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Anonymous
 Anonymous
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27/09/2011 6:51 am  

Its pretty obvious that some of the people on here know some of the people on here . The past is full of curses, slander, and attempts on others happiness. Those jealous of others success and err. . money are fools because they probably couldnt handle the problems that come with them for the individual focused on. I hope people get their revenge if God so grants it in heavens justice. May a woman from the shadows be the lighting way ! Curving serpently deep to the gross, hooked, pendulous proboscis; the thick, flabby, moist lips; the patient stupid eyes, and timid, hunted gait of the bad type of David Barge living in Tucker, Georgia in his inherited parents basement. Anyone need more details ?


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michaelclarke18
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27/09/2011 9:03 am  

Its pretty obvious that some of the people on here know some of the people on here . The past is full of curses, slander, and attempts on others happiness.

Welcome to humanity. It's seems to b a typical feature that it aims so high, but usually ends up in the gutter.


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pad631
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11/04/2012 2:06 am  

1)  State of gnosis is purely sexual state.

First of all, what's up whit  M.Bertiaux today?
And secondly, in what ever sense a gnosis is purely sex state. Maybe a orgasmic state? And even that is only near by to that, not the same thing.
I think that this is not a true statement, and maybe someone has gave a some sort of puzzle or
a exercise thinking to whom is reading that.
93
and sorry for restarting an old topic.


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einDoppelganger
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11/04/2012 5:19 am  
"pad631" wrote:
First of all, what's up whit  M.Bertiaux today?

Recently retired from his post as a social worker, still living in Chicago. He has released two new books in the past few years and I believe there is another  forthcoming  from Fulgur.

And secondly, in what ever sense a gnosis is purely sex state. Maybe a orgasmic state? And even that is only near by to that, not the same thing.
I think that this is not a true statement, and maybe someone has gave a some sort of puzzle or
a exercise thinking to whom is reading that.


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pad631
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11/04/2012 6:43 am  

Hi,
I am making many grammatical mistakes.
I have read a whole 16 points in that post in page 5.
Still , that explanation is quite vague.
But anyway , will not be harmful to read and think about it.


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einDoppelganger
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11/04/2012 6:46 am  

Its OK, you should activate your Pony Chaud. The gnosis is experiential and cannot be distilled though language alone.


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Ariock
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11/04/2012 6:56 pm  
"pad631" wrote:
First of all, what's up whit  M.Bertiaux today?

Ontological Graffiti should be out this year from Fulgur. It will be a large book at around 23 chapters, and filled with his artwork. Other titles will follow. 


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pad631
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12/04/2012 4:06 am  

you should activate your Pony Chaud

What is really Pony Chaud. I hope it's not some internal joke, or I not  need to know French language.

I have not read many books, maybe I am missing something.

And thanks for info on mr M.Bertiaux

93


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einDoppelganger
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12/04/2012 4:35 am  

I tend not to share the inner workings of these matters but I will offer this. The Pony Chaud are a series of power points linked to the petite-aetheric-equestrian stream of consciousness transmitted in La Sorcellerie de Mon Petit Poney . They are characterized by liminal states that represent the various sorceries available to initiates in the pastel magicks. At this very moment, in a secret location in the antipodes, a highly specialized group of adepts are exploring miniature-magickal spheres of equine physics. Trans-communication between the pony chaud creates an illuminated hierarchy in the initiate of P.C. sorcery. This influx of intensely charged rainbow essence courses through the body of the candidate and ultimately results in the radiant gnosis of Twilight Sparkle. This technology is to be approached with the utmost caution and understanding as the powers available in this primordial conduit have shattered unworthy vessels.


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Azidonis
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12/04/2012 9:55 am  
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
I tend not to share the inner workings of these matters but I will offer this. The Pony Chaud are a series of power points linked to the petite-aetheric-equestrian stream of consciousness transmitted in La Sorcellerie de Mon Petit Poney . They are characterized by liminal states that represent the various sorceries available to initiates in the pastel magicks. At this very moment, in a secret location in the antipodes, a highly specialized group of adepts are exploring miniature-magickal spheres of equine physics. Trans-communication between the pony chaud creates an illuminated hierarchy in the initiate of P.C. sorcery. This influx of intensely charged rainbow essence courses through the body of the candidate and ultimately results in the radiant gnosis of Twilight Sparkle. This technology is to be approached with the utmost caution and understanding as the powers available in this primordial conduit have shattered unworthy vessels.

