Home Forums Thelema Thelema The – Misguided? – Idea of the Thelemic Messiah

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  • #114364

    elitemachinery
    Participant

    @shiva said:

    “defile959” wrote:
    I’m wondering whether anyone here has encountered the idea of a Thelemic “Messiah” in any of Crowley’s writings, or anything that could potentially support this line of thinking.

    Oh, there’s the Liber AL lines about somebody coming to follow that will explain it all. I nominate Achad for the fulfillment of this prophecy. Crowley did too. And there are other lines that suggest somebody else will be coming along for one purpose or another.

    The Second Beast of Revelation 13

    “And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.”

    There’s always that (^) little vision.

    But whether the concept is Thelemic or Biblical, it’s a universal archetypal belief. The Jews are still waiting for their Messiah, and we (the chosen ;)) are not holding our breaths in extended pranayama, are we?

    Everybody wants somebody to come along and save them or to enforce their religious beliefs upon the rest of humanity.

    There are also the lines, “There cometh one to follow thee: he shall expound it,” and “Change not as much as the style of a letter; for behold! thou, o prophet, shalt not behold all these mysteries hidden therein. The child of thy bowels, he shall behold them. Expect him not from the East, nor from the West; for from no expected house cometh that child.”

    So there’s a few hints about subsequent revealers … but of a Messiah?

    @threefold31 said:

    There seems to be no textual basis in the Holy Books for the concept of a Thelemic ‘messiah’ per se, only certain persons who will come to expound mysteries in Liber AL, as well as another prophet at the dawn of the following Aeon. A messiah is an old aeon concept anyway.

    and:

    Technically, Messiah simply means ‘anointed one’, which is not quite the same thing as the Redeemer, the one who brings redemption for original sin. Nor is it quite the same thing as the Savior.

    and:

    In the aethyrs we get a cabalistic introduction of the messiah concept. But at the end of the day, and the end of that book, you get “Horus, the Crowned and Conquering Child”. So a lot depends on what one thinks will constitute a ‘messiah’.

    @wellreadwellbred said:

    A reason for not “officially” discussing such a concept of a Thelemic ‘messiah’openly, might be the the risk of being accused of devil worship or Satanism, as the “ancient serpent” in the Bible is associated with “the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray” (Revelation 12:9).

    @hermitas: said:

    (Me:) That Crowley quote from “An Account of the A.’.A.’.” is full of imagery from the Christian scriptures. I think the implication is scandalous but not in the sense of a *separate* Thelemic messiah. I think it’s scandalous in the sense that it implies there is only one “messiah” (i.e. “single teacher for the human race”) who has historically spoken through more than Crowley and his inspired books.

    Quoted for emphasis and future reference.

    addl reference:

    thread: lashtal.com/forums/topic/hence-my-entire-alias/

    “Hence My Entire Alias” (an anagram poem based on my name michael sean tierney)
    <br>
    Cease, I am inherently=michael sean tierney
    Thence amnesia I rely=michael sean tierney
    Ah trials ye eminence=michael sean tierney
    In Thelema ye can rise=michael sean tierney
    <br>
    A Christ name eye line=michael sean tierney
    Me satanic in he leery=michael sean tierney
    A scalier enemy thine=michael sean tierney
    In me lie Satan cheery=michael sean tierney
    <br>
    A Christian enemy eel=michael sean tierney
    A tenancy Irish melee=michael sean tierney
    Chain me Tierney seal=michael sean tierney
    Me resiliency aneath=michael sean tierney
    <br>
    Satanic helm eye rein=michael sean tierney
    In earthly cinema see=michael sean tierney
    Thelemic year insane=michael sean tierney
    A crime insanely thee=michael sean tierney
    <br>
    Sane elite machinery=michael sean tierney
    Archenemy alien ties=michael sean tierney
    Hail insane cemetery=michael sean tierney
    In cement hearsay lie=michael sean tierney
    <br>
    In hearsay I elect men=michael sean tierney
    Lenient hearsay mice=michael sean tierney
    Hearsay nice? Let me in!=michael sean tierney
    Eminent hearsay lice=michael sean tierney
    <br>
    A machine eerily sent=michael sean tierney
    Shamanic eyelet rein=michael sean tierney
    In chase ye ire lament=michael sean tierney
    Limey teacher insane=michael sean tierney
    <br>
    A seemly inheritance=michael sean tierney
    Ancient my hearse lie=michael sean tierney
    Eye means I clear hint=michael sean tierney
    <br>
    Ah Aleister eminency=michael sean tierney
    I leery me Satan niche=michael sean tierney
    Is an elite archenemy?=michael sean tierney
    Merely asinine teach=michael sean tierney
    <br>
    Ether eminency alias=michael sean tierney
    Aleister enemy chain=michael sean tierney
    Hence, my entire alias=michael sean tierney
    Heretics lye in a name=michael sean tierney

