Home Forums Administration Introductions How to join the AA?

  • This topic contains 102 replies, has 32 voices, and was last updated by  Anonymous 2 years, 6 months ago.
Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 103 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #67093

    N.O.X
    Participant

    I’ll second that. I’ve been interested in the Sufis since I first read Chumbleys works. Your post, Swamiji, has further “fanned the flames”, so to speak, and I’ve decided to do some more in-depth research.

    #67094

    Swamiji
    Participant

    Its notable, for example, that arguably the two most defining moments in Crowley’s life (the reception of the Book of the Law, and his attainment as a Magister Templi) both happened in north africa. That region at the turn of the century was ripe with Sufi influence and thoughts, most particularly in the Sidi Aissawa branch.

    Aissawa literally means “anointed ones”, and is a reference both to Jesus (“Isa” in arabic) and the founder of their sect. Sufis have their own equivalent “arabic gematria”, where they put great emphasis on anagrams.

    The Sidi Aissawa used/uses a kind of degree structure, where they differentiate between the level of an initiate (“Fakir”) into the sect, the adepts, and the masters or “sheiks”.

    It is hard to manage particular detail on this, however, since there were multiple groups and teachers operating under that name; and even by Crowley’s time that sect was in rapid decline toward the kind of folk-religion state it is in today, where they are best known for their songs and dances, rather than serious illumination.
    Sufis of course make a point of scattering the teaching into new and different forms, to try to keep it alive rather than turned into a hollow imitation of its true illumination.

    #67095

    FraDiavolo
    Participant
    "Swamiji" wrote:
    Its notable, for example, that arguably the two most defining moments in Crowley’s life (the reception of the Book of the Law, and his attainment as a Magister Templi) both happened in north africa. That region at the turn of the century was ripe with Sufi influence and thoughts, most particularly in the Sidi Aissawa branch.

    So Sufism is a source of the A:.A:. system, yes?

    Paschal Beverley Randolph, the “founder” of the HBL toward which Reuss said he had connections claims mysterious Sufi influence, too, as did Carl Kellner of the OTO.

    Randolph – the first public sex magician – was supposedly killed by Blavatsky in a “magical war”. Or so the rumour goes.

    These three mentioned societies are “sex magic” societies.

    I know the Sufis always were and are very relaxed on sexual intercourse in all forms and they may have done sex magic, too.

    And the similarity of Aissawa/Aiwass catches the eye, of course 😉

    Do you think the Sufis had preserved some old knowledge which were lost to us? Do you think this still exists today?

    #67096

    zardoz
    Participant

    I also suspect a significant Sufi influence in Crowley’s work. This appears to be one thing that Crowley and Gurdjieff had in common.

    #67097

    FraDiavolo
    Participant

    Quote from the book “I rather fancy that the probationer of Crowley’s A. A. could find this manual of the utmost value to prepare him for the advancement to the Grade of Neophyte.”

    I read the book but haven’t started the exercises but they look promising and in line with Crowley’s initiatory guidelines from my viewpoint.
    There ARE other books of course but this one seems to be written from the pov of a sincere seeker who knows what he does (he was initiated by Crowley) and communicating this nicely in words which make it easy to follow.

    Anyone confirm or negate the value of this book? I felt it was relevant to the thread 🙂

    #67098

    Shiva
    Participant

    Sufis? – Absolutely!

    From ancient Egypt, the western mysteries migrated to Persia-Arabia. We (the western tradition) got “back in touch” with the sexual mysteries from the “Sufis” of their time: The Saracen – in particular, the Hashashin. The Sufi tradition is, after all, an “esoteric” branch of Allah’s realm.

    “We,” of course, were called the Knights Templar (by our much longer official name). When the Templars were crushed by the Black Lodge (the forces of materialism), the tradition went underground to surface as the Rosicrucians (hermits & alchemists & healers). In their turn, the healers got persecuted as witches and they went underground to emerge as the politically-oriented Illuminati – who eventually got banned, but re-emerged or co-emerged or pre-emerged as Freemasonry and Randolph and etcetera until OTO.

    The Golden Dawn spilled out of Rosicruceana, but without all that sexy stuff. Crowley rose out of the Golden Dawn and then assumed leadership of the OTO, where all these secret Sufi “Secrets of The East” were proclaimed as being the central secret of all systems of illumination. His A.’.A.’. (revised GD & RC plus SS) was free – if you paid for the “paper” (a guinea it was), but the central secret degrees cost more – eventually your all (and I’m speaking of money and your computer as well).