Oh, great. The epidemic is spreading to lashtal now.


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amadan-De
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12/04/2012 1:27 pm  

pad631 - eD is 'playing' with you  ::)
I suggest that to even the score you direct any future questions to him in your native language and demand that he only answers using the same..

PS. I agree entirely with you that gnosis is not limited to being "purely (a) sexual state" and had no trouble understanding your comment.  Confusingly, these days 'gnosis' seems to have become another word that is used with a wide range of different meanings.


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Azidonis
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12/04/2012 1:31 pm  
"amadan-De" wrote:
Confusingly, these days 'gnosis' seems to have become another word that is used with a wide range of different meanings.

Why do you suppose it is that way?


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amadan-De
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12/04/2012 1:38 pm  

lol
I blame Chaos Magick...


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einDoppelganger
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12/04/2012 1:47 pm  

Its become a buzzword which can be dropped into any string of nonsense to give it the flavor of something pertinent, obscure, and perhaps worth deciphering. Much "Occult" writing has managed to become a pastiche of itself. It is either painfully purple prose or tired dry rehashing of Jungian analysis. I still maintain you can find more Magick in the books filed outside the occult section than in it. This is obviously a lesson embraced by Bertiaux, Grant, David Beth and others. All of these authors derive much from literary sources outside the "occult mainstream."

These voices often color the author's language. This is particularly apparent to me in the confluence of highbrow/lowbrow pulp stylings of M Bertiaux. He often masks the sublime in language which is at turns florid and other times deceptively banal (e.g "shadow stuff") .

Anyway, I think what we are seeing is a whole generation of authors who look to the voices of their predecessors and try and mimic the tone while lacking the content.

Who knows, maybe I'm just being too dismissive. Après nous, le déluge, and all...

Oh, and don't underestimate the power of  La Sorcellerie de Mon Petit Poney....


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amadan-De
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12/04/2012 2:15 pm  
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
Its become a buzzword which can be dropped into any string of nonsense to give it the flavor of something pertinent, obscure, and perhaps worth deciphering. Much "Occult" writing has managed to become a pastiche of itself. It is either painfully purple prose or tired dry rehashing of Jungian analysis. I still maintain you can find more Magick in the books filed outside the occult section than in it. This is obviously a lesson embraced by Bertiaux, Grant, David Beth and others. All of these authors derive much from literary sources outside the "occult mainstream."

According to this page the concept of "the gnostic state, also known as gnosis" was introduced by Mr P. Carroll....
I'd maintain that one can (and should) find Magick anywhere.  Looking only where someone else tells you it is is needlessly limiting.
"There is nobody (or nothing) you can't learn something (however small) from."

"einDoppelganger" wrote:
These voices often color the author's language. This is particularly apparent to me in the confluence of highbrow/lowbrow pulp stylings of M Bertiaux. He often masks the sublime in language which is at turns florid and other times deceptively banal (e.g "shadow stuff") .

So something that could also be described as "either painfully purple prose or tired dry rehashing of Jungian (archetypes)" ? 🙂

"einDoppelganger" wrote:
Oh, and don't underestimate the power of  La Sorcellerie de Mon Petit Poney....

Trying hard not to overestimate it based on its omnipresence in certain internet-based communities...I'll see how it's doing in a year or ten before bending the knee though. (YGMV*)

*Your Gnosis May Vary

edit No I've stopped trying to keep up with your edits, this post relates to version 3.0 (or 4.0?) of yours /edit


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einDoppelganger
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12/04/2012 2:30 pm  

Can you really attribute "gnosis" to PJ Carrol??? I see the Wiki but I can't imagine that the idea really originated there. Perhaps his coinage of "the gnostic state" but the idea of gnosis certainly predates the CM crowd.

So something that could also be described as "either painfully purple prose or tired dry rehashing of Jungian (archetypes)" ? 🙂

Well, I think of this "pulp" style as being indicative of Bertiaux's brand of esoteric writing. I think he forged an original voice with this fusion. Its far superior to similar styles found in a variety of the new "dark magick books [sup:1r5306ol]TM[/sup:1r5306ol]" Thats what I am calling out - the tendency to find voices appropriated and terminology adopted with little of value to add to the mix. Bertiaux manages to blend everything from Kardec to Fritz Leiber creating an original approach.

edit No I've stopped trying to keep up with your edits, this post relates to version 3.0 (or 4.0?) of yours /edit

Yep, I never can commit till the timer runs out. Also, I always seem to want to add something and i hate double posts.

