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Jamie J Barter
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25/06/2019 10:35 pm  

Schmthelema and schmpolitics?

Oh, I feel sorry for you there, dom, if this is a confession on your part and your "you" actually means "I", there --- you're saying that you can't even do the prescribed exercises? That's fairly elementary level stuff, isn't it?

I recommend: keep on practising at it then, and one day...

..."Gotcha"!
N Joy


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dom
 dom
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25/06/2019 10:45 pm  

Hilarious.

Not.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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25/06/2019 11:42 pm  

See, dom, that's your trouble these days: you've hardly any sense of humour, which is why you prove so irresistable to those who may want to rattle your cage to see how you react. But to be serious: what would you estimate is the proportion of "backstabbing scallywag assholes in it for themselves [who] rise through the ranks" spoiling it for everyone else? Is it a majority? The same proportion as those with a sociopathic outlook in the community (roughly estimated about 1 in 20)? Or what? .And do you think it's practically impossible for the rest to be able to deal with that rogue element?


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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26/06/2019 12:55 am  

@Mayet
I heartily disagree with the Über-simplistic statement you put forth 'a soldier is a soldier, a scribe is a scribe etc'
I subscribe in my life to the ideal of the Renaissance man, and also the Homeric hero.
I believe we all have the ability if we put our minds and Will to it, to excel at many things. For example Crowley with not just chess and magick but also mountain climbing.
Myself I enjoy keeping fit with hiking, weights, etc, keen with shooting while still reading studying, and doing magick/mysticism and playing and improving at drums and languages.
I think to limit yourself to one archetype or role in life is very shortsighted.

Also this thread has ballooned exponentially in a few days so I have to read more of it.


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Tiger
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26/06/2019 2:53 am  

you’re saying that you can’t even do the prescribed exercises?
i’m still figuring out a scheme and hoe to coerce other beings
i mean
whose going to to the laundry ?


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dom
 dom
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26/06/2019 7:55 am  

@jbarter

No humour?

But to be serious: what would you estimate is the proportion of “backstabbing scallywag assholes in it for themselves [who] rise through the ranks” spoiling it for everyone else? Is it a majority? The same proportion as those with a sociopathic outlook in the community (roughly estimated about 1 in 20)? Or what? .And do you think it’s practically impossible for the rest to be able to deal with that rogue element?

I know not. Communal vigilante policing...imagine that haha.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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26/06/2019 5:15 pm  

jb: Dom seems to growing ever more reactionary and right wing with every fresh post ...

Not only that, but have you noticed that (recently) he has trouble composing a post without adding some form of derogatory or "gutter" language.

"... ie backstabbing scallywag assholes ..."

d: Who cares what the given external economic system is ...

Everyone should care (to their own capability), even if they can't do the basic practicess, because they are affected by said system.


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dom
 dom
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26/06/2019 6:30 pm  

Shiva are you following this thread? I used the term "assholes" to refer to "assholes" who unscrupulously take advantage of movements like marxism and anarchism for their own destructive ends.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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26/06/2019 7:53 pm  

d: Shiva are you following this thread?

Sort of, and barely. Please excuse me if I'm not a follower.

I used the term “assholes” to refer to “assholes” who unscrupulously take advantage of movements like marxism and anarchism for their own destructive ends.

Yes. And almost every police officer refers to a perpetrator as an "asshole." But that doesn't take it out of the gutter. I'm not beyond using a "water channel at the edge of a road" term now and then, for emphatic emphasis. But I only cited one example from your post here in this thread. If we run around and gather up all the recent threads, it appears that you are the one most likely to use language unfit for publication in the USA.

I'm no prude, you can take that to the bank, and I understand that in the UK and Aus, "swear words" are often printed in the newspaper when quoting or attacking ... I'm just mentioning your "filthy keyboard" because it's been happening more and more lately.

Have you considered anger management therapy?

I agree with your sentiments regarding the efforts of the minions of the Black Lodge. I am not suggesting that your mouth and keyboard be washed out with soap ... but NEMO makes black words white.


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Jamie J Barter
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26/06/2019 8:10 pm  

@dom :

No humour?
"Hardly any" "these days". Apparently replaced by a heightened sense of self (small s) regard, more's the pity alas!

