Home Forums Thelema Thelema ‘Kill me’ or ‘Fill me’ – The Debate

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  • #112426

    ignant666
    Participant

    Probably for the same reason wrwb puts “one” before everyone’s name (“one Fr. Spin Rex”, “one Ankh-af-na-khonsu”), and then “said” on second mentions (“said Ankh-af-na-khonsu”), and says things like “does in this article write the following” instead of “writes”- he thinks it makes him sound more scholarly or clever or something.

    Or possibly wrwb employs Martians or robots to translate his posts into English from whatever his native language is. Or maybe he is paid by the word for his posts here, and thus constantly seeks to pad them out with all these tics/strange stylistic choices?

    wrwb’s very stilted language use, repetitiveness, and stringing together of quotations from any old thing that turns up in a google search are all hallmarks of his posts, along with their total pointlessness.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  ignant666.
    #112428

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    “Egyptian comsology” refers to ancient Egyptian cosmology.

    As for “‘Kill me’ or ‘Fill me’ – The Debate”, the change from ‘Fill me’ to ‘Kill me’ within The Book of the Law associated with Aleister Crowley and/or one Aiwass, does further accentuate the pseudo-Egyptian nature of the symbolism used within the Thelema associated with Aleister Crowley.

    #112429

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    Michael Staley:

    “@wellreadwellbred

    so-called The Book of the Law associated with them

    Why is it “so-called The Book of the Law” rather than simply “The Book of the Law“?”

    Because Crowley among also calling it Liber XXXI (Liber 31) and Liber 220, calling the most holy book of his Thelema The Book of the Law, knew that this title would have a special, implied, meaning for masons being members of the United Grand Lodge of England (within his homeland England, for most masons the major ‘Mother Lodge’, which Crowley originally wanted membership of, and acceptance from). As the Book of the Law “is the Masonic term for whatever religious or philosophical texts are displayed during a Lodge meeting.” (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_of_Sacred_Law)

    #112430

    lashtal
    Keymaster

    the change from ‘Fill me’ to ‘Kill me’ within The Book of the Law associated with Aleister Crowley and/or one Aiwass, does further accentuate the pseudo-Egyptian nature of the symbolism used within the Thelema associated with Aleister Crowley

    Nonsense.

    #112431

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    @wellreadwellbred

    Since this is a thread on a website and not a masonic meeting, you can probably relax and refer to it here as simply The Book of the Law. But then that would mean one less affectation at your disposal, wouldn’t it?

    #112433

    runelogix
    Participant

    As a Thelemite I feel obligated to shred all of the ‘kill me’ editions.

    #112434

    Shiva
    Participant

    el: There is an entry for Solar Lodge on Lashtal’s Encyclopedia Thelemica which is both informative and fair:

    Rightly so. I posted that version, which was based on my pre-revisionist-spin post over there at Wikipedia … except there’s pictures on Thelemica. The Thelemica version was posted after the spinners went to work and I wanted the “true” version, without spin, squash, or tilt, to be embedded somewhere.

    #112436

    mal
    Participant

    This revision has been in use for a few years now. Could it be said to have noticeably benefited or harmed anyone or the OTO?

    #112437

    ignant666
    Participant

    Re Solar Lodge wiki: My edits survive un-botted approaching 48 hours now.

    re mal’s question: It is possible that the edited version of the public-domain text of AL might qualify for a new term of copyright for the copyright holders. This would of course not have any effect on the public-domain status of the unedited original version, so might be seen as a bit pointless.

    As to “kill/fill”, and textual exegesis, more broadly: Are the various commandments to do, or not do, various things in AL actually meant to apply to Thelemites generally, or simply to AC personally?

    Aren’t Thelemites supposed to do their own wills, rather than listen to a text allegedly dictated to somebody else by their HGA?

    #112439

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    Me: “the change from ‘Fill me’ to ‘Kill me’ within The Book of the Law associated with Aleister Crowley and/or one Aiwass, does further accentuate the pseudo-Egyptian nature of the symbolism used within the Thelema associated with Aleister Crowley”

    lashtal, Keymaster: “Nonsense.”

    Lashtal, Keymaster, is it your specific position that the said “change from ‘Fill me’ to ‘Kill me’ within The Book of the Law”, does not in itself, further accentuate the pseudo-Egyptian nature of the symbolism used within the Thelema associated with Aleister Crowley? I can sort of agree to that this change does not much further accentuate the pseudo-Egyptian nature of the symbolism used within the Thelema associated with Aleister Crowley. As this pseudo-Egyptian nature was already very prevalent within AC’s The Book of the Law, before the “change from ‘Fill me’ to ‘Kill me’.

