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  • #113761

    Shiva
    Participant

    I don’t think Barbara intended to give us the impression that she was fearless in the face of death, but that she wasn’t carrying around a general fear-of-death. Most of us are not.

    Sometimes one comes close to death due to illness. Severe imbalances in internal systems, trauma/shock, or inflamed organs can allow one to access realms and circuits that are not normally available. I’m not referring to those “near death experiences” that occur in emergency rooms – those are actual clinical deaths (the heart stops), and in the common scenario, an angel or a previously departed family member sends them back from the brink of various enticing scenery, and their heart starts up again. We had a whole thread on that phenomena; I believe our final conclusion was that it’s an archetype or some fairly universal experience that is hard-wired in our (all of us) nervous system. It come on-line and plays when we’re exiting life.

    #113766

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    bg/shiva :

    bg : “The Bible says that we will have a glorified, perfect body.”
    Yes, this is The Body of Light I have referred to in other places. It is not the astral body or the causal body. It is earned at the so-called fourth initiation (the Crucifixion), which equates to our well known Magister Templi 8=3. See HPB, VVVVV, Los, etc.

    (to Barbara): It’s all very well going on about “the Body of Light” but to get to the “meat” of the matter — literally! — is this resurrected body in any way a physical one? And if not, why not? Surely not because of a neo-Manichaean dislike of the “prison of matter”?
    (to Shiva): Surely you can’t be saying that anyone who is crucified has had “the fourth initiation” and achieved MT-ness? Lots of people were crucified in aulden tymes, including two theves (Barrabas?) along with J.C.. Were they therefore masters too?

    The initiate knows, without a shadow of doubt, that something is there, and they are connected to it.
    (To both/ either/ all): They might know then, but what about (for how long) will they know (remember) it? Years down the line, when the intensity has dimmed, what about when an element of doubt enters (creeps/barges) in? As Shiva put it “when the Vision, of course, wears off and goes away”, where is that “without a shadow” certainty now?

    bg :

    This is exactly how I feel about knowing God. I have experienced Him in a way that is very real.
    Do you mean God here as in Jesus (No. 2 in the Trinity)? And as a Christian, do you believe that he is “the [only] way” you can be saved, that you will suffer eternal damnation except through him? And how do you feel about the whole idea of someone offering to die for your own sins — don’t you feel that you want to take some sort of, oooh I don’t know know… personal responsibility for them?!

    @christibrany :

    no matter how much AC wanted to be a Right Hand Path kinda guy, he was really a Left Hand Path ‘black brother’ as he never truly gave up his Ego, and Thelema while great for self improve,ment, does ultimately seem to tend it’s disciples towards retaining their individual personalities/abilities all the way up the Tree.
    Where does it say in Thelema (or the writings of A.C. — much the same thing, as some would say) that anyone, let alone disciples, retains (or is meant to retain) his or her individual personalities/ abilities/ characteristics beyond Chesed (or at a pinch, Daath) — but anyway, i.e. not “all the way” up said Tree)?

    I don’t think that’s a bad thing, but I do think it’s very murky territory that could be debated.
    Really?! What do you reckon it’s got (good) going for it then, would you say? And if so, then why ‘murky’?

    N Joy

    #113770

    Shiva
    Participant

    j: is this resurrected body in any way a physical one?

    According to “other” scriptures, yes. But it’s just the etheric level (electricity, radiation, etc) and not a dense (solid-liquid-gas) body. I do not know this to be true, so I’m just quoting the scriptures and assume no responsibility (morally or financially) for its accuracy.

    Surely you can’t be saying that anyone who is crucified has had “the fourth initiation” and achieved MT-ness?

    Surely not. Please see Dom about proper logic and putting concepts in my mouth.

    hey might know then, but what about (for how long) will they know (remember) it? Years down the line,

    Oh, YES. It does not fade. Times of doubt may intrude, but it always comes back. It is an imprint, and a consciously-applied one at that.

    when the intensity has dimmed, what about when an element of doubt enters (creeps/barges) in? As Shiva put it “when the Vision, of course, wears off and goes away”, where is that “without a shadow” certainty now?

    Oh, hell. You’re just making a list of excuses here. If you’ve not had the experience, then just say so.

    As for ego-loss. Let’s face it. There’s gonna be an ego at work in daily life all the way up to (and including) Chokmah. The ego-loss happens in dhyana and samadhi. Nobody at Chokmah or below can stay indefinitely in these states.

