April 16, 2019 at 5:27 am #112385
There is a movie documentary out for a few years now about the Process Church called Sympathy for the Devil. Has anyone seen it?
The title of the movie is unfortunate as the Borg brings back mostly Rolling Stones information. So the movie is hard to find. Although DVD’s do seem to be available via snail mail I sure wish they would provide a streaming option as I live far away from the western world (where physical mail is still an efficient and viable option.)
from the wiki page (not entirely reliable as we know) I can see that they too were used as scapegoats for Charles Manson & Co:
“Prosecutors investigating the Los Angeles murders committed by the Manson Family in 1969 suggested that there were links between Charles Manson and the Process Church. Although no proof of such a connection was ever provided, the allegations damaged the Church’s reputation.”
Didn’t Solar Lodge suffer similar allegations and stigma by alleged association with Manson? Scientology has provable links to Manson. It’s interesting that other organizations were accused. Most definitely a smear campaign.
Also from wikipedia:
“The Church’s activities attracted the interest of a number of celebrities active in the realms of music and cinema, among them Marianne Faithfull.”
“In 1967 and 1968, the De Grimstones made various further international travels, spending time in East Asia, the United States, Germany and Italy; in the latter they visited the ruins of Thelema Abbey on Cefalu, the commune established in the 1920s by British occultist Aleister Crowley.”
I assume Crowley and his work was a major influence on the Process Church?
Has anyone at Lashtal had any experiences with The Process Church?
Has anyone at Lashtal seen this movie?
April 16, 2019 at 12:51 pm #112390
- This topic was modified 5 days, 12 hours ago by elitemachinery.
I did not know about this movie, but would certainly like to see it. I don’t think AC or his work were much of an influence on the Process. Scientology and the bible were their main sources.
There is a pretty good book Love Sex Fear Death: The Inside Story Of the Process Church of the Final Judgement by Timothy Wylie, published by Feral House.
The main source of the alleged links between the Process, Solar Lodge, and Scientology, and Manson is ex-Fugs singer and hippie poet Ed Sanders’ The Family: The Story Of Charles Manson’s Dune Buggy Attack Battalion. This is a good book, well worth reading for an “inside the counterculture” perspective sadly lacking in most work about Manson, which mostly reflects a law enforcement/anti-hippie/anti-psychedelics point of view.
However, Sanders was somewhat credulous and much in the book needs to be taken with several grains of salt. The first edition is quite different than subsequent editions due to lawsuits by the remains of Solar Lodge, The Process and perhaps the Scientologists (the unedited first edition stayed in print longer in the UK than in the US, so it may be easier to find from UK sources). Shiva may have more to add here as one of those slandered by Sanders due to him believing malicious gossip from a notorious drunk.
My father returned to our home in the woods from a meeting in NYC in the late ’60s- very early ’70s and reported being cornered by three hippies in long black capes who demanded money for their church very insistently. He escaped by taking their literature and having them write down the address where his non-existent financial manager could send in a major donation. Sadly he tossed everything before getting on his train home. Almost certainly the Process fundraising.
April 16, 2019 at 3:58 pm #112399
- This reply was modified 5 days, 5 hours ago by ignant666.
eLiteM: Didn’t Solar Lodge suffer similar allegations and stigma by alleged association with Manson?
Sure enough, the black finger of futility pointed at us (Nemo makes black fingers white). Process got a judgment and cash in court – Solar was offered $50,000, but Frater Sol (“Ippy”) refused, saying, “Gimmee More!” While waiting for “more,” the law changed. Sol was regarded as a “public figure” and thus not eligible for reparations to his dignity. Solar got nuthin’.
But the best part of this story is that Ed Sanders (author) was fed this drivel (at least about Solar Lodge) by none other than the Caliph McM, himself … the Machiavellian Manipulator.
Solar Lodge was recognized as a strand of the original lineage by McM and Seckler. It was only after McM died that the new Kahleef starting snipping threads.April 17, 2019 at 7:01 pm #112440
“There is a pretty good book Love Sex Fear Death: The Inside Story Of the Process Church of the Final Judgement by Timothy Wylie, published by Feral House…”
“The main source of the alleged links between the Process, Solar Lodge, and Scientology, and Manson is ex-Fugs singer and hippie poet Ed Sanders’ The Family: The Story Of Charles Manson’s Dune Buggy Attack Battalion. This is a good book, well worth reading for an “inside the counterculture” perspective..”
“My father returned to our home in the woods from a meeting in NYC in the late ’60s- very early ’70s and reported being cornered by three hippies in long black capes who demanded money for their church very insistently…”
On my last visit the the states I picked up both of these books but have only skimmed them. Thanks for the reminders. I have pulled them from the shelf and put them on the top of the pile. I was careful to get a first edition of The Family as I wanted to read the parts that were later removed as liable, but as usual I got distracted and never got around it. I will read and report back.
The experience of your father does sound like The Process. Although this doco seems to imply it was all a big joke. I’m not sure I believe that. When you are playing with archetypal energies the Gods don’t care whether you are joking or not. The magick works either way, and can scare the Jesus out of the locals as it seems to have done.
“But the best part of this story is that Ed Sanders (author) was fed this drivel (at least about Solar Lodge) by none other than the Caliph McM, himself … the Machiavellian Manipulator.”
