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kidneyhawk
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SOMEWHAT related to our exhaustive (exhausting?) discussion of Crowley (character vs. work), I'd like to ask what folks think about Mr. Michael Bertiaux. I know VERY little about the man-only familiar from Kenneth Grant's Cults Of The Shadow. I did read about him on the Sword Of Horus website (which seems to blast the hellout of EVERYONE involved in any kind of Thelemic Organization). The way Bertiaux was presented (with facsimile of his letter) made him come off as very unbalanced and ego-driven, to say the least. But what really annoyed me was that along with the jabs at WHO Bertiaux is, the author of that website siad his art was evidence of his violent and fucked-up personality. I was not so impressed with the paintings reproduced in Grant's "Cults." That is UNTIL I found them in full glorious color on a website-then I was like "Wow-this man really CAN paint some serious shit!"

As should be evident, I like abstraction in art. Beckmann, Klee, AR Penck, Picasso-to name just a FEW. I often express great admiration for art that the average eye sees as "unworthy" due to level of abstraction. I have to say, I really liked how Bertiaux "illustrated" his letter on that website-even if he did feel the need to write that his group is all about "fucking, sucking and sodomizing and destroying the OTO" (paraphrased...) His letter really did carry kind of post-modern Blakean approach to the whole words and text mingling...

Anyway, what do others think about the man? I saw there's a new book coming out called "Ontological Graffitti." Sounds intriguing...

Kyle


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 Anonymous
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"kidneyhawk" wrote:
The way Bertiaux was presented (with facsimile of his letter) made him come off as very unbalanced and ego-driven, to say the least.

I can't imagine a more balanced and less ego-driven man than Michael Bertiaux - he is a pleasure to deal with, both professionally and personally. We will be issuing a number of his illustrated texts over the next few years, but Ontological Graffitti will take some time in preparation due to the size of the work.

bazelek


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kidneyhawk
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I meant no offense towards the man by my comments...my only info on Mr.B lies in Grant's book and then what I've read on the Sword of Horus website. Any opinions on THAT particular commentary?

It is good to hear that Bertiaux is an allright sort of fellow! And I'll submit an email of interest to the Book Site. Bertiaux in full color is GREAT and it would be wonderful to see more of the simple drawing/line work!!!

Kyle


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Anonymous
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I wouldn't put much stock in ANYTHING that you find on the "Sword of Horus" website. That person has got to be the most bitter, negative person in existence as far as Thelema is concerned. But then again, I think he's the only "true" Thelemite around today... 😉 LMAO


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 Anonymous
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I have to concur with Monsieur bazelek on his very sound evaluation of Meister Bertiaux. Personally I have known him for years and apart from obvious artistic and evocative talents, he is also a first rate philosopher and a very charming gentleman.

As to the letter to Kelly here comes a little anecdote: Bertiaux was once entertaining visitors from his extended gnostic framework, british people actually, and they were having some drinks when Bertiaux decided to draft an answer to this Kelly guy whose letter he had received (that day, I believe). The letter by Kelly was so much full of nonsense and written in a way he (Bertiaux) could not consider interesting in a serious way, so he decided to pen a funny and sarcastic answer. And so he did with a very sharp sense of humour and straight up irony. The BEST thing about this is that despite the in your face irony and sarcasm, Kelly took this letter dead serious?! I nearly tripped with laughter when I saw that letter the first time and read Kelly's accusing and lecturing comments - that guy ridiculed himself even more, it was painful to watch- but funny. I do look at that letter even today after many years and am so thankful Kelly has it up on his site.

And now my friends, I need to sign off as 'I have to do a few people in' 🙂

Tau M.


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kidneyhawk
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LOL-and thank you for digging up this old thread and vouching for the Voodoo King!

(Things you don't hear on the Sword of Horus Website!)

93

Kyle


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 Anonymous
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His art reminds me somewhat of Art Brut/Outsider Art, very raw!