I know not.
Know not, but speaketh (writeth) much.

Communal vigilante policing...
You've chosen two words with emotive overtones but, yes that sort of thing (social pressure). There are no easy answers (otherwise they would have been tried already) but you don't appear to have any better or more constructive ideas except to pour general derision. Well, actually your solution seems to be "communal state (i.e., official/ "ordained") policing" instead.

imagine that haha.
Fancy, yes. Just imagine!

Aha ha
N Joy


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dom
 dom
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26/06/2019 8:27 pm  

Me angry? Me? No sense of humour?

I'M NOT AN ANARCHIST!! I'M NOT THE ANTICHRIST!"! I KNOW WHAT I WANT AND I KNOW HOW TO GET IT (free markets and good policing)

Anyway, joking aside...

@shiva

Sort of, and barely. Please excuse me if I’m not a follower.

Well you're not following the thread but you're criticizing my last couple of posts. That's not fair. Your missing the thread but projecting your own conclusions about me. I suggest you forget me but follow the thread of my ideas here instead.

Maybe contribute to the OP.

Arguing about politics get emotive especially when we're discussing anarchy. Maybe watch some UK parliamentary question time to get a sense of it. Don't watch the Italian one, you may find one politician with his throat around another one haha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2u7Osh0diM

@jbarter

Well, actually your solution seems to be “communal state (i.e., official/ “ordained”) policing” instead.

What did we do before Robert Peel I wonder?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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26/06/2019 9:56 pm  

d: I suggest you forget me but follow the thread of my ideas here instead.

It's hard to forget you when you pop up so regularly with such robust language and funny logic.

Maybe contribute to the OP.

I'm not sure about this, but I've probably contributed all I have ("Aristocratic Communism").

Arguing about politics get emotive especially when we’re discussing anarchy.

Politics, with or without "anarchy," is emotionally engaging, regardless of what the topic is, who the players are, and what anyone (you, me, him, her) wants in the moment.


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dom
 dom
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27/06/2019 2:05 pm  

I think Ignant has left the thread and is presumably reading up the book on Crowley's political ideas.

I've made my points in this thread. No-one has really proposed how anarcho communal societies could work. They can work yes as I stated (pun unintended) in an isolated primitive Neolithic scenario. Who wants that?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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27/06/2019 3:07 pm  

experiment


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 Anonymous
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27/06/2019 3:16 pm  

US presidential candidate Marianne Williamson talked a bit about Marx's theories in a recent interview which also included some discussion about Materialism vs. Idealism.
https://twitter.com/marwilliamson/status/1143724591262720003
https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/bonus-the-marianne-williamson-interview

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzLqeDdBJ1Y/

Thread from the Chapo subreddit:


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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27/06/2019 3:20 pm  

You are correct that i have been reading the superb Pasi book, but also have seen little worth commenting on here. One (unsurprising) takeaway from Pasi is that one can find ample support in AC's work for anarchism, communism, monarchism/aristocracy, and illuminated theocracy.

Pasi's biggest contribution is to argue AC's work can be seen as having two major phases:

1) the rationalist "scientific illuminism"/A.'. A.'. period prior to about 1909-17 (this is the period from whence "Skeptical Thelema"/Los-ianity cherry-picks its basis), where the focus is on the individual as the "unit of analysis" and development, and

2) the subsequent anti-rationalist/theist "Prophet of Thelema"/OTO period after WW I, where the focus is on society as a whole as the "unit of analysis" and development.

If you'd bothered to do the reading you claimed you were going to do, you'd be aware that we have historical examples of "how anarcho communal societies could work": the Paris Commune (not exactly "an isolated primitive Neolithic" locale), Spain in the '30s, much of Kurdistan right now. There is also a voluminous theoretical literature, to which i provided pointers, and authors' names (Marx, Kropotkin, Stirner, Bakunin, Malatesta, Goldman, Berkman, and Bookchin); again you clearly haven't followed up on those.


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dom
 dom
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27/06/2019 5:43 pm  

Paris commune? Which one ie when? The steam age one or the pre-industrial revolution one?

