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how to contact Bill Breeze  

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 Anonymous
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02/04/2017 9:50 pm  

93 according to Wikitree, Bill Breeze was assembling biographical material on Roddie Minor as early as 2003 e.v.

would he like to contribute a brief bio of her to my forthcoming Hellfire Books edition of Liber 729?

otherwise, would he care to share the data he has collected?

I would appreciate a contact or referal to him on this matter

93/93


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Jamie J Barter
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03/04/2017 11:59 pm  

how to contact Bill Breeze ... I would appreciate a contact or referal to him on this matter
Have you thought of perhaps trying c/o the "O.T.O." ?!

(Notwithstanding
"The authority of the O.T.O. is concentrated in the O.H.O. (Outer Head of the Order), or Frater Superior. The name of the person occupying this office is never disclosed except to his immediate representatives." --- Liber LII. 5.)

my forthcoming Hellfire Books edition of Liber 729?
Suggest publishing waits until January 1st, 2018 ...

May fortune smile !?
Norma Z Joy Conquest


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Shiva
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04/04/2017 3:52 pm  

"The name of the person occupying this office is never disclosed ...

Well, it looks like Liber LII has been abrogated.


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lashtal
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04/04/2017 9:17 pm  

William Breeze is widely acknowledged as an expert on the life and works of Aleister Crowley and it was clearly in this context that the original poster mentioned him by name, not in connection with any apparent role in the OTO.

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LAShTAL


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Michael Staley
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It's all in the egg
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05/04/2017 1:39 pm  

Suggest publishing waits until January 1st, 2018 …

Probably not long enough. I've found the following pdf from The National Archives quite useful in understanding the present and forthcoming status of the Crowley copyright:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/information-management/copyright-related-rights.pdf

Particularly useful is the flow-chart on page 13. It indicates that what comes out of copyright on 1st Jan 2018 is anything which Crowley published, and also anything published up to 20 years after his death. The latter would include the various items which Germer published such as The Vision and the Voice, Magick without Tears, Liber Aleph, The Gospel According to St. Bernard Shaw, etc.

Unfortunately I don't think that The Amalantrah Working falls into the category of works coming out of copyright at the beginning of 2018, since so far as I'm aware it wasn't published - apart from extracts - prior to December 1967.


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Jamie J Barter
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07/04/2017 12:37 am  

William Breeze is widely acknowledged as an expert on the life and works of Aleister Crowley and it was clearly in this context that the original poster mentioned him by name, not in connection with any apparent role in the OTO.
If I were in Elsie's position and wanted to make contact with BB, and didn't have his home address or telephone number to call him on by, then the logical thing to do (if the thought hadn't already occurred to her) would be to try to get a hold of him by his place of work, which is to all intents and purposes the "OTO" (I understand he draws a salary for services rendered, so that figures). But being thought by some - or widely acknowledged, if you prefer - to be "an expert on the life and works of Aleister Crowley", as well as (co)incidentally being in the starring role as the Head of the (so called) "O.T.O.", it would be logical to contact him there; the fact that Bill Breeze is one and the same as Hymenaeus Beta and that they both inhabit the same mortal body must be arguably the worst kept secret in Occulture, even more so than what comprises the (post-coital cunnilingual ingestion of the combined charged elixir) "secret" of the IXth Degree.

Well, it looks like Liber LII has been abrogated.
Yes indeed it does! Incredible to relate, BB did apparently try to realize the anonymity of the autocracy of the post as his first act as the new Caliph, according to his description in the (c).O.T.O.'s Magical Link newsletter at the time, but was obliged to desist from this when it became obvious just how many people were actually aware of his identity. It is interesting to conjecture how disappointing for him that must have been!

what comes out of copyright on 1st Jan 2018 is anything which Crowley published, and also anything published up to 20 years after his death. The latter would include the various items which Germer published such as The Vision and the Voice, Magick without Tears, Liber Aleph, The Gospel According to St. Bernard Shaw,etc.
And three cheers for that. Regardless of when the exact dates of which pieces of Crowleyana come out of copyright or not, after next January we can at least look forward to the prospect (at last) of some more A.C. texts and libri being able to come onto the market again for the first time in fifteen odd years, and that can be no bad thing at all. The days when one can go into a general (rather than specialist) bookshop (yes, there are still a few around, just) and see no Crowley titles in stock on the shelves apart from the same old Book of Thoth are hopefully now about to come to an end... In fact, one might ask exactly what good has (c).O.T.O.'s retaining their copyright done during the time since 1991? That's not a rhetorical question - what actual good has their monopoly done at all (-anyone)?

N Joy


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RTC
 RTC
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07/04/2017 3:35 pm  

Jamie J Barter: "...the fact that Bill Breeze is one and the same as Hymenaeus Beta and that they both inhabit the same mortal body must be arguably the worst kept secret in Occulture..." Certainly less double-edged swordingly guarded than the supreme mystery of a contact address - Which retains its invioletity!

