
    Participant

    93

    Yes I read both of your articles in regards to the “Current OTO” and think they are excellent & I enjoyed both immensely and learned a lot! Bravo to you good Sir!

    I have found this link from the William Blake Lodge:

    MD, DC, No VA Thelema and Magick

    Baltimore, MD
    207 Members

    Dear Visitor,Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.This group is for people interested in Thelema, initiation, ceremonial magick, fraternity, free thought and othe…

    Check out this Meetup Group →

    Q. After I take my Minerval, will I be expected to take the First Degree initiation?

    A. No. First Degree makes one formally a member of Ordo Templi Orientis and a permanent magical bond is forged. Taking the First Degree initiation is a serious decision, and no Minerval should feel pushed into it.

      Furthermore, it is said that all the secrets of the OTO system are contained in the Minerval degree.

    Some take their First right away, some after many years, and it is equally honorable to spend your entire life as a Minerval initiate. The choice is entirely yours.

    I know I have heard this elsewhere still in regards to specfically the Minerval 0* – I don’t know if it was from my local chapter or something I read in Liber IV perhaps?

    I was always leery of getting my I* and creating a magickal bond with the order, but now I have deep and genuine interest in the entire Man of Earth Triad – but sadly that may never happen in this lifetime now for reasons I don’t want to go into publicly.

    I’m surprised no one else has given any input on this?

    93 93/93

    #100021

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    I’m surprised no one else has given any input on this?

    Why?

    #100022

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    I’m surprised no one else has given any input on this?
    Why?

    You might possibly have noticed that Michael is very fond of coming out with his terse, probing interrogatory questions but is not always so quick at responding to some of them when he’s back on the receiving end again and the (jack) boot is placed on t’other foot!

    Yes I read both of your articles in regards to the “Current OTO” and think they are excellent & I enjoyed both immensely and learned a lot! Bravo to you good Sir!
    Thank you, your PsychedelicGODliness.  That is much more like it — take note, this is just the sort of feedback of which I approve, people!  Bring it on, further please.

    “Furthermore, it is said that all the secrets of the OTO system are contained in the Minerval system.” — I know I have heard this elsewhere still in regards to specifically the Minerval 0* …
    I am a bit wary of this “it is said” : it could mean anything.  Dame Rumour with her wagging tongue has even been known to disguise and daub herself in the lurid make-up of those very same words, which have concealed away many a misconception.  It would greatly help to know where, when & in what capacity and context this particular assertion was made, as well as from whom — presumably it’s from A.C., or else I don’t know what legitimacy it would possibly have?  The only other thing I can think of is that it may be a metaphorical way of referring to Liber Legis, the scroll or Volume of the Sacred Law which is ceremonially presented to the candidate during the course of the ritual, and may be said to “contain everything you need” in the sense of unlocking all the secret mysteries of the present aeon.  (Or so we are informed by A.C., anyway.)

    I was always leery of getting my I* and creating a magickal bond with the order,
    You are quite right about being leery about committing.  One thing you (or indeed anyone else in your position) would definitely need to bear in mind would be that you would now, since the initiation rituals themselves have been tinkered around with by the current leadership, be committing and swearing a loyal oath of fealty towards Hymenaeus Beta in person himself. Previously it was towards Baphomet, whom you can interpret as A.C., or the magical egregore of the O.T.O. (as I do), or whatever else you understood by the term — Do what thou wilt and all that. 

    The C[aliphornian] O.T.O. a.k.a. O.T.O. Inc. is by no means the same thing as Aleister Crowley’s O.T.O., which a sizeable consensus has since deemed to have died out with Karl Germer, if not Crowley himself. As a result of litigation in 2008, there is only one O.T.O. anymore — or more correctly, only one group which in certain countries is legally ALLOWED to call itself the O.T.O. these days (and I must just remark, credit where it’s due, that the Typhonian O.T.O. have actually taken that situation with commendable sang-froid on their part). So if you did want to join the One True Order by name only (and rarely is there a case more revealing to be the mere letter rather than the specific spirit of the Law, as it were), then that’s the one to which you would be ‘permanently’ committed (unless you were to ‘resign’ from it, of course). 

