Home Forums Thelema Magick Reductio ad absurdum as Emotional Plague

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  • #113060

    dom
    Participant

    page 206 Chapter 8 MEXICO Regardie’s Eye in the Triangle (New Falcon Publications 2011) Regardie is critical of Mannix’s “cynical denunciation of magic and occult fields”. He says that Symonds has a similar attitude. The entire field of psychical research denounced as fraud is something that Regardie could not accept.

    He states that such folk “must have a psychic scotoma of massive proportions …and (can) never acknowledge the existence of anything that might briefly challenge the narrow view they have formed of life. A larger wider outlook must be positively frightening to them. It is safer to rifdicule, condemn, to employ the method of reductio ad absurdum. This again is the Emotional Plague described so well by Reich.

    #113079

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    And so the point you’re making/ wanting to discuss is what?

    Where is the closing quotation mark meant to be in your second paragraph to distinguish your own comments from those of Regardie (or even Mannix)?

    Also, as usual it would be helpful to have a bit more to go on re. the quotes to round out the context a bit & all that. But it’s still a bit of a fag to have to type all that out, eh?

    Norma N Joy Conquest

    #113080

    dom
    Participant

    must have a psychic scotoma of massive proportions …and (can) never acknowledge the existence of anything that might briefly challenge the narrow view they have formed of life. A larger wider outlook must be positively frightening to them. It is safer to rifdicule, condemn, to employ the method of reductio ad absurdum. This again is the Emotional Plague described so well by Reich. is the quote.

    Well Jamie the title gives away what it’s about doesn’t it?. The context as I said is the scorn which AC’s biographers (prior to Regardie) poured on AC and particularly his interest in magic which, I am compelled to remind you, most people in society (especially so-called scientists) think is bullshit, eccentric and silly. Reminds me of our pal Los 9=2. Oh damn I mentioned him.

    #113081

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    @dom :

    Well Jamie the title gives away what it’s about doesn’t it?
    Well OK, I can’t imagine anyone disagreeing with that. (Reductio ad absurdum is [an example of] the Emotional Plague described so well by Reich.) So: where do we go from here then?

    […] Reminds me of our pal Los 9=2.
    What, he’s been promoted from 8=3? I must have missed the news, please fill me in do!

    Oh damn I mentioned him.
    Once upon a time that should have been sufficient to evoke his Presence. But not anymore it seems, alas & alack; needs must find new & further ways to conjure your one-time guru forth…

    … “Los, Los, Lama Sabachthani”?
    N Joy

    #113083

    the_real_simon_iff
    Participant

    dom, 93!

    You cleared up the quoting thingie (there were no end quotes), but you haven’t answered Jamie, concerning what is your point? Do you want to discuss Regardie’s view? Or Mannix’ views? Or simply say that Regardie used Reich as a kind of proof for his point?

    I don’t get it either.

    “A plague implies a highly contagious disease that can become epidemic (rapidly widespread) or pandemic (an epidemic throughout many countries).” (that’s from some Reich website) Now if you can tell me (us) how Mannix (probably .1 percent of current “Thelemites” have read him) or Regardie (probably 5 percent of current “Thelemites” have read him) are even qualified to talk about “emotional plagues”, I (we) might be able to jump in.

    Have you read Mannix?

    I think you have a point (the thread title at least has) but I don’t see what there is to discuss. If you take just your thread title you would be better off with Climate Change Denyers.

    What is your point exactly?

    Love=Law
    Lutz

    If you just want to state that early biographies of Crowley suck in many ways, you are right.

    #113088

    dom
    Participant

    The main point is that, ironically enough, the deniers of magic are more often than not functioning irrationally. Their denial is emotionally driven.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  dom.
    #113095

    the_real_simon_iff
    Participant

    OK, I didn’t get this.

    As it is the case with deniers, probably the deniers of there-is-no-such-thing-as-magic* are most of the time emotionally driven also. And the strict yay-sayers probably also… and since science is often emotionally driven also, many of those will quote the science findings to their liking.

    * insert a variety of denier-topics: climate change, gender issues, racism problems … take your pick.

    Love=Law
    Lutz

    #113098

    dom
    Participant

    . And the strict yay-sayers probably also

    Well yeah but the cynical biographers of AC were not those that wholly accept magic unquestioningly i.e. religionists, children or paranoid schizos. They were set-ting themselves up as rational commentators. As the overriding paradigms of the modern world are strictly materialist this particular type of hater’s hate is insidious because he has the preordained back-up of the status quo.

    Like our pal Los used to say when questioning those who accepted alternative paradigms (something like e.g.) “Go into your local bar and start talking about manifesting magic or communicating with entities and watch them laugh long and hard”

    In other words fear “the laughter of the folk folly” AL Cp3 17.

    #113104

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    @dom

    Like our pal Los used to say when questioning those who accepted alternative paradigms (something like e.g.) “Go into your local bar and start talking about manifesting magic or communicating with entities and watch them laugh long and hard”

    You seem to quote this with approval, but so bloody what? Why should I walk into my local pub and start talking “about manifesting magic or communicating with entities”. Why would I waste my time? And if I did do that, and got derided, what conclusion should I draw from that?

    Why should I, you or anybody else fear “the laughter of the folk folly”?

    #113106

    dom
    Participant

    Hypothetical situation Michael. Not a strictly “to do” exercise.

    #113109

    Shiva
    Participant

    I was once asked to write an article on Karate training for Black Belt magazine (1963). It got published.

    Than another martial arts mag put out the call for articles (1972). So I submitted an article about Aikido. It was an overview of the history, along with tales of seemingly superhuman performances.

