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Typhonian Rites of Amenta by Sean Woodward

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the_real_simon_iff
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I am confused, which Oxford is the one with the school massacre a few days ago?


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ignant666
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That was a different Oxford, being Oxford, Michigan. There are 31 Oxfords in the US according to this source.

There are many town/city names that exist in many, if not most, US states, bigger cities in the UK and Germany being particularly well represented since most in the early pioneer generation were from those places.

We know Jethro went to high school at the one in Arkansas because there is a shot of a town limit sign that says "Oxford, Arkansas" just as he makes the remark david quoted.

And of course it's near Bug Tussle, Mo., and in the Ozarks.


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katrice
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@the_real_simon_iff 

Michigan


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @ignant666

I mean, i already know dude is full of shit (from the brief excerpt from the introduction to your book that you have provided), i'm just inquiring as to the credentials he claims, as is anyone's right when one goes around claiming credentials. As you may be aware, at least 7/10 claims of doctoral degrees by occultists turn out to be degrees issued by Fly By Night U. 

I heard that Peter Carroll was a Physics lecturer.   I think Dr Stephen Skinner has a Doctorate in Geography.   Talking about occultists who big themselves up as being "Doctors"... how about your pal Shiva?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

how about your pal Shiva?

Oh, but I'm a real doctor. As in "licensed physician." Never mind about the PhD (Education) and the Doctorate in Botanic Medicine - they just add to the burden.

And your point is? "How about" me?

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva

" Never mind about the PhD (Education) and the Doctorate in Botanic Medicine - they just add to the burden.

And your point is? "How about" me?

 

You are a Dr?  Really?  Yeah ok. The question was directed to your pal who seems to think that Magick is only for those who have advanced degrees. 

So I have written this book to help the Banker, the Pugilist, the Biologist, the Poet, the Navvy, the Grocer, the Factory Girl, the Mathematician, the Stenographer, the Golfer, the Wife, the Consul – and all the rest  ~  AC 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

You are a Dr?  Really?  Yeah ok. The question was directed to your pal who seems to think that Magick is only for those who have advanced degrees. 

So I have written this book to help the Banker, the Pugilist, the Biologist, the Poet, the Navvy, the Grocer, the Factory Girl, the Mathematician, the Stenographer, the Golfer, the Wife, the Consul – and all the rest  ~  AC 

Dom-

 

I agree with the gist of your post. I will note that the “Dr. Bob” in question does not try to pass off a “continuing Ed” degree as something more “prestigious” than what it is. He names it as such on his list of schooling on social media. I have great respect for this. Alongside his other degrees, he lists this as something which he is proud of and which had significant value for him. I have personally taken correspondence courses (and even courses of study which only exist on youtube-just me, youtube and a notebook) which have been very meaningful to me, even more so than certain courses I took in college which earned me the “real” degree.

 

But Shiva will also be first to tell you that documentation of the accredited “book-learning” doesn't pass the clairvoyant test (which I trust he is, himself, able to give).

 

Hui Neng, 6th Patriarch of the Zen School, couldn't read. He wasn't just uneducated. He was illiterate. But he beheld the Truth which, beholding, he became.

 

And you are dead on that Crowley had a Vision where Magick was for ALL who might tap the True Will that exists within the heart of Every Man and Every Woman, regardless of their station in society.

 

Now in terms of Shiva being a “Doc,” he IS a Dentist-and dentistry IS related to the Gnostic Epiphany from which certain Magical Siddhis pour, as David Lynch expresses quite wonderful in his most excellent song “Strange and Unproductive Thinking”:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inz_A4zdM44

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

your pal who seems to think that Magick is only for those who have advanced degrees. 

I don't think he even implied your interpretation of his thoughts. He said something to the effect that 70% of occultists' doctoral degree claims are from disreputable schools.

