Home Forums Thelemic Culture and Crowley in the Media Requests The Practice of the Magical Diary

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  • #42034

    Michael Staley
    Participant
    "Camlion" wrote:
    In dismissing their methods of dicerning and doing true Will, you are dismissing the sort Thelemites in question, the sorts other than your own sort. Some of these folks reckon that there is more to their methods than improved concentration, as you know well. When Crowley used an I Ching inquiry to locate a new residence, for example, he was not trying to improve his powers of concentration. Both your sort of Thelemite and the other sorts relevant (within reason) today derive from Crowley one way or another, imo. To each their own, but you choose to object openly to the methods of other sorts of Thelemites because your own experience can not confirm the veracity of their methods and your interests do not include experimenting with such things. Kind of a futile waste of energy trying to refine the whole of Thelemites down to just your preferred sort, but have at it, and have a good day and evening. 🙂

    He’s into his “fancy pictures”, Camlion. Leave him to it.

    Best wishes,

    Michael.

    #42035

    Tiger
    Participant

    Did I leave the keys here or somewhere in my waking state?

    #42036

    Camlion
    Participant
    "MichaelStaley" wrote:
    "Camlion" wrote:
    In dismissing their methods of discerning and doing true Will, you are dismissing the sort Thelemites in question, the sorts other than your own sort. Some of these folks reckon that there is more to their methods than improved concentration, as you know well. When Crowley used an I Ching inquiry to locate a new residence, for example, he was not trying to improve his powers of concentration. Both your sort of Thelemite and the other sorts relevant (within reason) today derive from Crowley one way or another, imo. To each their own, but you choose to object openly to the methods of other sorts of Thelemites because your own experience can not confirm the veracity of their methods and your interests do not include experimenting with such things. Kind of a futile waste of energy trying to refine the whole of Thelemites down to just your preferred sort, but have at it, and have a good day and evening. 🙂

    He’s into his “fancy pictures”, Camlion. Leave him to it.

    Best wishes,

    Michael.

    You jest, I know, Michael, but actually Los makes a very important point with his “fancy pictures,” a term borrowed from Crowley. The classic case in my own experience is the old ‘rock star syndrome.’ Every since the Beatles came to America, partly due my being based in LA, I’ve known hundreds of people whose life goals were to become rock stars and who directed all of their efforts toward that end. A few of them actually succeeded, but the rest did not and in the case of most of them they had no true inclination or aptitude for it in the first place, just a “fancy picture” of themselves.

    Life goals are of vital importance and should always be in accord with true Will, obviously, but this fact is still mostly neglected in our teaching of children at present. This should be taught to children without exception, and I was fortunate to be able to do so with mine, but only because I had learned about true Will myself and then applied the concept to real life circumstances.

    A more general example of artificial life goals is when they are arbitrarily selected by parents for their children without any regard for the true Will, the innate inclinations and aptitudes of those individuals. Usually with best of intentions, of course, but often with disastrous results. This usually produces unhappy, unfulfilled and inept doctors, lawyers and such.

    Then there the standardized artificial life goals such as marriage, child rearing and the like, which are most definitely not really for everyone, as is almost universally supposed at present, and perpetuate so many more miseries.

    No, Los’ (and Crowley’s) caution against “pretty pictures” is a very valid one.

    #42037

    AEternitas
    Participant
    "ianrons" wrote:
    One of the lasting misapprehensions that students of Crowley seem to have is that they don’t realise there is a difference, for instance between an imaginary visualisation of an angel and an angel.

    I thought Crowley touched on making this kind of distinction in the chapter in Magick dealing with the Astral plane.

    thread necromancy (sorry, this one is interesting to me at the moment.)

    #42038

    Swamiji
    Participant
    "ianrons" wrote:
    "tai" wrote:
    And while you’re pondering your answer to Camlion please provide sources or examples to back up the following claim:

    "ianrons" wrote:
    the Holy Books are absolutely superb, but sadly these days I’m inclined to think that the Holy Books were simply religious propaganda pieces, that his actions were largely motivated by his own ego and that his religious instructions were recycled from other sources dishonestly and without thought.

    Thanks.

    Well, how about this instruction (by an Exempt Adept no less!):
    “The fourth position: (The Thunderbolt). Sit; left heel pressing up anus, right foot poised on its toes, the heel covering the phallus; arms stretched out over the knees; head and back straight.” (Liber E, Cap. III v.6)

    (see also http://hermetic.com/crowley/equinox/i/i/images/101_029.jpg)

    then compare with this (the original):
    “Press firmly the heel of the left foot against the perineum, and the right heel above the male organ.” (Hathayoga Pradipika, v.37)

    Obviously Crowley was *mistaken*, in a way that Woodroffe was *not* (at least in the Dover edition). Crowley was a tourist, yet he had the nerve to take photographs of himself illustrating this position!

    93

    Sorry to do some thread necromancy here, but I would comment that while it is clear that Crowley was operating in a time when there was vastly less material or teaching available for western study of eastern yoga, his basic practices are sound, though very rigid. I could accept the argument that his yogic practices are (unnecessarily?) harsh, but not that they are useless.

    In fact, its very hard to tell from either that photo or the one from the equinox, neither of which are very ideal for examination, but I’ve seen yogis who have no connection whatsoever to Crowley or Thelema using postsures similar to that one.

    93 93/93
    Swami

    #42039

    Swamiji
    Participant
    "ianrons" wrote:
    "Camlion" wrote:
    Yes, but a mantra is a rather complex form of Dharana. The visual equivalent would be an image with multiple parts in varying degrees of motion, as compared to a single simple two dimensional geometrical object, as Crowley recommends. Not a place I’d like to start at with Dharana, myself. I had similar complaints with various ‘schools’ teaching meditation techniques at the time that I started, such as SRF – which I was involved with the year before, in 1968.

    Well, mantra isn’t a very effective method IMO; but then I could be critical of dharana in other ways, in that its overly cerebral nature is unhelpful.

    93

    Regarding mantra, its “effectiveness” depends on how it is applied. Its true that japa-style bead-counting fast repetition (what you could call the “hare krishna” method) is mainly a religious practice rather than an esoteric discipline and is of limited usefulness other than to achieve a kind of trance state; but mantra as a practice of vocal concentration and vibration (not unlike the vibrating of god-names or “ineffable names” or what have you in the west) is a highly productive practice used in many eastern schools.

    As to dharana, suggesting it is “cerebral” and therefore “unhelpful” is utterly missing the point of it. Eastern practices take two basic forms: intense concentration and profound relaxation. Both have their virtues. The former engages the mind at the beginning so that you can transcend the mind. I think in this sense you can very much understand why Crowley would have immediately have seen its relation to magickal practices, which often do exactly the same thing.

    93 93/93
    Swami

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