Home Forums Thelema Thelema Sex magick and Thelema are two different things.

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  • #108886

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    @wellreadwelllbred :

    And with respect to The Book of the Law because it quite openly advocates sex acts illegal in England at the time of the writing, for example in Chapter I, verse 51; “… take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will! …”

    No it doesn’t! It’s talking about love — and as we know, there are love and love. However it does not say (for example): “take your fill and will of anal sex as ye will, when, where and with whom ye will”, does it? (And nor does it say “how ye will” either. which arguably might at a squeeze fit in per vas nefandum…)

    (Not) reading between the lines,
    N Joy

    #108888

    ignant666
    Participant

    which arguably might at a squeeze fit in per vas nefandum… [emphasis added]

    I saw what you did there, as the kids say.

    #108896

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    Jamie J Barter: “(And nor does it say “how ye will” either. which arguably might at a squeeze fit in per vas nefandum…)”

    The Book of the Law, “Chapter I, verse 51; “… take your fill and will of love as ye will, …”

    “as you wish – definition and synonyms […] Phrase spoken formal […]
    1 used for telling someone that they can do or have whatever they want
    Of course. As you wish, sir. […]
    2 used for telling someone to do what they want, even though it is not what you want them to do”
    (Source: https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/as-you-wish)

    The above definition of “as you wish”, adapted to Crowley’s The Book of the Law‘s (Chapter I, verse 51) “as ye will”:
    1 used for telling us all that we can do or have whatever we will(, with respect to love.)
    2 used for telling us all to do what we will(, with respect to love), even though it is not what others want us all to do

    #108908

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    *Sigh!* I notice, wrwb, that you make no reference at all whatsoever to the main point I made in the remainder of the post in question (=that there was no reference at all made whatsoever to any illegal acts in the verse which you quoted) but prefer instead to zero in on one sentence, of a parenthetical nature, where you obviously felt yourself to be on safer ground. I concede, you could offer up that interpretation which you gave there: as it stands it would not be incorrect; however speaking for myself my first thought wouldn’t be so much that, as that “take your fill and will as ye will” rather means, “take your fill and will according to whatever circumstances you may find yourself in”, i.e. sort of a more que sera sera type of thing.. And as stated, I would think that”… how ye will” would have drawn the matter out further, insofar as it might relate to any sexual technique(s) involved (e.g., p.f.n.).

    N Joy

    #108919

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    The Book of the Law, Chapter III, 24. “The best blood is of the moon, monthly: then the fresh blood of a child, or dropping from the host of heaven: then of enemies; then of the priest or of the worshippers: last of some beast, no matter what.”

    The preceding words quoted from Crowley’s The Book of the Law (the first among the Holy Books of his Thelema), were understood by him as refefring to Sex Magick, a fact which also gives me reason to disagree with the statement that Sex magick has nothing to do with the Thelema associated with him.

    “Blood of the moon = menstrual blood.

    Fresh blood of a child = mingled sexual fluids collected after an act of sacremenatal sex.

    Dropping from the host of heaven = semen.” (Source: The Book of The Law Study Group 3.24 – – – http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=157951)

    “The best blood is of the moon (menstrual blood), monthly: then the fresh blood of a child, or dropping from the host of heaven (semen/blood): then of enemies; then of the priest or of the worshippers: last of some beast, no matter what. (AL III:24)” (Source: Lady Gaga Blood & Semen perfume? – – – https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?p=1059635955 (davidicke.com is a net site about conspiracies).)

    “… the host of heaven, i.e. the Sun and Moon and stars.” (Source: IAO131’s book HRILIU: Symbolic Explorations of the Gnostic Mass, 2016, page 280.)

    Above are various interpretations of the terms “blood of the moon”, “the fresh blood of a child” and “the host of heaven”. Are the above interpretations correct?

    It seems logical that “mingled sexual fluids collected after an act of sacremenatal [sic.] sex” is what the term “fresh blood of a child” refers to with respect to sex magic, as it takes both male and female sexual fluids to conceive a child.

    But could not the said mingled sexual fluids also be referred to with the term “the host of heaven” (that is “the Sun and Moon and stars.”)? Because “the host of heaven” encompasses both “sun” and “moon”, and sun and moon are words used within The Book of the Law (Chapter I, verse 16.) used to symbolize a male and a female: “For he is ever a sun, and she a moon. But to him is the winged secret flame, and to her the stooping starlight.”

    As for the words “dropping from the host of heaven” = semen, and “the host of heaven” can be interpreted to refer to among other things “the sun”, did Crowley refer to the penis as a symbol for “the host of heaven”, or as a symbol for the lord of “the host of heaven”?

