Home Forums Aleister Crowley People The man behind Amado Crowley

Viewing 15 posts - 301 through 315 (of 430 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #113865

    Tiger
    Participant

    @Jamie
    “No — just curse them! (threefold – ain’t that worse?!)”

    we have the undertaker assigned to that task

    #113866

    Shiva
    Participant

    jb [another 4th ray poster]: This does NOT follow on with your comment “… the Vision, of course, wears off and goes away”.

    Well, yes, the actual Vision, wherein one is entranced in wonder, does fade away from active, daily consciousness. But it remains in memory, and serves as a goal to be re-attained. Too bad it doesn’t really manifest in full until one reaches Kether, which is where it came from in the first place.

    Sorry about your confusion and my lack of clarity. One remembers the Vision. Even then, the memory might be clouded in doubt, usually during “dry spells” and when in difficulties. But it’s just clouded, it doesn’t fade away from memory permanently.

    I have no interest in getting involved in any sort of metaphysical ‘pissing the highest up against a wall’ contest

    No contest. We’re only taling about the first degree, which you surely must have passed. The extent of the Vision varies with the thoughtform-making capacity of the initiate. It’s always associated with light, and it leaves the initiate with no (continuous) doubt that something is there. Something varies with the individual, but they’ll not be atheists any more.

    Please explain why this is the case when ‘above the Abyss’

    Crossing the Abyss involves a stoppage of the mind, and synchonistically the stoppage of the ego. But at binah and Chokmah, one is working with the Universal Mind. For Example, when Therion writes, sometimes he uses “I,” but sometimes he refers to Therion in the “second person.” Regardless of how it’s presented, there is still a name and a sense of self-identity. In Liber B vel Magi, it starts: 00. One is the Magus: twain His forces: four His weapons. These are the Seven Spirits of Unrighteousness; seven vultures of evil. Thus is the art and craft of the Magus but glamour. How shall He destroy Himself?

    You see? There is still a “himself” to be destroyed … which will put him a Kether – back in the saddle again with Atma or Aiwass.

    Doesn’t this strike you as a bit harsh on the part of a supposedly Loving and Merciful God: that for our mistakes made in this life choosing the Creator by one Name rather than another, we must suffer in torment for ever & ever?

    Oh, it’s primitive marketing. It was (is still?) very effective when the Church needed heavy leverage to control their parishoners. Christianity (and Muslimism, Guru Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, and much of Hindooism is fueled by the sixth ray of Love and Devotion. There’s not a lot of mental stuff involved, except to memorize the script and get/stay devoted. This nonsense is usually settled by the time one leaves the Inn at Netzach.

    At the present time, starting one or two hundred years ago, the seventh ray began to take prominence over the sixth ray, which had strongly ruled humanity for a millenia or two. The turmoil in present affairs is a reflection of this Changeover, which has not reached the tipping point, but it’s getting really close.

    Age of Osiris (6th ray) gives way the Aeon of Horus (7th ray). Who is this 7th ray? It’s Arcania, the ancient secret societies, the musicians, architects, and ilm-makers. It’s the Arcane school and the A.’.A.’..

    Theroretically, it’s the OTO, but recent developments suggest corruption and pretending to be a 1st ray Worlord (1.3) or at least a Crown (1.4). No way, Jose and Joseph.

    You are aware, I take it, that the Bible was put together for political purposes by the Council of Nicea in 325, which decided which books should go in and which should be excluded to the Apocryphea?

    No, she is not aware of this, even though we’ve tried to explain it to her. She has admitted non-awareness of Biblical manipulation, and has stated that she’s not going to start now. This is a wonderful Christian attribute (6th ray) – just devotion. No mental questioning or research for facts.

    bg: However, as far as us all being on the same path, how can that be possible, if Crowley hated everything that I am.

    Crowley hated Jesus, because he was tormented by The Plymouthians in the name of Jesus. He didn’t hate you. He would probably invite you to partake of strange drugs and enter copulation.

