Home Forums Thelema Thelema The – Misguided? – Idea of the Thelemic Messiah

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  • #86534

    threefold31
    Participant

    Dwtw

    The words meshiach and nechesh are certainly equivalent, and this may provide a clue. They both equal 358.
    In base 3, the decimal number 358 = 11121. If we reverse these digits we have 121111 = 418.

    So the numbers 358 and 418 are decimal expressions which are reversals of each other in base 3. This suggests that the idea of the messiah/serpent figure is related to 418 and all of its associations, such as the letter Chet spelled in full, the word of the aeon Makhashanah, the key of the rituals Abrahadabra and the concept of TO MH – The Not.

    There seems to be no textual basis in the Holy Books for the concept of a Thelemic ‘messiah’ per se, only certain persons who will come to expound mysteries in Liber AL, as well as another prophet at the dawn of the following Aeon. A messiah is an old aeon concept anyway. If that is something Gunther is proposing, it seems to be an idiosyncratic reading of the texts – something we’re all allowed and encouraged to do, without expecting it to mean anything in a universal sense.

    In Greek, the word is Messias = 656, close to the number of the Beast, and a rare number that is palindromic both in decimal and ternary, where it is 220022.

    A Greek gematria equivalent of Messias is H TELETH – ‘the rites’, or ‘the initiation’ (into the mysteries). This suggests a link with Abrahadabra/418 as the key of the rituals, and “Hoor in his secret name and splendour is the Lord initiating”. So perhaps the so-called ‘messianic’ functions have already been revealed, and it is Hoor who fulfills  this role?

    Litlluw
    RLG

    #86535

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant
    "threefold31" wrote:
    There seems to be no textual basis in the Holy Books for the concept of a Thelemic ‘messiah’ per se, only certain persons who will come to expound mysteries in Liber AL, as well as another prophet at the dawn of the following Aeon. A messiah is an old aeon concept anyway. If that is something Gunther is proposing, it seems to be an idiosyncratic reading of the texts – something we’re all allowed and encouraged to do, without expecting it to mean anything in a universal sense.

    According to Aleister Crowley the two most important Holy Books of Thelema are the three chapter long The Book of the Law, and The Vision and the Voice. The latter Holy Book consists of thirty so-called Aethyrs, starting with the thirtieth Aethyr, and ending with the first Aethyr

    In the thread Correspondences between Crowley´s pre-1904 works and Liber AL – http://www.lashtal.com/forum/http://www.lashtal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=82737#p82737 – I mention that Crowley in the 7th Aethyr of The Vision and the Voice, referres to verse 29 and 30 of the first chapter of The Book the Law, concerning “the nature of Eden”.

    In the said Aethyr it is written that “[…] Eve, whom he [God] created for love, is tempted by the snake, Nechesh, who is Messiah her child. And the snake is the magical power, which hath destroyed the primordial equilibrium.” 

    The just mentioned quote from the second most important Holy Book of Thelema, stating that “the snake, Nechesh” “is Messiah”, can be used as a textual basis in the Holy Books, for the concept of a Thelemic ‘messiah’. And this concept of a “snake” as “Messiah”, is found in the 7th Aethyr where Crowley concerning “the nature of Eden” referres to the most Holy Book of Thelema. The most Holy Book of Thelema contains words like “Burn upon their brows, o splendrous serpent!” (chapter 1, verse 18), “There is the dove, and there is the serpent.” (chapter 1, verse 57), “The Sun, Strength & Sight, Light; these are for the servants of the Star & the Snake” (chapter 2, verse 21) “I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness” (chapter 2, verse 22.) “I am the secret Serpent coiled about to spring: in my coiling there is joy.” (chapter 2, verse 26.), and “O winged snake of light, Hadit!” (chapter 3, verse 38).   

    A reason for not “officially” discussing such a concept of a Thelemic ‘messiah’openly, might be the the risk of being accused of devil worship or Satanism, as the “ancient serpent” in the Bible  is associated with “the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray” (Revelation 12:9).

    #86536

    Azidonis
    Participant

    Serpent, Set, Satan, Hadit, South, etc, (add Kundalini-Shakti and ponder why this ‘female’ attribution is made in light of all the other ‘male’ ones for a nice trick if you can ‘get it’)… it all points to the same idea Crowley went over and again about Messiah being the Son, and the Sun, and 666 therefore the Beast, etc. Couple this with the HGA (Vau) being, at least, somewhat of a reflection of Kether, and you have the tune of the serpent power as the redeemer of humanity by virtue of it’s “activation” in yogic practices.