I know all about reputable, disreputable, and borderline 'tween the two, types of schools, colleges, and universities. Tell me what degree you want, and I'll steer you in the right direction. Results may vary depending on how much you're willing to pay and how much schoolwork and research you are willing to undertake.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

But Shiva will also be first to tell you that documentation of the accredited “book-learning” doesn't pass the clairvoyant test (which I trust he is, himself, able to give).

This sentence causes me to become dizzy. Let me be simple - Academic degrees have nothing to do with progress on the Path. Nor does wealth or poverty.

I think Ignant was decrying the slick "occult" authors (authorities) who claim academic degrees from shoddy sources, and he asserts that said degrees are to be found around the 70th percentile - if you were to count all the PhD (etc) occultists. And then do the math.

The only reason my Doc comes into play is that I go a bit beyond traditional, allopathic, cut & stitch, pharmaceutical-peddling docs - and get into several metaphysical applications. Any degrees I hold from Academia have no bearing upon the "hidden" side of things.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Now in terms of Shiva being a “Doc,” he IS a Dentist-

Um, no. Dentistry has the highest suicide rate of any profession. I found out why and gave it a pass. I went back to school when I found what I was interested in, and I came out a Doctor of Oriental Medicine. I've been licensed in two States as a primary-care physician (now retired). No shit, this is great stuff. The official Scope of Practice includes acupuncture, herbs, acupressure, Tai Chi, Qi Gong (fulfilling the "breathing" category).

Know what they took out (from the original 8-branches of Oriental Medicine)? Astrology, Geomancy (Feng Shui), Meditation. If you want to complain about these subtractions from the curriculum, I will give you the data ...

CCP
Beijing

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

your pal who seems to think that Magick is only for those who have advanced degrees. 

I don't think he even implied your interpretation of his thoughts. He said something to the effect that 70% of occultists' doctoral degree claims are from disreputable schools.

I

I think Ignant was decrying the slick "occult" authors (authorities) who claim academic degrees from shoddy sources, and he asserts that said degrees are to be found around the 70th percentile - if you were to count all the PhD (etc) occultists. And then do the 

 

What about the 100 other posts where he used his degrees as some magical badge of honour?   He supports elite private education  ergo he must be a Tory.  

@kidneyhawk 

I'm going to pass on the Lynch video.  Are you joking?  You watch a Lynch movie nowadays and it looks like a 2 hour version of an episode of Angel.  This guy spreads his violence and dumb pretentious weirdness all over modern culture then in later life decides he wants to advise and teach us all how to meditate?  

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

What about the 100 other posts where he used his degrees as some magical badge of honour?   

Assuming the "he" here is me: What a load of shit. You cannot point to even one such post, since i have never done this. As Shiva says, there is no connection between academic degrees and and "spiritual" ones.

I have mentioned being over-educated because it is a part of my life that got me to where i am today, just like being a drug dealer, cook, nightclub bouncer, and bike messenger was part of the journey. And of course i am proud of the decades of hard work and commitment that got me those degrees. And the decades of published research that followed.

Shiva is of course 100% in his interpretation of what i said: occultists know full well the credibility and prestige that attaches to having a doctoral degree, and many try to hijack this credibility and prestige by lying and claiming degrees they haven't earned (whether they have a phony diploma from Mail Order University or not).

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

He supports elite private education  ergo he must be a Tory.  

This is even more idiotic, and even more utterly unfounded in anything i have ever posted. FYI, i have a BA and a law degree from private schools (New York University and Brooklyn Law School), but my MA and PhD are from the very public City University of New York, which is also where i spent my teaching career.

Absolutely, like every other academic and professional in the world, i am conscious of the hierarchies which exist in higher ed. Some schools and programs within schools are "better" than others: they have better faculty, better labs, better facilities generally. Going to a "better" school opens up many work and research opportunities, and means you spend your time in school with smarter people who are better prepared for all the hard work involved, and are taught by folks who are at the pinnacle of their field. Sometimes (but not always), a "better" school means you sit in nicer chairs in nicer buildings. If knowing these things makes me an elitist, OK. "Snob" would be more accurate; i can assure you that my "snobbery" in this area is universal among the over-educated.