    Their is only one spectrum of consciousness. Different systems try to emulate this spectrum and their scenarios, rules, and rites vary. A true seeker finds the spectrum underneath any differences in systems. We are not followers of Crowley. Many of us think he was an asshole. But his WORK 9his Libers) tell us (anyone) how to find the original, natural spectrum. We are ALL on the same Path – we’re trying to get back to our own “square one.”

    In the true religion there is no sect, therefore take heed that thou blaspheme not the name by which another knoweth his God.” (Crowley: Liber Librae, v. 21)

    Yeah, that’s what I’ve been saying.

    #113867

    Shiva
    Participant

    Here, try this on for size: http://www.light-weaver.com/LW-old/rays/rays1009.html

    The burning ground has done its work.

    Here there is quite apt to be misunderstanding. To most people the burning ground stands for one of two things:

    Either the fire of the mind, burning up those things in the lower nature of which it becomes increasingly aware.
    Or the burning ground of sorrow, agony, horror and pain which is the characteristic quality of life in the three worlds, particularly at this time.

    But the burning ground referred to here is something [30] very different. When the blazing light of the sun is correctly focused on or through a glass it can cause ignition. When the blazing light of the Monad is focused directly upon the personality, via the antahkarana and not specifically through the soul, it produces a blazing fire which burns up all hindrances in a steady, sequential process. Wording it otherwise, when the will aspect streams from the Monad and focuses through the personal will (as the mind can grasp and realize it) it destroys as by fire all elements of self-will.

    As the energy of Shamballa streams out and makes a direct contact with humanity (omitting the transmission via the Hierarchy, which has hitherto been customary), you have what has been seen in the world today, a destructive conflagration or a world burning ground. When the antahkarana of a group is rightly constructed, then the individualized group-will will disappear in the full consciousness of the monadic purpose or clear directed will. These are points which the disciple preparing for initiation has to consider as he prepares for the higher initiations, and these are the points which any group or ashram in preparation for initiation has also to consider.

    [end extract] – read the whole deal if you will.

    #113868

    dom
    Participant

    @michaelstayley and ignant

    I am aware that AC borrowed/adapted practices that are linked to Abrahamic traditions (e.g. Resh. Even Jugorum has elements of medieval self-flaggelation) that’s the first thing you learn.

    Anyway book review;

    Molinos’s Spiritual Guide may be the first Western discussion of the technique known in Hindu teachings as “Raja Yoga.” For teaching that to know God, one must empty one’s mind, quieting all other thoughts, and God will fill your mind and soul. This approached Gnosticism and thus caused Molinos to be branded a heretic.

    Well yeah, raja and presumably elements of bhakti yoga. It’s hardly something that your local Protestant vicar is going to be handing out to his parishioners is it? In fact furthermore it was banned by the Church for being a Gnostic manual. I doubt that our friend Barbara has a copy or would even want a copy.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  dom.
    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  dom.
    #113871

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    @tiger :

    we have the undertaker assigned to that task
    Ashes to ashes, and dust to dust … Until?

    @shiva :

    jb [another 4th ray poster]
    You mean, in addition to yourself?

    Sorry about your confusion and my lack of clarity.
    No worries mon ami. I think I divine (intuit) your meaning now. It’s always a bit difficult debating these concepts only being able to use words, though we can at best try. At least with skype* (for example) you can see expressions, body language etc (* incidentally I write as someone who has never “skyped”), but nothing really beats first-hand contact (and on a good day for both parties!)

    One remembers the Vision. Even then, the memory might be clouded in doubt, usually during “dry spells” and when in difficulties. But it’s just clouded, it doesn’t fade away from memory permanently. … the actual Vision, wherein one is entranced in wonder, does fade away from active, daily consciousness. But it remains in memory, and serves as a goal to be re-attained. Too bad it doesn’t really manifest in full until one reaches Kether
    I agree but seem plagued by rather a lot from doubt myself these days, personally speaking…

    “I have no interest in getting involved in any sort of metaphysical ‘pissing the highest up against a wall’ contest”
    No contest. We’re only talking about the first degree, which you surely must have passed.