    This is pretty much common knowledge, yes?

    #86537

    threefold31
    Participant
    "wellreadwellbred" wrote:
    In the said Aethyr it is written that “[…] Eve, whom he [God] created for love, is tempted by the snake, Nechesh, who is Messiah her child. And the snake is the magical power, which hath destroyed the primordial equilibrium.” 

    The just mentioned quote from the second most important Holy Book of Thelema, stating that “the snake, Nechesh” “is Messiah”, can be used as a textual basis in the Holy Books, for the concept of a Thelemic ‘messiah’.

    Dwtw

    It’s quite a stretch to say that a cabalistic correspondence between the words for snake and messiah imply that this is a ‘Thelemic’ messiah being mentioned in this passage. The entire passage is quite Old Testamentary. I don’t see where ‘Eve’ fits into the the Thelemic worldview, nor the ‘creator God’. That’s not to say that the references to them in V&V should be ignored; they are obviously part of the visions of the Aethyrs. But being mentioned doesn’t make them ‘Thelemic’ necessarily.

    Of course, from a cabalistic standpoint, if you substitute ‘nechesh’ for every instance of ‘snake’ or ‘serpent’ in Liber AL, then you are naturally allowing a connection to ‘meshiach’ simply by word-value alone. But the Hebrew words for ‘shame’, ‘renewed’ and ‘the breastplate of the High Priest’ also have the value of 358. Should these be included in the exegesis, or are they ignored because they don’t appear in V&V?

    We might say for argument’s sake that the snake in Liber AL is the Messiah. This seems to be a reference to Hadit in almost all instances. So if Hadit is the Messiah, what is the import for Thelema? Is it simply along the lines of Azidonis’ comments?

    Technically, Messiah simply means ‘anointed one’, which is not quite the same thing as the Redeemer, the one who brings redemption for original sin. Nor is it quite the same thing as the Savior. And one would expect that a ‘Thelemic messiah’ if such a thing existed, would not be confined to the Jewish definition of a leader of the tribes of Israel from the lineage of King David. Focusing on just the ‘leader’ aspect, if one expects the ‘Thelemic messiah’ to be a future leader of the 93 Current, that is not an impossibility, but is certainly doesn’t seem justified by the quote from V&V given above. In the aethyrs we get a cabalistic introduction of the messiah concept. But at the end of the day, and the end of that book, you get “Horus, the Crowned and Conquering Child”. So a lot depends on what one thinks will constitute a ‘messiah’.

    Litlluw
    RLG

    #86538

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    “[…] Eve, whom he [God] created for love, is tempted by the snake, Nechesh, who is Messiah her child. And the snake is the magical power, which hath destroyed the primordial equilibrium.” Quote from The Vision and the Voice, The Cry of the 7th Aethyr, Which is Called DEO. 

    "threefold31" wrote:
    It’s quite a stretch to say that a cabalistic correspondence between the words for snake and messiah imply that this is a ‘Thelemic’ messiah being mentioned in this passage.

     

    The emphasis in the quote from the 7th Aethyr, given at the top of this posting, is not on “a cabalistic correspondence between the words for snake and messiah”. In the said quote it is directly stated that “the snake, Nechesh” […] “is Messiah” (note that Messiah is written with an initial capital letter), and that “the snake is the magical power, which hath destroyed the primordial equilibrium.” 

    "threefold31" wrote:
    We might say for argument’s sake that the snake in Liber AL is the Messiah. This seems to be a reference to Hadit in almost all instances. So if Hadit is the Messiah, what is the import for Thelema?

    “The Devil does not exist. It is a false name invented by the Black Brothers to imply a Unity in their ignorant muddle of dispersions. A devil who had unity would be a God[.]