    <br>


    “Well I hope we’re not too messianic
    Or a trifle too satanic
    But we love to play the blues”

    – The Rolling Stones

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  elitemachinery.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  elitemachinery. Reason: formatting
    #114371

    Tiger
    Participant

    @hermitas
    did you eat the worm at the bottom of the mezcal ?

    “I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness”
    (chapter 2, verse 22.)
    “I am the secret Serpent coiled about to spring: in my coiling there is joy.” (chapter 2, verse 26.),
    “O winged snake of light, Hadit!” (chapter 3, verse 38).

    there is no question mark
    unless it was all an illusion

    #114375

    hermitas
    Participant

    @tiger

    🙂

    No, no blind creatures of the slime.
    Just been a while since I believed hard.
    Miss it.
    Probably gonna make another run at it.
    We’ll see.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  hermitas.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  hermitas.
    #114383

    Tiger
    Participant

    @hermitas
    Believing hard might get you in trouble;
    but might set you up for an experience;
    which might get you in trouble.

    Or leave you wondering;
    when you hit the ground,
    that what happened couldn’t have been real ?

    But the experience remains in the background.
    Administer.

    —————————————————————

    defile959 said
    To me, this reads as a further exploration of the relationship between Aspirant and Angel, not between a Messiah and someone in need of being saved. One of the most refreshing facets of Thelema (as I understand and experience it) is that we have no in-born original sin, no need of being “saved”, and no need to look externally for a savior.

    with each Aspirant writing the words as they understand them given their own perception and experiences, each somewhat different and unique, yet all flowing from that one source.

    threefold31 said
    an idiosyncratic reading of the texts – something we’re all allowed and encouraged to do, without expecting it to mean anything in a universal sense.

    Crowley went over and again about Messiah being the Son, and the Sun, and 666 therefore the Beast, etc. Couple this with the HGA (Vau) being, at least, somewhat of a reflection of Kether, and you have the tune of the serpent power as the redeemer of humanity by virtue of it’s “activation” in yogic practices.

    wellread said
    proposing, it seems to be an idiosyncratic reading of the texts – something we’re all allowed and encouraged to do,

    Azidonis said
    Crowley went over and again about Messiah being the Son, and the Sun, and 666 therefore the Beast, etc. Couple this with the HGA (Vau) being, at least, somewhat of a reflection of Kether, and you have the tune of the serpent power as the redeemer of humanity by virtue of it’s “activation” in yogic practices.

    threefold31 said
    Technically, Messiah simply means ‘anointed one’

    But at the end of the day, and the end of that book, you get “Horus, the Crowned and Conquering Child”. So a lot depends on what one thinks will constitute a ‘messiah’.
    —————–
    nice food for thought
    and what of NEMO ?

    #114391

    hermitas
    Participant

    @tiger

    NEMO?
    A man knows nothing of NEMO.
    Agreed.
    Agreeable food for thought.
    Trouble?
    Trouble is it’s been too long.

    Are there really people looking for the coming of some human messiah-figure? I’d really prefer Thelema to be as I prefer. Hmmm. We *are* in the Era of the Hierophant.. I wouldn’t mind an excellent teacher coming along. But a messiah? To do what? Fulfill a Revelation? Convert by the sword? Those are my suspicions, exhortations to “convert not” notwithstanding.