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 Anonymous
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His art is inspiring because it's not that A.O. Spare type of draughtmanship that may intimidate the non-artistially inclined (especially in terms of drawing one's perceptions of godforms, deities, visions). "Outsider Art" is a good way to put it stylistically, but there's nothing outsider about the knowledge portrayed in the sketches themselves.
-R.Pike-


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kidneyhawk
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Well put, Gentlemen! Methinks a small Cult of Bertiaux Magico-Aestheticians may be on the Rise! Mr. Bertiaux's art strikes me as very unique in the arena of "Occult Art" in that it comes through with such visual HEAVINESS and WEIGHT. Spare (who is second to NONE and takes his rightful place in that Realm where Mega Artists can stand only as Equals-I believe Blake called it "Golgonooza") treats of the Metaphysical with a very light touch, its movement and life traced with his masterful LINE...Mr. Bertiaux, on the other hand, evokes his forms in terms of the intensely TACTILE...but this is not to say it is without movement! I first saw his work in color on the Caduecus Books "Occult Art Gallery" and was FLOORED by the COLOR! One cannot possibly appreciate the full effect of this in black and white for the color creates both visual contrast (adding a sophistication to the "simplicity of his forms) and movement (what Spare gets at with his line-its not just the "daubs" of paint-ala Van Gogh or perhaps Munch-but the colors overlaying in those "daubs." Hence, when I first saw this outside of Mr. Grant's work, I was compelled to admire (and then look back with a sour frown at Mr. Sword of Horus, who deserves a slap!).

The Fulgur website also has a color reproduction of "Goddess of the Norman Witches with her Id-Familiar" (reproduced in B & W in Cults of the Shadow." If you've got this book, compare the reproduction with that on the Fulgur Site.

Perhaps this is a STRETCH but is there anyone here on Lashtal who would consider uploading any Bertiaux Art to the gallery?

93

Kyle


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 Anonymous
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That's a great idea, Kyle! In my opinion, Michael Bertiaux's art is of interest to Thelemites, and is at the very least Thelema-related. I don't know if it's within the scope of lashtal.com, but that's not for me to decide. That said, his artwork would coexist well with Crowley's art, and the A.O. Spare work on this site as well. They're all brothers in some way.
-R.Pike-


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 Anonymous
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Was my pleasure to share some story 😆 What Bertiaux's art is concerned - indeed it is very compelling and evocative. Bertiaux is actually a very humble person and not at all interested in any kind of PR or fame - he is a true mystic and magician and unlike so many who go into the field to get some name and recognition - thus his art has been widely overlooked, except for those who have worked with him. Actually Bertiaux did have some formal lessons in painting - and he practiced at icon-painting during his college years. You can still see this in many of his icon-style, christ-style works. On the other hand one can easily recognize the influence of the Haitian and African magical culture on his works. Very 'primitive' and evocative paintings. While Bertiaux may not be the best painter in regards to technical skills, his art however is strangely and strongly evocative and has been used to express occult and mystical ideas only. In fact his art is part of his occulture and many paintings have been used magical ritualistic workings of a mediumistic and spiritist kind. Bertiaux's foremost skill is to create paintings and images that speak directly to the deepes layers of the unconscious and are totally evocative in a magical way. Like much in Bertiaux's system, they are often not 'nice' in a profane sense of the word, but his art 'does you in' in a more direct way than that of any other occult artist, maybe because his motivation is exclusively magical and mystical.
Of course this is only a subjective feeling 🙂
In regards to Thelema: Bertiaux does not think in such categories like Thelemite etc. Some of his ideas may co-incide with Thelema and indeed he has thelemic initiations. But his system has gone beyond these kinds of definitions and Bertiaux would not consider himself a 'Thelemite' in the orthodox sense of the word. Initiates through all ages have always done their true will, before and after Crowley. However, of course Bertiaux has also drawn inspiration and ideas from 'Thelemites' or 'ex-Thelemites'.

Regards,

Tau M


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 Anonymous
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"kidneyhawk" wrote:
The Fulgur website also has a color reproduction of "Goddess of the Norman Witches with her Id-Familiar" (reproduced in B & W in Cults of the Shadow." If you've got this book, compare the reproduction with that on the Fulgur Site.

Perhaps this is a STRETCH but is there anyone here on Lashtal who would consider uploading any Bertiaux Art to the gallery?