    “The Devil” is, historically, the God of any people that one personally dislikes. This has led to so much confusion of thought that THE BEAST 666 has preferred to let names stand as they are, and to proclaim simply that AIWAZ — the solar-phallic-hermetic “Lucifer” is His own Holy Guardian Angel, and “The Devil” SATAN or HADIT of our particular unit of the Starry Universe. This serpent, SATAN, is not the enemy of Man, but He who made Gods of our race, knowing Good and Evil; He bade “Know Thyself!” and taught Initiation. He is “the Devil” of the Book of Thoth, and His emblem is BAPHOMET, the Androgyne who is the hieroglyph of arcane perfection.” Source: Chapter 21 Of Black Magick: of the Main Types of the Operations of Magick Art: and of the Powers of the Sphinx. [part] II – http://hermetic.com/crowley/book-4/chap21.html

    In footnote number 11 to The Cry of the 17th Aethyr, Which is Called TAN, in The Vision and the Voice, Crowley provides the following definition of Hadit: “Hadit, i.e. any point which one chooses to consider as being the centre from which to contemplate the universe.” Source: http://hermetic.com/crowley/the-vision-and-the-voice/aethyr17.html

    In footnote number 29 to The Cry of the 21st Aethyr, Which is Called ASP, in The Vision and the Voice, a function of Hadit is explained thus: “In the Ontology of the New Aeon, whose prime theorem is 0 = 2, Kether exists only as the Child of any Marriage of one particular Hadit with one particular aspect of Nuit. There are thus as many Kethers as there are positive possibilities. […]” Source: http://hermetic.com/crowley/the-vision-and-the-voice/aethyr21.html (In the footnote number 41 on page 179 in J. Daniel Gunther’s book Initiation In The Æon of the Child – The Inward Journey, Kether is defined as the “All containing” “(the One) which = None.”)

    In “The comment called “D”” to The Book of the Law, Hadit is described as an ideas without limit, in the following way: “The first two chapters of this Book describe Ideas without limit; the third concerns a fixed Event due to one union of them, namely the coming of HERU-RA-HA.” Source: http://hermetic.com/legis/djeridensis/chapter-iii.html

    The introduction to the long footnote number 17 on page 169 in J. Daniel Gunther’s book Initiation In The Æon of the Child – The Inward Journey, reads like this: “Cf. chapter 5 of this book [Liber LXV]. The symbolism of the advent of the New Aeon, the Lord of the Aeon (Heru-ra-ha) and the Messiah of this Aeon (V.V.V.V.V.) often overlap and are therefore at times indistinguishable. These symbols have an inherent elasticity due to their Universal character. […]”

    At the end of my former posting in this thread I stated that I thougt a reason for not “officially” discussing such a concept of a Thelemic ‘messiah’ openly, might be the the risk of being accused of devil worship or Satanism, as the “ancient serpent” in the Bible  is associated with “the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray” (Revelation 12:9).

    After a closer reading of J. Daniel Gunther’s book Initiation In The Æon of the Child – The Inward Journey, I do not think the just mentioned possible reason, is Gunther’s reason for not being more open than he is in this book when discussing what he on page 169 calls “the Messiah of this Aeon (V.V.V.V.V.)”. (On page 172 and 173 In the said book Gunther quotes and supports the following from Hymenaeus Beta’s editorial introduction to Book Four: “Given Satanism’s ludicrous modern connotation of sociopathic criminality, to term Thelemites ‘Satanists’, as has sometime been done, is slander or libel.”)

    J. Daniel Gunther is not more open than he is in the said book when discussing what he on page 169 calls “the Messiah of this Aeon (V.V.V.V.V.)”, because he adheres to the following contained within chapter 41 of The Book of Lies, and quoted by him on page 125:

    “In V.V.V.V.V. is the Great Work perfect.

    Therefore none is that pertaineth not to V.V.V.V.V.

    In any may he manifest; yet in one hath he chosen to manifest; and this one hath given His ring as a Seal of Authority to the Work of the A∴A∴ through the colleagues of FRATER PERDURABO.

    But this concerns themselves and their administration; it concerneth none below the grade of Exempt Adept, and such an one only by command.

    Also, since below the Abyss Reason is Lord, let men seek by experiment, and not by Questionings. […]” Source: http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib333.html

    “[…] V.V.V.V.V. is the motto of a Master of the Temple (or so much He disclosed to the Exempt Adepts), referred to in Liber LXI. It is he who is responsible for the whole of the development of the A∴A∴ movement which has been associated with the publication of THE EQUINOX; and His utterance is enshrined in the sacred writings.