OMG see, I couldn't resist editing *again* I 'spose you are right, the "willy nilly" attribution of the word probably did originate with Carrol and co.
I do think there is something to be said for it's entrance into early 21st century pop-occultism as a buzzword alongside "talasmanic" "endpapers" and "slipcase".  😉


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Azidonis
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12/04/2012 5:44 pm  
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
Can you really attribute "gnosis" to PJ Carrol??? I see the Wiki but I can't imagine that the idea really originated there. Perhaps his coinage of "the gnostic state" but the idea of gnosis certainly predates the CM crowd.

Yes. It looks like he just colored some peanut butter and got his name attached to it. But peanut butter itself existed long before Carrol.


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amadan-De
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12/04/2012 7:32 pm  
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
Can you really attribute "gnosis" to PJ Carrol??? I see the Wiki but I can't imagine that the idea really originated there. Perhaps his coinage of "the gnostic state" but the idea of gnosis certainly predates the CM crowd.

My point exactly.  Funniest bit is that if you click the link on 'gnosis' in that Wiki about Chaos magic it takes you to its Wiki page which i) discusses it's use in pre-Christian Hellenic philosophy before going on to Judaeo-Christian usage all pre-CM and ii) does not mention P Carroll at all and only has a link to Chaos magic in the 'see also' section.

"einDoppelganger" wrote:
I do think there is something to be said for it's entrance into early 21st century pop-occultism as a buzzword alongside "talasmanic" "endpapers" and "slipcase".  😉

I think it's a shame that the 'buzzword' use is effectively obscuring a useful concept*, your other examples are much less open to misinterpretation/misuse/general confusion.
When I first read some of Mr Carroll's work in the 80s without having been told in advance how he was using the term I was simply left thinking "what-the-hell is he wittering about?".

*Though I suppose this could be seen as a return to a genuinely occult level of meaning below/beside the now quite open pop-culture marketing of magic and mysticism I'd see that as a retrograde step.

"New!! [glow=red,2,300]Coloured peanut butter[/glow] - in eight exciting vibrational colours! - unlike anything ever before, really!"
Good call, Az.


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pad631
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13/04/2012 2:54 am  

pad631 - eD is 'playing' with you  ::)
I suggest that to even the score you direct any future questions to him in your native language and demand that he only answers using the same..

PS. I agree entirely with you that gnosis is not limited to being "purely (a) sexual state" and had no trouble understanding your comment.  Confusingly, these days 'gnosis' seems to have become another word that is used with a wide range of different meanings.

^amadan-De
It seems we have some mutual positions about gnosis.Or maybe some experiences.
And it is  quite normal.
I stubbornly believe in some things I have learned many years ago, and that was not not from books.
But why not to take in consideration some thoughts , at least theoretical, about that.
And expand the knowledge, and maybe in some future work, get it in experience,as insight
or maybe direct as gnosis about very same gnosis 🙂

In other things, I'm not too competitive, or similar. I'm satisfied whit answers I have got.
Maybe sometimes it burst from me 🙂 , but really not often.
I think I had what i needed to, whit this. And thanks to all.

I have respect to M.Bertiaux, as I beleive many others have. In my case, it is not that I am close to him in any way. But from other sources that I believe in.


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AdoniaZanoni
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24/04/2012 12:39 am  
"AdoniaZanoni" wrote:
After reading this post below by Frater Barrabbas encounter and 'initiation' with Bertiaux, I really do not know what to say. Criticisms I faced is people who are into occultism are gullible, victims of charlatans, escapist of reality, and weak minded. After reading this I plan to reflect on those criticisms.

http://fraterbarrabbas.blogspot.com/2011/04/remembering-michael-bertiaux.html

I will continue to read Michael Bertiaux’s work and try to decipher his messy handwriting when time permits, even though I am not a practitioner or follower of Voudon. I always felt there are parallels between Western Ceremonial Magic and Voodoo; this is why I read his works. For example, the way the Brazilian faith of Quimbanda has sigils comparable to the Grimoire Verum as mentioned in Jake Stratton’s True Grimoire. Also Franz Bardon mentions methods in his Practice of Magical Evocations on spirits possessing parts of your body along with non-diabolical pacts. The ‘story’ of Peter Warlock and the Abramelin square another example.

http://fraterbarrabbas.blogspot.com/2012/04/very-busy-spring.html

I wanted to point out Frater Barrabbas has written new comments on this older blog articles about Michael Bertiaux. No comments on my behalf.