93

Kyle

We will shortly be re-launching the Fulgur site and the new design will include extensive galleries for Bertiaux, Spare and other luminaries...

bazelek


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algoul
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hi tau and baselek
Michael stresses the fact that the purpose of his painting is to use them in a magical context more than in an artistic context;

I was by myself intrigued by his and I must admit that when I saw them live I was very surprised by the wonderful use of the colors, which is very impressive

regards
al


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kidneyhawk
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when I saw them live

I like how you phrased the encounter:

Not "when I saw the works themselves" but "when I saw them live."

I think that's testimony enough to the

magical context

The Black Snake is Moving.

🙂

Kyle


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 Anonymous
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Dear Algoul and All,

I agree with you fully and this is precisely what I tried to say in my previous post. Bertiaux does not paint for the sheer beauty of painting but it is an expression of his occultism.

All good wishes,

Tau M

"TauMelchizedek" wrote:
his art however is strangely and strongly evocative and has been used to express occult and mystical ideas only. In fact his art is part of his occulture and many paintings have been used magical ritualistic workings of a mediumistic and spiritist kind. Bertiaux's foremost skill is to create paintings and images that speak directly to the deepes layers of the unconscious and are totally evocative in a magical way. Like much in Bertiaux's system, they are often not 'nice' in a profane sense of the word, but his art 'does you in' in a more direct way than that of any other occult artist, maybe because his motivation is exclusively magical and mystical.

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 Anonymous
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Yes, I can only concur. Rev. Bertiaux is a very nice and humble man and a true gentleman. And his art is so beautiful with its vibrating colors. Does anyone know when Fulgur is planing to release "Ontological Graffitti". And if its Fulgur ore some other publicing that will release "Voudon Gnostic Workbook" next year?

Fraternally,
Johnny


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kidneyhawk
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Johnny-93! (A New Bruce Springsteen Song!)

You know, Since I put up my first post on this thread, I've had numerous communication from people, both public and private, regarding Mr. Bertiaux and each and every one of them has said the same thing about his character.

We should ALL be so lucky!

I'm really really hoping that some of the upcoming published work includes sketchwork by Mr. Bertiaux as well as his paintings. I recently fell in love with the art of one A R Penck, some of his paintings reminding me VERY much of Bertiaux. His style is that raw-DADA feel which almost immediately moves into a hieroglyphic pictographic language expressing a Magickal energy (see the Atavistic Lunch thread for Kzwleh's great words on Dada as a highly Spiritual Work). Bertiaux's art I must regard as neither "painting" nor "magick" exclusively but something that fuses and functions as BOTH without needing to be "split" up. Primitive in an "exalted" sense...

Is there anyone here on Lashtal who might possibly be in possession (no pun intended!) of any of his art and willing to upload anything to the Gallery? It seems that there are more than several admirers lurking about who would receive such with gratitude.

Regarding Ontological Graffitti, I'm sure Fulgur will give the update(s). I'm also hopeful that Fulgur or another publisher might consider a smaller softbound volume in B & W, perhaps, spotlighting sketches?

93!

Kyle


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 Anonymous
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I believe the expanded edition of ''Voudon Gnostic Workbook' will be released by Red Wheel Weiser.


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kidneyhawk
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Do we know when?


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 Anonymous
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There is no definitive release date but you can already pre-order the paperback from Amazon.com.


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kidneyhawk
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Very cool-! Thanks for the Info! 😀


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Both Amazon.com and Amazon.co.uk have the VGW as coming out in July 2007. Although I wouldnt hold my breath. I pre-ordered "Magico-Medical Means of treating Ghost Induced illness in Ancient Mesopotamia" in 2003 and it only arrived in May this year. The best books never go to plan


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Frater_HPK
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"ErichZann333" wrote:
I believe the expanded edition of ''Voudon Gnostic Workbook' will be released by Red Wheel Weiser.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Expanded? As far as I know VGW was compiled from Monastery of the Seven Rays lections (first four years omitted). I bought my copy from Occultique shop in England in eighties. In my opinion it is "hard to understanding" book without first four years of Monastery of the Seven Rays /OTOA lessons, additional articles from Instrumentum and Societe magazines, and someone who can give some additional explanation. Maybe Tau Melchizedek will not agree with me. If I am wrong I apologize. In every sense , expansions can give some clarification of the text.
Not related with this I have a copy of his manuscript named Aiwass and Lam. If someone need this I can scan and send, or I can give these scans to the lashtal to put this on the site. Tau Melchizedek, is this OK? I ask because I don't want that violate anyone author rights .

