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Lucky Hoodoo: Orders & Initiations


 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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Hello everyone.

I've been reading this forum for some time now and, finally, decided to join and participate. Seeing how many of you here are truly knowledgeable about esoteric orders and practices of a typhonian nature, and believing it will be OK to post this here, I want to ask you about something of importance to me, that has been bothering me for sometime: how can one "get started" on the Lucky Hoodoo/Gnose Voudon current, in terms of practice and initiations?

Yes, I now there are some good books out there — we have the VGW, the Voudon Gnosis, the Monastery of the Seven Rays courses... —, but I also know that direct initiations are necessary to actually walk on the path they describe, or even understand them completely. But how can one do so today? The web-pages pertaining to La Couleuvre Noire, Technicians of the Sacred etc. don't exist any more and I don't know what happened to them, to where they've moved. We have, of course, the S.V.G., but they say "[they] are not a society interested in educating Neophytes but define ourselves as a vehicle for the further magical education". So this is what I'm asking, how can one get started? By reading and practising the above mentioned material, even with the limitations of the self-study? What can you say about it?

I'm Brazilian and I live on Brazil. There are some cults here, we have the Candomblé and some Macumbas; nevertheless, nothing I had ever found seemed so fitting to myself as the practices described by Bertiaux and Beth. My "people" come from the graveyard, being a graveyard the place where I first actually saw something outside the normal realm of conscience — it was said to me, afterwards, that I saw it there so I could know where they came from. The concept of time travel have fascinated me since before I could barely understand what "time" could mean; and I had some experiences that had to do with both things, time travel and graveyards. Nothing had to me, on occult matters, the same appeal, the same feeling, that books like Beth's Voudon Gnosis had. But again, I really don't know how to put all of it together in something more than scattered practices, but in a true path of development and initiation.

I hope you can give me some insights and advices on this matter. I will really welcome the information and suggestions that you can share, and the same for indications of good books.

Thank you very much.

P.S.: I've read other topics here about Bertiaux, S.G.V. etc., but I believed it would be better to create a new one, since I wanted to question something more specific than about the theory in general. And, since I'm here, I do apologize for the bad quality of my English, but I hope I've made myself comprehensible.


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LeMo
 LeMo
(@lemo)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 28
 

Olá, Rogerio.

Seja bem vindo ao Lashtal !! Contudo, eu pessoalmente não acredito que você vá encontrar aqui exatamente o que está buscando.

Entendo perfeitamente sua questão, mas infelizmente não há muita alternativa para a dificuldade que você coloca. Para ser pessoalmente iniciado em La Couleuvre Noire você precisaria provavelmente viajar para os EUA e, antes disso, organizar a viagem e a iniciação em si, primeiramente contatando-os através do site oficial.

É importante mencionar que o que você está colocando se refere a dois assuntos e duas tradições distintas. Minha esposa trabalha há anos com Hoodoo, apesar de não ter havido qualquer iniciação pessoalmente, pois o Hoodoo não é uma religião ou uma organização que requeira esse tipo de processo. Os únicos que eu recomendaria com relação a Hoodoo, especificamente, seriam os organizadores da Lucky Mojo Curio Co., que ministram cursos à distância e existem vários livros muitos bons de autoria da Catherine Yronwode. Stephanie Rosebird também é uma praticante da tradição, muito talentosa, e também tem livros publicados.

Já para a Voudon Gnosis, a única opção seria mesmo a organização herdeira do Bertaiux, que você mesmo citou: La Couleuvre Noire. De qualquer forma, com toda a sinceridade, eu li críticas muito ferrenhas com relação ao Bertiaux e recomendaria que você investigasse bem antes de se comprometer com qualquer coisa.

No Lashtal e em Thelema, precisamente, a Voudon Gnosis somente se faz presente no trabalho do Kenneth Grant, que pode ser considerado o autor que praticamente "lançou" o Michael Bertiaux. Essa Gnosis está presente na tradição Typhoniana.