    This is all very interesting, and the word Sufi may well include a dim image, an overview as it were, of the source of sexy symbolism in western orders of chivalry. We might also consider that these Sufis were passing along info from even further East. see: Journey to the East by Herman Hesse. It is the prototype, the archetype of the history of all outer orders.

    In any case, as has been recently posted and noted and acknowledged on these very forums and soapboxes upon which we stand … This same “secret” information is openly available in certain Hindu Tantra traditions (their texts) and even more scientifically in certain ancient Chinese Taoist texts and scrolls. I am refering to both the internal Amrita Lotus-drop elixir – the true Elixir of Immortality, and the external secretions, the so-called “Amrita,” but not truly so because it has already been “incarnated” one level below the pure state.

    I mention all these things because, as one of our members said, “I read all about this in the plainest language in college-assigned readings” (or words to that effect).

    Did you know that when the evil King and his dupe, the puppet Pope, went after the Templars, that one of the charges was Conspiring with the Hashashin?

    #67099

    FraDiavolo
    Participant
    "Shiva" wrote:
    From ancient Egypt, the western mysteries migrated to Persia-Arabia.

    Did they come from Babylonia to Egypt?

    "Shiva" wrote:
    the tradition went underground to surface as the Rosicrucians (hermits & alchemists & healers).

    Comte Gebelin, Ficino, de Medici.

    Did you know Mozart studied with a guy who had the Comte’s tarot book and it is presumed Mozart got inspired by this and portrayed the opera “magic flute” after the Tarot? There are 22 parts and four triads and so on. The oroginal idea of operas had been to communicate neo-platonic knowledge to “the people”.

    But enough offtopic. “Down, boy” (Ace Ventura to his cock) 🙂

    "Shiva" wrote:
    In their turn, the healers got persecuted as witches and they went underground to emerge as the politically-oriented Illuminati

    But not in Britain where there were few witch burnings and many higher circles practiciced witchcraft and the GD/RRetAC/AA emerged there.

    "Shiva" wrote:
    The Golden Dawn spilled out of Rosicruceana, but without all that sexy stuff. Crowley rose out of the Golden Dawn and then assumed leadership of the OTO, where all these secret Sufi “Secrets of The East” were proclaimed as being the central secret of all systems of illumination. His A.’.A.’. (revised GD & RC plus SS) was free – if you paid for the “paper” (a guinea it was), but the central secret degrees cost more – eventually your all (and I’m speaking of money and your computer as well).

    But maybe he contacted Sufis himself? He must have known a wandering dervish for what he is: sometimes a master seeking for pupils. Sufis wouldn’t have condemned his bisexual leanings, they even may have had a classification for rites with men and women.

    "Shiva" wrote:
    Did you know that when the evil King and his dupe, the puppet Pope, went after the Templars, that one of the charges was Conspiring with the Hashashin?

    I didn’t know this! That would’ve concerned the Templars,too, of course?

    Did I already tell you I enjoy your posts, Uncle Shiva?
    I enjoy your posts.
    Now I said it. I’m unable to deny it 😀

    #67100

    FraDiavolo
    Participant

    PS I meant my cock in the line above… 😀

    In the line above I meant it would have concerned Sufis Because there would have been a line of master pupil exchange alive which got extinguished by the persecution.

    So they preserved their teachings in secret societies and alchemicial mystical images. But the Sufis got never persecuted, or was there a Sufi hunt too in Arabian countries?

    #67101

    Swamiji
    Participant
    "FraDiavolo" wrote:
    "Swamiji" wrote:
    Its notable, for example, that arguably the two most defining moments in Crowley’s life (the reception of the Book of the Law, and his attainment as a Magister Templi) both happened in north africa. That region at the turn of the century was ripe with Sufi influence and thoughts, most particularly in the Sidi Aissawa branch.

    So Sufism is a source of the A:.A:. system, yes?

    Paschal Beverley Randolph, the “founder” of the HBL toward which Reuss said he had connections claims mysterious Sufi influence, too, as did Carl Kellner of the OTO.

    Randolph – the first public sex magician – was supposedly killed by Blavatsky in a “magical war”. Or so the rumour goes.

    These three mentioned societies are “sex magic” societies.