Kurdistan? Tell us more.

Bakunin was around when we were still using steam power as was Marx. A lot has changed since. Armed insurrection could topple governments. Not now,they'd just use drones and any rising would be sorted out in half an hour. Poverty was common in Europe in Marx's day. Dickensian poverty that is. Now,not as common in the occidental world. Yes we have worker's movements to thank for that but western society evolved out of those flawed early stages of development. Fact is, most people were happy with what Regan and Thatcher did otherwise they wouldn't have kept voting for them. Are Bakunin et al really relevant now?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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27/06/2019 7:46 pm  

I'm not aware of another "Paris Commune" besides the 1871 one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune

Perhaps you are thinking of the 1848 worker's revolution?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution_of_1848

As to current events in Kurdistan, some links found by googling (you should try it sometime) "anarchist Kurdistan":

https://roarmag.org/essays/pkk-kurdish-struggle-autonomy/

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/43dmgm/the-most-feminist-revolution-the-world-has-ever-witnessed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rojava

As to the continued relevance of anarchist theory, i think the above 3 links speak to that adequately.

As to your contention that people keep voting for right-wing policies, so they must like them: i can't speak with any expertise as to whether that might be so in the UK, but this is certainly false in the US.

In the US, the Republican party has won the popular vote for President once (maybe) since 1988 (31 years). Trump got millions fewer votes than Clinton, who lost.

The anti-democratic structure of the US Senate means the Democratic "minority" represents many, many millions more people that the Republican "majority", because each state, regardless of population, gets two Senators, so that low-population rural states (all of which, except Vermont, Delaware, and Rhode Island, are rabidly conservative) are greatly over-represented. NYC, which shares 2 Senators with the rest of NY state, has more people than the nine lowest population states combined. The NYC borough of Brooklyn alone has a larger population than 15 states (just ahead of New Mexico, the 36th largest state- hi Shiva!).

The Democratic party now controls a majority of seats in the US House, but even when it was "in the minority" before the 2018 election, the Democratic "minority" represented millions more people than the Republican "majority". This is due to "gerrymandering"- strategic creation of election districts to enable minority control regardless of how people vote. The conservative majority on the US Supreme Court just said this is A-OK today, as they will about any other maneuver necessary to retain minority control over political power.

Thus, in elections for President, Senate, and the House of Representatives, the strong preference of US voters for the Democratic Party results in Republican control of all three, unless Democrats win overwhelming majorities, as they did in the 2018 House elections.


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dom
 dom
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29/06/2019 12:54 am  

Ok you think the US electoral system needs reforming. Some think the UK one needs reforming too, well, Liberals basically, proportional representation.

Getting back to these break-away regions in war-torn Syria. This is the sort of thing that Crowley described in Mexico in the chaos of World War One I presume.

There's actually an attempt by Maoist rebel-armies in India to break away from the government. Long term vicious war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naxalite–Maoist_insurgency

Hardly hear anything about it in the media.

To get back to the OP ie the title of the thread. Nietzsche has been adopted by the radical right as well as the radical left. I guess they same can be said about Thelema/Crolwey. It's a battle of wills. People who are doing their wills have natural inclinations and they want this or that type of economy e.g. some Thelemites totally resonate with these next two lectures... 1m45m they want yachts and seaside villas;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iShCXx_xZDQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gIxuOabGBE

It relates to Wilson's essay on 'who gets to eat the last pie'?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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29/06/2019 1:46 am  

@dom :

It relates to Wilson’s essay on ‘who gets to eat the last pie’?

Eh? Are sure you don't mean Crowley's essay on who gets to eat the last piece of apple (or was it orange)? And if not, do you mean Robert or Colin there? Show some exactitude, if you please...

(And to which the answer by the way has to be: "The greediest bastard without any manners")
W Joy


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Shiva
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29/06/2019 2:23 am  

jb: Robert or Colin there? Show some exactitude, if you please

Stick him with a pin. Make him become a pointer.

The greediest bastard without any manners.

Thuggery, not thaumaturgy. Kali Yuga at its best. If he's a skinny guy, he'll need a bodyguard/enforcer or an army. Maybe just a gun or dagger. Another reason to cast a really good magical sword/dagger/dirk; these cheap imitations look nice, but for pie/apple/orange/pear combat?