By the way, Michael Bertiaux visited Parliament of the World's Religions in
Chicago, 13 years ago. Rev Olivia Robertson descrribed him as "a nice man and a painter". Now, I doubt he ever mentioned gnosticism, Voudoun, OTOA etc.

I have a question. What is the M<onastery of the Seven Rasy really? I found story about certain George Hunt Williamson. Is Monastery he visited in the sixties same as Monastery of the Seven Rays mentioned above?

Love is the law, love under Will.

B.


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 Anonymous
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HI.
Try http://neoluciferianchurch.org/ber-int.pdf
There are several pages under Voudun Gnostic work book, Michael Bertiaux etc.
The Monastery of the Seven Rays was a correspondence course I have never heard of the material being available as a book.
Best Wishes Robert.


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 Anonymous
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Apparently Bertiaux was fairly surprised at the VGW's publication. It was just cobbled together from a number of different sources in the end, mainly course texts. I understand he doesnt quite view it as 'a book' or even 'a workbook' as its fairly unrepresentative of his outlook having been thrown together with no real structure.

Bertiaux is, by all accounts, a talented man and someone with many valuable things to say. The only thing that detracts from my opinion of Bertiaux is the correspondence courses themselves - the tapes, the cheap photocopied materials - its all a bit huckster.


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 Anonymous
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Thank you for posting that interview Robert, interesting read.
There is a picture of Michael Bertiaux in it and behind him a front cover design to a forthcoming book.
Could this be 'Ontological Graffity'?


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Frater_HPK
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"rabrazier" wrote:
HI.
Try http://neoluciferianchurch.org/ber-int.pdf
There are several pages under Voudun Gnostic work book, Michael Bertiaux etc.
The Monastery of the Seven Rays was a correspondence course I have never heard of the material being available as a book.
Best Wishes Robert.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

That is what I heard. These lessons are not part of first four years, and someone then connected by mail with Courtney Willis, if my memory is good, told me that these lessons are one for 5-8 years of Monastery course. In every sense, I still think they are not easy for understanding.

Love is the law, love under will.


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kidneyhawk
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And a Thank You from me, as well, Robert...I had never read that interview and it was a sheer delight to do so-! In the most simple and straightforward language, Mr. Bertiaux expresses the essence of art-magick.

I was reminded of Wisdom of S'lba 2:39 "S'lba is beyond definition, but She is not beyond expression in linear form. All Art is her Yantra."

Bertiaux is a clear living example of how brush, paint and compulsively collected carboard becomes a tangible evocation of the ineffable, living within the forms which mask it.

I'm placing my order for Ontological Graffitti NOW.

Glorious!

93

Kyle


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 Anonymous
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"Johnny" wrote:
Does anyone know when Fulgur is planing to release "Ontological Graffitti".

OG is going to be a big book, sort of a cross between the new edition of Hidden Lore and the old Voudon Gnostic Workbook. I can't say when we will be releasing the title, but perhaps early 2008 is likely?

In the interim we will be releasing a number of smaller works, in the usual Fulgur quality, starting with Cosmic Meditation in early 2007. Signed and standard limited editions will be available. Details will be announced on the new Fulgur website (coming soon) in due course.

bazelek


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 Anonymous
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"ErichZann333" wrote:
I believe the expanded edition of ''Voudon Gnostic Workbook' will be released by Red Wheel Weiser.

It indeed should be released in summer next year.


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 Anonymous
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<Expanded? As far as I know VGW was compiled from Monastery of the <Seven Rays lections (first four years omitted).

not quite so.

<I bought my copy from Occultique shop in England in eighties. In my <opinion it is "hard to understanding" book without first four years of <Monastery of the Seven Rays /OTOA lessons, additional articles from <Instrumentum and Societe magazines, and someone who can give some <additional explanation. Maybe Tau Melchizedek will not agree with me.