    Choose ye well!
    N Joy

    #100025

    PsychedelicGOD
    Participant

    Well Michael, I feel LAShTAL is an amazing resource of like minded individuals who have become gurus in the teachings an knowledge of Sir Aleister Crowley, the O.T.O. & The A.A. So I was hoping to get some real insight and understanding from those of you that have already cracked the code that AC cracked initially and reformulated for the new Aeon.

    For the record the concepts of KG and the T.O. intrigue me to the fullest, I plan on doing some research and reading of his books and will be reaching out to you at some point in the future to talk to you more directly about being an Initiate of the T.O.

    That is an interesting point Jamie and I would have much preferred the Oath to still mention/mean Baphomet like my 0* Oath did.

    I will say this, it can not be denied that for HB to still reign Supreme after 30 years is quite impressive and goes to show you that the Secret Chiefs are directing the Outer Order as they see fit with curriculum and HB as the O.H.O.

    At this point it’s been such a long and hard 30 years of his reign, I don’t see what would change things (apart from HB death)

    The C.O.T.O. is all that we seem to have here in the US and they do seem to be doing a good job of at least keeping the 93 Current alive, regardless of the politics of the Highest & most Inner Order of the O.T.O.

    #100026

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    Well Michael, I feel LAShTAL is an amazing resource of like minded individuals who have become gurus in the teachings and knowledge of Sir Aleister Crowley, the O.T.O. & The A.A. So I was hoping to get some real insight and understanding from those of you that have already cracked the code that AC cracked initially and reformulated for the new Aeon.

    I’ve been a member of LAShTAL since 2004, and there’s been quite a change in discussion over the years. A higher proportion of the active membership seemed then to be actively interested in the O.T.O. than is now the case, so a topic such as this one would have been more widely discussed. The rise of social media means that Facebook pages such as ‘Thelema’ are the focus of much of this discussion.

    I have a love of ritual magic, though I don’t use robes, weapons, etc. I’ve not been through the grade rituals of the O.T.O., and they’ve never interested me very much. However, a few friends of mine are long-standing members of the O.T.O. and consider that the grade rituals are very effective.

    Grant created grade rituals for New Isis Lodge, though these weren’t perpetuated in the Typhonian O.T.O. The rituals and grade exercises survive amongst his papers, and I hope to experiment with them in the not-too-distant future.

    As for having “cracked the code”, it’s a matter of having pursued certain interests across the years; of taking inspiration from a variety of sources and distilling from it insight through the catalyst of magical and mystical experience. My principal sources have been, for instance, the works of Grant, Spare and Crowley; of Ch’an Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta.

    It’s all – as they say – in the egg.

    #100028

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    So I was hoping to get some real insight and understanding from those of you that have already cracked the code that AC cracked initially and reformulated for the new Aeon.
    It sounds promising but I’m not quite sure what you mean by the cracking of which code and its reformulation here.

    That is an interesting point Jamie and I would have much preferred the Oath to still mention/mean Baphomet like my 0* Oath did.
    I expect we’re not the only ones who feel like that, but what can anyone do.  And what does it entail, exactly, if anything?  As far as I know, he’s never made use of this Oath.  But say if he were to go nuts, freak out & become barmy of all of a sudden, couldn’t he at least in theory command all his minions to go out and rob banks, shoot people or spill the beans on their innermost private secrets in the name of their Oaths and they’d have no choice but to go along? 

