Home Forums Thanatos Austin Osman Spare Spare, the animal and karma.

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  • #110298

    William Thirteen
    Participant

    We are all (every one of us) responsible for anything and all that we perceive.

    that’s why they developed the ‘block’ function on the forums 😉

    #110299

    dom
    Participant

    @ignant666

    I don’t think you have even made a very convincing case that AOS says this either, but then, again, i know nothing about his occult writings, and can only say he was a superb artist

    But strictly speaking I’m not ‘making a case’ on ‘whether AOS said’ this or that as I am not an expert on AOS. My OP was also a request for information regarding this. As follows;

    I don’t think Spare ever spoke about karma in relation to his magic sigil spells. Is he considered to be a black magician therefore?

    ignant666 said;

    However, you are conflating what AOS may or may not say about karma and magick with what Michael has said about the same topic in this thread, which are not the same thing. Michael has said nothing that remotely indicates that he “totally disagree[s] with AC’s warnings about black magic and [that his] philosophy is ignore that because anything goes so satisfy all of your whims”.

    Maybe a conflation between Michael and AOS there yes. By the way I have yet to apply logic to written sentences and arguments. I am at teh last stages of truth tree exercises thanks.

    On the subject of AOS, Michael stated that AOS had no notion of HGA (in Thelema the HGA is the moral arbiter). AC wrote about any deviation from the straight line up to the HGA as being deviation and is therefore black magic ie brings karmic penalties.

    AOS had contempt for the Cabbalah, for ceremony and for Crowley. He dropped out of the A’A’ pretty early on. I strongly suspect that AOS also had contempt for AC’s HGA moral karma admonitions also. I conclude from that that AC would therefore have viewed AOS as a black magician. Wouldn’t you say? Michael’s point about AOS functioning outside of the HGA ‘paradigm’ eliminates culpability thereby is an interesting one and which veers towards the world of chaos magick where morality and belief are seen as no more than tools.

    I thought Michael or someone else may know. Never mind.

    @shiva

    We are all (every one of us) responsible for anything and all that we perceive. The fact that this level of responsibility is not acknowledged by our mind is due to the cosmic scenario wherein nobody gets to know (via gnosis) about their debt ’till they engage in an encounter with themselves at Binah.
    Before Binah (B.’.B.’.), all problems and troubles tend to be attributed to the actions of others, who we can criticize and condemn.

    But there are many who perceive/accept their karma debts before they become 8=3

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  dom.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  dom. Reason: chaos magic
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  dom. Reason: better distribution paragraphs and grammar edit
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  dom. Reason: editing/improvement
    #110303

    Shiva
    Participant

    D: But there are many who perceive/accept their karma debts before they become 8=3

    Yes. They are the Adepti, the one’s who are working/burning off ancestral and personal karma. But this is not a matter of accepting the burden of everything perceived. It takes a dip in Samadhi accompanied (caused) by the loss of the sense of a separate self.

    #110305

    ignant666
    Participant

    Shiva: The word must have been mumbled to you by your Angel, or maybe you had the TV on too loud.

    I don’t have TV in the broadcast/cable sense, though i do own a device called a TV, but it was not at fault. Merely my usual lack of attention to Divine Guidance, i would guess.

    david: I have yet to apply logic to written sentences and arguments.

    Aha. We can only await that time when you get around to this with bated breath.

    I will now, as an AOS ignoramus, bow out, having refereed my share of the day’s sparring.

    #110306

    dom
    Participant

    I will now, as an AOS ignoramus, bow out, having refereed my share of the day’s sparring.

    Ignant I suggest you read this classic on the subject of AOS inspired magic;

    merry xmas from me to yea;

    https://zalbarath666.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/peter-j-carroll-liber-null-psychonaut.pdf

    #110309

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    @dom

    (in Thelema the HGA is the moral arbiter)

    I’ve never heard that one before. I was under the impression that the Holy Guardian Angel masked something deep and profound, rather than being little more than a Sunday School teacher.