Para maiores informações sobre a corrente Typhoniana, recomendo contato com Michael Staley, responsável pela O.T., ou através dos membros da O.T. Cláudio Carvalho e Lília Palmeira, brasileiros, organizadores do blog http://kennethgrant.blogspot.com.br/.

Bom, vamos nos falando, espero que você encontre o que procura com essas orientações.

Abraço!

Leo.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Welcome to Lashtal Rogerio,

With all due respect to Leo, it is not correct to say that you have to be physically initiated into the Voudon Gnostic current. Initiation very often happens on an astral level and contact with the current through working with it is a form of an initiation in itself. You do have the advantage of a head start in terms of being Brazilian as traditions such as Umbanda, Candomblé & Spiritism fit in very well with Voudon Gnosticism and a knowledge of these, especially a working knowledge of them, is something that you will find incredibly helpful. Voudon Gnosticism brings together a number of strands to become truly syncretic and yet in harmony within itself.

As you have the VGW and want to find a way into the current, I would recommend working with the Lucky Hoodoo lessons. I can't remember whether it was David Beth in 'Voudon Gnosis' or Michael Bertiaux elsewhere that the whole of the Voudon Gnostic system can be learnt through working with the Lucky Hoodoo lessons. There is a lot of truth in this, and although they might seem a bit simplistic or inappropriate, the important thing to understand is that they should be adapted to some aim that you feel comfortable with, as opposed to using them with an aim of winning the lottery or controlling somebody else's mind. You could just experiment with one or two of the lessons and see what happens.

You mention being interested in time travel. You could try working with Crowley's Liber ThIShARB, which uses straightforward techniques to go back into your past. In theory, you could adapt this to travel in all sorts of dimensional space in accordance with your will.

The Voudon Gnostic system is a vast and complex one, but a mixture of knowledge and practice will serve you very well.

I hope this helps, and good luck on your journey.

Shaun


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Hamal
(@hamal)
Member
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 547
 

I dont know this tradition well enough to comment on it, but I can speak from my experience of seeking initiation on other paths/traditions. As well as practical steps to extend your contact with others of a like-mind, like for example joining this forum, you might wish to explore a variety of other routes to open yourself up to the possibility of meeting the right people. If you are moving in the right circles its much easier to meet the right people. So many of us tend to lock ourselves away like hermits at times. You might also consider using magic to aid your search for others with whom to work or seek initiation with (having opened up lines of possible communication first). In some circles the term lighthouse is used to describe the process of attracting other like-minded practitioners.

93
Hamal


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LeMo
 LeMo
(@lemo)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 28
 
"LiberShaun" wrote:
With all due respect to Leo, it is not correct to say that you have to be physically initiated into the Voudon Gnostic current.

Dear LiberShaun,

With a due respect to your post, I never mentioned "you have to be physically initiated into the Voudon Gnostic current". I don't know if you are well versed in Portuguese, but sincerely it seems you are not.

I mentioned that if Rogerio wants to be initiated personally, which seems to be the focus of his post, the only alternative for this would be for him travelling to USA, meaning that in Brazil there are no Couleuvre Noire authorized lodges or masters.

I also suggested, by his interest in Typhonian current, that he seeks contact with Mr. Staley and other members of Ordo Typhonis, so he gets better oriented.

I personally don't care nor believe any kind of physical initiation, so I would never recommend such a thing. But it seems Rogerio regards it important.

Best,

Leo.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

You're right to point out the error of my ways Leo, as I was obviously thinking of Rogerio's statement as opposed to yours, his being "I also know that direct initiations are necessary to actually walk on the path they describe, or even understand them completely." This is incorrect, it isn't necessary, and so seeking direct initiation or personal initiation through travelling to America seems an unnecessary expense and burden, especially if - as seems to be the case - Rogerio isn't even sure whether this is the path he wishes to follow.
Apologies for the mix-up, it's very late here and I probably need more coffee!