My BA is from an arguably "elite" school (though it was less so 32 years ago when i graduated), my law degree is from a decent but "regional" school because i only applied to schools in NYC and didn't get accepted at "elite" Columbia or NYU, my MA and PhD are from a very good program at a well-regarded public research university (although i had no idea of these things when i applied- i only knew the tuition was affordable and it was easy to get to).

My teaching career was spent at that same public university at a college (John Jay College Of Criminal Justice) that is a "majority minority institution", meaning most of the students are black or Latino/a; most of the white students are low income, with many many eastern European immigrants. If i ever had a student who was not a graduate of the NYC public high schools, it was because they went to high school in another country before immigrating to the US.

The idea that professors and students at "elite" schools must be "Tories" (we call them "Republicans" or "right-wing nut jobs" in America) is even more ludicrous. It is a staple of Fox News and other right-wing media that all professors at elite institutions are Anarchists and Communists indoctrinating students with left ideas, while the students at these schools are all "woke" lefty whiners. While this image is clearly nutty and exaggerated  (like most things on Fox/right-wing media), they are a lot closer to being correct than you are.

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

What about the 100 other posts where he used his degrees as some magical badge of honour?

This would come under the heading of "hearsay," but not heresy. Perhaps you could provide, say, one example  of Ignant pulling rank and exhibiting authority over some metaphysical topic by virtue of his academic degree?

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

He supports elite private education  ergo he must be a Tory.  

We don't have Torys [sic] over here. Due to federal financial aid programs for students, "Elite private education"  [snicker] is open to anyone who fulfills the prerequisites.

Posted by: @ignant666

Assuming the "he" here is me:

No "assumption" is necessary. YOU have been chosen.

Posted by: @ignant666

What a load of shit.

Well, yes, one could look at it that way.

Posted by: @ignant666

You cannot point to even one such post, since i have never done this.

I have requested one example - so your life is now hanging by a single example on a single LAShTAL thread.

Posted by: @ignant666

a phony diploma from Mail Order University or not).

Technically, the diploma would not be phony, unless it was an absolute forgery of something that is just "masde up." "Making up" phony degrees and phony study programs is essentially illegal in most parts of the world. In California (for example) one cannot have a school that offers degrees or vocational certificates without being approved by the gov.

There are essentially no "mail order degrees" available to under-educated candidates any more. "Honorarry degrees" may recognize some achievement, but really, they are worthless. To properly evaluate what work the candidate has done, we need to snag a copy of their transcript. Transcripts are required for all transfer credit and to qualify for State Board Examinations, Bar Examinations, and Teaching Positions.

Nobody cares about the diploma or the degree title (except the gullible public). The transcript not only lists the courses that the pretender took, but what grades they got. Did you know that half of the physicians out there graduated in the lower half of their class?

Posted by: @ignant666

(John Jay College Of Criminal Justice) that is a "majority minority institution", meaning most of the students are black or Latino/a; most of the white students are low income, with many many eastern European immigrants.

Just as accused - A Tory in Working Man's disguise.

SUMMARY QUESTION

Dom, why did you disappear for a long period of time (see: Magical Retreats in Book 4 - Part I), and then when you reappeared, your first task is to stir up personality disorders with unfounded, out-of-the-blue conclusions? Say, you're not a Centre of Pestilence, are you (not)?


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

  This guy spreads his violence and dumb pretentious weirdness all over modern culture then in later life decides he wants to advise and teach us all how to meditate?  

 

To be fair, Lynch has been involved with Transcendental Meditation for almost 50 years. His book "Catching the Big Fish" talks a little about his practice's influence on his work.

 

Posted by: @ignant666

Shiva is of course 100% in his interpretation of what i said: occultists know full well the credibility and prestige that attaches to having a doctoral degree, and many try to hijack this credibility and prestige by lying and claiming degrees they haven't earned (whether they have a phony diploma from Mail Order University or not).