    #108920

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    “… fresh blood of a child”, does according to another member of this site refer to “male ejaculation”. (Source: https://www.lashtal.com/forums/topic/male-dominated-forum-why-how/page/2/#post-108803)

    I am not aware of any source like for example Thelemapedia: The Encyclopedia of Thelema & Magick, containing exact definitions of the words “blood of the moon”, “fresh blood of a child” and “dropping from the host of heaven”, as used in The Book of the Law, Chapter III, verse 24.: “The best blood is of the moon, monthly: then the fresh blood of a child, or dropping from the host of heaven: then of enemies; then of the priest or of the worshippers: last of some beast, no matter what.”

    #108921

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    “…then of enemies… then of… last of…”

    So how exactly would the rest of the verse fit in with this analogy? Why stop less than halfway — is it because it doesn’t (fit in)?

    NB With my PC beginning to play up again,
    N Joy

    #108924

    Shiva
    Participant

    Thread Title: Sex magick and Thelema are two different things

    Oh? What ever happened to:
    “Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby there cometh hurt.” ?

    #108925

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    @wellreadwellbred

    “… fresh blood of a child”, does according to another member of this site refer to “male ejaculation”. (Source: https://www.lashtal.com/forums/topic/male-dominated-forum-why-how/page/2/#post-108803)

    The post to which you link is by ignant666, and says:

    Thank you, Captain Obvious; see several posts above saying the same re AC’s sexism as potentially off-putting to many women, albeit more cogently.

    Re quote #1: Do you (wrwb) actually imagine women generally view menstrual blood as “what scares them”?

    Re quotes #1 & #2: Or is it that you (wrwb) actually imagine that heterosexual women generally view male ejaculation (the activity described in the verses you quote, as you perfectly well know) as “what scares them”?

    I see nothing in this post which states or even suggests that “fresh blood of a child” is a reference to “male ejaculation”. Your post is nonsense; quelle surprise.

    #108926

    Tiger
    Participant

    Sexual fluids blood kalas
    correct me if i read or understand things wrong or even on the wrong tracks .

    Grant i believe mentions that the sexual magickal fluids are less scientific and more akin to chakra’s
    it’s more of a tone or a pitch and intuitive understanding than a subscription ?

    STD how does that come in to the picture ?
    can one get an sTD form eating cakes of Light ?

    where is magispiegel ?

    #108927

    Tiger
    Participant

    correction : replace subscription with prescription .

    #108928

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    Michael Staley: “I see nothing in this post which states or even suggests that “fresh blood of a child” is a reference to “male ejaculation”.”

    “Re quotes #1 & #2: […] male ejaculation (the activity described in the verses you quote, as you perfectly well know) …”, are the words in the post by ignant666 to which I link is, suggesting that “fresh blood of a child” is a reference to “male ejaculation”.”

    The “quotes #1 & #2:” mentioned by ignant666, refers thee following quotes used by me in my first posting on page two of the thread titled Male dominated forum. Why? How?:

    ““12. Sacrifice cattle, little and big: after a child.” “24. The best blood is of the moon, monthly: then the fresh blood of a child, […].” “25. This burn: of this make cakes & eat unto me. …”. (Source: The Book of the Law (Chapter III, verse 12, 24, and 25.)
    […] “21. Then again the master shall speak as he will soft words, and with music and what else he will bring forward the Victim. 22. Also he shall slay a young child upon the altar, and the blood shall cover the altar with perfume as of roses.” (Source: Liber 66, verse 21 and 22.)”

    “the fresh blood of a child” is the reference to “male ejaculation” in the first quote, and “he shall slay a young child upon the altar, and the blood shall cover the altar”, is the reference to “male ejaculation” in the second quote.

    “… ‘Liber Stellae Rubeae’, describes the ejaculation of the sperm in a sexual rite under the disturbing metaphor of child sacrifice: ‘Also he shall slay a young child upon the altar, and the blood shall cover the altar with perfume as of roses. Then shall the master appear as He should appear—in His glory’.42 Who is this master? It would appear that it is the sperm understood in its metaphysical aspect. The same idea is entertained, inter alia[= among other things], in the chapter from The Book of Lies, called ‘Dewdrops’, where the sperm is equated with the “Dew of Immortality”, and described as ‘the Quintessence and Elixir of [man’s] being’, with the following admonition: ‘Let this go free, even as It will; thou art not its master, but the vehicle of It’.43
    There are scattered allusions in Crowley’s writings to the effect that the human sexual secretions, in their religious connotation, constitute the secret or “silent” Self of the person. This secret Self is occasionally equated with the “Babe in the Egg of Blue”, and identified as the god of silence, Hoor-Pa-Kraat (Harpocrates), one of the principal Thelemic deities. The “egg” in question is ‘not only Akasha, but the original egg in the biological sense. This egg issues from the lotus, which is the symbol of the Yoni [vagina]’.44 …”