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Tiger
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29/06/2019 3:07 am  

" Hardly hear anything about it in the media. "
Who funds the media and how do they get their money ?


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Shiva
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29/06/2019 3:22 am  

d: ” Hardly hear anything about it in the media. ”
T: Who funds the media and how do they get their money ?

"Media" is a generic term. There are two divisions:

1. Exoteric (Mainstream Media): For everyone, one way or another. Often slanted or spun.

2. Esoteric: (Alternative New Media): For the few, by searching, who detect the slant and the spin.


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dom
 dom
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29/06/2019 9:46 am  

” Hardly hear anything about it in the media. ”
Who funds the media and how do they get their money ?

Congrats you understood my point.

@jbarter

Eh? Are sure you don’t mean Crowley’s essay on who gets to eat the last piece of apple (or was it orange)? And if not, do you mean Robert or Colin there? Show some exactitude, if you please…
(And to which the answer by the way has to be: “The greediest bastard without any manners”)
W Joy

Colin? Haha c'mon Colin was never so overanalytical about AC and Thelema. Show exactitude? Apologies for giving you the benefit of the doubt...… again.

Here's the R.A. Wilson essay ( next time try using a google search);
http://rawilsonfans.de/en/do-what-thou-wilt/

@shiva

So have I got this right you think that free market capitalism is only for "the greedy" (woolly term undefined) and only benefits "the greedy"? If so, what "benefits" are they? I guess Bruce Lee was "greedy" for fame......thank fuck eh?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Tiger
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29/06/2019 4:00 pm  

paper bytes propaganda taxation tithing middleman what ?


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 Anonymous
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Jamie J Barter
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29/06/2019 5:49 pm  

@dom :

Colin? Haha c’mon Colin was never so overanalytical about AC and Thelema.
How on earth is basically discussing the eating of pie 'overanalytical' about it/them? And have you actually read everything Colin Wilson/ RA Wilson has ever written (=a lot, not all of it readily available)? Also it was as much for the benefit of relative newbies who may not be so familiar with either Wilson (or the fact that there's more than one) that I made the request..

Show exactitude?
As usual, yes. For the umpteenth time of asking.

Here’s the R.A. Wilson essay ( next time try using a google search)
Next time try just providing the (source of the) reference in the first place. Preferably without trying to be a smarty-pants at the same time.

Apologies for giving you the benefit of the doubt…… again.
Yet again with the borderline condescending and snidey references then, dom? I have given up counting the number of times when I have given you the benefit of the doubt --- do you remember there was a time when everyone else on the forum was pissed off with you and calling you nothing more than a troll, and I stuck up for you saying you were just a harmless 'agitator' who liked to get things moving? *Thinks* Why did I bother....

@shiva :

Another reason to cast a really good magical sword/dagger/dirk; these cheap imitations look nice, but for pie/apple/orange/pear combat?
How about some 'pointers' (nb, not 'pointed sticks') in the following?
https://youtu.be/4JgbOkLdRaE

Z Joy


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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29/06/2019 6:02 pm  

Say, Mal, it seems you're using this thread to promote a particular political person (ppp). You've already highlighted her and given links. Now you're starting to bombard us with a campaign.

j: I have given up counting the number of times when I have given you the benefit of the doubt

I haven't. The number currently rests at 666.


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dom
 dom
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29/06/2019 6:10 pm  

@MAL

C'mon if you're going to load a youtube link at least say something about it...no one else is.

@jbarter

Yet again with the borderline condescending and snidey references then, dom?

Aha! People in glass houses (you) shouldn't throw stones and look at you as a kettle calling the pot black etc.

Anyway Jamie enough of this silly trivial banter what do you think of the Kurdistan break-away group who are selling their own oil.....and heroin might I add (according to that article provided by Ignant)? Anarchism in effect or just another wild, mad flash in the pan from that crazy war-torn Middle East?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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 Anonymous
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29/06/2019 6:27 pm  

Marianne is the Thelemic candidate.