    I will say this, it can not be denied that for HB to still reign Supreme after 30 years is quite impressive
    I do not find this at all impressive; HB became head honcho at around the fairly young age of 30 so it’s simply a matter of his just staying alive and hanging on in there — at present there is no indication of him wishing to step down and making way for anyone else or somebody that wouldn’t also be in his image (for example, the five Xth degrees he created and who have sworn loyalty to him & presumably his way of going about things). 

    and goes to show you that the Secret Chiefs are directing the Outer Order as they see fit with curriculum and HB as the O.H.O
    Similarly, it’s hard to tell the motivation of the Secret Chiefs, indeed whether such exotic creatures ultimately exist at all or whether they might just be a mental fabrication in the Crowley universe (all right, ye pedants, I know they were mentioned in the Golden Dawn but you get my drift).  This might all be a question of que sera sera, since the highly secretive Chiefs of the GWB certainly don’t seem to have tangibly interceded in the affairs of mortals and specifically in the later life of their Prophet much to ensure the perpetuation of Thelema which is surely in their interests, have they?  If they’re so all-powerful as is suggested, why make things so darned difficult? (=the same as the old “does God exist” argument in another guise)

    At this point it’s been such a long and hard 30 years of his reign, I don’t see what would change things (apart from HB death)
    Yes, a hard reign’s gonna fall!  Being in his early 60s now, barring an early terminal illness HB could be around for another twenty or so years yet for his golden anniversary.  Hoorah!?

    The C.O.T.O. is all that we seem to have here in the US
    Really?  Is there no sign of the Motta offshoots anymore anywhere (specifically David Bersson’s continuation of the S.O.T.O. or else Ray Eales’ H.O.O.R. (the Holy Order Of RaHoorKhuit)?  Have they finally succeeded in managing to extinguish all Thelemic opposition??

    and they do seem to be doing a good job of at least keeping the 93 Current alive, regardless of the politics of the Highest & most Inner Order of the O.T.O.
    I am afraid I have to emphatically disagree here; since HB has been in charge the membership numbers have hardly grown at all and certainly not to the extent some of the “most Inner Order” would have hoped!  Also, how many new IXth degrees — surely one of the main criteria of “success is your proof” — have been created in all that time?  Not even double figures in over thirty years, a shameful legacy.  Meanwhile their (re)publishing programme in the last decade seems to have collapsed and imploded.  And not to mention changing the wording of Class A texts in the whole kill/fill debacle! I would argue that Lashtal has probably done just as much in terms of keeping the 93 Current alive, even though that might not be one of its (main) objectives and certainly not one of its avowed intentions (or at least, not nowadays).

    (Not) in the name of the unholy All-Powerful Trinity of Facebook, Google & Amazon,
    N Joy

    #100035

    Shiva
    Participant

    PsyG: The C.O.T.O. is all that we seem to have here in the US

    Without thinking, I can name six (6) A.’.A.’. orgs that are operative in the USA; they all maintain the 93 current. “Seem to” is like “It is said .

    #100130

    PsychedelicGOD
    Participant

    93

    Michael – I also agree, I love and am totally fascinated with ritual magick, although I tend to find myself studying more than actual performing. I just don’t have a proper area or privacy to really practice any type of ceremonial/ritual magick at this time. I have grandiose ideas of the private temple I would like to build myself, but that is probably a few years out still at this point in my life. (I’m 35 for the record)

    Jamie – I’m amazed that HB became O.H.O. at such a young age! I’m sure there was some inside politics/crony capitalism, but was he also just that advanced for his age and during the time of the O.T.O. fading out?

    And I would have to say I’m just not as familiar as these other groups/organizations you mentioned that have broken off or continued a linage. I know finding the O.T.O. in my local area was a big plus of me joining with them. They were/are an amazing group of Magicians and the rituals they perform seemed to be very well done & powerful.

    I’ve never felt anything like I felt the way walking out of the Gnostic Mass with this group – the feeling of the power/energy radiating off of me – it shook me to my core, it was so different and so strong. Like nothing I’ve ever felt before.

    Alas that chapter of my life in the C.O.T.O. seems to be behind me now, for reasons I don’t want to discuss publicly. But needless to say my hunger for knowledge, information and ritual has not gone away and in fact has only been rekindled these last few weeks and months, making me want to dive back into it, deeper than ever.

    Shiva – I’ve also done more reach on the A.’.A.’. as of recently, it’s always sparked my interest when I first heard about it years ago. As much as I love & need group work, I understand the nature of consciousness, mysticism & magick is a very personal and deep, mysterious matter and different for every person, regardless of what you study.

