Home Forums Thelema Thelema Fulfilling John’s Revelation? – Why?

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  • #114425

    hermitas
    Participant

    First, let me admit there is much I don’t know. This is an honest question. I’d really appreciate answers.

    There *seems* to be a desire on the part of *some* to attempt to supply the essential characters and even to fulfill the prophecy of the Bible found in John’s Revelation.

    Crowley *seems* to have wanted to identify himself with The Great Beast though I’m not certain how literally he hoped to fulfill the prophecy.

    Still others *seem* to want to bring about the coming of the Antichrist.

    (I confess all these emphasized “*seems*” are subjective.)

    So here’s my question. Is there some alternate interpretation of John’s Revelation they are going by? Because if they are hoping to fulfill this prophecy… I mean… The prophecy says they lose in the end. So what *are* these people (if they do indeed exist outside my imagination) hoping to accomplish by fulfilling a losing prophecy?

    Okay.. I’m all ears. Pretend I haven’t heard anything about this before, and you’d be very close to correct.

    Thank you.

    #114426

    ignant666
    Participant

    AC wasn’t allowed any books except the Bible for his entire childhood.

    When he discovered he liked “The Three Evil Kings” (Smo-King, Drin-King, and Fuc-King (or perhaps Wan-King, given his age when he made the joke?)), and his mother called him “The Beast”, he went overboard with the Revelations imagery (thus, for example, Babalon/Babylon) as a framework for understanding his desire for “sin” and “evil”.

    You are right that this seems strange given how Revelations “comes out”. I think all this Biblical stuff is quintessential “Old Aeon” detritus, and abrogate.

    #114428

    belmurru
    Participant

    My first answer, off the cuff, is because “all words are sacred, and all prophets true,” so that the Apocalypse is one of those Aeonic things, not unlike Dee’s work, that has important resonance down the ages.

    Also, per Crowley, the Greek Qabalah is real, no less than the Hebrew, and books like the Apocalypse have plenty to get gematria from.

    #114429

    ignant666
    Participant

    I think, belmurru, hermitas’ point is that Revelations ends with the Antichrist, the Beast (and presumably the the Scarlet Woman riding on the Beast?), and all who bear “the Mark of the Beast” “cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone” (Revelations 19:20). This does not seem like a good thing.

    Then the 144,000 righteous folks who survive all the carnage (dooming almost every Christian who has ever lived), in one of the creepiest bits of the Bible, get to “eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.” (19:18)

    This kind of stuff is why Sunday School used to scare the shit out of me, and i fled to the welcoming embrace of Satan

    #114431

    hermitas
    Participant

    I think, belmurru, hermitas’ point is that Revelations ends with the Antichrist, the Beast (and presumably the the Scarlet Woman riding on the Beast?), and all who bear “the Mark of the Beast” “cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone” (Revelations 19:20). This does not seem like a good thing.

    Yes. Precisely. One correction, however. My fault. The Antichrist is not found in John’s Revelation but in the First and Second Epistles of John. Sorry, it’s been years since I took a serious look at it. And a childhood of conflated interpretations has gotten the better of me.

    Back on subject: I think I remember reading Motta trying to interpret the lake of fire differently – in some glorious sense. But it did certainly seem like he was taking the prophecy in some serious literal sense.

    My problem, however, is that in John’s Revelation the second beast, the beast “out of the earth,” forces worship of The Great Beast.

    I can’t imagine the act of forcing anyone to worship against their will having anything to do with Thelema. “Convert not.” “Man has the right to think as he will.”

    I’d just like to hear some other opinions on this. This perception I have of some hoping for the fulfillment of John’s Revelation, including forcing others to worship The Great Beast, confuses me. It doesn’t make sense.

    Am I just overly perplexed by a few nuts? Or what?

    #114432

    ignant666
    Participant

    Oops, the False Prophet, not the Antichrist, goes into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    Thank you for the correction, hermitas.

    #114433

    Tiger
    Participant

    when i come across such things
    i read it as if perhaps he was the fruit of a gnostic, hermetic, templar, tradition.
    i only know a little and remember less.
    On one occasion of a read it felt like possibly

    he was restoring The seven classical planet pagan deities; ridding the planet of churchianity.
    on an enfant terrible side
    he might have been literally reading the book and doing a ritual to hurry up the process
    and it does get confusing
    Apocalypse – revelation
    A needed Anti Christ for the Second coming
    enochian understanding
    Atu The Aeon
    all fun stuff

    i also hear there is a daniel, enoch old testament Apocalyptic scripture also

    #114434

    hermitas
    Participant

    [exasperation!]
    I can’t fix it.
    These people
    And their dreams.

    Anyway,
    It’s not me.

    They shall chance
    To abide
    In this bliss
    Or no;
    It is no odds.

    As for me
    I Am
    Love
    under
    Will

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  hermitas.
    #114436

    dom
    Participant

    It’s all a load of symbolic(s).

    It’s a step-by-step manual on illumination through laya yoga. ~ Jim Eshelman

    http://www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9587&p=62515&hilit=book+of+revelation#p62515

    Seven Seals as seven chakras etc etc.

    #114437

    hermitas
    Participant

    @dom

    Yes, that is actually the interpretation that I rest on.

    Yet there was Jung’s maxim that what we do not bring into consciousness internally, we project outwardly and create in the world of our experience (paraphrasing). That’s what bothers me – the strong suspicion that eventually someone is going to corrupt something I want to preserve incorruptible.