It is fascinating that a spiritualist could become leader of the free world.
A spiritualist whose message is love.
This is something to follow.

It doesn't sound like you have much familiarity with the her spiritual/metaphysical side.
She might be known to some of us here. Back in the 90s I initially put the ACIM stuff and Oprah in a pending stack to go through for work. I had read so much channeled stuff at that point that I had skipped it all and her books and went to hermetic stuff and Crowley, coincidentally. In the last few months I've been following her campaign and looking into her message.
The links I've provided barely scratch the surface of Marianne Williamson.

I'll post just a couple more in depth vids and some directly relevant quotes with some Thelemic commentary that I've been pondering in one more post, maybe. Then let it rest unless someone wants to talk about it.

Cool?
If not, shame the forum doesn't have an ignore feature for Shiva.


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
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29/06/2019 6:44 pm  

mal- There is as much chance that Ms. Williamson will be the Democratic nominee for president as there is that my little dog Maud will get the nomination.

She has virtually zero popular support, and is clearly running to "build her brand"/increase name recognition, and sell books etc. She has no plans to actually get nominated.

It is of course true that the last B-list minor celeb who tried this stunt is currently "Leader Of The Free World". But does lightning strike twice?


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 Anonymous
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29/06/2019 7:10 pm  

What did you think of her Chapo interview @ignant666? Serious question, no guile. You're the established leftist expert in the thread and I was hoping for your opinion.
I didn't get the impression of promoting brand recognition(beyond the necessary campaign awareness) or sell books thing.
My thought in general on the interview is that it was quite good and she was thoughtful. Great interviewer, too. It was natural and unrehearsed and was well timed before her debate appearance. In an occult sense, it let her establish her candidacy in a deep rooting in the fertile loam of an internet meme factory before her fame exploded yesterday.
Can it carry through? Well see. She's gained some legit support with it all. It is the summer months. She's got decades of books. It's campaign season. It is coming up to July the 4th. Spend it with Marianne.
She's already qualified for one more debate with the benchmark she made in May for the end of July.
If she can make a solid vault in the debate from the great springboard she got from this latest debate and make a great landing(to use a sports metaphor) and with the nations eyes on her the country could bring her through to the next round. 130,000 supporters and 2% in three qualifying polls to meet DNC qualification in August. She can do that and more.
As for lightning...Slava Perunu!!


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Jamie J Barter
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29/06/2019 7:15 pm  

@dom :

Anyway Jamie enough of this silly trivial banter
Enough of it just so long as you get to have the last word, you mean? And after narrowing everything else down to the one thing that you actually want to talk about...

Aha! People in glass houses (you) shouldn’t throw stones and look at you as a kettle calling the pot black etc.
I never throw stones or call pots black (whatever) pre-emptively without justification --- check my record, as anyone can tell by ("check the guy's track record...")

what do you think of the Kurdistan break-away group who
I don't feel I know enough or strongly about this particular subject at present to warrant making a comment, and unlike some (not looking in any particular direction) try to avoid pontificating on matters I don't have an informed opinion or even a clue about. Go on: now make some comment about how much more informed therefore cleverer and implicitly superior and advanced you must be...

Woefully inadequate by comparison,
N Joy


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Tiger
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29/06/2019 7:17 pm  

At the lecture i staffed . It appeared.
Bill Kristol had all sorts of data to hypothesize that the trend in the future would be to vote people out of office; and that a company man would not be favored. So the company was looking to provide profiles in the mix for the people that would not appear to be a company man and prepare for the high turn over of non two term cycles.

I was impressed that MARIANNE was at least aware of this
https://www.marianne2020.com/issues/mass-incarceration

but not so much the little i’ve seen of her spiritual stuff

but like Ron Paul it’s just nice to see ithings being brought to public attention whether a candidate wins or not.


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 Anonymous
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29/06/2019 7:47 pm  

@Tiger
She's got some great policy ideas.
If I had to choose a single thing from her policy page I really like that's not on any other candidate page it's this bit under indigenous reconciliation:
"Protecting sacred sites and lands from sale, mining, or transfer without consultation with tribes."
https://www.marianne2020.com/issues/native-american-reconciliation

I'm still really new to her stuff but to recommend from my limited experience for getting a little deeper into her spiritual side I recommend getting a copy of Illuminata and reading from A Way In to the end of Part I. For a taste, the introduction mentions science and religion and the quote has a Hadit sense to it.