    But as interested in the A.’.A.’. that I am, I don’t feel any where close to being ready to approach the group and try to become an initiate yet, I have too much of the curriculum left to read and digest/understand before giving it a real go. I don’t want to fuck up my one and only shot by not being prepared enough.

    So setting these 6 A.’.A.’. lineages aside, and not including the C.O.T.O. – what other O.T.O. offshoots are worth looking deeper into? What other ones have multiple local bodies across the country that would make it easy to do physical work with? As mentioned ceremonial/ritual work is one of my most interested aspects of magick and learning in a group setting seems to work best for my brain and learning ability. I also feel that the teachings of Aleister Crowley & the O.T.O. are the most advance form of understanding what consciousness really is, how to access multiple dimensions/planes and interact with entities that do exist & what/where we come from and who/what really is GOD.

    I should also note again, even though I wasn’t super active at my temple, I really enjoyed having access to my local chapter, because it was so close (15 minute drive) and had an amazing group of magicians to help guide and teach me (even though I know O.T.O. is not a teaching order, my local group still did an amazing job of holding workshops and trying to teach ritual magick & Thelema.

    Two of the groups that really have gotten my attention and obsessive interest in as of lately with my new rekindling of interest, I’m fascinated by Grant’s work and exploration with the T.O. and the concept of multiple dimensions and the entities that inhabit them. Also James Eshelman’s work with the T.O.T & C.O.T. has really struck a cord as well and I am going to be reaching out to them soon too. I like how the homosexual rites have been striped out of Grant’s work. While I feel to each their own, this exploration and experimentation of this kind of sex magick is of no interest to me personally – regardless of the mysteries I won’t discover lol

    I’ve been lurking over on the T.O.T. board for a couple of weeks now, but haven’t made a profile to introduce myself and begin discussion, but it’s at the top of my agenda.

    I just never feel ready and so overwhelmed by the amount of information there is to read and then retain. I also seem to have a terrible issue with my memory and that’s one of the major struggles I’ve always had with magick. Oh what I wouldn’t give for a photographic memory!!

    I’ve tried many “smart drugs” to help improve the focus & memory aspects of my brain, including a few different nootropics & alot of LSD. Nootropics is something that to me, is so subtle it’s basically un-noticiable even though it is taken in daily doses (and I would also go as high in the dose that I could) whereas LSD is like being a Jumper into a Stargate and allowed to access other dimensions of vision & thought in one sitting it’s so powerful.

    I’ve experimented with a lot of different drugs in my life and all of them seem like candy from a pez dispenser compared to psychedelics.

    I have recently discovered Modafinil and it’s ability to increase cognitive function, memory retention/recall & also is NOT an amphetamine – which I HATE and no amphetamine should be considered a smart drug like some others are. I’ve tried adderall and also meth itself, and while I do enjoy the high that they can bring once in a while (and I prefer meth over adderall) and it does help me focus, I feel there are too many negatives for me to try a continuous cycle with these types of drugs.

    Now Modafinil on the other hand is a completely different story and is been nicknamed the “Limitless” pill – even if the effects are 10% of what that movie offered, I greatly look forward to its effects on me & using it in conjunction with my next series of magickal research and study.

    I would also like to add that LAShTAL.com has been an amazing tool for research & study of A.C. & Thelema. I’ve really enjoyed the insight, experience & understanding that the series members bring to the discussion.

    93 93/93

    #100138

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    93

    Jamie – I’m amazed that HB became O.H.O. at such a young age! I’m sure there was some inside politics/crony capitalism, but was he also just that advanced for his age and during the time of the O.T.O. fading out?
    Well I don’t know about that – in my view it’s more a case of his just happening to be in the right place at the right time, at a time in the early 80s when there were a lot less people involved in that “scene”.  He also tried to get involved in Grant and Motta’s versions of the O.T.O. as well, but switched over to the Caliphornians when he thought he’d be able to advance quicker there, which he did by making himself  invaluable to Grady McMurtry in terms of getting Crowley out (the Holy Books of Thelema being a forestaste of what was to come).  His election to the office of Caliph was more as a compromise candidate than as the truly favoured, and where unlike the others he was a IVth rather than a IXth degree.