I agree absolutely with you on this point and it is a very important fact and actually one of the reasons we never had a problem seeling the VGW or indeed have the courses available to the semi-public. Because to really go into deeply and have all the benefits from the spirits and the inner orders, one needs to have an inner guidance.

<If I am wrong I apologize. In every sense , expansions can give some <clarification of the text.
<Not related with this I have a copy of his manuscript named Aiwass and <Lam. If someone need this I can scan and send, or I can give these <scans to the lashtal to put this on the site. Tau Melchizedek, is this OK? I <ask because I don't want that violate anyone author rights .

well, I am not too anal with these things - but I would prefer you send it to the people who want it privately. I am not sure if Bertiaux would approve this to be on an open site.

<By the way, Michael Bertiaux visited Parliament of the World's Religions <in
<Chicago, 13 years ago. Rev Olivia Robertson descrribed him as "a nice <man and a painter". Now, I doubt he ever mentioned gnosticism, <Voudoun, OTOA etc.

In fact Olivia was at his appartment with some other attendants of the Parliament and had not a few cocktails 🙂

<I have a question. What is the M<onastery of the Seven Rasy really? I <found story about certain George Hunt Williamson. Is Monastery he <visited in the sixties same as Monastery of the Seven Rays mentioned <above?

The Monastery used to be a group seperate from OTOA, and it functioned as a kind of outer order of the OTOA. In the 70ies there were people being students of the first courses of the monastery who were quite unaware of the OTOA. We changed the system slightly and so today the monastery serves as the teaching vehicle for the basic OTOA training.

Agape

Tau M

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 Anonymous
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"loscult" wrote:
Apparently Bertiaux was fairly surprised at the VGW's publication. It was just cobbled together from a number of different sources in the end, mainly course texts. I understand he doesnt quite view it as 'a book' or even 'a workbook' as its fairly unrepresentative of his outlook having been thrown together with no real structure.

Bertiaux is, by all accounts, a talented man and someone with many valuable things to say. The only thing that detracts from my opinion of Bertiaux is the correspondence courses themselves - the tapes, the cheap photocopied materials - its all a bit huckster.

Bertiaux was not at all surprised at the VGW - he had a contract with Magical Childe. Another ancedote for you guys :-): Bertiaux was supposed to give a 3 days seminar in New York at Magical Childe bookstore on the LCN system. For the one or other reason this seminar never took place but Bertiaux had shown some of the prepared lectures and papers to Herman and he liked it so much that he proposed to Bertiaux to publish the lectures in a book-form, so people would be able to see them. So Bertiaux expanded and re-wrote a bit and had it published as the VGW.

And regarding the cheap photocopied materials etc. I must say that in my opinion it speaks FOR Bertiaux as it clearly shows that he does not at all care for 'fame' and pounding the drum. Unlike so many other occultists so called, he has never shopped around to have his writings published. ON the contrary. He is so creative and has written so many things and he has done so simply for his students and orders - he never really cared if parts of that would be available outside to boost his person. He is a true mystic and occultists, maybe like Spare, who does his work for the sake of the work, not giving a damn if anyone recognizes him as anything. Bertiaux could have had the courses and many other things published by a professional publ. house, I am sure, if he had pursued it. But he simply did not care as long as the important material was available to the orders.
Mind that more than half of what Bertiaux has written has never appeared anywhere outside the orders and even inside the orders many materials are only given to people according to the nature of their work.

Agape,

Tau M

P.S. that said, I must agree though that I am very excited and thankful for Robert Ansell to have approached Bertiaux and agreed to work on this great forthcoming project as this will give us all much to wonder about.


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 Anonymous
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"Frater_HPK" wrote:
"rabrazier" wrote:
HI.
Try http://neoluciferianchurch.org/ber-int.pdf
There are several pages under Voudun Gnostic work book, Michael Bertiaux etc.
The Monastery of the Seven Rays was a correspondence course I have never heard of the material being available as a book.
Best Wishes Robert.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

That is what I heard. These lessons are not part of first four years, and someone then connected by mail with Courtney Willis, if my memory is good, told me that these lessons are one for 5-8 years of Monastery course. In every sense, I still think they are not easy for understanding.

