July 16, 2019 at 5:24 pm #115145
What I had so eloquently (of course- tongue in cheek) written which then didn’t post, regarding Thelemic Politics was something akin to this:
AC was very conflicted in his political beliefs, but I do believe as a staunch English nationalist that he would have been for strong borders, national sovereignty and strictly controlled immigration. I say conflicted bc I believe one of the ‘laws’ he wrote in Oz was ‘man has the right to move where and how we will,’ which obviously conflicts a bit with strong borders.
Which brings me to my next point. In his idea about ‘kingly men,’ ruling over the hoi polloi by a kind of spiritual mandate and by virtue of their higher education and rational and spiritual evolution, this looks a lot like me to the ideal U.S.A.
The founding fathers envisioned not a mob-rule, open borders democratic socialism, based on knee-jerk reactions and emotional outbursts to feigned and overblown ‘problems,’ (which the American left seems to be trying for today) but rather a government and country ruled by ‘kingly men’ in a constitutional republic. These men would be appointed by virtue of their values and learning, to ensure that the rabid majority does not pull the country down into chaos and infighting. So I think America as a constitutional republic, at least on paper and what a lot of people are still fighting for, is very Thelemic in nature at least in regards to AC’s ‘initiated/kingly men’ principle.July 16, 2019 at 7:37 pm #115146
cs: ‘man has the right to move where and how we will,’ which obviously conflicts a bit with strong borders.
WILL is the keyword. If it’s your (chokmah-based) Will to penetrate an Iron Curtain or a Metal Wall, you will do it! Do that and none shall say nay.
If is your desire, or mentally-designed plan, to penetrate said Border, but it is not supported by Chokmah, then you’ll get shot or arrested … or maybe the luck of Jupiter (Chesed) will get you through.
If we use the word “want” instead of Will, the conflict arises. If we hold fast to “Will,” there is no conflict. Wu wei, and all that not.
This brings up a latent point. Anyone who says “I have determined that it is my Will to …” and who is blurting this out below the Abyss, is full of it.
Now, on the causal plane (Chesed-Geburah-Tiphareth), one’s Will may be loosely defined as (1) Making contact with one’s Angel/Anima, then (2) doing what the Angel/Anima tells you to do. These are both generic definitions, but (in this case) one size fits all. Any performance of directions or orders is actually hearsay – a two-stage dialog. Anyone whose been in military service, or was in Solar Lodge after 1971, knows how to take orders. If the Angel’s orders are misunderstood, usually due to mental analysis, then Will has nothing to do with it.
It has been stated by AC that the HGA contact is the True Will of everyone. After that, it has been stated that Binah is the first “resting place” or “plateau” on the Path, and I concur. But a “perfected human” unit is established at Chokmah.
Note: The “perfect” part is at Chokmah. If your operating out of Chokmah, you’re in (temporary) perfection. But if you’re running around on Chesed or Yesod, babbling apish nonsense through the Malkuthian mouth or keyboard, then welcome to the unprfected human state.
cs: In his idea about ‘kingly men,’ ruling over the hoi polloi by a kind of spiritual mandate and by virtue of their higher education and rational and spiritual evolution, this looks a lot like me to the ideal U.S.A.
Yeah, that’s his Aristocratic Communism. I am hot convinced by the term “higher education.” It implies mental training and thinking. I completely accept “Spiritual evolution,” but would not place any hope in an administration of Kings, unless said system had a living Magister at its core.
Secret Chiefs who are ascended or immaterial don’t count.
I would put forth the concept that the Kings do not rule through political systems or armed enforcers. They rule “the many and the known” by making internal changes within themselves, but at such and expanded level that the collective unconscious is affected.
cs: Founding Fathers … government and country ruled by ‘kingly men’ in a constitutional republic. These men would be appointed by virtue of their values and learning, to ensure that the rabid majority does not pull the country down
The founding fathers were generally cool dudes.
“In 1776, there were no parties, there were just patriots. Twenty years later, two parties opposed each other in the elections for the first time. And it’s been downhill ever since.” – Megatron, 1st ray
The lesson here is that no matter how clean and balanced any system is, it’ll only be a short time ’til the dark side creeps in to cause duality and thereby benefit in power and/or money. This hold true in politics, science, military, religion, etc.
Test drive that concept and report any bugs.July 16, 2019 at 7:48 pm #115147
Trump’s camps are not “death camps”, but they are absolutely “concentration camps”- they are camps where “undesirables” are concentrated, so they can be mistreated (lack of air, food, water, toilets, sanitary supplies (like toothbrushes and menstrual products for female internees). Sub-Fuehrer Pence visited one recently, these are not debatable claim
Purposely mistreated or is this about ordinarily adequate services being swamped a la the laws of supply and demand? As Christibrany said there was no knee-jerk SJW outrage when Obama used the same camps. If a million people suddenly swamped your part of town I’m sure there wouldn’t be enough bottles of water, toilet paper and tampons to go around yet you imply that this is a cruel orchestrated event. This noble notion of the USA “bring me your tired poor huddled masses” you think that that was about human rights? It was about nation-building a long time ago in a different era when US industry needed “huddled masses” to come over from European autocracies and get down on the American factory floor etc.
It’s a tragedy for sure when us humans have to get ourselves and our children out of war-torn regions. It’s easy to criticise how this is handled but What would you do? You just can’t allow a country to be swamped. My proposed solution would be an internationally agreed area in the world preferably the middle of a massive middle eastern desert where we could build a new decently housed “country” or zone which is designed only for fleeing people and asylum seekers. They could be shipped in and flown in and managed on humanitarian grounds.