We are experiencing now an alteration of collective consciousness, centered not in government or science or religion per se. It is centered nowhere because it is present, at least potentially, everywhere. It is the rising up of our true divine nature, a reassertion of God in the consciousness of modern man.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 4053
29/06/2019 8:48 pm  

@mal

She’s got some great policy ideas

Here in the UK, mal, we're all rooting for Elizabeth Warren.


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 Anonymous
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29/06/2019 9:07 pm  

Warren's history with Native Americans gives some in Canada hesitation.
Indigenous nations cross the US/Can border making policy and history important to those interests on top of the other obvious close relationships between the nations.

General feeling by those that even talk about this stuff here is that Warren should stay in Senate. She'd be a great replacement for Schumer.
Not that she should drop out of the race, yet. I'd still root for her as president in any event if she gets the nom. Warren's my number 3 or 4 on any given day for the last few months.


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Tiger
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29/06/2019 9:12 pm  

indigenous reconciliation
nice

i got to staff this event she a gives a good breakdown
https://www.facebook.com/nbc10/videos/senator-elizabeth-warren-speaks-at-brown-university/715042538862282/

i guess we should get back to Politics in a Thelemic sense ?


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
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Posts: 4053
29/06/2019 9:45 pm  

@Tiger

i guess we should get back to Politics in a Thelemic sense ?

Yes, I agree. My remark was an off-hand comment for the edification of our resident rightie.

Personally, I think the maxim "every man and every woman is a star" lends itself to a collectivist interpretation, as outlined in a post of mine earier in the thread.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posts: 5028
29/06/2019 10:02 pm  

d: ... that crazy war-torn Middle East?

The "tearing up" started when the Israelites crossed the border and started killing the Philistines. It's still going on today. The Philistines have converted to Islam, and today their descendants are holed up in Gaza, from which hole they like to launch rockets.

  • Deuteronomist sources describe the "Five Lords of the Philistines"[e] as based in five city-states of the southwestern Levant: Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath, from Wadi Gaza in the south to the Yarqon River in the north. This description portrays them at one period of time as among the Kingdom of Israel's most dangerous enemies. - Wiki
  • The Crusades continued the conflict. What's the bottom-line today?

    1. The Israelites are still fighting the /philistines.
    2. Israel has also become a proxy state where western influences are still banging away in their Crusades.

    mal: Marianne is the Thelemic candidate.

    Oh. I missed the Thelema, the 93, the Do What Thou Wilt, the HGA, and the other emblem</ems> of "Thelema."

    It is fascinating that a spiritualist could become leader of the free world.

    Um, Spiritualists are not (necessarily) Thelemites.

    A spiritualist whose message is love.

    Oh, that olden dichotomy. Look, there are two factions in the current "new aeon/age."
    One proclaims LOVE, the other WILL. Thelemites are supposed to know that Love IS the Law, but it's UNDER WILL. Is she promoting WILL as the higher state ... from which Love issues due to right action?

    This is something to follow.

    For you. Maybe for others. You have now given enough information for us to contact the secret chiefs directly, and so we're on our own.

    ... shame the forum doesn’t have an ignore feature for Shiva.

    Haha. Don't you know the switch-off is in your brain?

    Can it carry through? Well see.

    We will see. Or we'll see. No problem with the invisible apostraphe, or free apostle. I sometimes re-read parts of my posts, and I make those kind of errors all over the map. Thats what happens when we don't proofreed [sic].

    jb: “check the guy’s track record…”

    Don't you mean "black record"?

    ms: ... we’re all rooting for Elizabeth Warren.

    "We" and "all" makes it sound like you are representing the entire United Kingdom. I suppose you mean, "Me and a lot of my similar-thinking friends"?

    ---------------

    I now see that this thread is becoming partisan, with various people taking sides. This is unbearable. It's too heavy to lift. Imagine, England is now meddling in US Elections, just like those rascally Russians. My tentative and continued participation in this thread has now become terminal. The "Ignore Shiva" switch has been thrown in the control room of the Lodge. Happy insulting and arguing - I'll see you on some other thread.