    Or is it your general position that the symbolism used within the Thelema associated with Aleister Crowley is not pseudo-Egyptian in nature?

    On this site you have written: “The influence of Egypt on Crowley has been an obsession of mine for many years …” (source: https://www.lashtal.com/forums/topic/crowleys-egypt-article-in-the-pomegranate/#post-63567), and “… there’s a great deal of evidence that could lead one to suspect that Thelema is, at its core, a re-awakening (or, shall we say, a “re-imagining”?) of the ancient Egyptian religion.” (source: https://www.lashtal.com/forums/topic/crowleys-egypt-article-in-the-pomegranate/page/2/#post-63587).

    AC’s Thelema at its core (= his most holy book for his Thelema, The Book of the Law) being a “re-imagining” of the ancient Egyptian religion, is not grounded in academia or scholarly thought, as it is the product of the author’s imagination. The ancient Egyptian religion is thus in the said book used in a pseudo-scholarly and pseudo-Egyptian way.

    This short article describes an example of cult archaeology by a pseudo-scholar: Katherine Soule, “Valid Theories or an Overactive Imagination? Assessing Erich von Däniken’s Chariots of the Gods,” Armstrong Undergraduate Journal of History 3, no.3 (Nov. 2013) – – – https://www.armstrong.edu/history-journal/history-journal-valid-theories-or-an-overactive-imagination-assessing-erich

    #112441

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    @wellreadwellbred

    AC’s Thelema at its core (= his most holy book for his Thelema, The Book of the Law) being a “re-imagining”? of the ancient Egyptian religion, is not grounded in academia or scholarly thought, as it is the product of the author’s imagination. The ancient Egyptian religion is thus in the said book used in a pseudo-scholarly and pseudo-Egyptian way.

    Please stop it. My sides have just split.

    #112444

    christibrany
    Participant

    @ignant666 One Fr. Christibrany also known as shit cry brain/Shit for Brains (thank you kindly Aleister in Wonderland Michael Tyranny) agrees with said post above by yourself, also known as ign’ant in regards to the said pointlessness of Well Bread’s posts (that is bread from a water well, not healthy bread).

    I don’t think I can do the style justice but I tried.

    @wellreadwellbread

    How does changing ‘fill’ to ‘kill’ make it seem more Egyptian, or so-called pseudo-Egyptian? Not understanding the linkage.

    @mal yes it has harmed Thelema- as now an order (cOTO) also known as McOTO is the ‘sole’ ‘legal’ master of Thelema in most of the public’s eyes, which is totally contrary to the freedom-espousing, libertarian nature of true Thelema. There is no Law but Do As Thou Wilt. That does not mean do ‘as you like,’ or ‘what you want,’ but rather means to do what your true inner/soul/hadit/HGA nature dictate for the betterment of your life/evolution/future.

    You are here to experience this incarnation, to find that True Will. And how can you find that True Will if you are kow-towing, being a slave, and only performing what the Frater Superior says? That is why most sane lineages allow adherents to just use which version that they personally prefer.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  christibrany. Reason: grammar :)
    #112446

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    Nitpicking aside, I disagree with the change, as the text of The Book of the Law was allegedly dictated to AC by his HGA, as just pointed out by ignant666 in this thread, and my position is thus that it was up to AC and no one else, to implement any change of a letter in this text.

    And my answer to ingnant666’s question just asked in this thread; “Aren’t Thelemites supposed to do their own wills, rather than listen to a text allegedly dictated to somebody else by their HGA?”, is, yes.

    #112447

    christibrany
    Participant

    man…wellread your ‘explanatory’ post does not explain WHY changing fill to kill makes it more or less Egyptian…at ALL! You just say ‘I think it makes it so’ in about 5 different verbose ways without saying why, and then paste some quote which is not germane.

    *joining Michael in a kind of exasperated attempt at laughing*

    edit to say you finally posted a reason ‘because AC’s HGA gave him the BOTL’ I guess that still doesn’t explain why ‘fill’ or ‘kill’ are more or less Egyptian than the other.

    #112449

    ignant666
    Participant

    Great gods and gracious goddesses, wrwb, you have actually typed a couple straightforward sentences with a clear meaning!

    So now we know you can in fact do this- are the robots and/or Martians taking lunch or something?

    If only all your posts were so clear and concise!

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