I have been aware that the Ed Sanders book was refuted by these lawsuits. But I bought the first edition to read the libelous accounts first hand.
There was definitely an effort to blame Manson’s actions on spiritual groups. And they mislabeled Manson as a hippie which was clearly an action intended to smear the entire counter culture as crazed killers. There was also an effort to smear the people who died in the Tate house, as if they deserved it. One probably needs to look no further than who started these rumors to get insight into the real story and why they were so eager to spin the story in a certain way.April 17, 2019 at 7:12 pm #112442
Two books well worth your time, em.
Sanders’ book was certainly not “refuted”, most of it stands independently of the “sleazo inputs” (his term) chapters on SL, Process and Scientology. There is a whole lot of original reporting taking advantage of his status as a well-known beatnik/hippie from NYC; folks who never would have talked to Bugliosi et al. talked to him. He was just a little over-credulous in come cases, like when Grady started peddling dirt on the competition.
The main reason i think that Sanders wrote it is what you mention in your last paragraph: most books about Manson/The Family are “intended to smear the entire counter culture”, and assume that Manson et al. are typical acid-gobbling hippies and of course are easily swayed into becoming “crazed killers”.
Sanders’ POV is more “They did so much acid- how could they kill people?” instead of the usual “Of course they killed people, they did so much acid!”
April 17, 2019 at 7:38 pm #112451
- This reply was modified 3 days, 22 hours ago by ignant666.
Just watched the trailer em posted. It mentions (and shows) the long black cloaks several times, and that the purpose was to be intimidating.
My dad was a Korean War vet who flew 26 bombing missions over North Korea, and watched most of his friends get shot down and die. He did survival training that included evasion under live fire,and waterboarding and torture by ex-SS officers (“Now ve vill de-humanize you a little…”). He was 6 feet tall, about 225 lbs. and quite fit- not the most easily intimidated person in midtown Mahattan that day.
The hippies with long black cloaks who wanted money for their church scared him.April 18, 2019 at 1:23 am #112464
WIKIWATCH: The Wikipedia article on Solar Lodge has not changed. It’s been up for 48 hours. The beehive workers who attend to spinning must be asleep.April 18, 2019 at 5:29 am #112468
My dad was a Korean War vet who flew 26 bombing missions over North Korea…The hippies with long black cloaks who wanted money for their church scared him.
It sounds like they knew what they were doing, and were able to invoke the “Fear of God” in your father, something that we have all felt at one time or another.
“Fear of God refers to fear or a specific sense of respect, awe, and submission to a deity. People subscribing to popular monotheistic religions might fear divine judgment, hell or God’s omnipotence.”
You’re old man sounds a lot like my old man Lawrence, also a New Yorker and born 1919. Tough to the point of madness and quite the ball buster. I don’t think he ever cried once in his life, but he did show fear on the rare occasion. Larry got a pass on the draft in the 1940s due to a hand injury (ending up in Hollywood playing Dillinger in 1945) and the fact that he did not serve in WWII was the source of endless trolling on the part of men who did serve. It took me years to figure out what his “trigger” was but I think I finally got it. All one had to do is mention the war or ask Larry if “big tough guy Dillinger” ever served in the war or why he didn’t, and you’d have full on fisticuffs with broken jaws and bottles and cops, usually ending with Larry in the slammer for a few days. “I ain’t afraid of nuttin”, he’d say repeatedly while displaying the most menacing scowl he could muster. This probably meant he was in fact a little afraid.
If you drink with any really old guys at any really old bars in New York, ask around for some Lawrence Tierney stories, there are many, and people love telling them.
The reason I am fascinated by the attempts to link Manson to Crowley is because I do believe there is a connection in the Riddle of Aiwass. If you look closely at my birth certificate you will see the names Manson and Sutherland at the bottom.
Manson father/Sutherland son (the actual names)
Man sun follower/Sutherland sun (aleister crowley)
Manson follower/Southern land son (tate murders)
It another riddle.
This is where it gets strange, but being that it is spring and all lol, perhaps I can try to explain further.
I did touch on the riddle aspect of it in this thread:
Something strange was going on in Los Angeles in the 1960’s and I don’t think we’ve really solved the riddle of what it all was just yet. Although there have been many attempts to explain (movies, docos, tv shows, books.)
My theory is loosely that a CIA project to control the population through LSD got wildly out of control and produced an anti war movement and a bunch of freeloading hippies that couldn’t be sold washing machines. Essentially, it was a disaster.
An attempt was made to find and kill the source of this catastrophe and Sharon Tate and her unborn son were set up for the kill.
These horrifying murders were a psyop administered by hidden military factions that would serve to kill the hippie movement and scare the general public into submission. Promptly increasing the sales of washing machines and vacuum cleaners nationwide.
By the early 1970’s it was all over and Manson & Co. were the fall guys. Additionally, while Charlie and his “Manson followers” were on trial, attempts were made to dirty up anyone else the powers that be didn’t like (Solar Lodge, Process Church, etc.)
I’m not saying crimes were not committed by Manson and his team. Just that there is likely much more to the story and that they were likely funded and steered toward this end result by hidden factions.
You must be logged-in to reply to this topic.