    There is almost inevitably a degree of inside politics/ crony capitalism, as you put it – it seems inevitable and goes with the territory whenever there are groups comprising of more than two or three people and which A.C. recognised as “the old trouble” (and which was why he tried to prevent it with the A.’. A.’.)..

    I know finding the O.T.O. in my local area was a big plus of me joining with them. They were/are an amazing group of Magicians and the rituals they perform seemed to be very well done & powerful. …even though I know O.T.O. is not a teaching order, my local group still did an amazing job of holding workshops and trying to teach ritual magick & Thelema
    It’s good that you found a compatible bunch of people  to work  with — that always helps and is a big plus.  I was involved with the London group of the (C).O.T.O. for over seven years and certainly the individuals I met in the order were, on the whole, a stirling bunch of brothers and sisters.  But this in itself highlights the fact that the order (and the E.G.C.) nowadays is not much more than a social club — fair enough on its own terms, and it satisfies a deep-seated human need for belonging I suppose, but is not altogether satisfying if you’re looking for a magickal organization per se and certainly not one having that rather unique savoir-faire we are all idealistically searching for (like Throbbing Gristle do on the fourth cut of their ‘Mission of Dead Souls’!?) 

    I’ve never felt anything like I felt the way walking out of the Gnostic Mass with this group – the feeling of the power/energy radiating off of me – it shook me to my core, it was so different and so strong. Like nothing I’ve ever felt before.
    It is always imperative to discriminate between what you may be suggesting to yourself, which will colour your perceptions & programming without you necessarily knowing anything about it, and what may really be happening.  Not always easy to detect.

    I just never feel ready and so overwhelmed by the amount of information there is to read and then retain. I also seem to have a terrible issue with my memory and that’s one of the major struggles I’ve always had with magick. Oh what I wouldn’t give for a photographic memory!!
    One thing we all have to content ourselves with is that we will never be able to read, look at, listen to, watch, whatever we would like to in our lifetime.  There is just far too much and the amount is increasing virtually exponentially all the time.  If you believe in a divinely ordered and determined Plan, or in synchronicity, then you can content yourself with the thought that you will only come across what you are meant to come across, and if you seem to miss anything —- well, then that was just meant to be.  If you don’t believe there is any such esoterick meaning to any thing attached, you’ll just have to get by the best you can and try not to let it disturb you that much without going nuts.  (It can be done!)

    … the concept of multiple dimensions and the entities that inhabit them.
    I’ve tried … I’ve recently discovered … I have recently experiment with…

    In this connection, with your multifarious psychedelick sweetshop of experiences might you have had any dealings/ experimented with the strictly non-pez DMT or jimson weed?

    But as interested in the A.’.A.’. that I am, I don’t feel any where close to being ready to approach the group and try to become an initiate yet, I have too much of the curriculum left to read and digest/understand before giving it a real go. I don’t want to fuck up my one and only shot by not being prepared enough.
    Why have you conditioned and limited yourself to believe this (“fuck up my one and only shot”)?  Also, you didn’t say whether you had or not, but if you’ve signed the Probationer’s Oath of intent that usually acts as a catalyst for… something..

    93 93/93,
    N Joy

    #100150

    PsychedelicGOD
    Participant

    It is always imperative to discriminate between what you may be suggesting to yourself, which will colour your perceptions & programming without you necessarily knowing anything about it, and what may really be happening. Not always easy to detect.

    I completely agree & understand what you are saying. But I had 0 expectations going in – I’ve been to Catholic church my whole life and have never felt anything like this before, nor have I felt it since the last time I was at the Gnostic Mass, probably a few years now.

    If you believe in a divinely ordered and determined Plan, or in synchronicity, then you can content yourself with the thought that you will only come across what you are meant to come across, and if you seem to miss anything —- well, then that was just meant to be.

