Home Forums Thanatos Austin Osman Spare Spare, the animal and karma.

  • This topic contains 62 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Tiger 5 months ago.
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  • #110334

    Shiva
    Participant

    D: Thanks Shiva but all i received was a spam reply.

    Slow down. You are SPEEEDIINGG.

    You received a “Vacation Responder” message telling you that your message would be reviewed, and that this particular address was not used for general correspondence. I only check gmail occasionally, and I do not offer Instant Response. I am not wired to a “DING-DING! You have a Message” circuit.

    If you sent an email, you will get the secret documents as offered. But first I check the News (BBC), then LAShTAL (the eternal now), three business/communication email providers … THEN I go to the Borg HQ, er, Gmail.

    If you can just wait another 30-60 minutes (maybe longer if I get embroiled in a lengthy dialog), you’ll get one or two Chapters delivered by Mercury, the Cosmic Messenger Boy.

    https://rome.mrdonn.org/romangods/greece_hermes.gifMerc

    #110335

    dom
    Participant

    I can wait thanks, just checking progress.

    #110746

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    @dom :

    Maybe Kia is HGA [Reply # 110314]
    Why should this be though? You never explained your reasoning…

    “Still waiting”,
    N Joy

    #110750

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    @jamiejbarter

    “Still waiting”,

    Like Diana Ross, we’re all still waiting.

    #110762

    Tiger
    Participant

    Maybe Kia is HGA [Reply # 110314]
    Why should this be though? You never explained your reasoning…

    “Still waiting”,

    Well Maybe
    after one sub personality shifts;
    awakening from the other;
    and dreams vague recollections
    of another awakening;
    an answer
    might conceivably emerge
    perchance .

    any way
    this sounds abit like HGA ?

    “Kia or Atmospheric ‘I,’ which uses Zos as its special field of activity. “
    “The term flesh denotes in this context the fully conscious awareness of the Atmospheric ‘I’—the ‘neither-neither’ principle, now, in the all-pervading body of the present. A traditionally symbolic form of this concept is encountered in Tibetan Buddhism under the Yab-Yum image, which is a representation of the Kia rehearsing its blissful contact with the Zos or ‘body-considered as a whole.’ The Kia is present everywhere, but the immediacy of its realisation is sought through the flesh, as in Zen it is apprehended through the mind.”

    http://pastelegram.org/e/126

    your turn dom

    #110776

    Shiva
    Participant

    Tiger: (quote): “The Kia is present everywhere, but the immediacy of its realisation is sought through the flesh, as in Zen it is apprehended through the mind.”

    Exactly!

    #110777

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    Yet dom’s speculation is an interesting point. Kia can be approximated with Self as the undivided totality. In one of the Logomachy oracles (395) published in Zos Speaks!, Spare says

    Self is the real thing, Ego what we realise of it.

    It’s my opinion that, so far as these matters can be expressed in words, glimpses of the Kia are what constitutes the Holy Guardian Angel. The following passage comes from a letter which Kenneth Grant wrote to an American correspondent in the early 1990s, who was about to undertake a task:

    “The “mammoth undertaking” will take care of itself if you do not think about it in that light, but apply your undeniably strong driving-force to the realisation of your own realisation of the Kia. Your letters show an over concern for ‘others’. As Schrödinger has pointed out, the Self is single, there is no plurality in consciousness. Realisation of Kia alone will enable you to understand this. It is not comprehensible to thought, which is always and necessarily dualistic. You will enable others to realise by realising your Self. You will not then worry about how others are faring any more than you concern yourself with others in your dreams — after you have awakened. This also answers your question about Kenneth Grant. He too is only a dream character. He doesn’t even interest me, so why should he be of interest to you? Get to know the Kia and all these problems will be solved. Several bits and pieces have appeared about me — all at variance with one another and none of them true. Even the so-called autobiographical details in the forthcoming Remembering Aleister Crowley do not really convey an accurate picture of the shape-shifting entity with which I once identified myself. It is the false identification with the persona, the unreal, that prevents knowledge of the Real. Abide in Self-love — that is all. You will radiate more Knowledge than you can ever communicate by words, for all language is of duality.

    “. . . I think you are absolutely right about AOS having tapped a higher consciousness – higher, that is, in terms of transcending the body, mind and senses. He touched the Atmospheric ‘I’. The aim should be to stabilize in it. Many of us experience flashes of it — it is impossible to express it in words because we are it!”