    Zos Kia has no concept of “direct karmic responsibility” because the Kia is the totality, the pleroma, which is our true identity. Its emphasis is not on the human being, but on the wider and deeper identity that lies beyond it, and out of which phenomena emerge, flourish awhile, then fall back, emerging again in fresh configurations.

    To describe Spare as a black magician because he did not conform to your spectacularly ill-thought-out concept of “direct karmic responsibility” is in my view absurd.

    #110312

    Shiva
    Participant

    If we’re examining “higher states,” which seems to be the case, maybe we better keep in mind that the 6th, Electric, neurocircuit (attributable to Geburah) lies in the realm covered by the so-called HGA. One of the surprising attributes of this circuit is Amorality.

    That means, “without morals,” or “against morality.”

    Let’s try to keep things in the boxes they came in. Morals, and our conformity or non-conformity to them, is found in the House of Victory, down in the dark cellar of Netzach. Cultural bias, familial programming, and confrontation of the id (the Beast) are all encountered in the green mansion (Manson?), and they must be equilibrated before one can even chat with the HGA via long-distance phartsmone, fax, or email (much less in person, wherein the HGA tells us how to think and behave, like (as mentioned) a Sunday School teacher.

    Historically, folks who get up into the Electric circuit tend to start causing change, and the Establishment (represented by some LAShTALian posters) immediately cries out, “Immoral!” or “Amoral” or “He’s a rotten person!”

    A Code of Morals is described precisely in both Book 4 and Eight Lectures on Yoga. You know, Yama and Niyama, wherein the “proper” code of morality is defined as a life of thought and activity that least disturbs the mind.

    #110314

    dom
    Participant

    @michaelstayley

    I’ve never heard that one before. I was under the impression that the Holy Guardian Angel masked something deep and profound, rather than being little more than a Sunday School teacher.

    Maybe check a dictionary for definitions of the word “morality”. I’m sure any HGA would agree that if we renege upon the statement ‘thou shalt try to listen to thine HGA’ then this has has bad consequences. Right? In that sense it is ‘morality’ or a ‘principle’. AL is called ‘The Book of the Law’. What happens when you’re bad? You break the law. Right?

    Zos Kia has no concept of “direct karmic responsibility” because the Kia is the totality, the pleroma, which is our true identity. Its emphasis is not on the human being, but on the wider and deeper identity that lies beyond it, and out of which phenomena emerge, flourish awhile, then fall back, emerging again in fresh configurations.

    Ok now you’re making sense.

    To describe Spare as a black magician because he did not conform to your spectacularly ill-thought-out concept of “direct karmic responsibility” is in my view absurd.

    Maybe Kia is HGA.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by  dom.
    #110316

    dom
    Participant

    @shiva

    Shiva are you using the following
    attributions?;

    Circuit 1 malkuth
    2 yesod
    3 hod.
    4 netzach.
    5 tipareth
    6 geburah.
    7 chesed.
    8 binah.

    #110317

    Shiva
    Participant

    D: … the following attributions? …(1,2,3, etc)

    Yes.

    #110318

    dom
    Participant

    @shiva

    Yes.

    That falls together nicely. The warmth of neurosomatic Tipareth directly above the hidden animal lunatic.

    #110319

    Shiva
    Participant

    D: That falls together nicely.

    It’s just a simple 1:1 correlation. I got caught up in various other alignments, but this one-for-one has proven itself to me.

    #110320

    dom
    Participant

    It’s just a simple 1:1 correlation. I got caught up in various other alignments, but this one-for-one has proven itself to me

    I9 wonder what Geburah has to do with neuroelectric and what Chesed has to do with neurogenetic?

    #110322

    Shiva
    Participant

    D: I wonder what Geburah has to do with neuroelectric and what Chesed has to do with neurogenetic?

    Everything. They fit like a glove. Since I have recently exposed the secrets of these degrees in extremely fine detail <haha>, I’ll not be sitting here typing it all over again.

    I’ll be happy to send you the pdf Chapters on Electric and Akashic from The Master Codex. Anyone else as well.

    Just send me an email, Subject: SEND ELECTRIC & AKAKASHIC, at notarajah@gmail.com.

    #110330

    dom
    Participant

    Thanks Shiva but all i received was a spam reply.

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