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LeMo
 LeMo
(@lemo)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 28
 
"LiberShaun" wrote:
Apologies for the mix-up, it's very late here and I probably need more coffee!

Please, there is no need to apologize! 😀

I just felt the need to clarify the mix-up, but maybe it was my mistake writing in Portuguese in the first place. I wanted to advise Rogerio in his (and my own) mother language, to make it easier and faster.

Don't drink coffee, drink wine! 😉

Best,

Leo.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Rogerio,
Hamal was correct about moving in the right circles.  You've found the correct place to ask your question!  I suggest that you send a PM to Kyle Fite (username: kidneyhawk). 

May the Loa bless you on your path,
N.O.X


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  

Hello again, everyone,

I'm indeed in the at the very beginning of any serious study of these matters; if some of my post was confusing, this happened more because of a lack of direction from my part than my poor expressive capabilities using English – and, like what LiberShaun said, some coffee would work wonders here. Let me answer each of you.

LeMo: Thank your for your answer. I can ready well in English, but I have much to improve on my writing. You're right: Hoodoo does interest me, and it is on this topic's scope as well, but, nevertheless, my focus here would really be the Gnosis Voudon. Besides being two different traditions, I guess they share a lot, wouldn't you say? The VGW starts with Lucky Hoodoo, for instance. But I'm really at the beginning of the study, like I said, and I apologize for my confusion. I will also change the title of this topic.

About La Couleuvre Noire, I'm quite certain of having reading directly from their site that the initiations on the order required physical presence of the parts involved, since it would require the direct activation of the Points-Chauds in the body of the initiate; of course I won't say this is the only kind of possible initiation, but I came to think it is for LCN and, from what I've read until now, at least it seems that many practices would require such a physical "unlocking of power zones". I can be really wrong about this, yes, but if I'm not, I don't know where this necessity starts: whether it's there since the beginning or only becomes a must for advanced practices. Anyways, I don't know if LCN still exists as such, as a new order or how could I contact them in both cases: the site doesn't exist anymore. The same for the Monastery of the Seven Rays... most their material, according to some, only hints on things that would require guidance [from a initiate]; but where could I find the Monastery or that guidance?

About Kenneth Grant, I still know little of his writings, but I'm working to change this. Also, I have followed some of the Michael Staley's posts here on Lashtal and I've read some of his texts. I'm still researching about the Typhonian O.T.O., not only here. I really don't take lightly your advice about doing some good investigation before committing myself to something, be it Bertiaux material or anything else, both for my own sake and for the other part's. Ah, and thanks indicating the blog, I didn't know it.

Thank you very much.

LiberShaun: Having been born on Brazil really give me some advantages in some areas of my life. This is not Haiti – yet – but living here implies experiencing some ugly things that are only beginning to grow elsewhere but that already developed here; like other countries of third world, we learn to resist to things that would truly scare people from other countries. But on a brighter side, we have indeed many beautiful (and also practical) religious expressions.

And yes, I believe I can use the Lucky Hoodoo lessons to improve myself spiritually and that it would be a good start. And I recognize that, if the practice itself could be the required initiation, the spirits would also guide me to further on the path, even if that meant finding someone or some order. I'll experiment.

About Liber ThIShARB,  I think using it to going "somewhere" that not the past would bear some limitations. Being the practitioner the center of the experience, it would deal only with his memoirs of his past – even to the ones from preview incarnations. Stretching the method so it could bring him somewhere else, I guess it would still have the practitioner as the significant: traveling to his possible futures or alternative pasts and presents. Maybe he could break from the current of his life and possibilities, but, I think, it would be a hard thing to do and it would take some good deal of energy – and, well, it could be very hard to discern the experience from mere fancy. It seems to me that the structure presented by the Voudon Gnosis is better suited to inter-dimensional/inter-stellar/time travel – of course, there must be other ways, but this is not the kind of thing we seldom find. What do you think?