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     Anonymous
    Joined: 51 years ago
    Posts: 0
    29/06/2019 10:35 pm  

    The Book of Codes has a section in the 2nd chapter on political position and rank.

    718,2:6
    The educated shall be priests and Kings.

    718,2:8. Let the governor of each city be no lower in rank than Zelator; that is 2 = 9, and let him be commander over all his city’s armies, and director in chief over all his city’s temples of Art. For sooth, it is more comely if thou hast an Ipsissimus over every sector of thy nation, great or small, but the Adept shall suffice.

    718,2:9. To oversee the government of the county, let him be no lower in rank than Philosophus, and let the provincial governor be no lower than Adeptus Major. This calls for a gathering of my chosen ones, an education of the Kings, and the establishment of Thelema in all branches of national life.

    718,2:10. Masters of the Temple shall oversee the government of provinces; they shall be given their own collection of states to rule. Let all the Adepts heed the word of their Master, and let the Masters heed the word of the Magi, one of whom shall be King. Now let it be understood: the Kingdom shall be governed by the King alone. The governors and magistrates are the instruments of his Will. And, therefore, the Supreme and Heavenly Ruler must be initiated in the most complete sense of the Word. He must be Master of Samadhi, Adept in all branches of Magick and her twin sister Yoga. His position calls for intense wisdom. He must be very God of very God; in no wise let a dog take the throne.

    The earlier talk in the thread of the French Revolution provided a new way to look at another quote from Codes. Thanks.
    718,1:5
    Write unto the Kings of America! Most especially,we shall see the revolution here, for this Babalon shall be mistress of the world.

    It'll be interesting to see if the same personification of Liberty is part of a second enlightenment.


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    ignant666
    (@ignant666)
    Tangin
    Joined: 15 years ago
    Posts: 3139
    30/06/2019 12:11 am  

    i did not watch the Williamson interview. i did look at her website. It is all fluff. There is very little in the way of substantive policy proposals, and practically no details of policy plans, and a fair amount of nonsense (eg, the "food safety" section). This is not a serious candidate.

    Like most in the UK according to Michael Staley, I am a big Sen. Prof. Dr. Liz "Pocahontas" Warren fan; she has detailed, smart policy proposals for most of what needs fixing in the USA. I also like Sanders, Booker, and Castro, and would not be very unhappy with Harris, though her career as a prosecutor gives me some pause. Buttegeig is a neo-liberal menace, and a narcissist- the gay Bill Clinton; fortunately his odds are little better than Williamson's. Nonetheless, "Hold your nose and vote for the Democrat" is the most robust rule in American politics, and i would vote for him over Lord Tiny-Hands. But if i get my druthers, it'll be Warren/Castro for the Democratic ticket.

    Looking forward to 2028, when Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, my favorite current US pol, will finally be old enough to run (US presidents must be 35 or older according to the Constitution). She is brainy, beautiful, and very Bronx (meaning she takes no shit).

    Tiger: It is important to remember that another important and equally robust rule of American politics is that Bill Kristol is always wrong, about everything. His track record of being wrong is more than 30 years old now.


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     Anonymous
    Joined: 51 years ago
    Posts: 0
    30/06/2019 12:35 am  

    It's an audio podcast not a video. Marxist socialist oriented. Thought you might enjoy it. No worries, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

    Liz is the lady with plans which I think was something Michael was implying in giving a my post a good humoured ribbing. Maybe her and Marianne will share the stage at the next debate. I hope they like each other.

    A Williamson presidency with Warren leading a majority Senate and AOC leading a majority Congress would accomplish amazing things.
    Love is the law, love under will.


