Home Forums Thelema Thelema ‘Kill me’ or ‘Fill me’ – The Debate

Viewing 13 posts - 256 through 268 (of 268 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #112452

    elitemachinery
    Participant

    @christibrany said:

    “One Fr. Christibrany also known as shit cry brain/Shit for Brains (thank you kindly Aleister in Wonderland Michael Tyranny)”

    Lmao! Nice to that you have found some humor in the mud-slinging that goes around on Lasthal.

    I do enjoy reading the banter here on a regular basis. But it can get quite hostile at times!

    @ignant666 said:

    “It is possible that the edited version of the public-domain text of AL might qualify for a new term of copyright for the copyright holders. This would of course not have any effect on the public-domain status of the unedited original version, so might be seen as a bit pointless.”

    This never crossed my mind but makes sense to me. Given the OTO’s aggressive policing of copyrights I would be willing to believe that this is the real reason for making an edit. Beautiful new hardcover editions could be printed with color plates of art and sold as the only true final edition of Liber Al, fully endorsed by the holy rollers at OTO.

    #112454

    ignant666
    Participant

    Hostile schmostile, em! You should try attending a university faculty meeting some time, you wanna see hostile.

    This place is mere tiddlywinks compared to actual hostility such as is practiced in the groves of academe, or for that matter, restaurant kitchens (two places i know all too well). As far as i know, now that S.’. H.’. Fra. Los 8=3 has, um, left the building, as the kids say, no one here actually hates anyone else (i would be thrilled to know someone hates me, of course).

    Just arguing and disagreeing like siblings do (as AL instructs or comments- is “As brothers fight ye!” actually an instruction?).

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  ignant666.
    #112462

    lashtal
    Keymaster

    @wellreadwellbred:

    Lashtal, Keymaster, is it your specific position that the said “change from ‘Fill me’ to ‘Kill me’ within The Book of the Law”, does not in itself, further accentuate the pseudo-Egyptian nature of the symbolism used within the Thelema associated with Aleister Crowley? I can sort of agree to that this change does not much further accentuate the pseudo-Egyptian nature of the symbolism used within the Thelema associated with Aleister Crowley. As this pseudo-Egyptian nature was already very prevalent within AC’s The Book of the Law, before the “change from ‘Fill me’ to ‘Kill me’.

    Or is it your general position that the symbolism used within the Thelema associated with Aleister Crowley is not pseudo-Egyptian in nature?

    The symbolism is not ‘pseudo-Egyptian’ – in many ways AC’s account of ancient Egyptian mythology/cosmology more closely mirrors modern understanding than it does the views prevalent at the time he was writing (e.g. in E A Wallis Budge’s work).

    #112463

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    christibrany: “How does changing ‘fill’ to ‘kill’ make it seem more Egyptian, or so-called pseudo-Egyptian? Not understanding the linkage. […] edit to say you finally posted a reason ‘because AC’s HGA gave him the BOTL’ I guess that still doesn’t explain why ‘fill’ or ‘kill’ are more or less Egyptian than the other.”

    It makes BOTL ‘less Egyptian’, or rather more pseudo-Egyptian or more counterfeit-Egyptian or more quasi-Egyptian, because the ancient Egyptians (like the Ankh-af-na-khonsu mentioned in BOTL) were fanatic about safeguarding their individuality and civil status into perpetuity, in their life after death. It would have been incomprehensible and outrageous for an ancient Egyptian like Ankh-af-na-khonsu, to have the text on his Stele described as containing the words ‘let it kill me’, because the ultimate purpose of this Stele (funeral tablet) was safeguarding his individuality and civil status into perpetuity, in his life after his death.

    If you search for the word perpetuity in the thread https://www.lashtal.com/forums/topic/my-quotes-from-comment-to-download-timothy-moss-squaring-the-circle/, you can find much more on ancient Egyptian spirituality, with respect to the funeral tablet mentioned in BOTL.

    #112465

    runelogix
    Participant

    “Given the OTO’s aggressive policing of copyrights I would be willing to believe that this is the real reason for making an edit. Beautiful new hardcover editions could be printed with color plates of art and sold as the only true final edition of Liber Al, fully endorsed by the holy rollers at OTO.”

    Unironically the new Grand Lodge copies of Liber Al are like this.

    #112466

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    […] fully endorsed by the holy rollers at OTO.
    You mean, [c]OTO or the Caliphornian “OTO” there, don’t you (that’s also variously referred to as the [after Greedy] “McOTO” & in-quotation-marks “OTO”, Inc)?

    Unironically the new Grand Lodge copies of Liber Al are like this.
    (Holy) Roller-Up! (Holy) Roller-Up!

    What was that AC remarked about something being like the papyrus of Ani again?
    Z Joy

    #112474

    ignant666
    Participant

    Not [c]OTO, but (c)OTO, the (c) being how the copyright symbol © was rendered back when we just had typewriters, so really ©OTO. C of course could also as you point out stand for Caliph, or California.

    Some of the kids may not be aware of why AC dubbed Grady with the “Caliph” title- nowadays, postal addresses in the US use standard two-letter abbreviations for the states- so California is CA, Massachusetts is MA, Wyoming is WY, etc. But back when AC was writing letters to Grady, those state abbreviations were Calif., Mass., and Wyo. respectively.

    “Caliph” was a punning reference to Grady’s home state of Calif., not any kind of serious Thelemic title for the man he dubbed “Cunt Number One” [AC’s translation of “Hymenaeus Alpha“].