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pad631
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24/04/2012 9:37 am  

This figure frater B, or whatever he calls himself.He obviously does not expect any response from the other side, that is why he writes so freely.
If he would have expected such answers he would never have written such things.
He himself admitted to have fear of the magical powers.
I think he has mental problems, and that is the reason that gives him the rights to write this way.

I am writing this in my free will and the beliefs!

pad631


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 Anonymous
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10/07/2012 4:25 am  

Hey since the OTOA-LCN site is down does anyone know of any other resources on getting the diagrams for the VGW? My computer crashed and all that stuff was lost!


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kidneyhawk
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10/07/2012 3:12 pm  

Uranus,

I am the present contact for OTOA-LCN and will be happy to help get you the files with the missings diagrams. Please pm me with your contact info!

Kyle 


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 Anonymous
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10/07/2012 5:21 pm  

Kyle... you should already have my private contact information... 😛 Jason C. LOL


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k4n3
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18/06/2014 1:31 pm  
"TauMelchizedek" wrote:
I have to concur with Monsieur bazelek on his very sound evaluation of Meister Bertiaux. Personally I have known him for years and apart from obvious artistic and evocative talents, he is also a first rate philosopher and a very charming gentleman.

As to the letter to Kelly here comes a little anecdote: Bertiaux was once entertaining visitors from his extended gnostic framework, british people actually, and they were having some drinks when Bertiaux decided to draft an answer to this Kelly guy whose letter he had received (that day, I believe). The letter by Kelly was so much full of nonsense and written in a way he (Bertiaux) could not consider interesting in a serious way, so he decided to pen a funny and sarcastic answer. And so he did with a very sharp sense of humour and straight up irony. The BEST thing about this is that despite the in your face irony and sarcasm, Kelly took this letter dead serious?! I nearly tripped with laughter when I saw that letter the first time and read Kelly's accusing and lecturing comments - that guy ridiculed himself even more, it was painful to watch- but funny. I do look at that letter even today after many years and am so thankful Kelly has it up on his site.

And now my friends, I need to sign off as 'I have to do a few people in' 🙂

Tau M.

I was browsing this forum and found out this thread.
I know the original post is almost 8 years old, but decided to necropost here to voice my point of view on the matter.

The above quoted post from TauMelchizedek sounds like a weak excuse for completely irrational and unbalanced reply from Mr. Bertiaux to Mr. Kelly.
First of all, Kelly's letter, the original text of which is still available at Kelly's website, is not "full of nonsense" as Tau falsely claims, but contains very simple questions about Chronzon Club, its purpose, practices and method of operation. That is far from being "full of nonsense".
I am also not surprised that the letter might sound uninteresting to Mr. Bertiaux who, as he writes in his reply, prefers to take interest in such fields as "SEX-magic of a horrific type" or "a secret method of control of the Quantum mechanic world of physics via fellatio", which is supposed to be a "funny and sarcastic answer" (as Tau claims) to the serious inquiry from Mr. Kelly.
Tau also blames Kelly for taking seriously such reply, completely ignoring the fact, that when one is asked a serious and mature question, one does not make fool of himself and reply with "gibberish" but rather tries to answer honestly and seriously. The sense of humour is always appreciated, but even if the reply was meant to be humourous, it rather looks to be completely out of proportion in respect to the simplicity of the original inquiry and simply sounds as very unbalanced.
Last but not least, I like to think I have a certain sense of humour too, but after reading both letters, the only amusing thing I found is the fact that Mr. Bertiaux made himself look completely incompetent and idiotic at the same time.


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takshak
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07/02/2018 2:12 am  

Hello everyone..

I am new to the concept of Zothyria of Michael Bertiaux. I am very much interested in knowing about it and its correspondence with Kabbalah and Kliphoth. Could anyone help me in understanding this concept? Thanks in advance.

note- I tried reading Gnostic Workbook but sadly its too advanced and beyond my present comprehension.


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redman
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12/02/2018 8:02 pm  

Has anyone here had first hand experience working with the Lucky Hoodoo Grimoire in the VGW? With the dedication ritual (and perhaps also the version from David Beth's Voudon Gnosis? I would love to hear feedback. Any positive or negative experiences?

Read more: http://theprimalgrimoire.proboards.com/thread/83/bertiaux-works-typhonian-tradition?page=2#ixzz56vRym2eX


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