Home Forums Thelema Thelema Thelema and Martinism

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  • #110281

    redman
    Participant

    93

    I have not seen much material online investigating the relationship or compatibility of Thelema (either in Crowley’s time as received or in its expanded and evolved state in Kenneth Grant’s material) and Martinism.

    I would love to hear people’s insights into the compatibility of the two and views on this topic. There seem to be many things in Martinez de Pasqually’s writings that are quite Thelemic in my own humble opinion.

    93 93/93

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    #110282

    wellreadwellbred
    Participant

    “The doctrine of Martinez is described as a key to any eschatological cosmology. God, the primordial Unity, had a desire to emanate beings from his own nature, but Lucifer, who wanted to exercise his own creative power, fell victim to his own faults. In his fall, which included his followers, he found himself trapped within an area designated by God to serve as their prison. God sent man, in an androgynous body and endowed with glorious powers, to keep Lucifer’s rebels at bay and work towards their reconciliation. Adam prevaricated himself and fell into the very prison he was to contain, becoming a physical and mortal being, and was so thus forced to try to save both himself and the original creation. It can be done via inner perfection with the help of Christ, but also by the theurgic operations that Martinez taught to the men of desire he found worthy of receiving his initiation.

    Through these rites, the disciple is to enter into relations with angelic entities that appear in the operations as passes. These are to appear mostly in the form of characters or hieroglyphs of spirits invoked by the operator, as proofs that he is on the proper way of reintegration.” (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martinez_de_Pasqually)

    #110293

    Shiva
    Participant

    WRWB: The doctrine of Martinez is described …

    … in a very straightforward manner. The creation myth seems to be right out of the Bible, and other cultures’ creation stories, and the angelic appearances serving as a sign, a “waypost,” of being on the right path ring true (to me).

    #110294

    redman
    Participant

    Thank you but I was mainly looking for insight on how Martinism & Thelema are compatible and views on how the two currents work together. The only area where I have seen them co-exist in one system is in Michael Bertiaux’s work, which was influenced by both streams.

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    #110295

    redman
    Participant

    Sorry shiva my very last post was meant for the post before yours..lol

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    #110296

    redman
    Participant

    If you read Pasqually’s material…some of it seems quite Thelemic, then again so does much of the Gnostic material…I wonder how much Crowley would have been aware of Martinism in his time? I realize Kenneth Grant must have been aware of it for sure but it doesn’t really come up in his work. Perhaps Michael Staley could offer insight here of Kenneth ever discussing Martinism or Pasqually’s work in any way…

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    #110310

    Michael Staley
    Participant

    @redman

    I can’t recall Martinism ever coming up in my conversations with Kenneth Grant. The only reference to it in the Typhonian Trilogies that I can find is in The Magical Revival. Writing about the predecessors of the occult revival:

    Cagliostro succeeded in forming a link with the Martinist Order (founded by Martinez Pasqually in 1754), with which Anton Mesmer was also involved. The Illuminati gradually gained control of all important Orders until an illuminized network of occult societies had been created.

    (The Magical Revival, Starfire Publishing Ltd., London, 2010, p.11.)

    #110313

    redman
    Participant

    Thank you Michael.

    I think with regards to Martinism, more documents have been available recently than ever before.

    Here is a quote from The Red Book by Louis Claude de Saint Martin:

    “Purification is accomplished only by union with the true law of our being; all who are outside that law can expiate nothing; they only contaminate themselves more deeply”

    ….or read another way, “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.”

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    #110361

    pegasus
    Participant

    Michael – Cagliostro succeeded in forming a link with the Martinist Order (founded by Martinez Pasqually in 1754), with which Anton Mesmer was also involved. The Illuminati gradually gained control of all important Orders until an illuminized network of occult societies had been created.

    Ah I see this as The inherent problem of the world… control opens the door for corruption

    #110370

    Alan_OBrien
    Participant

    Michael – Cagliostro succeeded in forming a link with the Martinist Order (founded by Martinez Pasqually in 1754), with which Anton Mesmer was also involved. The Illuminati gradually gained control of all important Orders until an illuminized network of occult societies had been created.

    Ah I see this as The inherent problem of the world… control opens the door for corruption

    Illuminized does not mean corrupt. It means enlightened.

    #110373

    Tiger
    Participant

    The dark side adversary
    came and organized life love and liberty for you
    presented as papal decree
    a promise of salvation;
    not in the here and now
    as the human condition evolves;
    but after the euthanasia .

    the lower discursive mind likes to control eternity
    The higher mind aligns to light

    influence or direction might be better terms than control

    all tools if perhaps a warrior emerges in the theater of war .

    just plopping my 2pence in .

    #110374

    Tiger
    Participant

    and if the lower mind would align
    and the higher mind influence,
    perhaps the possibility of a link could happen

    #110376

    Shiva
    Participant

    T:… a promise of salvation;
    not in the here and now
    as the human condition evolves;
    but after the euthanasia .

    Oh well. There goes the whole Osirian promise down the drain. Buy now – Pay later.

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