Love is the law, love under will.

which materials are you referring to? The VGW? They are not from Course 5-8. These courses are about different things.

Agape

Tau M


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 Anonymous
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Dear bazelek

That was the best news I heard in years. I can´t expresse the delight that fulgur is going to release the Ontological Graffitti and some of Rev. Bertiaux smaller works. It´s about time that Michael works becomes more available to a larger audience. Great news! Viva la Fulgur! =-D


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 Anonymous
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"ErichZann333" wrote:
Thank you for posting that interview Robert, interesting read.
There is a picture of Michael Bertiaux in it and behind him a front cover design to a forthcoming book.
Could this be 'Ontological Graffity'?

Dear ErichZann333
The front-cover design that is seen in the pictures with the interview with Robert; can be seen on the book "Ontological I". And it´s a foreign edition of Michael Bertiaux book "Lucky Hoodoo".

Fraternally,
Mr. Jakobsson


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Frater_HPK
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"TauMelchizedek" wrote:

which materials are you referring to? The VGW? They are not from Course 5-8. These courses are about different things.

Agape

Tau M

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

My mistake then. Thank you for the clariffication.

Love is the law, love under will.

B.


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kidneyhawk
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Mind that more than half of what Bertiaux has written has never appeared anywhere outside the orders and even inside the orders many materials are only given to people according to the nature of their work.

It seems as if Mr. Bertiaux has done something quite brilliant and magickal with regards to his material, artistic-written and otherwise. Because so much seems to have been hand-written, privately distributed, made in very limited editions (inclu. photocopies!) and sent out into the world, it will doubtless resurface in very unique places at very unique times, more or less according to the whim of the "spirits." Although he may not care for anything like fame or fortune, I think there is a great joy in knowing that one's energy, vision and work has gone out to beget "magickal children" who will also express what he referred to in that interview as the "positive side of the positive/negative."

Perhaps what we have in Mr. Bertiaux's "scattered" art-magick is an off-set to mere "collectorism" and a scenario fit for the Treasure Hunters of the Spirit, where one's heart is weighed in the balance, as opposed to a bag of coins.

This is NOT to say that a beautiful published work by Bertiaux is at odds with his "method." He is absolutely overdue for such a format. But he clearly has lived a life where he's broken down ALL the barriers. Again, the interview where he talks about EVERY manifestation of art as having the power to bring the energy through (including mass produced posters!).

I am not at all versed in things Voodoo, but it has not mattered-like that Interview indicated-even Voodoo is a manifestion of something "Beyond" which it expresses, as do other routes. Something which S'lba says can take linear form through the Yantra of Art.

Without pomp, "blinds," or anything other than straight-talk, that little Interview (again, thanks for digging it up, Robert! 😀 ) expresses so much about the Heart of Art and the Heart of Life. It was a joy to read and now I'm going to print it out (my first "book" by Michael Bertiaux!-and I may just bind it up in CARDBOARD! 😆 )

Appreciation also to everyone posting on this thread-this, too, is a delight! In fact, maybe I'll print IT out as an "appendix!"

WILL/AGAPE ❗

Kyle


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 Anonymous
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Hi!
A couple of other sites worth looking at are http://www.timestation-z.com/valentinianHome.asp
and http://www.techniciansofthesacred.com
Perhaps someone could fill in some information about the links to Encausse and is there a link between Bertiaux and the EGA which teaches the ideas of Frater Achad?
Best Wishes Robert.


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 Anonymous
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"rabrazier" wrote:
Hi!
A couple of other sites worth looking at are http://www.timestation-z.com/valentinianHome.asp
and http://www.techniciansofthesacred.com
Perhaps someone could fill in some information about the links to Encausse and is there a link between Bertiaux and the EGA which teaches the ideas of Frater Achad?
Best Wishes Robert.

To add another site which has the stuff in more languages than english: http://otoa-lcn.org/index.htm

Some of the links to Encausse can be seen on the history sections. There are some more indirect and direct links. Robert, which EGA are you referring to? The Ecclesia Gnostica Apostolica? I do not remember them teaching Achad's stuff. They come from the french Gnostics.
We do have some lineages and magical transmissions from people who had directly descended from Achad.