Church of Satan, we're looking at you.


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ignant666
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@david-dom-lemieux : Well, david, i see you looked at this thread 31 minutes ago ("Holy AL synchronicities, Batman!"), but i see no apology for your inane slanders on me, nor do i see any attempt to defend them, say with some evidence that i have ever "used [my] degrees as some magical badge of honour", or am a supporter of "elite private education", or am a "Tory".

So i am left to conclude that, in addition to being a loud-mouthed blowhard who goes around slandering folks due to his own deficits in reading comprehension, you are also a great big fraidy-pants coward.

Is this correct, or do you now want to apologize, or step into the Octagon and defend your slanders? Man or mouse, son?


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

Dom, why did you disappear for a long period of time (see: Magical Retreats in Book 4 - Part I), and then when you reappeared, your first task is to stir up personality disorders with unfounded, out-of-the-blue conclusions? Say, you're not a Centre of Pestilence, are you (not)?

Dom is Lashtal's resident troll. Not of the infantile kind like our recently-departed associate Daathiel, though. Dom has more style and is by no means puerile. I also don't get the impression that he gets off on trolling like Daathiel clearly did.    He could be seen when at his best as fulfilling an online ecological niche, challenging members to articulate their thoughts more. While he can be frustrating, he can also be interesting.  

 

That said, where have you been, Dom?  


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ignant666
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Posted by: @katrice

Dom is Lashtal's resident troll.

Yes, he has been that for many years, under all his several incarnations/poster identities, as, back when he was a "skeptical Thelema" pawn, "david", "williams", another one i forget (all three now appearing as "Anonymous" in the archives), then "Dom", and now the current post-"Skeptical" @david-dom-lemieux .

I have long defended him as a sincere student despite his outbursts. He has oscilltated wildly in his politics, from Thatcherite to semi-Stalinist, and i am glad to see that he is on one of his lefty oscillations right now, what with using "Tory" as a pejorative. Clue-phone: As you well know, david, i am one of the most consistent far-left voices here, or in Thelema in general for that matter.

Also (as usual) david is mouthing off about the USA from his limited UK-based knowledge, and so believes supporters of "elite private education" in the US are likely to be right-wing. Clue-phone: the elite private universities in the US are whores who happily take cash from all rich folks, but most of the cash-money "supporters" are Democrats. So are almost all the faculty and students outside Law, Business, and Engineering, except for the ones who are actual Communists and Anarchists. The politics of supporting "elite private education" are i think different in the UK, but you are talking about God's Country here.

How i get to be the current target of all his nutty slanders, or where he gets the idea that i myself am a supporter of "elite private education", or right-wing, or claim "magick credit" for my academic degrees,  i have no idea.

Or how he reconciles all this with his worship of Dr. Tim Leary, PhD, late of uber-elite Harvard University.

In any case, the clock ticks on, Mr. Fraidy-Pants. Man or mouse?


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katrice
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Posted by: @ignant666

I have long defended him as a sincere student   . 

Which, while I haven't been around here for long, he does clearly seem to be.

 

He has oscilltated wildly in his politics, from Thatcherite to semi-Stalinist, and i am glad to see that he is on one of his lefty oscillations right now, what with using "Tory" as a pejorative

I suspect he may shift stances in order to form arguments from different perspectives, though with a little more maturity and sincerity than many trolls or self-proclaimed "contrarians". 

 

 

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Now in terms of Shiva being a “Doc,” he IS a Dentist-

Um, no. Dentistry has the highest suicide rate of any profession. I found out why and gave it a pass. I went back to school when I found what I was interested in, and I came out a Doctor of Oriental Medicine

I have clearly failed the audition to be your Biographer. But I wasn't entirely out in left field with my recollection of tales of Dental School, drugs procured and used and yes, the high suicide rate. An impression was left in my mind of "Shiva, the Dentist." We shall swap this now with:

Shiva

Posted by: @shiva

a Doctor of Oriental Medicine

I will add that I have great respect for Chiropractors who have helped me out in significant ways over the years.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

I'm going to pass on the Lynch video.  Are you joking? 