    #112487

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    Quite right – an excellent fleshing out of my point about the phenomenon which is (c)oto, and the reason why I didn’t put the ©OTO was because I couldn’t avail myself of the symbol on the keyboard at the time there.

    I prefer the “c” to stand for “Caliphornian” (rather than, e.g., “Caliphate”) myself because it succeeds in combining the more risible double-edged ‘compliment’ of the Caliph from Crowley with the fact that the corporate (another ‘c’) organization originated from California. In 1977. Not 1935, 1902, the Middle Ages or way back in the remote mists of Antiquity.

    I have often wondered why Bill Breeze would deliberately have set himself up for trouble – or at least a modicum of mickey-taking – in knowingly deciding to style himself Hymenaeus Beta, or as you everso correctly aver “Cunt Number Two” (yet another ‘c’ word!). I suppose it must just go to show what is becoming more and more of a characteristic: a lack of judgement and foresight?

    I have also sometimes wondered what the odds might be on his successor nonetheless carrying on the trend and choosing to call him (or indeed her) self Hymenaeus Gamma, thus furthering that illustrious dynasty well into the future. They must be at least thirty to one against, surely?

    With no numerically hidden meaning,
    N Joy

    #112530

    dom
    Participant

    @machinery

    Lmao! Nice to that you have found some humor in the mud-slinging that goes around on Lasthal.
    I do enjoy reading the banter here on a regular basis. But it can get quite hostile at times!

    Yeah I’ve been crucified on Lashtal…or was it just my cumbersome Zeppelin-sized ego that was burst?

    Haha.

    @ig666

    Of course, it is possible to be both sincere and a troll- S.’. H.’. Fra. Los 8=3 (probably 9=2 by now) being our local prime example…………….Incidentally, he claimed he has a Ph.D. a couple months ago, one from an actual terrestrial and presumably accredited university. This is possibly the most ludicrous thing he has ever said; there are some shitty Ph.D. programs in this world, but none shitty enough to let someone like Los get a doctorate.

    Well I doubt it’s in Philosophy. Seeing as he constantly referred to James Joyce and Blake on his blog I would guess that it’s English Literature.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  dom.
    #112534

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    … or was it just my cumbersome Zeppelin-sized ego that was burst?
    But – it’s (you’re) back again!

    Ha, Ha!
    N Joy

    #112536

    Shiva
    Participant

    d: I … would guess that it’s English Literature.

    A good guess.

    jb: … back again!

    Oh, it’s another of those Universal Principles. The aspirant undergoes terrible, ego-deflating experiences, may actually get a glimpse of a greater glory, but it all tends to wear off. The ego, laying unconscious over there in the corner, comes back to sentient, separate-being awareness, and immediatly proclaims, “Look at what I have accomplished!”

    My comment is not aimed at dom, but merely a recitation of the Universal Principle involved in the discussion.

    Note: This cycle’s lease expires upon reaching Binah … and receiving an imprint in that exalted realm. The vehicle still displays personal qualities (All is as it ever was)(see the persona of AC) , but the “pipeline” to nada is open, and he/she can communicate with Atma, the universal self, without further ego-inflation.

    #112547

    dom
    Participant

    @jamiebarter

    But – it’s (you’re) back again!

    HaHa

    I guess.

    Shiva, interesting info. I like the description seems very mechanical ha.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  dom.
    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  dom.
    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  dom.
    #113211

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    wellreadwellbred: “… is it your general position that the symbolism used within the Thelema associated with Aleister Crowley is not pseudo-Egyptian in nature?”

    lashtal Keymaster: “The symbolism is not ‘pseudo-Egyptian’ – in many ways AC’s account of ancient Egyptian mythology/cosmology more closely mirrors modern understanding than it does the views prevalent at the time he was writing (e.g. in E A Wallis Budge’s work).”

    Where can I find documentation demonstrating that the modern academic understanding of ancient mythology/cosmology, mirrors AC’s account of it, in his comments to his The Book of the Law?

    Comments where Nuit and Hadit are described by AC as including “all possible forms of existence” (source: AC’s The New Comment to AL I,29)”. Where AC describes Ra-Hoor-Khuit as “the active form twin to Harpocrates” (source: AC’s The New Comment to AL I,7)). Where AC described “Hoor” as “the Initiator” (source: AC’s The Old Comment to AL I,49), and “Ra-Hoor-Khuit” as “Kether, Unity, is always itself” (source: AC’s The New Comment to AL II,2). Describes “respectively Nuith and Hadit” as reflected “from the Ain and Kether” (source: AC’s The New Comment to AL II,5).

    Where AC states that “… this is characteristic of Ra-Hoor-Khuit, that He demands not words, but acts.”, (source: AC’s The New Comment to AL III,2)., that “Ra-Hoor-Khuit is the Crowned and Conquering Child. This is also a reference to the ‘Crowned’ and Conquering ‘Child’ in ourselves, our own personal God.”, (source: AC’s The New Comment to AL III,22), and “… that Ra-Hoor-Khuit is in one sense the Silent Self in a man …“, (source: AC’s The New Comment to AL III,62).

    And where AC states that “Ra-Hoor-Khuit; […] is finite form of Unity, child of two married infinities …”, (source: AC’s The New Comment to AL III,67).

Viewing 13 posts - 256 through 268 (of 268 total)
  • You must be logged-in to reply to this topic.