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    Tiger
    (@tiger)
    Member
    Joined: 13 years ago
    Posts: 1580
    30/06/2019 2:27 am  

    https://youtu.be/n2JISEATisI
    from the zeitgeist addendum movie
    i know its jiddu but


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    Tiger
    (@tiger)
    Member
    Joined: 13 years ago
    Posts: 1580
    30/06/2019 2:35 am  

    ZEITGEIST: ADDENDUM - TRAILER
    https://youtu.be/y8Ryxj5veE8

    Zeitgeist Addendum Movie
    https://youtu.be/EewGMBOB4Gg


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    ignant666
    (@ignant666)
    Tangin
    Joined: 15 years ago
    Posts: 3139
    01/07/2019 12:14 pm  

    A recent speech by Lon Milo Duqette, one of the few (c)OTO folks for whom i have much respect, on our topic:

    https://thelemicunion.com/liber-oz-fest-2018-address-lon-milo-duquette/

    His point is that one's politics are a matter of will and individuality, that there is no such thing as "Thelemic politics", and that those within the (c)OTO ought to value fraternal bonds more than political values.

    I mostly agree with the first two points. Fortunately for me, i am not a member of any orders, and owe no fraternal obligations to any right-wing nut-jobs with "unhealthy fixations on guns, addiction to power, or just old-fashion greed" (one wonders if these latter references are to anyone specific? <cough> James Wasserman <cough>)


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    dom
     dom
    (@dom)
    Member
    Joined: 5 years ago
    Posts: 2347
    01/07/2019 9:21 pm  

    His point is that one’s politics are a matter of will and individuality, that there is no such thing as “Thelemic politics”, and that those within the (c)OTO ought to value fraternal bonds more than political values.

    I said that about three times here and there in this thread already. Ballot boxes are (supposed to be ) a private affair (including votes on whether or not to take strike action. Used to be a 'show of hands' pre Maggie). I like that.

    https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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     Anonymous
    Joined: 51 years ago
    Posts: 0
    06/07/2019 1:41 am  

    His point is that one’s politics are a matter of will and individuality, that there is no such thing as “Thelemic politics”

    That point seems in conflict with the Thelemic ideal of each star in perfect orbit with other stars. It seems more natural that through individual discovery and the following of the true will it would create a synchronized politics as it operates on larger social scales from the familial, community,etc... to a national level. Creating conditions for a unified True Will of the People.

    In practical terms, we're conflicted beings pushed and pulled by all manner of forces. The constitutional monarchy model is working well in Canada and is partly how I interpret the quoted section from the Book of Codes at the top of the page. The Head of State being a figurehead to the materialist and the human link to all that is Holy to the religious(the Supreme and Heavenly Ruler).

    I disagree with the statement there is no such thing as Thelemic politics.


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    dom
     dom
    (@dom)
    Member
    Joined: 5 years ago
    Posts: 2347
    06/07/2019 3:13 pm  

    @mal

    I disagree with the statement there is no such thing as Thelemic politics.

    What is 'politics' anyway? The relevant dictionary definition would be "the activities associated with the governance of a country or area, especially the debate between parties having power." That said if my government declares war on some nation and I get drafted then yeah my external circumstances are affected but does that mean my progress in Jugorum in e.g. razoring my forearm every time I say, "but" shall be affected? No. What your error in thinking is (and the error of the OP) is to reduce everything to base materialism. Well Thelema has nothing with base materialism therefore there is no such thing as "Thelemic politics".

    In other words, Master Leary said, "If you want to argue politics then we are all going to have to get down on all fours". You with me? You need to have a thorough knowledge of Leary's theory of the eight brain circuits before you can grasp that.

    https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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    Tiger
    (@tiger)
    Member
    Joined: 13 years ago
    Posts: 1580
    06/07/2019 5:09 pm  

    “A crowned male figure, with imperial vestments and regalia.
    Seated upon the throne whose capitals are the heads of the Himalayan wild ram,
    since Aries means a Ram.
    At his feet, couchant, is the Lamb and Flag, to confirm this attribution on the lower plane; for the ram, by nature, is a wild and courageous animal, lonely in lonely places, whereas when tamed and made to lie down in green pastures, nothing is left but the docile, cowardly, gregarious and succulent beast. This is the theory of government.
    ATU IV The Son of the Morning, chief among the Mighty”
    https://nofaithinthehumanrace.com/777/index.php?deck=crowley&key=15&show777=1

    Bee and the Fleur-de-lys
    bring forth the spring
    Þorn-īeg

    on all fours diggin


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