Given the manifest difficulty of establishing contact, it's hardly surprising that cOTOInc have yet to make any inroads into its publication backlogue...


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Shiva
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07/04/2017 9:44 pm  

I had a person-to-person email dialog with BB in 2007. We discussed books, copyrights, websites, lineages and clandestine offshoots, and my personal position (given unsolicited). I found his demeanor to be polite, thorough, and non-antagonistic. I have no problems with the BB persona that I interfaced with.

We entered into the dialog due to my "accidental" publishing of "copyrighted" material (a pdf of the Yi King, as published by Solar Lodge OTO in 1968 -

    21

years after 1947 [too bad!]), and OTO blocked its sale on eBay (in 2007).

So I clicked CONTACT SELLER or whatever it was, and soon BB and I were chatting away. This is one possible way to contact BB, but you might get his Lawyer instead. Or the Grand Tribunal might summon you.

Now, back in 1968, we were the OTO. Period. I believe Mr Grant in England was doing similar work, but we knew nothing about that. Motta and McMurtry had not yet arisen from their graves, and Regardie refused to undertake the resurrection of OTO when asked to by members of Agape Lodge. After all the legal hassles and the induction of H.B. into official, establishment-approved, corporate leader ship, he (or his vehicle, BB) informed me that Solar Lodge was not "really" OTO, because we had no written charter from the Grand Master Baphomet, who was dead by the way. We had our own GMB.

Anyway, it was true that we had no charter on paper or parchment, so I agreed to make no further claims about OTO lineage. Thank goodness there was an A.'.A.'. curriculum to maintain. I had already promised myself to NOT use OTO rites, words, grips, etc, in the future (and that was in 1972), because there's something in all that which evokes persecution from the Establishment. Historically, it's always been that way with the lineage. Look at the Templars, the Illuminati, etc. Hot stuff! Call the fire dept, call the police!

Our dialog prompted me to write Inside Solar Lodge - Outside the Law, and that sold out really quick. OTO/BB cooperated with the publication. My publisher said he stopped everyone and sent them off to find archival photos of Solar Lodge taken by McMurtry, which we then used in the book ... with permission, of course.

It's funny how things go, and how they turn out, isn't it?


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Jamie J Barter
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07/04/2017 11:40 pm  

Now, back in 1968, we were the OTO. Period.
....
I agreed to make no further claims about OTO lineage.

If that ain't some sort of a claim what is it then, I wonder?

After all the legal hassles and the induction of H.B. into official, establishment-approved, corporate leader ship, he (or his vehicle, BB) informed me that Solar Lodge was not “really” OTO, because we had no written charter from the Grand Master Baphomet
If it had been Ray Burlingame, rather than Lieut. McMurtry, who had made it across the great water in WW2 & had played chess & supped scotch with & been made roving VIIth degree Sovereign Grand Inspector General personal representative (or whatever his particular choc drop was called) by the Grand old Master in his place, the whole course of this history would have been considerably different from what it is & quite conceivably we would be hearing now from Shiva as the Frater Superior of the One True Order instead. Oho! But that's in some alternate universe a zillion miles from Kansas...

Call the fire dept, call the police!
Sorry, but you're only allowed to make one call don't you know. How about calling your lawyer!!?? 🙂

It’s funny how things go, and how they turn out, isn’t it?
Most surely is!

И∫ºλ


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lashtal
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08/04/2017 12:04 am  

Moderator's Note

Fascinating though it always is to see these issues discussed in such detail seemingly every time the OTO is mentioned, this is just a polite reminder that the thread relates to a request by the OP for contact information relating to a named individual.

Jamie, if you really feel it is appropriate to go through all this history yet again on these Forums, please start a new thread.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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08/04/2017 4:06 pm  

Technical/Grammar/Tense Clarification

Now, back in 1968, we

    were

the OTO. Period.
….
I agreed to make

    no further

claims about OTO lineage.

JB asks: If that ain’t some sort of a claim what is it then, I wonder?

My detailed description of "How to contact BB" were in reference to "How to contact BB" and further discussion about past/present/future tense can be undertaken in a new thread, which I fill establish in a few minutes.


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Shiva
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08/04/2017 4:13 pm  

NOTE: My post above has spaced and adjusted the type, and my EDIT had no reponse on how the words were dispersed.

A few minutes later (EDIT) - Sorry, I can't find the "New Topic" buttun anywhere. JB, feel free to start a new thread ... if you wish.