The link is not to a video but a song. Although I can appreciate and enjoy aspects of Lynch's filmography, I actually like him more as a musician. This particular piece is quite wonderful-and forges a strange yet poignant and practical link between the Evolution of Consciousness and proper dental hygiene. I thought Shiva would get a kick out of it-and he still might. Even if I was in error as to him being a Doctor of Dentistry, it remains part of his body of knowledge and skill.

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

The link is not to a video but a song. Although I can appreciate and enjoy aspects of Lynch's filmography, I actually like him more as a musician. This particular piece is quite wonderful-and forges a strange yet poignant and practical link between the Evolution of Consciousness and proper dental hygiene. I thought Shiva would get a kick out of it-and he still might. Even if I was in error as to him being a Doctor of Dentistry, it remains part of his body of knowledge and skill.

 

  I like to think that Shiva isn't the kind of wacko that bigs himself up as something he isn't/wasn't.  Maybe I projected that he wasn't forthcoming with real hard facts.  If so I apologise to Shiva.  

Posted by: @ignant666

Also (as usual) david is mouthing off about the USA from his limited UK-based knowledge, and so believes supporters of "elite private education" in the US are likely to be right-wing.

It's good that you're not an intellectual snob then.  I apologise for projecting that. 

 

What do you make of this MITAP quote from AC?

 

So I have written this book to help the Banker, the Pugilist, the Biologist, the Poet, the Navvy, the Grocer, the Factory Girl, the Mathematician, the Stenographer, the Golfer, the Wife, the Consul – and all the rest  ~  AC

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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David Dom Lemieux
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MITAP i.e. Magick in Theory and Practice.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

Dom is Lashtal's resident troll.

I refuse to give him Troll status. He is above that, but he has, um, moments when he displays aberrations that are qualified by condescension. At other times, he displays meaningful lucidity. But who can tell the difference between Frater David and the imp Dom?

Posted by: @ignant666

I have long defended him as a sincere student despite his outbursts.

Yes. Me too. And look who he (re)turns on ... his supporters.

Posted by: @ignant666

How i get to be the current target of all his nutty slanders, or where he gets the idea that i myself am a supporter of "elite private education", or right-wing, or claim "magick credit" for my academic degrees,  i have no idea.

Well, you'll have to work a little harder, won't you?

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

An impression was left in my mind of "Shiva, the Dentist."

Well, look, I did the 4 years in dental school, walking out (like Crowley, the idiot)bprior to graduation. So I'm not a DDS or a DMD. Instead, I was employed by the University of Southern Calif (my almost alma mater) dental school - to practice and teach the art of dental radiography (x-rays). I went on to get the State license in oral radiography. Then I bailed out and taught Dental Laboratory Technololgy (crowns, bridges, dentures) for years. Along the way, I filled a tooth or two and built a bridge or a denture for family or friends.

I have a complete dental laboratory. The last thing I did was re-cement a crown that came loose in my wife's mouth. Last year.

So you may think of me as a dentist - just don't say I'm one.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

I have great respect for Chiropractors

Yeah, but they vary. I have attended many Chiros as a patient. I have been damaged by some of them, and benefited greatly by others. I also practice chiropractic, although it is disguised under Shiatsu, which is a form of Japanese massage that falls under the "massage" section of the Scope of Practice. I have also studied Mongolian Tui-na, which is just about as violent a form of Chiro that can be found (not painful, it just looks violent).

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

  I like to think that Shiva isn't the kind of wacko that bigs himself up as something he isn't/wasn't.

Oh, good, and thanks. I'll tell you where I pull rank: In the doctor's office(s). They often say that docs make the worst patients. I don't even let them know I'm a doc until they back me into a corner (rare, but they've tried).