    (Source: The preceding quote is taken from page 96 and 97 in Solve et Coagula: Attitudes Toward the Ambrosial Aspects of Human Seed in Certain Yogic Traditions and in the Sexual Magick of Aleister Crowley* [*) This is a revised version of a paper read at the 3rd International Conference of the Association for the Study of Esotericism (Charleston, SC: May 29 – June 1 2008). My thanks to Marco Pasi and William Breeze who read an earlier draft and provided useful comments.] by Gordan Djurdjevic (Department of Humanities, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby) in ARIES 10.1 (2010) 85-106)

    #108929

    pegasus
    Participant

    just a thought sperm is life… it creates life and lives… so transmuting it’s natural state is full of possibilities … one sperm cell is just one universe in a multiverse

    and sperm is fascinating because I don’t contain any as female… ???

    Still working out blood and bubbles.. tiny bubbles of bright red contained in dark red

    I need a lab … lol

    with Parsons blowing himself up that thought is a major ponderance

    I still get a laugh from remembering Ares and oral .. “here hunny, eat the kids”…

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  pegasus.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  pegasus.
    #108936

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    wellreadwellbred: “My [= Gordan Djurdjevic’s] thanks to Marco Pasi and William Breeze who read an earlier draft and provided useful comments.”

    The William Breeze referred to is the current “Outer Head of the Order / O.H.O.” of the Ordo Templi Orientis. (Source: http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Hymenaeus_Beta).

    The Marco Pasi referred to “is Associate Professor (UD1) in History of Hermetic philosophy and related currents.”, and the author of Aleister Crowley and the Temptation of Politics. (Source: http://www.uva.nl/profiel/p/a/m.pasi/m.pasi.html)

    Among Marco Pasi’s published articles are: “”L’anticristianesimo in Aleister Crowley (1875-1947)”, in PierLuigi Zoccatelli (ed.), Aleister Crowley – Un mago a Cefalù, Mediterranee, Roma 1998 (proceedings of the conference of Cefalù, Febr. 1997).”, “”Aleister Crowley” and “Golden Dawn”, in Jean Servier (ed.), Dictionnaire critique de l’ésotérisme, Presses Universitaires de France, Paris 1998.”, ““The Influence of Aleister Crowley on Fernando Pessoa’s Esoteric Writings”, in: Richard Caron, Joscelyn Godwin, Wouter J. Hanegraaff, et Jean-Louis Vieillard-Baron (eds.), Esotérisme, gnoses & imaginaire symbolique – Mélanges offerts à Antoine Faivre, Louvain, Peeters, 2001.”, “The Neverendingly Told Story: Recent Biographies of Aleister Crowley”, in Aries: Journal for the Study of Western Esotericism, III, 2 (2003).”, and ““Aleister Crowley”, “Samuel Liddell Mathers”, “Ordo Templi Orientis”, and “William W. Westcott”, in: Wouter J. Hanegraaff et al. (eds.), Dictionary of Gnosis and Western Esotericism, Leiden – Boston, Brill, 2005.” (Source: http://www.parareligion.ch/sunrise/pasi/biopasi.htm)

    What Gordan Djurdjevic covered in his article Solve et Coagula: Attitudes Toward the Ambrosial Aspects of Human Seed in Certain Yogic Traditions and in the Sexual Magick of Aleister Crowley, is among other things, also covered in his book India and the Occult: The Influence of South Asian Spirituality on Modern Western Occultism (Palgrave Studies in New Religions and Alternative Spiritualities) Hardcover – May 21, 2014 (Source: https://www.amazon.com/India-Occult-Spirituality-Alternative-Spiritualities/dp/1137404981/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1534062113&sr=1-3&keywords=Gordan+Djurdjevic&dpID=51pA3BtG8WL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch)

    #108937

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    @ignant666

    “Re quotes #1 & #2: […] male ejaculation (the activity described in the verses you quote, as you perfectly well know) …”, are the words in the post by ignant666 to which I link is, suggesting that “fresh blood of a child” is a reference to “male ejaculation”.”

    So wellreadbred, to judge from the above quote, now regards you as the authoritative source for the phrase “fresh blood of a child” as referring to “male ejeculation”. Is he correct in this?

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