Home Forums Thelema Thelema Seeking context for “The rule and purpose of the Order”

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    AC wrote the above to verse 32 that says “Obey my prophet! follow out the ordeals of my knowledge! seek me only!”

    Now, rules are especially important for monastic Orders and it must be what AC has in mind but he naturally takes it in the opposite direction of Restriction and towards unlimited freedom. Interestingly I noticed recently that the original Rule of the Knights Templars had 72 chapters, which is the same number as tarot cards, and is an important number to the Goetia.

    My question for students more experienced in this matter than myself is to which Order is AC referring to? This could mean: the Rule and Order consistent within the context of Liber Al itself, the Rule and Order of The Beast and or Ankh-af-na-khonsu, the AA, the OTO, or the Great White Brotherhood. In the New Comment he elaborates that supposedly (and I’m paraphrasing) it is necessary “for the development of freedom to have a highly-centrally controlled.”

    Whichever interpretation may be more or less true, it gives a lot of credence to Frater Shiva’s identification of a ‘Tong’ or Black Lodge to any order that contrives against individual or collective freedom. Furthermore it may imply that as a direct commandment from Nuit (“seek me only!”), any spiritual oath of obedience is in direct violation of the Law. Are Thelemic orders so constructed a giant trap at the expense of the oath bound initiates? The ramifications for this being the case are huge and I would like to hear others opinions, what do you think?



    This is hard to answer since it is confused, and confusing.

    There are 78 cards in a standard tarot deck, not 72.

    The Templar Rule included things like the number of horses each knight had to maintain, and other military matters, as well as normal monastic rules like celibacy and poverty. There is no esoteric component to this Rule, and the number of points to the Rule had no numerological import.

    Everything AC/Reuss believed about the Templars was false. The Templars were a Christian order; the charges against them were fabricated. Almost all retracted their confessions, which were the product of torture, and the desire of Philip for their money. Jacques de Molay would be horrified at the use of his name in a pagan or gnostic Mass, and, as a celibate Catholic, at the idea that “snowballing” or “eating cream pies” (as the IX activity is variously known in modern porn) offers spiritual advancement or occult power.

    What connection are you drawing between the AL verse you quote, and “the rule and purpose of the order”?

    You are certainly correct that there is great tension between the ideas of holy obedience/order discipline on the one hand, and what AL says, especially in the first chapter, on the other.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  ignant666.
    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  ignant666.


    yes very confusing

    Oaths Vows Rules Precepts
    are not to be taken lightly
    swearing and cursing are considered profane
    unless one is called to do so upon the bible in court

    hope that helps

    but yeah seriously
    effort less control takes work
    so you could be snowballing and at the stage of going through the motion until you get an appreciation for it
    you could take a period of abstinence
    or a period of modesty
    even a period of excess
    until you get an appreciation for it
    i think the correct number it takes to imbibe the cream pies in order to get the hang of it is 64

    or you could get out of the way and just flow with it
    either way it takes a lot of work to figure out the daoist wu wei
    let the slaves find in it work
    magnify the Pharaonic star seed
    sweat and shine

    some are at the stage or need a monastic setting others don’t

    just some thoughts
    not that i’m more experienced



    The Black Lodge put a spell on the worldling
    making them ashamed of the life forming waters
    and seminal metamorphic determination



    rl: … 72 chapters, which is the same number as tarot cards, and is an important number to the Goetia.

    78 Tarot cards. Yes, 72 is a number to watch.

    to which Order is AC referring to?

    No “Order” or “order” was mentioned in your quote. It says “Obey my Prophet.” Now AC personally held a firm grip on his “Prophet’s Authority to Issue Orders” in both the OTO and the A.’.A.’.. In OTO, one swears an Oath of Obedience to the Grand Master at the I*. In A.’.A.’., there are no Oaths of Obedience, but the official “Papers” include an admonition to obey the orders of the A.’.A.’. (as presumably passed on by his “superior.”

    Here’s a couple bottom-line answer to your question(s):

    “”The book says, Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. What else do you want?”
    Mr. White (1984)

    “The book also says There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt. What else do you want?”
    Shiva (2019)

    In one of the beginning OTO rites, the candidate is lectured on the rigidity of a tent pole (The Will of Saladin or the Grand Master) and how it supports and gives shape to a floppy fabric (the candidate). The obligation of obedience is thus “justified” or “explained” to the candidate.