    We all know AC displayed an ego right up ’til the end. But we love him ’cause he was able to drop the “him” sufficiently enough to cast a number of spotlights on the so-called spiritual path.

    At Kether, the situation may be different … but that’s another subject and dimension.

    #113779

    Barbara Green
    Participant

    @Jamie: You ask such amazing questions! I will try to do them justice, but it will take a little time, so please bear with me.

    First, you asked if our resurrected body is a physical one. Yes, I believe it is. Jesus’ resurrection was a physical one. He said after his resurrection when his disciples were afraid of him, supposing he was a spirit, “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.” Luke 24: 39. In John 3:2, it says “we shall be like him” when referring to the resurrection. So, yes, we will have a physical body. We do not believe that the body is bad and the spirit is good. We are all corrupted physically and spiritually because of sin, but it is not one part of us is bad and the other good.

    Second, you asked if I believe that Jesus is the only way to be saved. I will give you a semi-long answer. The pivotal event in my life that convinced me was when I asked a Christian how he could believe the Bible was THE book out of all the books in the world that purported to show us to spiritual enlightenment? He said that he believed the Bible because it presented an accurate view of the world – that we are all depraved and need a savior. It was when I realized my own sinfulness that I asked God to save me, so, yes I believe that the way shown in the Bible is the only way to salvation.

    That brings me to your third question: whether or not the experience dims with time. For me it has not; actually it has strengthened. I had lived a life of total depravity – drinking, drugs, promiscuity, anger, hatred, and so on. When I met God, my life suddenly and completely turned around. Everything I once loved, I now hated, and vice versa. I was a new creation. The Bible says, “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” 1 Corinthians 5:17. And I have never looked back. God is REAL to me, and has been ever since.

    Forth, you asked about taking personal responsibility for sin. Yes, I absolutely believe that we should take personal responsibility for our sins. The thing is, sin is against God and there is no way we can repay God for the wrong we have done. The Bible says, “The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 6: 23. You see, we were created to live eternally but God does not want us to live in our sins forever, so we die. But God still wants us to live forever because He loves us, so Jesus died in our place. We take responsibility for our sins by repenting and asking God to forgive us.

    Friends, I do not want to be too “preachy,” but God loves you and I feel I must answer Jaime’s questions truthfully. I was not saved by “hellfire and brimstone” preaching, but by the love of God, and I love you all.

    #113780

    elitemachinery
    Participant

    Sorry but the Resurrection ain’t happening. I spent years as a kid listening to the Jehovah’s talk about this garbage. Things get old and die. Your computer and your car and your body. Get over it. Everything lives and then dies. Life eats life. The good part is that things evolve. If we let them. Our ancestors are not going to be resurrected nor are our Dos 5.0 computers from 1982 coming back. Their physical bodies/vehicles are dead and done and gone forever…but their spirit lives on in new forms and ways (smart phones, new births, etc)

    At some point we really need to throw the baby out with the bathwater!

    Jesus Christ!

    #113781

    Barbara Green
    Participant

    @elitemachinery: How do you know that any more than I do? I know because I trust the Bible. As I said above, it presents an accurate view of the world. In addition to this, it’s prophecies come true. What is your source of knowledge?

    #113782

    Shiva
    Participant

    em: Our ancestors are not going to be resurrected nor are our Dos 5.0 computers from 1982 coming back

    I have a set of disks for DOS3.0. If I use an old computer, I bet I can resurrect the whole deal. The only question is, will it be operble or a Frank-in-Stein (Frenchman in a Stone) with no “soul?”

    bg: I know because I trust the Bible.

    Oh. But “knowing” and “trusting” are two different things. “Knowing” is based on experience. “Trusting” is similar to “assuming” or “presuming.”

    In addition to this, it’s prophecies come true.

    If we conducted a detailed study, I “believe” Nostradamus has a better track record in prophetic prediction.