    No interest at any level/ degree/ step! The first one? That’s where all the trouble starts! Plus, Malkuth is in Kether (after another manner) which, as you say, “is where it came from in the first place.”

    The extent of the Vision varies with the thoughtform-making capacity of the initiate. It’s always associated with light, and it leaves the initiate with no (continuous) doubt that something is there. Something varies with the individual, but they’ll not be atheists any more.
    I agree; the brightest light is invisible (effectively, dark).

    Please explain why this is the case when ‘above the Abyss’
    … But at binah and Chokmah, one is working with the Universal Mind….

    Ah, I see where the confusion lies. You interceded with my query to chris(tibrany) with your comment “as for ego-loss. Let’s face it… [and so on] “, where I was querying his remark that
    “no matter how much AC wanted to be a Right Hand Path kinda guy, he was really a Left Hand Path ‘black brother’ as he never truly gave up his Ego, and Thelema while great for self improvement, does ultimately seem to tend it’s disciples towards retaining their individual personalities/abilities all the way up the Tree.” (top of page 18 refers)
    Somewhere the discussion seems to have morphed from the ego retaining individual personalities/ abilities (characteristics) into the influence of the supernal Universal Mind, a different kettle of fish. (By the way chris, if you’re reading: still to explain!)

    You are aware, I take it, that the Bible was put together for political purposes by the Council of Nicea in 325, which decided which books should go in and which should be excluded to the Apocryphea? (For example the Gospel of Peter…)
    My mistake here, I meant to have typed “the Gospel of Thomas” there. Or as the great god Wiki puts it, Barbara:

    The text describes the life of the child Jesus, with fanciful, and sometimes malevolent, supernatural events, comparable to the trickster nature of the god-child in many Greek myths. One of the episodes involves Jesus making clay birds, which he then proceeds to bring to life, an act also attributed to Jesus in Quran 5:110, and in a medieval work known as Toledot Yeshu, although Jesus’s age at the time of the event is not specified in either account. In another episode, a child disperses water that Jesus has collected. Jesus kills his first child, when at age one he curses a boy, which causes the child’s body to wither into a corpse. Later, Jesus kills another child when Jesus curses him when he apparently accidentally bumps into Jesus, throws a stone at Jesus, or punches Jesus (depending on the translation).
    When Joseph and Mary’s neighbours complain, they are miraculously struck blind by Jesus. Jesus then starts receiving lessons, but arrogantly tries to teach the teacher, instead, upsetting the teacher who suspects supernatural origins. Jesus is amused by this suspicion, which he confirms, and revokes all his earlier apparent cruelty. Subsequently, he resurrects a friend who is killed when he falls from a roof, and heals another who cuts his foot with an axe.
    After various other demonstrations of supernatural ability, new teachers try to teach Jesus, but he proceeds to explain the law to them, instead. Another set of miracles is mentioned in which Jesus heals his brother, who is bitten by a snake, and two others, who have died from different causes. Finally, the text recounts the episode in Luke in which Jesus, aged 12, teaches in the temple.

    — Sounds here to me like the infant Jesus was a young man in need of an ASBO at the least!

    This is a wonderful Christian attribute (6th ray) – just devotion.
    Or “Blind Faith”, as some of a more cynical frame of mind might say the term is…

    “In the true religion there is no sect, therefore take heed that thou blaspheme not the name by which another knoweth his God.” (Crowley: Liber Librae, v. 21)
    Yeah, that’s what I’ve been saying.

    Yeah, that’s right: cuz it says so — “in the scriptures”!

    (All together now)
    J Noy

    #113873

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    @dom

    I think you’ve missed ignant’s point. Crowley had no problem recommending a book that he described as a treatise on Christian Mysticism, or words to that effect. All mysticism – whether Chrisian, Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, etc etc etc – has a great deal in common. Or do you think that bhakti is exclusive to Hinduism? Devotion is an undercurrent in mysticism, no matter what formal attachment it has to this or that religion. Devotion is devotion, whether to Kali or the Virgin Mary.

    Whether Barbara Green has a copy of the book, or would be interested in it, is neither here nor there to ignant’s point.

