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    As promised previously premortem, The Mysteries of Tai Chi, is available for free to you requesters, in a full-color pdf format. The book is 6 or 7 bucks, your pdf is grass, hmm, gratis. Send me an email, Subject Line: SEND TAI, to notarajah@gmail.com



    I hear that in the Chinese tradition the five elements can be regarded as the symbols of the five planets, Metal, Wood, Water, Fire Earth corresponding to Venus, Jupiter, Mercury, Mars, Saturn? Not to be confused the 4 western elements then.

    There is no Chinese-Eastern Quabala as such is there? Yes there’s a number-based manifestation which AC attributed to the English Alphabet but planes and the 4 worlds? Of course the Tibetan Book of the Dead deals with planes and entities and ring-pass-nots but did they have it down to a science like the Quabalists?



    The medical aspect is highly codified (or Qabalaized) – consisting of herbs, points, channels and syndromes. There used to be the esoteric stuff, but the Communists removed it. When I herd that, I asked the instructor, “What kind of stuff?”

    “Oh, for an example,” he said, “drawing a pentagram in the air with a needle before inserting it in the patient.”

    The Chinese have the 5 elements locked in tight in a practical manner. It is used for diagnosis and treatment of patients in their hospitals.

    But (there’s always a butt, isn’t there?), there is also the BaGua (PaKua) system, commonly called the 8 Principles. 5-element acupuncture is predominant in Europe and Eastern USA. It got imported through Germany). 8-principle acupuncture is predominant in Western USA, brought in by the Chinese themselves. One has to have a the Medical QBL memorized for both systems (5 & 8) as part of pasing a licensing exam.

    As for the planets and the esoteric stuff, you would need to investigate the Taoist philosophy. They get into astrology and calligraphy and martial arts. I was lucky to have Chinese teachers direct from the Asian continent. My exposure to Taoism was through a Taiwan lineage (the Taoists ran off to Taiwan, so the Commies couldn’t purge their traditional data).



    There can’t be a “Chinese-Eastern Quabala as such” if what’s meant is something like Gematria.

    The idea of attributing numbers to the constituent letters making up words and adding them doesn’t really translate to a character-based writing system where words are not made up of letters.



    a secret order revealed
    the mysteries of Al Khem ia

    an incarnation of a certain Taoist Immortal

    Disincarnate entities

    not only
    take over bodies

    even bodies assumed
    taking care of business

    get stirred in the Akasic body
    earthed on trees

    as new incarnations
    embroiled in machinations




    free feelin

    On man Oh man




    I was thinking more about a philosophy of planes/worlds e.g Atziluth.



    Planes are identified in The Seven Planes Chart, which correlates quite nicely with the Tree

    Ignant is correct. There are about 50,000 Chinese ideograms. Iknow one of them. The rest is Greek (or Russian) to me. However, they do have an intricate numerology system, with the numbers 3 and 8 being propitious. I know nothing more about this.

    There are also at least 500 dialects of Chinese. Nobody can understand dialects other than their own … but they all use the same written characters. What a mess.



    Fair enough, david, but the Hebrew letters create and constitute the world in orthodox qabalah. YHVH creates the world by speaking words.

    This doctrine just can’t be shoehorned into a character-based system.

    We can find correlations, because it’s all the same thing at some level, but played out quite differently in different cultures and within cultures in different times.

    Despite 777‘s contrary position, it just isn’t true that one can neatly correlate all the facts, facets, and figures of magick and mysticism of all cultures in all times, like some sort of Supernal Accountant.




    There can’t be a “Chinese-Eastern Quabala as such” if what’s meant is something like Gematria.

    The idea of attributing numbers to the constituent letters making up words and adding them doesn’t really translate to a character-based writing system where words are not made up of letters.

    Curiously enough, there was such a gematria system for cuneiform in Mesopotamia, and there exist tablets which assign a specific number to a specific sign in one of the basic syllabaries, Syllabary A, which contains 211 characters.

    The bad news is that it is not intuitive, e.g. signs don’t seem to be able to be broken down into their constituent parts in order to understand why a given number is assigned; there is no correlation between the sign’s ordinal place in the syllabary and its number, etc. The system is absolutely consistent across the 5 or 6 tablets from different locations and times that preserve it (all first millennium I believe), but without being able to understand the logic of it, the consensus is that it is arbitrary.

    There is also a system, unrelated, of calling gods by numbers, e.g. Ishtar is 15, as well as other things, just known by a number. There is also one in which Sargon says “the number of my name, 16,280”, which was noted and explained unsatisfactorily in the 19th century. So there are some who think that alphabet gematria was an imitation of cuneiform gematria, but it is clearly not on the same principles.