    #113783

    Tiger
    Participant

    ” Ida’s mother conspired to attempt to have Ida committed in an insane asylum.
    At one point in 1898 her foes did manage to have Ida admitted to the Pennsylvania Hospital for the Insane, but she was released after 3 months without ever being judged to be legally insane by the court.
    She managed to stay out of jail only because the famed criminal lawyer and free-speech advocate Clarence Darrow posted her bond.
    Ida was arrested under New York’s anti-obscenity law for sending copies of The Wedding Night through the mail. The judge refused to allow the jury to even see the offending document, calling it “indescribably obscene.” The jury took his word for it and found Craddock guilty, as it was reported, “without leaving their seats.” She was sentenced to three months in the city workhouse, in which she endured inhumane conditions and harsh treatment.
    Upon her release from prison, she was immediately re-arrested under the federal Comstock law. She refused an offer to escape a prison sentence by pleading insane. On the morning she was to be sentenced, she committed suicide by slashing her wrists and inhaling natural gas. ”
    http://www.idacraddock.com/intro.html

    It is best to stay in the center of the road when walking at night, so as not to disturb the spirits resting along the wayside.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magdalene_Sisters

    #113790

    dom
    Participant

    not overmuch

    @bg How do you know that any more than I do? I know because I trust the Bible. As I said above, it presents an accurate view of the world. In addition to this, it’s prophecies come true. What is your source of knowledge?

    As Baphomet incarnate (elite used to be a porn star) he knows.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  dom.
    #113793

    Tiger
    Participant

    The world shall be drenched in blood

    it appears

    a blood letting
    will happen
    in madness

    before the sheep slave chained
    to the whim
    and the curse of god

    awaken
    to be free
    of all that

    and the Star shines
    in daylight
    not seen at night

    in the moment

    #113795

    Tiger
    Participant

    dark hole
    god eater
    sucking light
    spasms
    of
    lucky 666
    bequest
    workin
    it

    #113796

    elitemachinery
    Participant

    There is no evidence for Resurrection. It’s a fairy tale told to children so they don’t cry when Grandma dies. Look at nature and you can plainly see that everything lives for a time then dies, gets turned in the earth and becomes something else. If you want to make extraordinary claims then you need extraordinary evidence. There is none.

    I can imagine what a terrible place this heavenly world full of reincarnated dead souls would be. Like a zombie movie. They cannot be killed or ever die because they are pure and perfect. Only God knows where were going to put all these folks. Will humans stop breeding? Will animals live forever too? Will animals stop eating each other and just eat grass? What if someone commits a terrible crime? Can he be killed? Oh no this is a world of happy zombies. They never make mistakes or commit crimes. Do they take happy pills? Does the grass die? Will we still have to cut the grass or will it be some form of forever grass that doesn’t die and you never have to cut it? If humans stop procreating due to everyone living forever then will sex be allowed? Who will dictate what acceptable behavior is in this new zombie world? What if someone breaks the rules?

    Zero evidence. Zilch.

    On the other hand there is ample evidence that the churches are run by a vast cult of pedophile Priests and clergy who molest and kill thousands of young children and spend millions upon millions of dollars to hide their crimes. There is a lot of evidence for this. Read the news any day of the last 25 years. Tons of evidence. But none for Resurrection.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/03/mass-grave-of-babies-and-children-found-at-tuam-orphanage-in-ireland

    #113802

    dom
    Participant

    Yep I’m with elitemachinery. Harken ye, Xtianity was a tool used by God to make governments become more oppressive and more socially organized and controlling in order to develop science and technology in Europe and the West. Job well done. It was just a skin that God the Great Serpent has now very very very much shed and left behind.

    Sermon over.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  dom.
    #113806

    Barbara Green
    Participant

    “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will.” I wonder what Crowley’s definition of love is, if you guys are an example of it? You are right about one thing, though, the catholic church is messed up. But I want no part with the catholic church and their pedophilia. nor their church hierarchy, nor their priests. The catholic church does not represent true Christianity.

    Say, for example, you are right that there is no resurrection, that we all are just worm food when we die, I would still choose God and the Bible way of life, over the hatred and anger that you have shown to me. Dom says I am a black magician. Boaba says I have a demon. What is my crime? Tell me that, and I will repent.

    #113809

    dom
    Participant

    What is my crime? Tell me that, and I will repent.

    Don’t worry about it God loves black magicians too.

    Could you tell is if you agree that humans evolved out of other monkey-type ancestors? Also, who were the Adam and Eve in The Bible?

    You said that I “sounded like Trump”. I don’t understand the point. Do you think that Trump is evil? Do Christians forgive evil men?

    Jesus said something about thou shalt not look upon a woman in lust. What’s all that about then?

    What does the Bible say about homosexuals? Are they going to Hell?

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  dom.
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