You have indeed helped me very much. Thank you!

Hamal: I don't have much to comment, but you gave me some good advice. And by the way, I really like the concept of recursion; in this case, using magick so I can improve my practice of magick itself.

Thank you.

N.O.X.: I've read some of your contributions here on Lashtal; you really seemed to me as a balanced person, and I really liked your comments. Tomorrow I'll contact Kyle Fite.

Thank you for your answer and I hope the Loa bless your path as well.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"Rogerio" wrote:
About La Couleuvre Noire, I'm quite certain of having reading directly from their site that the initiations on the order required physical presence of the parts involved, since it would require the direct activation of the Points-Chauds in the body of the initiate; of course I won't say this is the only kind of possible initiation, but I came to think it is for LCN and, from what I've read until now, at least it seems that many practices would require such a physical "unlocking of power zones". I can be really wrong about this, yes, but if I'm not, I don't know where this necessity starts: whether it's there since the beginning or only becomes a must for advanced practices. Anyways, I don't know if LCN still exists as such, as a new order or how could I contact them in both cases: the site doesn't exist anymore. The same for the Monastery of the Seven Rays... most their material, according to some, only hints on things that would require guidance [from a initiate]; but where could I find the Monastery or that guidance?

As Kyle Fite has posted, in the Michael Bertiaux thread I think, he is the contact for the LCN and OTOA.  If you experience any problems trying to contact him, I may be able to help.

"Rogerio" wrote:
N.O.X.: I've read some of your contributions here on Lashtal; you really seemed to me as a balanced person, and I really liked your comments. Tomorrow I'll contact Kyle Fite.

Thank you for your answer and I hope the Loa bless your path as well.

You're making me blush!  Thank you for the kind words!  You've made my day!  ;D

I hope that I've been of some help, and wish you well along the Way,
N.O.X


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

If you haven't already read the following books, they will be of interest to you:

VUDU CARTOGRAPHY: The Autobiography of Michael Houdeaux

Cosmic Meditation by Michael Bertiaux

ATUA: Voices from La Société Voudon Gnostique

Voudon Gnosis by David Beth (2nd ed.)

Kyle Fites articles on Hoodoo in Qliphoth Journal


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michaelclarke18
(@michaelclarke18)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1264
 

Hmm nice set of titles there.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

I just reread David Beth´s first essay on Gnostic Isolation in ATUA where he stresses the importance of physical initiation, transmissions and oral teachings in Voudon Gnosis. I have also seen he emphasize this in other places and that without it one will only touch upon a Surface level (the last part my interpretation)

@Rogerio. A pity that you didn´t have the calling towards this gnosis some years earlier since Beth used to live in Brazil.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Rogerio,
Hopefully, you've been in touch with Kyle by now.  I let him know about this thread.  I was thinking perhaps you could also email or PM David Beth (username: TauMelchizedek) and maybe he could point you in the direction of the circles he moved in while in Brazil.  Then you could, possibly, attain physical initiation/transmission into the Gnostic Voudon Tradition, and also have other fellow practitioners to Work with.

I just realized that all of the books that I mentioned are out of print, but with the funds and some determination they can still be obtained.  The Gnositic Voudon Tradition is, apparently, much more popular than I realized.  The books related to it always go out of print pretty quickly.  That's good news for practitioners wanting to do group Workings and such, as there seems to be a bunch of people out there into this stuff.

Good luck with your Hoodooo,
N.O.X


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
Topic starter  
"2109" wrote:
@Rogerio. A pity that you didn´t have the calling towards this gnosis some years earlier since Beth used to live in Brazil.

Maybe it is, but I don't know; I guess I wouldn't be ready for answering that calling had it came some years ago. Things have this nifty manner of coming on the right time in my life, or not coming at all. Likewise that saying, the one that has Exu has everything.