    It makes me shake my head. Hopefully my suspicions are suspect.

    #114393

    Tiger
    Participant

    @hermitas
    Whats been too long ?

    Waiting for a physical messiah ?

    An inner teacher
    that may or may not lead you to
    an excellent teacher ?

    That might reflect, model and augment;
    the star in you ;
    administer self realization
    amongst the crumbling edifice ?

    #114394

    hermitas
    Participant

    @tiger

    It’s been too long since I got swept up in experience. Been in trouble before, for sure. But I find myself wanting a little religion again amid all the reason and psychology.

    No, there’s no waiting for a physical messiah here. lol. I just don’t think it’s about that at all.

    But you see them?
    Over there?
    That insane mob?
    That enormous ocean of people?
    They make things happen.
    They make their dreams come true.

    #114395

    Tiger
    Participant

    @hermitas
    well get a little religion
    get a little reason
    get a little psychology
    look at the ocean
    of people
    making things happen
    from dreams
    Diana of the Ephesians
    come true

    Rising from the caldron is a stream of light.

    The right leading of the new living substance
    in the path of the True Will
    is to be a talisman
    of use in any event.

    ART
    The Equinox Volume III No. V by THE MASTER THERION a short essay on the Tarot of The Egyptians The Book of Thoth

    over there
    i see them
    dreaming
    the light of the world
    working through all

    #114398

    hermitas
    Participant

    @tiger

    I will
    I will
    I will

    Thanks
    Interesting conversation

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by  hermitas.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by  hermitas.
    #114400

    mayet
    Participant

    Crowley went over and again about Messiah being the Son, and the Sun, and 666 therefore the Beast, etc.

    And the Angel that hath spoken with me before, saith to me: The eye of His benignancy is opened; therefore veileth he thine eyes from the vision. Manfully hast thou endured; yet, hast thou been man, thou hadst not endured; and hadst thou been wholly that which thou art, thou shouldst have been caught up in the full vision that is unspeakable for Horror.

    when is the sun not a son?
    when it’s a daughter.

    maybe it’s just me that sees things upside down an opposite to the solar phallic worship In the southern Hemisphere and Aboriginal Legends the sun was female moon was male .. which makes sense if Thoth is the moon.

    Couple this with the HGA (Vau) being, at least, somewhat of a reflection of Kether, and you have the tune of the serpent power as the redeemer of humanity by virtue of it’s “activation” in yogic practices.

    Activation of the serpent in Yogic Practises??? … curiouser and curiouser ….enquiring minds …I’m guessing this doesn’t get discussed openly.

    #114404

    Shiva
    Participant

    m: Activation of the serpent in Yogic Practises??? … curiouser and curiouser …. I’m guessing this doesn’t get discussed openly.

    Oh, it’s discussed rather openly, here and there.
    It’s called Kundalini Yoga.

    #114405

    Tiger
    Participant

    #114446

    mayet
    Participant

    @shiva Oh, it’s discussed rather openly, here and there.
    It’s called Kundalini Yoga.

    So then, Serpent = life itself or a symbiotic part of?

    @tiger Monkey Riding Goat Video

    The monkey reminds me of the magician.. evolved enough to know to use a base part of itself for a higher need (evolvement). Victim Perpetrator relationship. Monkey not evolved enough to k̶n̶o̶w̶ err consider the expense to the goats as separate beings to his world. He knows he is annoying the goats but doesn’t consider them.

    Reminds me of autism…. something part of my own work….. that particular part of evolvement.. evolved enough to know but missing that “consider” bit… https://www.mayet.com.au/blog/

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  mayet.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  mayet.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  mayet.
    #114505

    Shiva
    Participant

    m: So then, Serpent = life itself or a symbiotic part of?

    The inner core of our brain is called the “reptilian” brain. It’s mostly first circuit, survival programming. So we have a lot in common with serpents, deep down. Hadit tells us, “I am life, and the giver of life.” Also, “I am the secret Serpent coiled about to spring ..” So, Life or Symbol? He says, “I am life …” I guess there’s a hint toward the real thing here.

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