    I know the Sufis always were and are very relaxed on sexual intercourse in all forms and they may have done sex magic, too.

    And the similarity of Aissawa/Aiwass catches the eye, of course 😉

    Do you think the Sufis had preserved some old knowledge which were lost to us? Do you think this still exists today?

    I’d strongly recommend you read some of the works of Idries Shah, as it should give you a good groundwork on what sufis are about (particularly his book “The Sufis”).

    I think that Sufi teachers have preserved knowledge, I don’t know about the “lost to us” part; rather, the real Sufis, far from trying to horde this knowledge, have tried to spread it out as much as possible and in as many forms as possible.

    One thing that strikes me as admirable about the sufi method is the impermanence of the outward form of the teaching; generally speaking, the transmission of “realized” Sufi teachers is such that they will create something new and different from what their master did, while the old form inevitably transforms into a kind of cargo cult (that sometimes disappears quickly, while at other times it will linger on for as long as centuries as a now empty shell of an earlier teaching.

    #67102

    Swamiji
    Participant
    "FraDiavolo" wrote:
    PS I meant my cock in the line above… 😀

    In the line above I meant it would have concerned Sufis Because there would have been a line of master pupil exchange alive which got extinguished by the persecution.

    So they preserved their teachings in secret societies and alchemicial mystical images. But the Sufis got never persecuted, or was there a Sufi hunt too in Arabian countries?

    Sufi teachers and individual sufi schools have been persecuted quite frequently. Mansur Al-Hallaj is one good example; Hafiz was constantly under attack from the clerical orders of his day (after his death they tried to have him buried as a heretic, but were thwarted; I write about this in the introduction to my book on Hafiz’s poetry:: http://www.mystery-school.net/en/hafiz/life.htm; later on the sufi orders were generally opposed and often suppressed by western colonial powers; and finally Sufism has been quite brutally persecuted and attacked by the wahabists and other forms of “fundamentalist” Islam (which actually have little or no “fundamental” about them, since they’re basically a very modern invention based on a western influence); to the point that in a place like Afghanistan, which was once an incredible hotbed of Sufi activity, genuine sufism has been virtually extinguished.

    #67103

    Fomalhaut
    Participant

    Do you know These guys: http://outercol.org ?

    #67104

    Shiva
    Participant
    "Fomalhaut" wrote:
    Do you know These guys: http://outercol.org ?

    Oh yeah! 😀
    Well, maybe! ::)
    Probably almost certainly so!
    [align=center:6r89up2r]Subject to irrevocably true solid evidence

    WARNING
    Proceed at Your Own Risk
    It is wise to destroy this flag after seeing it[/align:6r89up2r]

    Since they cite their address as “Chancellor, BM ANKH, London WC1N 3XX, ENGLAND,” which was AC’s olde-time contact address, and since it has been linked in modern times to the “legally-recognized” OTO, then we can asume that this is the controversial* A.’.A.’. headed up by Hymenaeus Beta, Frater Superior of the OTO (Bill Breeze), and his fellow knights, of whom all mostly came from Motta’s SOTO, but then transferred to McMurtry’s OTO, and then came into power after McM died, and then decided that they needed to form an A.’.A.’. in contrast to (ie, “in competition with”) other A.’.A.’. lineages, such as Frater Sphinx’s deal, and Star System, and the McMurtry lineage A.’.A.’., et al, al, al 😉

    See reply #1 on this thread> ]http://www.lashtal.com/forum/http://www.lashtal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9]
    for confirmation.

    * NOTE: All A.’.A.’. lineages are controversial in one manner or another. Every “lodge” has members, and enemies who will say bad things about the “lodge” or “order” or “lneage” or its “leader.”

    #67105

    Fomalhaut
    Participant

    Thank you very much Sir! 🙂

    #67106

    ignant666
    Participant

    For whatever value the opinion of some guy on the internet (with no personal experience of any initiatory organization since the Boy Scouts of America kicked me out all those decades ago) may have, James Eshelman’s version (which can be found via what some call the “fruitcake factory” at heruraha.net) seems to combine the most authentic claim of direct “apostolic succession” back to AC with a lack of the creepy cult vibes some others radiate.

    #67107

    Fomalhaut
    Participant
    "ignant666" wrote:
    the creepy cult vibes

    What do you mean by that?

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 103 total)
  • You must be logged-in to reply to this topic.