Home Forums Community Stuff Temple Ov Psychick Youth an abusive cult?

  • This topic contains 96 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  dom 4 days ago.
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  • #116972

    ignant666
    Participant

    A very interesting, quite long, rather detailed article arguing that TOPY was an abusive cult:

    https://www.popmatters.com/genesis-p-orridge-groupthink-2640631583.html

    Worth a read.

    #117025

    dom
    Participant

    Yeah freedom fighters are always portrayed in a bad light aren’t they? I hear that Spanish anarchists during the civil war executed a fare amount of Catholic priests.

    You in the politics thread said that Robespierre tried to protect Danton. I don’t see how ordering a decree to have someone murdered is ‘trying to protect them’ but y’know we see what we want I guess.

    Me? Give me both sides of the story first.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by  dom.
    #117028

    ignant666
    Participant

    Well, here at least, it is fellow “freedom fighters” doing the “portraying in a bad light”.

    The main accusers are Cosey Fanni Tutti, GPO’s longterm girlfriend and TG member, Peter “Sleazy” Christopherson of TG (in other words all of TG except Chris Carter and GPO) and TOPY, John Balance of TOPY and Coil, and David Tibet of TOPY and Coil, as well as other TOPY, and COUM Transmissions members. There are extensive (and damning) quotations from GPO’s writings.

    Money quote from David Tibet: “…[C]haos magick [is] a lot of shit … if all these magicians are so great and powerful, why are they all so broke and don’t have girlfriends?” (Keenan 2016: 305).

    Maybe read the article before sticking up for GPO?

    I am surprised that a Thelemite would think of executing Catholic priests as a bad thing- many altar-boys might disagree.

    #117029

    dom
    Participant

    Robespierre. Danton. Who was the bad guy? Shit happens amongst anarchists. It’s war.

    Maybe read the article before sticking up for GPO?

    I did go through it. Reminded me of the pathetic media axe-grinding slanging matches between Ace Frehley and Simmons and Stanley. Laughable.

    As for the OP question. I assume that hundreds of people were in T.O.P.Y. not long after it’s inception. Where are their complaints?

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by  dom.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by  dom.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by  dom.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by  dom.
    #117053

    ignant666
    Participant

    david: I don’t recall the members of Kiss accusing each other of running a mind-control cult, murder attempts, or multiple rapes, but maybe i’ve missed those.

    So accusations from all the founders of TOPY not named GPO that it was an abusive brainwashing cult, and the same accusations from a 13 year old (when he joined TOPY) TPOY member, aren’t enough? Nor is hearing what Cosey has to say about GPO?

    Sounds like literally nothing would convince you that your hero GPO is not a saint and wonderful person.

    How about the claim by Tibet and Balance that they, and not GPO, were responsible for most of the TOPY “magick”, and that “chaos magick [is] a lot of shit …”?

    I had never heard that that either Robespierre or Danton were TOPY members. Pretty sure this is wrong since they died a couple years before 1981.

    Sounds almost like thread derailment/changing the subject to avoid defending stuff that is pretty tough to defend.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by  ignant666.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by  ignant666.
    #117058

    the_real_simon_iff
    Participant

    93!

    And it is of course just another puzzle piece in the complicated matter of “can you enjoy/like/defend/etc. “great” art made by “bad” (at least in retrospective and at least at times) people?”

    Kevin Spacey, Wagner, Roman Polanski, Woody Allen (though un-substantiated) come to mind, but of course Crowley is another perfect example.

    I love a lot of GOPs work, but I was always under the impression that all this legal threats after h/er TOPY time shone some fishy light on h/er. Hope I never have to regret my Psychic Cross tattoo…

    Love=Law
    Lutz

    #117064

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    Funny — my previous post which was here an hour ago seems to have somehow vanished entirely… has anyone else encountered this phenomenon recently?

    No Jy

    #117067

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    ignant666: “Money quote from David Tibet: “…[C]haos magick [is] a lot of shit … if all these magicians are so great and powerful, why are they all so broke and don’t have girlfriends?” (Keenan 2016: 305).”