    I completely agree actually.

    In this connection, with your multifarious psychedelick sweetshop of experiences might you have had any dealings/ experimented with the strictly non-pez DMT or jimson weed?

    What exactly is non-pez? I’m not familiar with that term? And I have never tried jimson weed, but I would probably be up for it lol. I do smoke cannabis daily & I’ve smoked a bunch of high grade Salvia extracts too.

    DMT however, I am quite familiar with lol. I was able to experiment with it alot about 8+ years ago mayabe? I did an extraction on some Mimosa Hostillis Rootbark I ordered online from South America. Funny thing is, now that I think about it, it was exactly this same time that I discovered Aleister Crowley. Talk about synchronicity. My best friend and I smoked it for like 3 days straight non-stop, as much as we could. Some how during all of that inter-dimensional madness, we found the deepest door to the occult/secrets of the universe and my life has never been the same since now that I think about it lol.

    My experiences were good, they weren’t stellar. The problem is, in the form it is in to smoke it, this shit is so harsh it literally tastes, smells and makes you choke like your smoking a big piece of plastic. The smell of DMT in the air is to me what the smell of crack is in the air to others, a smell I surely will never forget.

    Because of it’s harshness, I always felt I wasn’t able to get a large enough dose to fully send me through the veil. The shit is so rough and tastes so bad. What’s crazy is that when you smoke meth it tastes and feels like water vapor, it also really has no odor. It’s actually quite easy to smoke, DMT & Salvia were both on the harsh side of the scale for sure. Salvia just makes you so retarded, you become a Salvador Dali painting for like 47 seconds, and then you’re back. But it hits you so hard you can’t even experience what the hell is going on. This issue I was having could also be attributed to me always buying the highest strength & quality extracts I could find lol.

    One time I did have a break-thru though, but only briefly. I immediately entered an unknown, but fractal-type world and had a female entity(s) approach me, something about them was associated with a snake, can’t remember if that’s what came and grabbed me or if that was their hair or what, I forget exactly. I will say that it was not a scary experience at all and I felt quite at peace as this entity interacted with me. When she grabbed onto me. she started to pull me into the Stargate in a way that I never experienced before, it was so weird. But then the curtain closed and it all fizzled out. It is still in the top couple of mystical experiences I’ve ever had while on psychedelics.

    I still have a bunch of it left actually, although it has probably degraded some over the last few years, which means I would have to smoke a bunch more than normal if I wanted to try it out again bleh. I should have converted it to a salt and then it could have lasted forever. I should pull it out and give the ol’ gas pedal a crank down and see what I can get myself into. I have been eating a bunch of high grade acid this last year or so. Having some of the most amazing visions & experiences of my entire life.

    I really want to experience DMT the right way, which to me would be via Ayahuasca. The brew just consists of 2 main ingridients, DMT and a 2nd component that shuts off an enzyme in your stomach that would normally destroy the DMT molecule when taken orally. I’ve even had the 2nd component in my possession for years and could have make it any time, but alas, for some reason I just never did. I actually still think I have jars full of the 2nd component, which for me I went traditional & it is Syrian Rue seeds. I would also like to possibly save this for a Mexico trip with a real Shaman in the jungle.

    Why have you conditioned and limited yourself to believe this (“fuck up my one and only shot”)? Also, you didn’t say whether you had or not, but if you’ve signed the Probationer’s Oath of intent that usually acts as a catalyst for… something.

    I just know I haven’t read 90% of the literature and if/when I give it a serious go, I want to be ready and do my best and take it very seriously. And I’m no where even comfortable with giving it a go right now in my life. Hell I don’t know if I’ll ever be ready. And who knows what my “true” grade really might already be. I am a Wizard with or without an Order. I just know things. I just feel things. Things that I can’t shake and know to my core is true.