    In broader terms, the aspirant doesn’t know his/her Will or Angel or anything useful. A guru takes him/her on, and assumes the temporary status of the student’s HGA. So obeying the guru is submitting unto obedience of the guru … in preparation for obeying instructions from the HGA when one finally gets to have a direct chat.

    This relationship is valid if the guru is really a Guru 8=3.

    But it goes haywire in two major ways:

    1. If the guru is not really a Guru 8=3, all sorts of personality defects creep into the guru’s orders.

    2. The guru is possibly an Adeptus, and does a pretty good job of guiding the student, so that the student is finally fit and prepared to move on to his/her independent operation at Tiphereth. But the guru hangs on, refusing to “graduate” the student, thus keeping him/her “under orders” and control.

    Both of these examples are common; the constitute the majority of methodology employed by most spiritual teachers … then/now/to-come.



    Thank you Frater Shiva that is an amazing reply. Elsewhere you have said it is not possible for aspirants to pledge obedience to ascended masters like Aiwass or Ankh-af-na-khonsu since there is no direct link to the Great White Brotherhood. Does this mean the text and manuscript of Liber Al is itself “the Order” with attendant grades, signs, and ordeals?

    Incidentally earlier today I read this quote in a broader analysis of Ch III of Liber Al that I think provides some subtext to Crowley’s comment and possible misinterpretations:

    “This is where the [c]O.T.O. went way off course in their interpretation. Now mind you this: the Universe is mental. The thoughts which we “foritfy” and “dung” with words become manifestations in our inherent phenomena. To misunderstand this is to poorly misinterpret the Ageless Wisdom. To expound these verses exoterically after literally dozens of warnings and symbols drawing attention to a mis-spelling of the formula shows not only mental imbalance and laziness among those who utilized this Law to instigate war, but also represents the actual mental state of the collective consciousness of the world at this time. In that, the Book of the Law served its purpose by cleansing the world of those souls that flung themselves recklessly into the game of world domination. For it is only souls that will to war that will actually fight in or instigate a war- which of itself rid the world of the Dying God of self-sacrifice.”


    Is this a final “blind” Crowley bequeathed to his followers? And if so, can (or should!?) the OTO rites be internalized without an outer order and still realize its fraternal aims? Difficult questions I’m sure. And before someone else says it yes I know I can “do what tho wilt” but the questions remain.



    rl: Elsewhere you have said it is not possible for aspirants to pledge obedience to ascended masters like Aiwass or Ankh-af-na-khonsu since there is no direct link to the Great White Brotherhood.

    I don’t remember making such a pronouncement, but I could have said something along those lines, but my radar says your quote is slightly out of context or incomplete.

    One can pledge allegiance to anything or anyone, but it helps to have some form of communication open. So most folks can’t get in touch with Aiwass or Ra-Hoor or Ankh, but they can get in touch with their “superior” in any Order, or they can dialogue with their HGA (if that connection has been activated), or they can obey a guru.

    Note: All Oaths in A.’.A.’. are taken as a contract with one’s self. All OTO Oaths of Obedience are to the Grand Master, who is not directly accessible, so one has to go to the G.’.M.’.’s sergeant, who is Saladin or some other Lodge Master.

    I would say the “Obey my Prophet!” phrase is best fulfilled by doing the practices he set forth, guided in order by the official curriculum (Liber XIII – Graduum Muntis Abiegni) and manifesto (One Star in Sight). The practices would be the Class D publications. The Prophet also wrote that one should study Liber AL, and if they found anything that pertained to them, to follow up on it. Many charges are made to Perdurabo himself, and do not pertain to the usual aspirant. Sometimes it’s hard to see who’s being “charged.”

    Does this mean the text and manuscript of Liber Al is itself “the Order” with attendant grades, signs, and ordeals?

    There is but one spectrum of consciousness. Each of us occupies certain segments or bands in this spectrum. We tend to get along with others who share our same freuencies.

    This spectrum is invisible (except in the visible light range). ALL Orders are attempts to duplicate that vast spectrum, and to assign names, numbers, symbols, etc. Either the A.’.A.’. system, based on the Tree of Life, or the Theosophical system of Seven planes of Consciousness, can be considered the most accurate framework for revealing the invisible spectrum to us gringos in the West.