Agape

Tau M


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 Anonymous
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Hi!
I was thinking of the Ecclesia Gnostica Alba in Canada. Since Achad was made head of the O.T.O. for life by Reuss they do not recognize Crowley as having the authority to expell Achad from the Order.
They seem to be strongest in Canada.
Best Wishes Robert.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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"rabrazier" wrote:
Hi!
I was thinking of the Ecclesia Gnostica Alba in Canada. Since Achad was made head of the O.T.O. for life by Reuss they do not recognize Crowley as having the authority to expell Achad from the Order.
They seem to be strongest in Canada.
Best Wishes Robert.

Hye Robert,

well, I do not know this EGA in Canada and have never heard of them. The only EGAlba I know is that of Zivorad Slavinski in what was Yugoslavia. And they have little to do with Achad as far as I know.

'best

Tau M


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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Tau M,
do you see Bertiaux's 'Lucky Hoodoo' as a self-contained system? I'm aware many of the early IOT intelligentsia speak of it very highly - publishing errors aside. Given that Bertiaux covers an obscene amount of ground in his work, is this text seen to be preliminary, or, as suggested an independent system?
Cheers J.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

It is both actually. Lucky Hoodoo can be seen as a preliminary work before embarking on the inner and more complicated works of the LCN. This it was incl as the first part of the VGW. However, Lucky Hoodoo gives access to a powerful spiritist system of its own. Lucky Hoodoo is just the door and a manual of how to deal with these hoodoo spirits.
However, as is the case with most of our writings, one can only get so far in the understanding and application of the voudon gnostic system without being attached to the orders and masters directly. Our system rests upon the Aflatus and a powerful system of initiation and occult transmission without which one cannot access much of the spirit pool and power sources - this is very much in sync with the afro-atlantean and related ways of esoteric work and thus we never had a problem publishing publicly many of our writings like the VGW and the Courses as inspiration and triggers for others. The inner layers however only open up after one has been connected to the 'electricity circuit' via a direct link to the masters and the spirits bonded to the current.

Agape,

Tau M

"Hriliu9" wrote:
Tau M,
do you see Bertiaux's 'Lucky Hoodoo' as a self-contained system? I'm aware many of the early IOT intelligentsia speak of it very highly - publishing errors aside. Given that Bertiaux covers an obscene amount of ground in his work, is this text seen to be preliminary, or, as suggested an independent system?
Cheers J.

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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Tau M,
would you be prepared to expand on the afro-atlantean sources of Bertiaux's work? the nature of the spirits and such. Also, according to Grant, a good deal of Bertiaux's LCN material is said to be of a highly practical nature. Is this type of focus - and please correct if I'm mistaken - inherent to the system or a more modern development? Magick post-Crowley tends to be interpreted in an almost purley mystical/religious sense, Bertiaux, in contrast, appears to developed a more global focus. Am I correct?
Cheers J.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Hriliu,

I'd love to expand longer but I am preparing a trip so unfortunately I must be brief. In regards to the Afro-Atlantean idea, I advise you to look up Lucky Hoodoo if you have a copy, as there are some indications. Grant is right to assign a highly practical approach to LCN and in fact OTOA (Grant mixes them together sometimes). This focus has always been the center of LCN work in the past and now as well. While the LCN type work may be more obviously practical, the OTOA type work is so as well, although one must understand some basics first which then must be turned into a practical approach by every individual member. Much of the OTOA type work provides a needed basis for the more specialized LCN courses. Many parts of LCN work demands special initiations and admission by spirits and guardians of the cults - by nature they are not for everyone and it is quite impossible to work the VGW thoroughly for ex. without a proper education in the voudon gnostic current(which incl. the Aflatus and and direct spiritual link with the sanctuary and the spirit-pools unique to the system)

Agape

Tau M

"Hriliu9" wrote:
Tau M,
would you be prepared to expand on the afro-atlantean sources of Bertiaux's work? the nature of the spirits and such. Also, according to Grant, a good deal of Bertiaux's LCN material is said to be of a highly practical nature. Is this type of focus - and please correct if I'm mistaken - inherent to the system or a more modern development? Magick post-Crowley tends to be interpreted in an almost purley mystical/religious sense, Bertiaux, in contrast, appears to developed a more global focus. Am I correct?
Cheers J.