"N.O.X" wrote:
Rogerio,
Hopefully, you've been in touch with Kyle by now.  I let him know about this thread.  I was thinking perhaps you could also email or PM David Beth (username: TauMelchizedek) and maybe he could point you in the direction of the circles he moved in while in Brazil.  Then you could, possibly, attain physical initiation/transmission into the Gnostic Voudon Tradition, and also have other fellow practitioners to Work with.

I just realized that all of the books that I mentioned are out of print, but with the funds and some determination they can still be obtained.  The Gnositic Voudon Tradition is, apparently, much more popular than I realized.  The books related to it always go out of print pretty quickly.  That's good news for practitioners wanting to do group Workings and such, as there seems to be a bunch of people out there into this stuff.

Good luck with your Hoodooo,
N.O.X

N.O.X.,

Brazilian internet has its own mysteries, so (or "but") I was able to contact Kyle some minutes ago. I searched TauMelchizedek's and discovered he ceased posting here some years ago, so I didn't even try to contact him, but I'll see if I can do it soon.

About the books, Beth's is surely the easier one to get here on Brazil since it was published here. About the others (and many others...), it will take some time and some work, but this won't be a problem: I have much work to do and much to improve in myself and in my life, I'll be getting the books when they are needed, while I follow and seek the path. I'm known here giving up my weight in exchange for books and, at the same time Brazil is not a readers' dwelling place any more, and being hard to import what I need, now and then you can still find something like Titus Burckhardt's Alchemy on some used books store; this and the benefit of knowing Mario Ferreira dos Santos' language and being able to find his books.

Good luck with your practices as well!

Best regards,

Rogerio


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michaelclarke18
(@michaelclarke18)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1264
 

You should be able to contact David, via his publishing company:-

http://www.theionpublishing.com/

Best regards,


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Just went to the Theion publishing site; the "about" section is awesome I recommend reading it


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Ariock
(@ariock)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 108
 

Rogerio,

With the exception of Qliphoth, all of these titles can be purchased from JD Holmes ( http://www.jdholmes.com) and ATUA can come direct from David's publishing house ( http://www.theionpublishing.com). As mentioned earlier, Kyle is the contact for the OTOA/LCN and they have a presence on Facebook for information and contact. I would add to N.O.X.'s list (and highly recommend) the Monastery of the Seven Rays coursework.

"N.O.X" wrote:
If you haven't already read the following books, they will be of interest to you:

VUDU CARTOGRAPHY: The Autobiography of Michael Houdeaux

Cosmic Meditation by Michael Bertiaux

ATUA: Voices from La Société Voudon Gnostique

Voudon Gnosis by David Beth (2nd ed.)

Kyle Fites articles on Hoodoo in Qliphoth Journal


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Ariock,
There's your book (I forget the title) that we should add to the list.  I'd like to also recommend Ve-Ve by Milo Rigaud.


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LeMo
 LeMo
(@lemo)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 28
 
"N.O.X" wrote:
I'd like to also recommend Ve-Ve by Milo Rigaud.

Very good reminder, N.O.X

I am very fond of Rigaud, love his works. My favorite is "Secrets of Voodoo".


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

In my post above think I have made an error.  The book might have been by Hagen von Tulien.  Sorry, I got confused.  I think it was a Grimoire that had to do with Hoodoo.  I dunno, really, as I didn't even find out about it until it was out of print, and so I haven't gotten a copy.  Hagen, Ariock, or anyone else who knows the title of this book, please do chime in!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

N.O.X, I believe it was "Lucky Hoodoo Grimoire" - by Hagen von Tulien, and limited to 10 copies if I recall  so I don't imagine it will be obtainable now that its out of print. I too stumbled unto it too late, it looked like a stunning volume.

However I'd suggest anyone interested follow Hagen either on facebook or the link below to stay up to date with his latest art and private printings as gems will no doubt surface in the future.

http://www.behance.net/Hagen_von_Tulien


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