    One of my main problems is my brain is ruined from all of this digital media and it’s so damn hard for me to bury my head in a book any more. And I hate reading books online, go figure lol. On top of that I’m sure I have ADD like crazy and just can’t read more than a chapter (if I’m lucky) at a time. I am looking forward to trying a cycle of that Modafinil soon though in hopes of increased brain cognition and memory retention/recall.

    Well that’s probably enough bibble babble out of me for today, it’s getting late for me (early for day walkers lol) and I haven’t slept in a couple of days & the walls are starting to breath & melt & I’m not on acid lol so I think I’m going to try and lay down and get a few hours of sleep.

    Good day Sirs.

    93 93/93

    #100152

    Shiva
    Participant

    PsyG: One of my main problems is my brain is ruined from all of this digital media

    Yes. I have tried to warn the world about this, but it isn’t listening. The problem used to be newspapers; those were banned at Cefalu. But now newsprint is going obsolete and the Borg-screen has become the new addiction. How can anyone perform the Great Work when they’re texting and chatting all day?

    #100161

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    @shiva :

    Yes. I have tried to warn the world about this, but it isn’t listening. The problem used to be newspapers; those were banned at Cefalu. But now newsprint is going obsolete and the Borg-screen has become the new addiction. How can anyone perform the Great Work when they’re texting and chatting all day?
    But Shiva, haven’t you gotten rid of nearly all your physical books and replaced virtually every one of them with digital versions?  You may have tried to warn the world, yet yourself succumb to the ol’ Borg-screen: doesn’t that all rather speak of “physician, heal thyself”?
    On a variation of going to hell in a handbasket, perhaps there’ll be an exceptionally large solar flare or electromagnetic “pulse” on its way soon, which will proceed to fuck everything up good and proper?!

    @psychedelicgod :
    And I’m nowhere even comfortable with giving it a go right now in my life. Hell I don’t know if I’ll ever be ready.
    These are “famous last words”.  Be careful lest you procrastinate yourself into the grave!

    One of my main problems is my brain is ruined from all of this digital media and it’s so damn hard for me …
    You need to mind your language, as Mrs Grundy used to say.  Don’t reinforce negative affirmations & let things become self-fulfilling prophecies!

    I notice we seem to have drifted away from the topic title a little & maybe a lot of this would fit in better on a thread about “Libations” or similar! However…

    What exactly is non-pez? I’m not familiar with that term? 
    The reference was to your comment earlier, “I’ve experimented with a lot of different drugs in my life and all of them seem like candy from a pez dispenser compared to psychedelics.”  Perhaps I ought to have used the word candy instead. 🙂

    And I have never tried jimson weed, but I would probably be up for it lol. …
    That’s a weird one.  (Well I suppose they all are!  “Strange drugs”, that is…).  Incidentally I am not recommending anything to anyone here except the exercise of goodly caution on their part, as quite apart from possible adverse mental health issues, there is Toxicity to consider and one does not want to be on a strictly one-way journey to the cemetery gates.

    I really want to experience DMT the right way, which to me would be via Ayahuasca. … I would also like to possibly save this for a Mexico trip with a real Shaman in the jungle.
    A close family relative of mine recommends this (A) highly. I agree that the best way would be with a real live Shaman in the jungle.  Not many of those to the pound in old London Town (hah!) though I believe some do fly in (nb via aeroplane) for the odd (very odd!) “workshop” here. I used to have an ethnobotanist friend, a proper Terence McKenna type who knew a heck of a lot more about plants, fungal preparations & the like than I do, but unfortunately he is no longer around on this plane and I wouldn’t care to experiment more without a more experienced guide in these matters who really knows what they’re doing, the stakes being high as previously intimated in the last paragraph. Um, discretion prevents me from saying very much more… unlike most here, I don’t have an anonymous avatar to lurk behind and am comparatively buck naked without a beachtowel. I’ve not really tried laboratory engineered smart drugs — unlike plants, they haven’t been around that long and the idea that there hasn’t been any research into long-term possible side effects rather puts me off a little.  I think I’d rather be not quite so smart – even relatively thick – than have some kind of irreversible brain damage!
    And on that cheerful note…
    N Joy

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