    #110783

    Tiger
    Participant

    “glimpses of the Kia are what constitutes the Holy Guardian Angel.
    apply your undeniably strong driving-force to the realisation of your own realisation of the Kia.

    only a dream character. He doesn’t even interest me, so why should he be of interest to you?

    all at variance with one another and none of them true.

    Even the so-called autobiographical details
    do not really convey an accurate picture of the shape-shifting entity
    with which
    once identified
    is the false identification with the persona, the unreal, that prevents knowledge of the Real

    having tapped a higher consciousness – higher, that is, in terms of transcending the body, mind and senses.
    touching the Atmospheric ‘I’. The aim should be to stabilize in it.
    Many of us experience flashes of it

    Abide
    Radiate “

    Thanks Michael

    #110787

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    @michael Staley :

    Yet dom’s speculation is an interesting point. Kia can be approximated with Self as the undivided totality. … It’s my opinion that, so far as these matters can be expressed in words, glimpses of the Kia are what constitutes the Holy Guardian Angel.

    However as quoted this seems more like the Hadit point of view of consciousness if anything. And neither Spare nor=neither Grant mention the HGA in this context at all.

    Dom’s view of the HGA, hence also of the Kia, at least in the thread about whether A.C. was a black magician, was that it is in some way a final “moral arbiter” in terms of (responsibility for one’s) Karma and therefore what is morally ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ (presumably ultimately in the sense of being in accordance with the individual’s true will). However I am finding it difficult to believe this could ever have been what Spare originally had in mind when he came up with his neologism of the phrase the ‘Kia’.

    N Joy

    #110790

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    @Jamie

    However as quoted this seems more like the Hadit point of view of consciousness if anything. And neither Spare nor=neither Grant mention the HGA in this context at all.

    No, they don’t. I was giving my opinion on the matter, bourne of my own experience.

    However I am finding it difficult to believe this could ever have been what Spare originally had in mind when he came up with his neologism of the phrase the ‘Kia’.

    Moral arbiter? No, of course it is not what Spare meant by Kia, nor what Crowley meant by the HGA. I don’t personally see any point in discussing so utterly bizarre a proposition as dom’s, even if this website has megapixels to burn and we all have an endless supply of kalpas to waste.

    #110791

    dom
    Participant

    Thankyou Michael for those brilliant quotes there from Grant about the similarities between HGA and Kia. Looks like we’re all in agreement there about HGA and Kia then. It’s not rocket science to identify that (call it what you want) something that is the part of us/not part of us that transcends our dualisms. Atman, HGA, Real Self etc.

    I already explained what I meant by HGA and “moral arbiter” over in that other thread, not moral as in Moses’s tablets of stone or what The Koran says but ‘moral’ as in in accord with True Will. I stand by that. The HGA/Kia is doing it’s True Will and can only do anything but that ay all times, right? Acclaimed A’A’ member David Shoemaker explains it thus that a crisis will appear when we need to listen to our HGA and we are receiving messages from ‘it’ but ignoring them. Right? I’m sure you agree but maybe you don’t like the use of the words ‘moral’ and ‘arbiter’ as part of that description?

    #110800

    kidneyhawk
    Participant

    I would disagree that HGA = KIA or vice versa. The “Selfhood” of the HGA remains “Individualized.” In other words, YOUR HGA isn’t MY HGA. Our respective HGAs may have a mutual regard for KIA but they are not KIA. Although we may speak of our particular True Will(s) as unique Stars in unique Orbits (and, likewise, our unique experience with our unique HGAs), we wouldn’t speak of YOUR KIA or MY KIA. There is only one KIA. We might then observe the HGA to be as a rung in the ladder which gets us home (to KIA).

    #110802

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    @dom

    Looks like we’re all in agreement there about HGA and Kia then.

    No, we’re not. I don’t understand how you could read my last post and imagine for a split-second that such was the case!

    #110806

    dom
    Participant

    I would disagree that HGA = KIA or vice versa. The “Selfhood” of the HGA remains “Individualized.” In other words, YOUR HGA isn’t MY HGA. Our respective HGAs may have a mutual regard for KIA but they are not KIA. Although we may speak of our particular True Will(s) as unique Stars in unique Orbits (and, likewise, our unique experience with our unique HGAs), we wouldn’t speak of YOUR KIA or MY KIA. There is only one KIA. We might then observe the HGA to be as a rung in the ladder which gets us home (to KIA

    Sounds like a Krsna and Atman situation.

    #110807

    Tiger
    Participant

    Welcome back Kidneyhawk !

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