Home Forums Administration LAShTAL.COM Problems and Suggestions Peter James Carroll/Chaos Magic section in Thanatos section?

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  • #110307

    dom
    Participant

    Paul,

    seeing as Peter J. Carroll has done so much to popularize AOS’s ideas would it be possible to have a Peter J. Carroll/Chaos Magic section in the Thanatos section?

    #110323

    lashtal
    Keymaster

    Doesn’t appear to have generated any support yet…

    #110324

    dom
    Participant

    Ok.

    #110325

    Horemakhet
    Participant

    It may be too specialized- a subset of potential topics stemming from latter day saints, as it were. We could more easily, I suspect, go slightly backwards chronologically & have a section on Éliphas Lévi & Friedrich Nietzsche as direct precursors… maybe Paul Gaugin & whomever was AC’s favourite poet as well (himself?😉).

    #110326

    ignant666
    Participant

    Swinburne, if memory serves (AC’s favorite poet besides himself).

    #110327

    Serpent 252
    Participant

    ignant666, your memory serves. Algernon Charles Swinburne had been the poet AC had respected (to the point of (…) see Francis King).

    It seems he also respected the Portuguese poet Fernando Pessoa.

    Also, AC had translated Charles Baudelaire’s Le Spleen de Paris (or Petits Poèmes en prose) to English & at least one poem by Paul Verlaine, En Sourdine, quoted in Diary of a Drug Fiend as “With muted strings”, p.290 in my copy (Sphere Books, Abacus edition pub. in 1979.)

    He (AC) had also written in that book (Diary):

    “as she paced she chanted that magnificent litany of Captain J. F. C. Fuller…”

    (She chanted The Hundred and Sixty-Nine Cries of Adoration and the Unity thereof, from Liber DCCCCLXIII, The Treasure–House of Images, Equinox I/III.)

    AC’s “a Poet” persona… not that bad?

    #110328

    Serpent 252
    Participant

    Not to forget the poets mentioned in the book Artemis Iota vel De Coitu Scholia Triviæ

    “There are also various classics of the subject, helpful to assimilate the romantic and enthusiastic atmosphere proper to practice of the Art; one may instance Catullus, Juvenal (especially the Sixth Satire), Martial, Petronius Arbiter, Apuleius, Boccaccio, Masucci, Francois Rabelais, de Balzac (Contes Drolatiques), de Sade (Justine, Juliette, et al), Andre de Nerciat, Alfred de Musset et Georges Sand (Gamiani: ou Deux nuits d’exces), Sacher-Masoch (Venus in Furs), with English and American too numerous to list, but notably the poets in Holy Orders: Swift, Sterne, Herrick, Donne, and Herbert.”

    (Also included in some editions of Magick without Tears, Chapter XV.)

    (I am really sorry for being too anal retentive.)

    #110329

    Tiger
    Participant

    will give his section on catastrophe theory
    another look
    merry xmas

    #110331

    dom
    Participant

    Carroll did more for AOS than anyone.

    #110332

    Horemakhet
    Participant

    If he did more then where are his paintings? Does he have any?… The honor here must go to Steffi Grant.

    #110333

    Tiger
    Participant

    I liked Phil Hine
    back in the day when i was immersing chaos
    Hine and Caroll are an easier in to AOS than AOS
    and Grant was a lead to AOS

    #110336

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    @dom :

    Peter James Carroll/Chaos Magic section in Thanatos section?

    Is PJC your latest guru figure now after Timothy Leary (and maybe Colin Wilson), dom?

    I can’t see a strong connection here and it will create an even greater dissipation and represent tenuous, diluted linkage since this site is primarily intended as the “non-occult” home of the Aleister Crowley Society (as opposed to Austin Spare & various other diverse magicians and interested parties [e.g. Colin Wilson]).

    Also there is nothing particularly original about so-called Chaos Magic as put forward by PJC in his Liber Null & Psychonaut, which I comprehensively demonstrated in my piece Will & the Wisp, and as you might have discovered if you had come across it. Unfortunately we don’t have PM anymore so you can’t be sent a pdf as I once offered to arrange for those interested (and here I would like to take this opportunity to thank and acknowledge Paul Toner for his generous assistance with this – talking of which, where are you man? We haven’t seen one of your contributions here for many a long moon – I hope you are keeping alive and well.) There’s 23 chapters in it, including one on the ‘Kia’ and another on the ‘HGA’ (not the same thing). At one time Chris Johnson at Skoob told me he wanted to publish it, but unfortunately he died before anything happened and so it’s been in limbo ever since. Our esteemed webmaster Paul Feazey was also at one time deliberating about whether to include it as a download on Lashtal or not but perhaps he didn’t consider it quite relevant enough to do so. It is relevant, however, inasmuch as in it I amply prove (with many examples) how Liber Null & Psychonaut rip off Crowley wholesale – not to mention a whole number of other magical and philosophical sources – and how it (CM) just doesn’t “add up”.

    So, there is very little in fact that’s new in Chaos Magic and it’s all rather – er – bogus.

    With compliments of the season to you,
    Norma N Joy Conquest

    #110337

    dom
    Participant

    It is relevant, however, inasmuch as in it I amply prove (with many examples) how Liber Null & Psychonaut rip off Crowley wholesale – not to mention a whole number of other magical and philosophical sources – and how it (CM) just doesn’t “add up”.

    ‘Ripped off’ Crowley? Haha. PJC openly admits in Liber Null that The Illuminates of Thanateros are the magical heirs to the Zos Kia Cultus and the A. *. A. ‘. so sure, of course there is overlap. In fact if you have a copy of Liber Null you should be able to see a flow chart that outlines all of the different historical tributaries of the magical tradition.

    ‘Ripped off’? Name me one idea that Crowley didn’t take from an earlier source apart from Liber Vel Jugorum…… but even that is a configuration of medieval self-flagellation or hairshirts.

    #110338

    Tiger
    Participant

    Trick or Treat
    grab some popcorn
    Tis the season to be saturnalian

    #110340

    dom
    Participant

    @tiger

    I liked Phil Hine
    back in the day when i was immersing chaos
    Hine and Caroll are an easier in to AOS than AOS
    and Grant was a lead to AOS

    Thankyou we have a yes. From what I’ve read of AOS’s written work it’s very off putting. PJC appears to be the introductory entrance to AOS.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  dom.
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  dom.
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