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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08/04/2017 7:00 pm  

Shiva: Sorry you're having problems with editing posts and creating a new thread. We've definitely established that the software application running Forums here is rubbish! The only thing preventing us from moving to something better (like the old software!) is the risk of losing all the existing posts and needing to log in separately.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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Jamie J Barter
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08/04/2017 7:56 pm  

Technical/Grammar/Tense Clarification

"Now, back in 1968, we were the OTO. Period.
...
I agreed to make no further claims about OTO lineage."
If that ain’t some sort of a claim what is it then, I wonder?

The comment merely related to the fact that by saying in 1968 we (i.e. Solar Lodge) were (=emphasised) the O.T.O., that is in itself a claim. I'm not saying that you (Solar Lodge) are still making a claim for saying you are the real O.T.O., just that by claiming to be so in 1968 you must presumably be implicitly invoking some form of legitimate lineage (albeit one not backed up by parchments and charters). It is a claim you made in the post before last (#99235), relating to the historical authenticity of the Solar Lodge as it was at that time. (I take it you aren't actually denying the semantic fact that this constitutes a claim, are you?)

This is then contrasted with your comment at the beginning of the following paragraph that in 2007 you agreed to make no further claims about such lineage. Although this is then contradicted by your very assertion (i.e. your claim) at the beginning of this post written in 2017 that in 1968 you "were" the OTO!

It's no big deal, really, I'm not and wasn't intending making a big (or indeed any) issue out of it; it was just that the juxtaposition of claim v. non-claim struck me as amusing. (I therefore have no need or desire, personally, to create a new thread).

Back to our scheduled programming of how to contact BB (take out an advert, perhaps?)
N Joy

PS I haven't experienced any trouble with editing or quoting posts recently, although it has happened in the past and it's annoying not to 'Preview'. I agree though, the current software unfortunately leaves much to be desired and the old one from two or three years back and beyond was vastly more preferable.


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Shiva
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08/04/2017 11:52 pm  

I acknowledge your logic and really want to explain trans-temporal conception, but ... We were asked to move this dialog off into a new thread. I have not fully read our hefty reply, but will be happy to read and respond if YOU (not me, I'm f***ing incompetent) transfer this last post of yours to a Solar Lodge thread, Occult 60s thread, or a New thread. I tried and failed. It's up to you to keep the lineage moving.

Note to Moderator: Yes, we've had this discussion before, and I understand the situation. THIS time I was not complaining, just justifying my strangely space post and inability to do what I said I was going to do. We all look forward to a proper replacement with the understanding that no suitable borg-device is presently available to save data and perform sanely. Personally, I am not opposed to a separate login.

Now, to return to the thread: BB was born in August 1955 (source: Wikipedia). He is a solar Leo. I hope this helps in making contact ... but, probably not.


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Jamie J Barter
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10/04/2017 2:03 am  

I have not fully read our hefty reply,
Assuming this is a typo for "your" (otherwise it simply doesn't make sense) I don't know what you're referring to - what hefty reply is this? There wouldn't seem to be anyting fitting that description on this thread

but will be happy to read and respond if YOU (not me, I’m f***ing incompetent) transfer this last post of yours
This "last post" referred to my explanation of your claim v. non-claim re 1968 and about which I think I said there all that needed to be said and which you also "acknowledged" - surely that would mark "End Of" in that respect?

to a Solar Lodge thread, Occult 60s thread, or a New thread.
If relevant - e.g., in terms of your explanation of "trans-temporal conception" - please specify exactly which previous thread you'd have in mind since historically you would be more familiar with all their content than I.

I tried and failed. It’s up to you to keep the lineage moving.
But why is it up to me, since I have no vested interest in pushing forward one lineage rather than another in terms of keeping it moving. (Parenthetically and for what it's worth, out of a motley bunch of shaky-qualified post Germer contenders I would consider Motta to have marginally had the best overall 'claim' to successorship.) And while I've no objection in principle to carrying on a dialogue on the matter elsewhere, I'm not sure what else remains to be said in this respect of 'moving lineage'.

"Period"!
Amicably yours,
N Joy

PS, I wouldn't be opposed to a separate log-in either. And returning back to topic again as regards to contacting the apparently elusive BB: since according to Wikipedia he "is currently a member of the band Current 93" (sic) maybe Elsie could try getting a hold of him through their current record company or management...


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Horemakhet
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11/04/2017 11:14 pm  

93 Elsie. You could pm Richard Kaczynski (I believe this is his username as well), tell him why you'd like to contact Breeze & perhaps he could help. No guarantee that he'll respond of course but it's worth a shot!


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 Anonymous
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22/04/2017 6:48 pm  

Profile photo of Shiva
Shiva: who asked? twas not me. I'm not sure of Mr feazey's proprietay protocols, but i know he won't delet forum threads so i guess that kind points to who now owns the content? whatever. please, if LAShTAL doe not disagree, continue weaving this tapestry, wither the weft and the weave may wend


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