    It is useless to enquire into His nature; to do so leads to certain disaster. Authority from him is exhibited, when necessary, to the proper persons, though in no case to anyone below the grade of Exempt Adept. The person enquiring into such matters is politely requested to work, and not to ask questions about matters which in no way concern him.” Source: http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib333.html

    In verse 29 and verse 30 in Liber LXI, V.V.V.V.V. is described in the following way:

    “29. Also one V.V.V.V.V. arose, an exalted adept of the rank of Master of the Temple (or this much He disclosed to the Exempt Adepts) and His utterance is enshrined in the Sacred Writings. 30. Such are Liber Legis, Liber Cordis Cincti Serpente, Liber Liberi vel Lapidis Lazuli and such others whose existence may one day be divulged unto you. Beware lest you interpret them either in the Light or in the darkness, for only in L.V.X. may they be understood.” Source: http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib61.html

    Conclusion:
    Above I have quoted warnings against openly discussing V.V.V.V.V., and Liber LXI‘s claim that V.V.V.V.V.’s “utterance is enshrined in” The Book of the Law, which any reader according to the latter book’s so called “THE COMMENT.”, is strictly warned against discussing the content of. I concider these the most likely reasons why J. Daniel Gunther is not more open than he is in his book Initiation In The Æon of the Child – The Inward Journey, when discussing “the Messiah of this Aeon (V.V.V.V.V.)”.

    #86539

    Azidonis
    Participant
    "wellreadwellbred" wrote:
    Conclusion:
    Above I have quoted warnings against openly discussing V.V.V.V.V., and Liber LXI‘s claim that V.V.V.V.V.’s “utterance is enshrined in” The Book of the Law, which any reader according to the latter book’s so called “THE COMMENT.”, is strictly warned against discussing the content of. I concider these the most likely reasons why J. Daniel Gunther is not more open than he is in his book Initiation In The Æon of the Child – The Inward Journey, when discussing “the Messiah of this Aeon (V.V.V.V.V.)”.

    It is a type of oxymoron.

    The one preaching anti-mind-slavery saying that according to a rule x, y cannot occur, is a cop-out at best.

    If there is some uniting Thelemic figure, surely that figure would be able to make many changes. It is a lot of power for anyone to have.

    I do not think that the ‘more radical’ Thelemites would go for the type of chub-rubbery that goes along with a courtship such as would occur around said public figure.

    I suppose it would have to play itself out, as the Wheel turns. Regardless, if the so-called “World Teacher” actually had a Word, why is it such a close-circle, pay-up-front type of deal?

    One may also look at other “World Teacher” customs, and notice trends. There are many examples; any Dalai Lama (and really any Lama for that matter), the Pope, and down the list to include every religious figurehead, because that’s what it will turn into.

    And then, the radicals will seek to preserve the tradition, while the mainstream continues to spread its construct aimed at furthering the mainstream agenda.

    And so forth, and so on… it’s all in the Book, right?

    #86540

    SatansAdvocaat
    Participant

    On the basis that “There is no God but Man”, then surely there is no Messiah but Man, the full and lucid performance of one’s True Will being the living realisation of one’s own Annointed Selfhood.

    There were times in his life that AC did aspire and actively intrigue to become the World Teacher – Churton’s biography is quite informative on this.  He said little about the Antichrist, but what he did say, I seem to recall, was interesting.  But that would probably require some consideration of the role of the Beast in the ‘Revelations’ scenario: 666 is so loosely and regularly mistaken for the number of Satan.

    Jack Parsons, of course, was not so coy at coming forward. 

    #86541

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    The Book of the Law, chapter III, verse 34.: “But your holy place shall be untouched throughout the centuries: though with fire and sword it be burnt down & shattered, yet an invisible house there standeth, and shall stand until the fall of the Great Equinox; when Hrumachis shall arise and the double-wanded one assume my throne and place. Another prophet shall arise, and bring fresh fever from the skies; another woman shall awakethe lust & worship of the Snake; another soul of God and beast shall mingle in the globed priest; another sacrifice shall stain the tomb; another king shall reign; and blessing no longer be poured To the Hawk-headed mystical Lord!” Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/engccxx.htm

    "threefold31" wrote:
    I don’t see where ‘Eve’ fits into the the Thelemic worldview, nor the ‘creator God’. That’s not to say that the references to them in V&V[= The Vision and the Voice] should be ignored; they are obviously part of the visions of the Aethyrs. But being mentioned doesn’t make them ‘Thelemic’ necessarily.