    I’ll dig up my short bibliography on it, maybe some of the older articles are online.



    I suppose that the closest things to the YHVH “worlds” in Asian mysticism are the bardos of Tibetan Buddhism as follows (wiki);

    Kyenay bardo (skye gnas bar do): is the first bardo of birth and life. This bardo commences from conception until the last breath, when the mindstream withdraws from the body.
    Milam bardo (rmi lam bar do): is the second bardo of the dream state. The Milam Bardo is a subset of the first Bardo. Dream Yoga develops practices to integrate the dream state into Buddhist sadhana.
    Samten bardo (bsam gtan bar do) is the third bardo of meditation. This bardo is generally only experienced by meditators, though individuals may have spontaneous experience of it. Samten Bardo is a subset of the Shinay Bardo.
    Chikhai bardo (‘chi kha’i bar do): is the fourth bardo of the moment of death. According to tradition, this bardo is held to commence when the outer and inner signs presage that the onset of death is nigh, and continues through the dissolution or transmutation of the Mahabhuta until the external and internal breath has completed.
    Chönyi bardo (chos nyid bar do): is the fifth bardo of the luminosity of the true nature which commences after the final ‘inner breath’ (Sanskrit: prana, vayu; Tibetan: rlung). It is within this Bardo that visions and auditory phenomena occur. In the Dzogchen teachings, these are known as the spontaneously manifesting Thödgal (Tibetan: thod-rgyal) visions. Concomitant to these visions, there is a welling of profound peace and pristine awareness. Sentient beings who have not practiced during their lived experience and/or who do not recognize the clear light (Tibetan: od gsal) at the moment of death are usually deluded throughout the fifth bardo of luminosity.
    Sidpa bardo (srid pa bar do): is the sixth bardo of becoming or transmigration. This bardo endures until the inner-breath commences in the new transmigrating form determined by the “karmic seeds” within the storehouse consciousness.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  dom.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  dom. Reason: embolden


    My post just disappeared.

    I was saying that the closest thing to the YHVH worlds in Asian mysticism is probably the bardos of Tibetan Buddhism.



    Li Qian Kan Kun

    Qi Jing Shen Jing

    Shijie xingjie

    heh heh


    Jamie J Barter

    Isn’t there something written down in the Guidelines about every post needing to be in the English language? Can you possibly provide a translation there, Tiger? For those of us unlike yourself who are not quite such cunning linguists, I mean.

    hee hee
    Norma N Joy Conquest



    ” Big Concealment said,
    “If you confuse the constant strands of Heaven and violate the true form of things, then Dark Heaven will reach no fulfillment.
    Instead, the beasts will scatter from their herds, the birds will cry all night, disaster will come to the grass and trees, misfortune will reach even to the insects.
    Ah, this is the fault of men who ‘govern’!”

    “Then what should I do?” said Cloud Chief.

    “Ah,” said Big Concealment,
    “you are too far gone! Up, up, stir yourself and be off!”

    Cloud Chief said,
    “Heavenly Master, it has been hard indeed for me to meet with you—I beg one word of instruction!”

    “Well, then—mind‑nourishment!” said Big Concealment. “You have only to rest in inaction and things will transform themselves. Smash your form and body, spit out hearing and eyesight, forget you are a thing among other things, and you may join in great unity with the deep and boundless. Undo the mind, slough off spirit, be blank and soulless, and the ten thousand things one by one will return to the root—return to the root and not know why. Dark and undifferentiated chaos—to the end of life none will depart from it. But if you try to know it, you have already departed from it. Do not ask what its name is, do not try to observe its form. Things will live naturally end of themselves.” ”

    parable about “Cloud Chief”  and “Big Concealment” that uses the Shijing compound xianxian (“dance; jump”):

    ” liberation from the corpse
    open out; unfurl, unfold; reveal
    Shijie is similar to the word bianhua (“transformation; metamorphosis”) and its synonymous components bian ( “change; alter”) and hua ( “change; transform”).

    “notoriously slippery term” with “the potential for confusion”, and sometimes “misrepresented or interpreted in a way too vague to be intelligible”

    The huà ( “change; transform; convert”) in bianhua occurs in several Daoist alternative terms for shijie. Jiěhuà ( with the jie “release; etc.” in shijie) means “liberate the mortal body and attain the Dao”. Xiāohuà ( with “melt away; disintegrate”) means “release the physical body and transform into a xian” ”


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