    Alright, thanks for letting me express all that. Guess I needed to.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  hermitas.
    #114439

    Shiva
    Participant

    b: all words are sacred, and all prophets true ,,,

    save only that they understand a little

    Aiwass seems to feel that these “other” words and profits [see below] have a general understanding, but lack the whole [holy] picture.

    Now, let me give you the Frater Shiva version of the interpretation of The Revelation of John. This interpretation puts the shoo on the other foot – for those who champion the Antichrist.

    The following passage refers to “he,” the second Beast that came after the first …

    [Rev 13:16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
    [17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    [18] Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    The second Beast is what we refer to as the Borg.

    Buying and selling refer to digital commerce; the standard transaction mode in the first world, and gaining popularity in many (most?) third-world countries. Cash sales become limited to gold or silver for goods in back-alley exchanges.

    The mark of the Beast is your credit card number; or perhaps your Social Security number (or whatever number your country uses as its primary identifier of individuals).

    The second Beast is the person (probably male) at the top of the pyramid (the digital empire) known as The Deep State (DS). Nobody knows who he (or she?) is, but his/her Executive Officer for The New World Order of Industrial-Military control of government and finance was David Rockefeller, who was incumbent during the intermediate stages of digital enslavement (known as “convenience”) of humanity … with a current 30% interest rate if you don’t submit the minimum numbers (dollars, pounds, euros) on time.

    “David Rockefeller was an American banker who was chairman and chief executive of Chase Manhattan Corporation. He was the oldest living member of the Rockefeller family and family patriarch from August 2004 until his death in March 2017.” – Wikipedia

    This topic was covered in greater detail, with references, in a Chapter of The Master Codex, which, if missing from your library, can be obtained for free via email attachment by sending me a request (subject: SEND FINAL) to me at the address given (way) below.

    ————- Misc Data —————

    6 = Tiphareth, the Sun, Harmony & Beauty, the dialog with the HGA.

    66 = 6 x 11 (the number of Magick, and the “number of those who are of us).”
    RJKA (Hebrew) = 66 = “to rise like the sun.” Thus, 66 is a glyph or symbol of the Adept of the Inner Order.

    666 = 6 x 111 (the essential/spiritual expression of any primary number (1 to 9). As AC said in court, “You may call me Little Sunshine.”

    —————————–

    So we have matter, money, and mundane related to the dark forces variously called the Black Lodge and the Deep State).

    And we have spirit, sanctity, and sublimity related to the light forces variously called the White Lodge and the Light Workers).

    ——————————

    Finally, we have the words of Mr White (Pierre Levesque; 1984) …

    “Prophecy dates in the past could be accurate; now this is not possible.”
    There was the implication here that most of the ancient prophecies had been fulfilled, and modern prophecies were muddled due to our high rate of speed and change.

    “Anarchy would be great. How would the power-man relate if everyone was on the same level?”

    “Past systems have served their purpose (including The Book of the Law.).”
    This statement has since attracted the attention of other, alert people, who feel the same way. Most Thelemites would be outraged.

    – Quotes from http://mystic-history.angelfire.com/11avatar.htm

    ———————————

    I have observed the Rule of Ten Percent, and have probably exceeded my credit limit. The above are simply pieces of the puzzle. A document citing another 50-60% of the expanded, panoramic vista are in a document (now prepared, but awaiting appendices) to be made available in the near future (probably in a week). If anything above caught your attention, and you’d like the expanded version, send me an email (subject: SEND 50-60).

    SEND 50-60
    or
    SEND FINAL
    or both
    to shiva-ss@gmail.com

    ————————–

    If one were to update The Revelation from archaic symbols to modern symbols, then examine said Apocalypse from a contemporary Black Borg vs White Anarchy viewpoint, maybe it’ll make more sense.

    On the other hand, all restraining orders and judgements of incompetency may not be safely delivered to my Temple in the northern extension of the Jornada del Muerto wasteland.

    Just put all that in your pipe, and get smokin’.

    #114442

    Tiger
    Participant

    Jesus Blasphemer
    “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
    John 10:33

    Political religious caste system players
    tithing toilet cleaners
    in order to have time to stand on a pulpit
    to advance the expropriation
    of the means in which trust fund babies
    thrive
    to be on the level.

    sign here

    ——————————————————

    #114443

    Shiva
    Participant

    T:” We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” John 10:33

    Oh, that was just the cover story. Follow out the various scenes of Jeheshua’s life, and you might see a cause and effect between his thrashing of the moneychangers (the ancient banking system / money market) and his subsequent arrest. Disruption of the economy, as it were.

    sign here

    I Am Not A Rajah—————

    #114444

    Tiger
    Participant

    Work can still be found where the embedding of a chip is not required
    as well as food out there in in the wilderness.

    What is the mark of the beast ?
    What is the seal of god ?
    What is the conflict of of which to worship ?

    Libation for the cauldron.

    #114445

    elitemachinery
    Participant

    @shiva

    Google’s profits are sent every year to PO Box 666 is Bermuda according to the Daily Mail.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3425097/Don-t-evil-Google-sends-profits-worth-8BILLION-year-post-box-number-666-tax-haven-island-Bermuda.html

    Google seems to fit the bill when it comes to mass surveillance and digital commerce and control. But Google doesn’t seem to fit the role of the Second Beast causing people to worship the first Beast.

    Re Revelations can anyone tell me which version of the bible to read and where it might be online? Which would be considered the best version to pull quotes from? There does seem to be a lot of variance in interpretations.

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