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

I refuse to give him Troll status. He is above that, but he has, um, moments when he displays aberrations that are qualified by condescension. At other times, he displays meaningful lucidity. But who can tell the difference between Frater David and the imp Dom?

I return to my metaphor of the Pub. It's a bit like a family. Dom is not like the sundry "Spring Birds" and Trolls who flutter in and vanish. He's a regular. And why hasn't he been around lately? Who knows? Things happen in life. Work, family and so on.

STILL-! Ignant has thrown down the glove over "fightin' words" and we do have a tendency to take each other to task...

Posted by: @ignant666

I have long defended him as a sincere student despite his outbursts.

Yes. Me too. And look who he (re)turns on ... his supporters.

Well, there's not a whole lot of us left here. The OTO had a "senior member" announce that he was aware of no official policy to not visit Lashtal. And then left. For personal reasons. No other OTOers following the "appearance."

Just a few of the rabble keeping the conversation going. So if Dom wants to argue over the merits of David Lynch films, he's not exactly striking a teeming anthill.

Posted by: @shiva

I did the 4 years in dental school, walking out

Posted by: @shiva

Along the way, I filled a tooth or two and built a bridge or a denture for family or friends.

Posted by: @shiva

have a complete dental laboratory. The last thing I did was re-cement a crown that came loose in my wife's mouth. Last year.

This is SO Dr. Benway.

Without "operating in a lavatory," of course.

In all seriousness, I have great respect for your skill-set.

So...what did you think of the David Lynch song?

Posted by: @shiva

I have attended many Chiros as a patient. I have been damaged by some of them

This is awful. I got the full spine-snapping, neck-cracking experience as a child as my mother brought me to a Chiro for "adjustments." Also acupuncture. I was never hurt. I found it all horribly boring.

In my adult life, two Chiropractors helped me with serious back issues and I owe them both a debt of gratitude. They seriously saved me.

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

I refuse to give him Troll status. He is above that, but he has, um, moments when he displays aberrations that are qualified by condescension. At other times, he displays meaningful lucidity.

He seems to aim to provoke, which qualifies as trolling. His is definitely above the most common form of trolling, though. For one thing, Dom doesn't come across as getting off on hurting people, and his trolling has more intelligence and depth to it.  He's also capable of having a discussion rather than just automatically gainsaying. 

 

Plus, Dom apologizes when he genuinely sees himself as having said something wrong. Most importantly, he's capable of seeing himself as having said something wrong. 

 Mongolian Tui-na, which is just about as violent a form of Chiro that can be found (not painful, it just looks violent).

I know of shiatsu, but have only seen the name  Tui-na. I know nothing about it.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

He seems to aim to provoke

Well, gee, it's really simple. "4th ray people are aggressive and argumentative." It's a common ray (see my wife), a common trait, and it's commonly encountered among people at large.

see: https://crystal-chip.angelfire.com/zip04.htm
I see several pics are disconnected

Posted by: @katrice

have only seen the name  Tui-na. I know nothing about it.

Tui-na is a Chinese form of massage. Practitioners are employed in the physical therapy departments of the heathen Chinese hospitals. Dr Chen, who founded a Big herbal company, went to Mongolia to study their form of therapy. Since Mongols spend a lotta time on horseback, they need quick fixes for dislocated joints ... and so on. The art is not called Mongolian Tui-na by anybody other than Dr Chen and his students. It is Emergency Room Chiropractic under a mysterious Mongolian paradigm.