July 16, 2019 at 10:01 pm #115149
- This reply was modified 2 months, 4 weeks ago by dom.
‘… no matter how clean and balanced any system is, it’ll only be a short time ’til the dark side creeps in to cause duality …’
That’s Malkuth/ Earth in a nutshell, innit?
Purpose: school/training camp
Result: ?July 16, 2019 at 11:29 pm #115150
“Purposely mistreated or is this about ordinarily adequate services being swamped a la the laws of supply and demand?”
My money is on “purposely mistreated”.July 16, 2019 at 11:59 pm #115151July 17, 2019 at 12:32 am #115153
Jamie J BarterParticipant
… or maybe the luck of Jupiter (Chesed) will get you through.
Could you perhaps explain a bit more about this concept please, as I’ve not really come across it much before. Presumably the luck referred to is “good” luck (like a “get out of jail free” card – not like the song has it, “if it wasn’t for bad luck, I’d have no luck at all”…) And by “get through to” do you mean penetrate to Binah en route for the fabled land of Chokmah, or across “the said Border” without getting shot or arrested (or some weird hybrid of the two?)
Yeah, that’s his [AC’s] Aristocratic Communism?
Did Crowley ever use this particular phrase though? I was always under the impression he referred to this particular -ism not so much as Communism (more of a post-WW2 term) as Bolshevism?
Schmaybe … schmaybe not?…
My solution; middle eastern international desert safe-haven zone..
Where precisely” would this (large enough) desert zone for all this mass exodus be located, then? (You don’t mean Palestine?!) And who would be “collectively” responsible for organizing all of its infrastructure, paying for it, etc? Etc?
“No spill blood”,
N joyJuly 17, 2019 at 1:29 am #115155
j: Could you perhaps explain a bit more about this concept please, as I’ve not really come across it much before. Presumably the luck referred to is “good” luck (like a “get out of jail free” card …
That was a semi-sarcastic remark on AC’s inclusion of “luck” somewhere. I do not reveal my sources if I cannot remember their venue.
“Luck” is generally considered to be associated with Jupiter and The Wheel Atu. Personally, I don’t believe in Luck, and possibly neither do you. We live in a world of Cause & Effect. Sometimes we can’t see the cause, so we call it Luck (bad or good), or say “The Angels brought it,” or “I was lucky to slip past that Border Guard and those Bad Dogs and Hell-i-copters.”
j: Did Crowley ever use this particular phrase though?
Oh, yes. In a philosophic discussion of OTO, or in a philosophical paragraph in the Constitution, or in Magick Without Tears, or … I do not reveal my sources if I cannot remember their venue.
j: And who would be “collectively” responsible for organizing all of its infrastructure, paying for it, etc? Etc?
UNESCO, or some United Nations agency. Give freely to the charity of your choice.July 17, 2019 at 3:15 am #115156
ohmJuly 17, 2019 at 4:31 am #115157
my vote is that dom pays for it.
Anyone else please elect dom !
And to convince
the politically got it right;
Let dom vote as well,
might as well be fair and honest
and count .July 17, 2019 at 1:46 pm #115158
Jamie J BarterParticipant
Even harder to tell than the real thing… Thanks for your explanation with which I concur; luck is just too nebulous as it stands.
“Luck” is generally considered to be associated with Jupiter and The Wheel Atu.
Yes. Or more specifically, “Fortune”.
UNESCO, or some United Nations agency.
That’s the answer most people come up with as the natural choice – or more specifically, when people say the “UN” they usually end up meaning the Security Council of “the Big Six”, with the biggest clout However, although a hypothetical instance, the costs involved would be many times its current budget. Who will want to pay for this, on top of whatever charge for counter-carbonisation in order to avert a climate-change crisis?
July 17, 2019 at 1:52 pm #115160
- This reply was modified 2 months, 4 weeks ago by Jamie J Barter.
Where’s the international desert safety zone going to be? I’m sure there are vast deserts available far away from other countries. Maybe Antarctica instead i don’t know.July 17, 2019 at 3:03 pm #115161
jb: Who will want to pay for this, on top of whatever charge …
Nobody. Back to the drawing board. I guess it’s every nation for itself. Besides, we know the UN is generally ineffective.
d: Maybe Antarctica instead i don’t know.
Neither does anyone else. Back to the drawing board. I guess it’s every nation for itself. Except in the EU they allocate (impose upon) their nation-members to accept migrants.July 17, 2019 at 3:56 pm #115162
I’m sure there are vast deserts available far away from other countries. Maybe Antarctica instead i don’t know.
These deserts are not areas “far away from other countries”, but within the borders of countries. Desert areas can be made fertile with a lot of work; for example, Jewish settlement in Palestine in the 19th and 20th Centuries.
Maybe Antarctica instead i don’t know.
Kinda cold and inhospitable, isn’t it? Perhaps not that much of an improvement on Trump’s concentration camps.July 17, 2019 at 7:12 pm #115163
Far from built up areas yes Michael thankyou.
Border control crises shouldn’t be any one country’s problem or issue. It’s a U.N. problem, why lumber one government with it and blame their leaders? The only solution is for an internationally sanctioned zone to be set up.
- This reply was modified 2 months, 4 weeks ago by dom.
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