    “The Ordeals I write not.” Get it? The ordeals are crises in control of the various vehicles. You do the practices. The universe will respond, when the time is right, and you will find yourself in a situation wherein you must demonstrate control of the vehicle being tested (physical, astral, mental, etc).

    “Those who are accepted by the Master Therion simply find themselves in circumstances where the only way out is by demonstrating control.” – this is a very loose paraphrase of AC’s writing.

    The point is, if a guru has real mojo (not fluff and claim), his/her students will be accelerated through the cises, the ordeals, without anything being done to them. Acceleration also is possible with “strange drugs,” as advocated in AL.



    I agree with you wrote above. With regards to this point there is a theory I would like to share:

    The Prophet also wrote that one should study Liber AL, and if they found anything that pertained to them, to follow up on it. Many charges are made to Perdurabo himself, and do not pertain to the usual aspirant. Sometimes it’s hard to see who’s being “charged.”

    I like the theory of Oliver St. John (I believe in Babalon Unveiled but it might be in another source) that the Egyptian cult of Khonsu had their priests adopt the title and name Ankh-af-na-khonsu and thus anyone who accepts the teachings of the Book and the message to the gods ON the Stele may aspire to the same role as Ankh-af-na-khonsu and therefore become themselves a “prophet of the lovely Star.” Thus all charges in the text become a personal message of the divine and Crowley’s sometimes drastic misinterpretations of the text as only relevant to him is a veil to conceal the tantra.



    rl: Thus all charges in the text become a personal message

    Okay. Have you eaten the flesh of your enemies yet? (AL III-11)

    What’s this? Cannibalism in the new aeon?

    Do you know that when you check in to the Hotel Heliopolis (Room number 5=6), that you’re going to get your own Book of Your Own Law? It may be written down by you, the scribe. Or it may take some other form (a painting, a mathematical formula, an opera), depending on your “ray” and your personal neuro-configuration.

    I see your intellectual dilemma. Let’s cut to the chase and capture: You only have one duty – to build a temple in which you can meet, and have a (two-way dialog) chat, with your HGA (whatever that term means to you – not many people actually “see” an Angel).

    Then that Angel will guide or direct you down the path you need to take. This “guidance” is not continuous. It is intermittent and comes into play when you need a “course correction.”

    “Building a Temple” (mentioned above) means getting control of all your lower faculties (body, emotions, limbic mind, cultural bias). Practices for gaining this control are given in Class D publications. If you have a mentor or a guru, then you obey him or her (if it really gets psychotic on the guru’s part, then leave and start over).

    If you chat with your Angel, then obey any directives. Eventually, you’ll get to the point where you’re operating on intuition, and any name or form or concept will not be involved. Wu-wei is the ultimate goal. (Look it up if you don’t understand Chinese).

    But if you’re still building that Temple (Outer Order Slave Labor Practices), and you’ve not got a Golden Guru, a spark off the cosmic bonfire, to guide you, and you want to literally take on the Rules and Charges that apply to a Magus, then you are (of course) free to attempt such a feat. If it works, you’ll be the next Magus in the long-contested heirdom of Aleister.

    Aiwass has been correlated with Kether (see A.’.A.’. Imprimatur), Ra-Hoor has been identified with Kether (the Seat in the East). Megatron identifies this “ashram” as 1.2 Overlord. If (IF) you have access to this throne room, then you will probably want to take orders cheerfully.

    Ankh and Therion are correlated with Chokmah. Megatron calls this 1.3 Warlord, on the first ray. If you have direct access to this “ashram,” then you’ll probably want to follow any orders that are issued.

    V.V.V.V.V., A.M.D., 61, Nemo (black & white hands), and any true Guru (Guru means “Light & Dark) are all associated with Binah. If one has direct access to this level, also called the buddhic plane, then one would be in touch with one’s own Atma or Universal Self, so no orders need be taken, because one has become none and all this contradictory rele-making and orders being followed has fallen away.

    “Nothing is a Secret Key …” Nothing, nada, nyet, 61. These all imply a zero-point, a perfect balance. That’s the goal. To get there, I guess you’re looking for a central authority figure in a written document. Goodness, but there’s Nuit, Hadit, and Ra-Hoor, followed by Therion/Ankh, and exponded by V.V.V.V.V., who was not mentioned in AL.

    No wonder some people just give up and go off to find a guru or a Grand Master.

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