    #113874

    Tiger
    Participant

    dom said “I doubt that our friend Barbara has a copy or would even want a copy.”

    ” We’re only taling about the first degree, which you surely must have passed. The extent of the Vision varies with the thoughtform-making capacity of the initiate. It’s always associated with light, and it leaves the initiate with no (continuous) doubt that something is there. Something varies with the individual

    Christianity (and Muslimism, Guru Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, and much of Hindooism is fueled by the sixth ray of Love and Devotion.

    There’s not a lot of mental stuff involved

    She has admitted non-awareness of Biblical manipulation, and has stated that she’s not going to start now. This is a wonderful Christian attribute (6th ray) – just devotion.

    , except to memorize the script and get/stay devoted.
    Oh, it’s primitive marketing. It was (is still?) very effective when the Church needed heavy leverage to control their parishoners.
    No mental questioning or research for facts.

    This nonsense is usually settled by the time one leaves the Inn at Netzach. ”

    as Shiva so gently put

    #113875

    Barbara Green
    Participant

    @Jamie:

    I would love to answer your questions, but I have “laid down my sword and am no longer preaching on this website.

    #113876

    Shiva
    Participant

    jb: I agree but seem plagued by rather a lot from doubt myself these days, personally speaking…

    Doubt. Doubt thyself. Doubt even if you doubt yourself. (Book of Lies).
    You musrt learn to stop your mind (see Molinos, above).

    Or “Blind Faith”, as some of a more cynical frame of mind might say the term is…

    Yeah, that’s the one!

    #113877

    dom
    Participant

    I think you’ve missed ignant’s point. Crowley had no problem recommending a book that he described as a treatise on Christian Mysticism, or words to that effect

    Yes see my latest reply above.
    Reply #113868

    @barbaragreen

    Barbara, what race were Adam and Eve? Arabic? White European? African? Where do you think the Garden of Eden actually was? Out of space perhaps?

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  dom.
    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  dom.
    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  dom.
    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  dom.
    #113881

    Jamie J Barter
    Participant

    @barbaragreen :

    I would love to answer your questions, but I have “laid down my sword and am no longer preaching on this website”.
    But Oh my child, thou givest up too easily. Is the load too heavy for thee to bear? Are ye weary already, though thou hast only just set out along the Way? Hast thou so little belief in your… well, beliefs? Verily, then: Ye must now do penance. Thou spake earlier: “What is my crime? Tell me that, and I will repent” so I will inform thee, then — PRIDE, sister… pride! That ye thought you would just be able to come on here & lay your world-view down before us & expect us to all to bow forth the knee unto thee (metaphorically speaking) and utter, “Yea, thisis the (only) truth!” (or as John Belushi in The Blues Brothers put it: “Jesus H. Fucking Christ, I have SEEN the LIGHT!!!”)

    What’s that phrase now, usually applied to men immediately after engaging in the sexual act but I think also applies to you? Ah yes, here it is: “In like a lion, out like a lamb”…
    So fare thee well!

    @shiva :

    Doubt. Doubt thyself. Doubt even if you doubt yourself. (Book of Lies).
    Yes! yet you [“anyone”] can have too much of a good thing…

    You must learn to stop your mind (see Molinos, above).
    “You’re telling me!”

    NJ OY

    #113884

    dom
    Participant

    Preach Barter. Preach!!

    #113885

    Tiger
    Participant

    i guess it’s time to feed the Lions

    #113886

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    @dom

    Yes see my latest reply above.
    Reply #113868

    Since “Reply #113868” is the post to which I was responding, your “pointer” is pretty pointless.

    What a waste of time it is responding to anything you have to say.

    #113887

    dom
    Participant

    @mstayley

    Or do you think that bhakti is exclusive to Hinduism? Devotion is an undercurrent in mysticism, no matter what formal attachment it has to this or that religion. Devotion is devotion, whether to Kali or the Virgin Mary.

    Good point. Thanks.

Viewing 15 posts - 301 through 315 (of 430 total)
  • You must be logged-in to reply to this topic.