Home Forums Thelema Magick Liber Aleph translation

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  • #107724

    Andras Toth
    Participant

    Hi!

    I’m recently translating the text Liber Aleph to Hungarian, and I’d like to ask for a little help. Does anyone knows what the following phrase exactly means, and what the Degree symbolism behind it?

    “For the Sun ariseth not and entereth to
    strike upon the High Altar of the Minister by the Great Western Gates, but by the Rose Oriel
    doth he make Way and Progress in His Pageant”

    Thank You for help!
    Andras

    #107725

    ignant666
    Participant

    Crowley is very coyly, with much Christian religious symbolism, referring to the superior efficacy of anal sex [per vas nefandum] to vaginal sex for magickal purposes.

    A “rose oriel” is a rose window, a characteristic of Gothic cathedrals. They are often located in the “apse” (pronounced very similarly to the english word arse/ass, a possible pun?), which is usually at the eastern end of the cathedral, behind the altar, with the entrance doors to the west.

    At least in American english, the phrase “rosy red asshole” is a sort of set phrase. “Rosy fingered dawn” is one of Homer’s repeated epithets.

    So, Christians enter their cathedrals through the front door, located in the west, but even in those places, the true god- the sun- enters by shining on the altar through the “rose oriel” located in the east. He is advising that the magician should emulate the sun by the use of “rear entry”.

    The silver doors (of the front entrance) “are wide open and tempt thee with their Beauty: but by the narrow [nb!] Portal of Pure Gold shalt thou come nobly to thy Sanctuary”. The doors are bigger than the rose window on cathedrals. Silver is identified with the moon, and women. Gold is identified with the sun, and men.

    The rear entrance is superior because it “absorbeth all without Reproduction”, whereas the vagina is “seeking ever to enclose or restrict, reproducing in its own likeness what Impressions soever it made thereon”.

    A good general principal for interpreting particularly obscure passages by AC is that they are almost always about anal sex, heroin, or both.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  ignant666. Reason: add
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  ignant666. Reason: add general hermenutical observation
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  ignant666. Reason: add Homer bit
    #107749

    ignant666
    Participant

    Post a not-all-that-simple query, get a detailed and helpful response within about half an hour, and then…

    [two days pass]

    You’re welcome, Andras Toth.

    “Holy ungrateful Hungarian translators, Batman!” said the Boy Wonder.

    #107751

    Tiger
    Participant

    Nice translation ignant666 !

    Any illustrators around ?

    #107783

    Anonymous

    that’s it, I’m out. *packing up my toys and going home… as a female 85 % heterosexual with IBS I have no chance of making progress in this particular pageant then…

    #107784

    ignant666
    Participant

    Oh, don’t be in too much of a hurry, mayet.

    Neither use of heroin, nor employment of the “rose oriel”, are required of Aleister Crowley Society members, or even of Thelemites.

    AC’s, um, predilection for the trangressive, and somewhat peculiar understanding (even for his time) of the biology of human reproduction, led to the sex magick practices he is advocating here.

    Separating out the gold from the dross of “The Demon Crowley” in AC’s work is half the fun.

    #107797

    Anonymous

    “ignant666”

    Oh, don’t be in too much of a hurry, mayet.

    Neither use of heroin, nor employment of the “rose oriel”, are required of Aleister Crowley Society members, or even of Thelemites.

    phew.. I never did like heroin…

    Separating out the gold from the dross of “The Demon Crowley” in AC’s work is half the fun

    half the fun? I think it is all the fun, reading between the lines, seeing what he was really saying because I have found I can read a line a thousand times and get a different aspect to it each time…..

    then when I had the breakthrough, I reread it all again and realised that he knew what I was seeing all along, which left me more puzzled with a gazillion more questions than the answers I had… typical … lol

    #107879

    Andras Toth
    Participant

    Dear ignant666!

    Thank You for Your help and rich explanation! And sorry not to respond immediately.

    #107880

    ignant666
    Participant

    Better thanked late than never i suppose, and glad i could be useful.

    Liber aleph is AC at his most Bible-aping-est, and thus appears quite cryptic at times.

    However, as i have offered you the Secret Key to the whole thing (the more ponderous and pseudo-Biblical the language, the greater the likelihood the passage refers to some forbidden sex act, or else drugs), you should do fine.

    #107886

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    ignant666: “However, as i have offered you the Secret Key to the whole thing (the more ponderous and pseudo-Biblical the language, the greater the likelihood the passage refers to some forbidden sex act, or else drugs), you should do fine.”

    Is this also the Secret Key to the more ponderous and pseudo-Biblical parts of Crowley’s The Book of the Law?

    #107889

    ignant666
    Participant

    Unfortunately not, so far as i have noticed.

    The advocacy of forbidden sex acts (adultery, eg), and drugs, in AL is quite open, and not at all couched in such language.

    This might be taken as be an indication that someone besides AC had a hand in the composition of AL, since it is so different from most of AC’s work in this regard.

    #107890

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    ignant666: “The advocacy of forbidden sex acts (adultery, eg), and drugs, in AL is quite open, and not at all couched in such language.

    This might be taken as be an indication that someone besides AC had a hand in the composition of AL, since it is so different from most of AC’s work in this regard.”

    In a Speech in the Silence Podcast titled A Sword in my Hand: The War-Machine of the Great Beast 666 (Part 1 of 2) by Tau Omphalos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqb1eX_uCQo (17 minutes 45 seconds within)), it is mentioned that Crowley was marked by a scandal that broke his A.’.A.’.. Because Crowley refused to help is second-in-command in this A.’.A.’., George Cecil Jones, Jr., when the latter in 1911 (unsuccessfully) sued a newspaper, the Looking Glass, for libellously associating him with Crowley by claiming that George Cecil Jones and Crowley was engaging in unspeakable acts (= homosexuality). Crowley was very scared for being outed as a practicing homosexual (at that time a criminal offence that had two years’ hard labour as the maximum sentence in England). And this caused Crowley to lose the two single most important people in the A.’.A.’..

    The quite open advocacy of forbidden sex acts (some of which was punishable by law in England at that time) in the English Citizen Crowley’s The Book of the Law, for example in Chapter I, verse 51; “… take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! …”, is a likely and obvious reason for why Crowley should spread a story about that at someone besides besides himself had a hand in the composition of this book.

    16 minutes and 33 seconds within the mentioned Podcast extract is mentioned how Crowley created a myth around himself as V.V.V.V.V., and that Crowley writes to Fuller concerning the importance of the Temple of Solomn the King “I think the vulgar must have miracles which are verily cheap, and a cheap thing seems to be to go on talking about it.” Here is also mentioned that Crowley later wrote to Fuller: “George [= George Cecil Jones, Jr.] thinks that your popular account of The Great Work as done in a manuscript at your disposal is the most useful thing to start interest.” And that Crowley with this account started to recruite aspiarants to his A.’.A.’..

    #107891

    ignant666
    Participant

    You really are impossibly tedious, and tendentious, wellreadwellbred.

    Do you have no reason to post except the bees buzzing in your bonnet?

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