Home Forums Thelema Magick Liber Aleph translation

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  • #107724

    Andras Toth
    Participant

    Hi!

    I’m recently translating the text Liber Aleph to Hungarian, and I’d like to ask for a little help. Does anyone knows what the following phrase exactly means, and what the Degree symbolism behind it?

    “For the Sun ariseth not and entereth to
    strike upon the High Altar of the Minister by the Great Western Gates, but by the Rose Oriel
    doth he make Way and Progress in His Pageant”

    Thank You for help!
    Andras

    #107725

    ignant666
    Participant

    Crowley is very coyly, with much Christian religious symbolism, referring to the superior efficacy of anal sex [per vas nefandum] to vaginal sex for magickal purposes.

    A “rose oriel” is a rose window, a characteristic of Gothic cathedrals. They are often located in the “apse” (pronounced very similarly to the english word arse/ass, a possible pun?), which is usually at the eastern end of the cathedral, behind the altar, with the entrance doors to the west.

    At least in American english, the phrase “rosy red asshole” is a sort of set phrase. “Rosy fingered dawn” is one of Homer’s repeated epithets.

    So, Christians enter their cathedrals through the front door, located in the west, but even in those places, the true god- the sun- enters by shining on the altar through the “rose oriel” located in the east. He is advising that the magician should emulate the sun by the use of “rear entry”.

    The silver doors (of the front entrance) “are wide open and tempt thee with their Beauty: but by the narrow [nb!] Portal of Pure Gold shalt thou come nobly to thy Sanctuary”. The doors are bigger than the rose window on cathedrals. Silver is identified with the moon, and women. Gold is identified with the sun, and men.

    The rear entrance is superior because it “absorbeth all without Reproduction”, whereas the vagina is “seeking ever to enclose or restrict, reproducing in its own likeness what Impressions soever it made thereon”.

    A good general principal for interpreting particularly obscure passages by AC is that they are almost always about anal sex, heroin, or both.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  ignant666. Reason: add
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  ignant666. Reason: add general hermenutical observation
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  ignant666. Reason: add Homer bit
    #107749

    ignant666
    Participant

    Post a not-all-that-simple query, get a detailed and helpful response within about half an hour, and then…

    [two days pass]

    You’re welcome, Andras Toth.

    “Holy ungrateful Hungarian translators, Batman!” said the Boy Wonder.

    #107751

    Tiger
    Participant

    Nice translation ignant666 !

    Any illustrators around ?

    #107783

    mayet
    Participant

    that’s it, I’m out. *packing up my toys and going home… as a female 85 % heterosexual with IBS I have no chance of making progress in this particular pageant then…

    #107784

    ignant666
    Participant

    Oh, don’t be in too much of a hurry, mayet.

    Neither use of heroin, nor employment of the “rose oriel”, are required of Aleister Crowley Society members, or even of Thelemites.

    AC’s, um, predilection for the trangressive, and somewhat peculiar understanding (even for his time) of the biology of human reproduction, led to the sex magick practices he is advocating here.

    Separating out the gold from the dross of “The Demon Crowley” in AC’s work is half the fun.

    #107797

    mayet
    Participant

    “ignant666”

    Oh, don’t be in too much of a hurry, mayet.

    Neither use of heroin, nor employment of the “rose oriel”, are required of Aleister Crowley Society members, or even of Thelemites.

    phew.. I never did like heroin…

    Separating out the gold from the dross of “The Demon Crowley” in AC’s work is half the fun

    half the fun? I think it is all the fun, reading between the lines, seeing what he was really saying because I have found I can read a line a thousand times and get a different aspect to it each time…..

    then when I had the breakthrough, I reread it all again and realised that he knew what I was seeing all along, which left me more puzzled with a gazillion more questions than the answers I had… typical … lol

    • This reply was modified 3 days, 15 hours ago by  mayet.
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