    (These “superhuman” acts were merely early tales of the power of Chi (Chee-Qi-Ki-Prana), of which most people are at least vaguely familiar today).

    Uh, oh! This (article) was akin to walking in the pub and proclaiming: I am the Truth and in my turban is wrapped nothing but God!

    The editor wrote back to me and said he wasn’t interested in fairy tales. “What I want is stories where you go into an ethnic bar and insult their culture. I want to see multiple assailants and them all broken and bloody. When you can deliver that kind of stuff I’d be interested.”

    My career as a martial arts writer thus fell aside and I went on to pursue a Solar Angel. No, no, don’t feel sorry for me (or gloat at my dismal failure), for just 3 or so years ago I published Basic Aikido, and When Karate Came to America. I was there when it came. Even now, I have stopped grinding out the Megatron videos, and turned to writing The Mysteries of Tai Chi. As a gratuity, I will offer free pdf copies to LAShTAL readers, when it’s done. I am now on page 4.

    Putting all that personal stuff aside, the reactions of the pubsters and the editor give us reason to use a sense of discrimination as we promote Thelema and its attendant curiosities in the world … or as we envision ourselves striding into a crowded, racially-different, bar – and calling out insults.

    Therion called upon us to proclaim the principles of the A.’.A.’. everywhere (even so little as we understand), and he encouraged us to invite royalty and politicians into the OTO, so that Thelema might take hold in a more vigorous manner in the Establishment.

    Get a grip! Father, I have sinned. Mother, please look the other way. For I do not give a copy of the three-fold Book of Law to everyone that I meet, And I do not greet everyone by announcing, “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.”

    In terms of the Original Topic … yes, the biographers were bad. They were pre-judiced. That means, they already had their opinion and their specific mindset is easily spotted by modern (informed) readers.

    The earliest biography, if it can be called as such, The Star in the West, was a bit different. J.F.C. Fuller, who I believe rose to Brigadier, not bad, sort of set V.V.V.V.V., and his servant AC up on a pedestal … if I remember correctly. He later became disenchanted and had to be expelled … if I remember correctly.

    How shall we present him? Let me count the ways.

    #113110

    Tiger
    Participant

    oh cachinnateiophous

    yes
    let’s hear about J.F.C,

    the motion set going,
    and the disenchanted expulsion .

    and those
    emotionally called to posit
    Hypothetical situations , submitting count
    are also welcome .

    Perhaps reducing the side tracking
    to infer
    the post .

    #113112

    christibrany
    Participant

    @shiva
    Was JFC Fuller actually expelled or did he merely stop training with Crowley bc he was disgusted at AC’s lack of stand-by-your-man in the Looking Glass case with Jones?

    As for reductio ad absurdum, if magick didn’t ever work, then there wouldn’t be so many wannabes?

    #113116

    dom
    Participant

    @shiva

    was once asked to write an article on Karate training for Black Belt magazine (1963). It got published.
    Than another martial arts mag put out the call for articles (1972). So I submitted an article about Aikido. It was an overview of the history, along with tales of seemingly superhuman performances.
    (These “superhuman” acts were merely early tales of the power of Chi (Chee-Qi-Ki-Prana), of which most people are at least vaguely familiar today).

    Breaking 3 or 4 house bricks with side of hand?

    Uh, oh! This (article) was akin to walking in the pub and proclaiming: I am the Truth and in my turban is wrapped nothing but God!
    The editor wrote back to me and said he wasn’t interested in fairy tales. “What I want is stories where you go into an ethnic bar and insult their culture. I want to see multiple assailants and them all broken and bloody. When you can deliver that kind of stuff I’d be interested.”

    You know who J.Jonah Jamieson is? Reminds of him ha.

    My career as a martial arts writer thus fell aside and I went on to pursue a Solar Angel.

    J.J.J. gave you a blessing in disguise.

    No, no, don’t feel sorry for me (or gloat at my dismal failure)

    No I’m not, luckily it happened…well, not luck but something else.

    , for just 3 or so years ago I published Basic Aikido, and When Karate Came to America. I was there when it came. Even now, I have stopped grinding out the Megatron videos, and turned to writing The Mysteries of Tai Chi. As a gratuity, I will offer free pdf copies to LAShTAL readers, when it’s done. I am now on page 4.

    Alright!!

    Therion called upon us to proclaim the principles of the A.’.A.’. everywhere (even so little as we understand), and he encouraged us to invite royalty and politicians into the OTO, so that Thelema might take hold in a more vigorous manner in the Establishment.
    Get a grip! Father, I have sinned. Mother, please look the other way. For I do not give a copy of the three-fold Book of Law to everyone that I meet, And I do not greet everyone by announcing, “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.”

    3:39. and to each man and woman that thou meetest, were it but to dine or to drink at them, it is the Law to give. Then they shall chance to abide in this bliss or no; it is no odds. Do this quickly!

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  dom.
    #113119

    Shiva
    Participant

    CS: Was JFC Fuller actually expelled or did he merely stop …?

    It is my belief that I read that he was actually expelled. I cannot remember where. But expulsions were/are so common throughout the historical thread. It is one of the things that make me laugh (the number and frequency of expulsions). You aren’t reall anyone of merit until you’ve been expelled from at least one society.

    d: Breaking 3 or 4 house bricks with side of hand?

    No, that’s kid’s stuff. (Almost) anyone can be taught how to do that.

    d: Do this quickly!

    Oh, don’t be silly. Give me a few days to think about it.

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