    Biblical terms like ‘Eve’ and ‘snake’ that are mentioned numerous places in The Vision and the Voice, are a part of Thelema, because Crowley considered the latter book to be the second most important Holy book of Thelema after The Book of the Law. In The Vision and the Voice, in The Cry of the 8th Aethyr, Which is Called ZID, Aiwass, “the author of The Book of the Law“, is supposedly speaking, referring directly to The Book of the Law, and stating: “The light is come to the darkness, and the darkness is made light. Then is light married with light, and the child of their love is that other darkness, wherein they abide that have lost name and form. Therefore did I kindle him that had not understanding, and in The Book of the Law did I write the secrets of truth that are like unto a star and a snake and a sword.” Source: http://hermetic.com/crowley/the-vision-and-the-voice/aethyr8.html [Emphasis added.]

    (According to footnote number 1 to the 8th Aethyr, Which is Called ZID, ZID “[…] refer to the attainment of the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel.” Footnote number 2 to the the 8th Aethyr, Which is Called ZID, reads like this: “Aiwass [written with Hebrew letters] then did “kindle” in order to bring us to the N.O.X. of Pan.” This footnote relates to the following statement in The Cry of the 8th Aethyr, a statement which is attributed to Aiwass: “The light is come to the darkness, and the darkness is made light. Then is light married with light, and the child of their love is that other darkness, wherein they abide that have lost name and form. Therefore did I kindle him that had not understanding, and in The Book of the Law did I write the secrets of truth that are like unto a star and a snake and a sword.” [Emphasis added.]

    "threefold31" wrote:
    We might say for argument’s sake that the snake in Liber AL is the Messiah. This seems to be a reference to Hadit in almost all instances. So if Hadit is the Messiah, what is the import for Thelema?

    In my former posting in this thread I wrote: In “The comment called “D”” to The Book of the Law, Hadit is described as an ideas without limit, in the following way:

    “The first two chapters of this Book describe Ideas without limit; the third concerns a fixed Event due to one union of them, namely the coming of HERU-RA-HA.” Source: http://hermetic.com/legis/djeridensis/chapter-iii.html

    In the quote from The Book of the Law, chapter III, verse 34, given at the top of this posting, it is written that “Another prophet shall arise”, and that “another woman shall awakethe lust & worship of the Snake; […].” The in The Book of the Law, chapter III, verse 34, just aforementioned “Snake”, understood both as “Hadit” “an idea without limit”, and as “Messiah”, seems to indicate that this “Snake” and/or “Hadit” and/or “Messiah”, is of a more permanent and lasting nature than Thelema.

    #86542

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    What that is supposedly Aiwass, the author of The Book of the Law, is in the 8th Aethyr in The Vision and the Voice, introduced with the following words:

    “There appears in the stone a tiny spark of light. It grows a little, and seems almost to go out, and grows again, and it is blown about the Aethyr, and by the wind that blows it is it fanned, and now it gathers strength, and darts like a snake or a sword, and now it steadies itself, and is like a Pyramid of light that filleth the whole Aethyr.

    And in the Pyramid is one like unto an Angel, yet at the same time he is the Pyramid, and he hath no form because he is of the substance of light, and he taketh not form upon him, for though by him is form visible, he maketh it visible only to destroy it.” Source: http://hermetic.com/crowley/the-vision-and-the-voice/aethyr8.html [Emphasis added.]

    #86543

    Kharlatan
    Participant

    “There is dew on all the fire. Every drop is the quintessence of the ecstasy of stars (http://hermetic.com/crowley/the-vision-and-the-voice/aethyr1.html).”

    This is clearly a reference – and a confirmation of it’s importancy in a thelemic context – to the gnostic thought of Mercury (dew of the spermia) as a stimulant of sulphur (prana; kundalini engergy), that the dew in fact stimulates the electro magnetic streams in the human body.

    #86544

    newneubergOuch2
    Participant

    I think we get closer to what the thinking is of the AA connected with Gunther (and the OTO most aligned to that branch ) by looking at the Gematria involved (an insight that occurred I believe after initiation in the Aeon of the child book).

    AA=222
    OTO=666

    =888 usually equated with Jesus ala the Messiah.

    888 = Messiah (358 usually) when written in full.

    Jesus also interchangeable with the various Solar current Gods of Tiphereth. OTO being a largely being an Order of the Solar phallic current.

    But Jesus gematria connections aside I am guessing that the Messiah reference is more alluding to the growing  and continued unity between that branch of the AA and the OTO.

    That the final total unity of these two pieces/orders joined will be as a type of Messiah VVVVV.

    #113323

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    (Original Post:) defile959: “I am wondering whether anyone here has encountered the idea of a Thelemic “Messiah” in any of Crowley’s writings, or anything that could potentially support this line of thinking.”