    As it says in the scriptures (“A.’. A.’. Publication in Class A.”):

    “0. In the name of the Lord of Initiation, Amen. […] 25. The weak, the timid, the imperfect, the cowardly, the poor, the tearful — these are mine enemies, and I am come to destroy them. […] 31. Also I give you power earthly and joy earthly; wealth, and health, and length of days. Adoration and love shall cling to your feet, and twine around your heart. […] 44. They [= my adepts] shall be masters of majesty and might; they shall be beautiful and joyous; they shall be clothed with victory and splendour; they shall stand upon the firm foundation; the kingdom shall be theirs; yea, the kingdom shall be theirs. In the name of the Lord of Initiation. Amen.” (Source: Liber 90)

    “Chapter II […] 18. […] We are not for the poor and sad: the lords of the earth are our kinsfolk. […] 19. […] who sorroweth is not of us. […] “21. We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. ….” […] 58. […] a beggar cannot hide his poverty. […] Chapter III […] 46. […] ye shall delight to slay. Success is your proof; courage is your armour; go on, go on, in my strength; & ye shall turn not back for any! […] 57. Despise also all cowards; professional soldiers who dare not fight, but play; all fools despise!” (Source: Liber 220)

    #117068

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    “Chapter I […] 49. […] Hoor in his secret name and splendour is the Lord initiating.” (Source: Liber 220)

    #117069

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    the_real_simon_iff:
    “… it is of course just another puzzle piece in the complicated matter of “can you enjoy/like/defend/etc. “great” art made by “bad” (at least in retrospective and at least at times) people?” […] Crowley is a […] perfect example.”

    As it says in the scriptures (“A.’. A.’. Publication in Class A.”): “Chapter III […] 57. […] all fools despise!” (Source: Liber 220).

    That is, acceptance of a Class A text, does not rule out despising the person AC as a fool.

    #117070

    the_real_simon_iff
    Participant

    Dear wellreadwellbred:

    I agree with your second opinion, but quoting “all fools despise” is not really helpful. Because what is said “in scripture” is irrelevant.

    Love=Law
    Lutz

    #117071

    dom
    Participant

    Who is the OP directed at? I wasn’t there I wouldn’t know. I was never GPO’s mate. Maybe he was abusive maybe he wasn’t. If we had his side of the stories then yeah it would be more of a balanced argument wouldn’t it? I don’t even know who David Tibet is. Sounds like an 80s politically correct Comic Strip Club comedian.

    What about Bill Crosby or Harvey Weinstein? When enough victims present an official case then yeah it looks convincing.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by  dom.
    #117073

    ignant666
    Participant

    The OP isn’t “directed at” anyone. GPO and TOPY have often been discussed here, and i thought the article might be of interest to some here, so i posted it.

    It is very hard for me to believe that you as a big Boyd Rice fan, and big Throbbing Gristle fan, have never heard of David Tibet.

    David Tibet is a rather famous ex-Thelemite, and current Roman Catholic, who serves on the (c)OTO’s “International Cabinet”. He was an early member of the band Psychic TV, one of the earliest members to join TOPY, and one of the first to leave.

    After leaving TOPY, he founded the rather famous band Current 93. i mistakenly said he was in Coil above.

    But then you’d know all that if you’d actually read the article i posted, the article you were so quick to dismiss as “[l]aughable”, the article that you clearly have not, in fact, bothered to read.

    #117074

    dom
    Participant

    Yeah I have heard the name Tibet here and there but probably checked out his band and dismissed it as drivel.

    Yeah Cosy seemed ok in doing a reunion tour with GPO. However I see that Weinstein is name-checked in that article so we have a similar situation…well, sort of. Like I said we need GPO’s side of the story imo. For example Ike said Tina Turner used to batter him. We don’t know we weren’t there and having an opinion either way is pointless bullshit until we have a lot of info and both sides are presented.

    #117075

    ignant666
    Participant

    We have GPO’s side (again, in the article you still haven’t bothered to read): “whatever sells a book, sells a book.” In other words, he is calling her a liar. Perhaps you have heard that people who have done awful things don’t always tell the truth about doing those things?

    However I see that Weinstein is name-checked in that article so we have a similar situation…well, sort of.

    Huh? Unless my search function is somehow malfunctioning, the text string “Weinstein” does not occur in the article. I suspect that because you haven’t bothered to read the article, you figured they just had to mention the notorious Harvey Weinstein case, but it took me a while to figure out what you were on about since i have actually read the article, which is about abuse by a countercultural figure, and very much framed around the concept of counterculture. i don’t think anyone would think of Harvey Weinstein as a countercultural figure.

    I would agree with you that GPO’s claim that Cosey is lying about his horrible, criminal abuse of her is about as credible as Ike Turner’s claim that Tina beat him.

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