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algoul
(@algoul)
Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 61
 

Dear ErichZann333
The front-cover design that is seen in the pictures with the interview with Robert; can be seen on the book "Ontological I". And it´s a foreign edition of Michael Bertiaux book "Lucky Hoodoo".
Fraternally,
Mr. Jakobsson

I guess it is the cover of the italian edition of Ontologia I, Lucky Hoodoo, which I made in 2004
regards
🙂
algoul


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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For all us (aspiring) Voudon Gnostics, look what appeared on Treadwells - maybe someone can post the new Treadwells lecture listing on the "Home Page" here. Many nice seminars as usually. Forgive my english,
In the Gnosis,

S

11 January 2007 (Thursday)
Voudon Gnosis of Michael Bertiaux
A Talk by David Beth
£5
7.15 for 7.30pm start

This talk enters the exciting but often confusing world of Michael Bertiaux (b. 1935), the enigmatic occultist, thinker and artist who is most famed as the author of The Voudon Gnostic Workbook. Bertiaux’s Voudon Gnostic system is a syncretic voodoo grounded in Esoteric Haitian voudon and shaped by various occult systems from Crowley to sorcery to esoteric continental freemasonry. He is the head of a number of inter-related magical orders including the Ecclesia Gnostica Spiritualis, a church tradition which claims an apostolic succession.

Tonight’s speaker is almost uniquely qualified to unravel the threads of the Voudon Gnostic work and speak experientially from an insider’s perspective. David Beth (Tau Melchizedek) is the Sovereign Grand Master of the OTOA and LCN and a Gnostic patriarch. He has been practising esoteric disciplines for many years and is a close friend and confidant of Bertiaux. David is also a university-educated historian born and raised in Africa, and has lived in Europe and the USA.

The talk will outline the various orders and elucidate some of the key concepts in Voudon Gnosis, including “the conferements”, “point chauds”, sexual magic, occult art and the rites of initiation. Many false assumptions regarding the Voudon Gnostic work will be dispelled, and more than a few surprises will be revealed. It follows on from the talk given in early 2006 by Emir Sahilovic.

Basic information about Bertiaux and his work can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bertiaux
Nevill Drury interview: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/8522/bertiaux.html


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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Hye S,

I will surely try to make it worth while and I am quite sure it's going to be a lot of fun. Looking forward to seeing you there and having some drinks after,

Agape,

Tau M


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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Tau M,
would you be prepared to comment on the use of magical machines with regards to Bertiaux's work? Grant makes some enthusiastic yet obscure references to them in his 'Cults of the Shadow'. Conversely, Bertiaux gives a concrete example in 'Lucky Hoodoo' on how to create a simple diagramatic 'machine' for wealth magic workings. Can it be assumed this technique could be applied to separate goals? There appears to be an underlying complexity (subtlety may be more correct) that I may be missing. If so, what is the logic that informs the creation of the 'machine'?
Cheers J.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

Hye there J.,

I could make some comments 🙂 What do you mean by 'applied to seperate goals'? Magical machines are a very complex and important issue within our orders. The whole 3rd year monastery course for ex. deals with this issue - esoteric engineering. We use mental machines as well as physical machines based on esoteric radionics and gnostic energies. There are very complex mind-machines and simple ones like the diagrams or cubes. Other machines may look like radionic instruments. They can be used for a huge variety of things.

Agape

Tau M

"Hriliu9" wrote:
Tau M,
would you be prepared to comment on the use of magical machines with regards to Bertiaux's work? Grant makes some enthusiastic yet obscure references to them in his 'Cults of the Shadow'. Conversely, Bertiaux gives a concrete example in 'Lucky Hoodoo' on how to create a simple diagramatic 'machine' for wealth magic workings. Can it be assumed this technique could be applied to separate goals? There appears to be an underlying complexity (subtlety may be more correct) that I may be missing. If so, what is the logic that informs the creation of the 'machine'?
Cheers J.

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