    Yes, after the Editorial AC starts out his The Equinox, Volume I, Number 1, with An Account of A.·.A.·., where he clearly interprets V.V.V.V.V. as the Messiah:

    “This society is in the communion of those who have most capacity for light; they are united in truth, and their Chief is the Light of the World himself, V.V.V.V.V., the One Anointed in Light, the single teacher for the human race, the Way, the Truth, and the Life.” (Source: , Keith Readdy’s book, One Truth and One Spirit: Aleister Crowley’s Spiritual Legacy, page 114 in the 2018 edition.)

    defile959 REPLY #86525: “Though Gunther gives lip service to not wanting to foster a false Soteriology, it seems almost precisely what he is doing. I guess one of the greatest challenges that I see with this line of thought and reasoning is that it appears to be (and I am open to being corrected if I am off base here) something created out of whole cloth by Gunther, and repeated by those who have aligned themselves with the Motta / Gunther A.’.A.’. group.”

    This line of thought and reasoning is not something created out of whole cloth by Gunther, AC does also state that “the uterance” of V.V.V.V.V. “… is enshrined in the Sacred Writings. 30. Such are Liber Legis [= The Book of the Law], Liber Cordis Cincti Serpente, Liber Liberi vel Lapidis Lazuli and such others whose existence may one day be divulged unto you.” (Source: Verse 29. and 30. in Liber 61 or Liber vel Causae, written by AC in 1907)

    “I’ve also heard, though admittedly secondhand, that it has been posited by Gunther and/or his followers that his conception of VVVVV as messianic figure figures in heavily in their claims to be the “one true” A.’.A.’.”

    “… I do think there is a precedent for the concept in the Holy Books themselves. The initials come from there before Crowley was a full 8=3. He [= Gunther] explains a good deal of it in his lecture according to friends in Sekhet Ma’at who attended it. Gunther teaches that there are 5 characters in the Holy Books, Adonai, Magis” (Source: by frateruranus » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:14 am – – – http://www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4696) I don’t know if the “conception of VVVVV as messianic figure”, “… figures in heavily in their claims to be the “one true” A.’.A.’.”, but it is derived from Crowley’s writings.

    #114340

    hermitas
    Participant

    (Original Post:) defile959: “I am wondering whether anyone here has encountered the idea of a Thelemic “Messiah” in any of Crowley’s writings, or anything that could potentially support this line of thinking.”

    (Reply:) wellreadwellbred: “Yes, after the Editorial AC starts out his The Equinox, Volume I, Number 1, with An Account of A.·.A.·., where he clearly interprets V.V.V.V.V. as the Messiah:

    “This society is in the communion of those who have most capacity for light; they are united in truth, and their Chief is the Light of the World himself, V.V.V.V.V., the One Anointed in Light, the single teacher for the human race, the Way, the Truth, and the Life.” (Source: , Keith Readdy’s book, One Truth and One Spirit: Aleister Crowley’s Spiritual Legacy, page 114 in the 2018 edition.)”

    (Me:) That Crowley quote from “An Account of the A.’.A.’.” is full of imagery from the Christian scriptures. I think the implication is scandalous but not in the sense of a *separate* Thelemic messiah. I think it’s scandalous in the sense that it implies there is only one “messiah” (i.e. “single teacher for the human race”) who has historically spoken through more than Crowley and his inspired books.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  hermitas.
    #114352

    Tiger
    Participant

    nice pondering
    nice thread
    welcome hermitas
    and nice pic

    i like Crowley’s style of writing
    one can fall into them
    be whirled around
    and lifted up to magic
    before you hit the ground
    again

    the writing is possibly magic
    and in magic one can enter into a terrain
    possibly a collective
    a tuat of sorts

    along side churchianity
    there were
    gnostic hermetic templar underground currents
    so the pregnant imagery is alive

    draw from it if you like
    tap in

    the terrain can change
    as well as you

    #114353

    hermitas
    Participant

    @tiger

    [tequila warning]

    He’s right there
    Over there
    To the right
    Staring into me

    “What will you make of me?”
    “What Will you?”
    “Do you get it?”
    “Do you get it?”

    Shit
    What a ride.
    Is it real?
    Does it matter?
    If it gets you there?

    Wait.
    Does it matter?
    Wait.
    Wait.
    God.
    It matters more than anything.
    Wait.

    Did you really believe it?
    Master?

    There’s no telling.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  hermitas.
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