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Zīz śāday
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This book seems quite interesting, but does it offer any insights or is it just aesthetics? One problem I've encountered with authors that claim/are associated with all things Typhonian is that it usually presents itself as some sort of qliphotic miasma and visions (from the Mauve Zone), but usually the written material itself seems lacking. The Newaeon Newsletter and Sword of Horus by G. M. Kelly (Grand Master Kelly?) was quite open in his criticism against Bertiaux, Grant and other Typhonian writers whose books are perhaps more inspirational walls of text, but these materials can serve as a building blocks and I think they serve a need: my own Adeptus Exemptus thesis was a heavily edited version of Kenneth Grant's Nightside of Eden that I re-titled as Nightshade of Eden. Nothing irrelevant was added, nothing was deleted, but lengthy commentaries were added, among with few chapters with lengthy explanatory footnotes, with appendixes and glossaries. As the book concerns cells associated with the Qliphotic Djinn and the nightside (nightshade?) of Tree and Amenta, after I had finished the book I simply threw it to the thrash bin and never came back to it. Partly for copyright reasons (I don't think can you even self-publish material that you do not own copyrights), partly for the reason that as J.F.C Fuller warns (or has warned the reader), that those sigils of Liber 231 are highly potent and dangerous if left exposed and lying around.

 

In terms of magical thinking, Fuller may be right. Especially the Voudou materials of Bertiaux and that even Grant flirts with, what contributes to distance from the subtle forces of nature can actually act as a protection against the qliphotic and what is usually termed as black magic. Work with such sigils and excremental parts of the tree and sigils associated with would have little power over a modern man grounded in academia and science, an intellectual type and city-dweller, whereas they would prove effective against more 'backward' and 'primitive' human groups. (Ask anybody living in Haiti if Voudou is real)

 

Nightside of Eden was still was a great experience and Kenneth Grant as my guide, I perhaps would have never completed my travels in Amenta. For me it was like a powerful horror movie or a similar form of entertainment, but after I finished it, it was time to ground myself with reality (hard work, chop wood, carry water and studying). Typhonian materials can certainly act as a stimulant, like tobacco, and that is what Typhonian tradition is all about for me, but sometimes I crave of more depth and clarity, rather than some obscure references that are never properly explained. 

The boar from the forest ravages it, and Zīz śāday וְזִיז שָׂדַי‎ feeds on it


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice
Posted by: @shiva

I refuse to give him Troll status. He is above that, but he has, um, moments when he displays aberrations that are qualified by condescension. At other times, he displays meaningful lucidity.

He seems to aim to provoke, which qualifies as trolling. His is definitely above the most common form of trolling, though. For one thing, Dom doesn't come across as getting off on hurting people, and his trolling has more intelligence and depth to it.  He's also capable of having a discussion rather than just automatically gainsaying. 

 

Plus, Dom apologizes when he genuinely sees himself as having said something wrong. Most importantly, he's capable of seeing himself as having said something wrong. 

 

So Ignant for example is generally always pleasant, gracious and civil (particularly to fly bys)? 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Ignant for example is generally always pleasant, gracious and civil

That is correct.

I am very polite about telling nutty people that they are nutty. In the face of your now-retracted slanders above, i was civil and polite while calling what you said a load of shit, for example.


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

So Ignant for example is generally always pleasant, gracious and civil (particularly to fly bys)? 

I don't recall having ever said such a thing. I couldn't even say that about myself. 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Ignant for example is generally always pleasant, gracious and civil

That is correct.

I am very polite about telling nutty people that they are nutty. In the face of your now-retracted slanders above, i was civil and polite while calling what you said a load of shit, for example.

Talking of fake accusations, Leary ain't my hero and neither is his pot bellied pot-headed friend RAW.  No offence taken though.  I don't know how many times you've said that.  Los and Hessle/Hassle my heroes?  Everyone who ever did magic rituals should have a good grounding in scientific material cynicism.  I stand by that.  They went overboard though.   Stalinist? Me? No the story was about my dad commenting about a TV documentary on the kulaks.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

So Ignant for example is generally always pleasant, gracious and civil (particularly to fly bys)? 

I don't recall having ever said such a thing. I couldn't even say that about myself. 

The point is, maybe be more democratic in your troll-finding.  Ignant for example gets more ticking offs by the administrator tha any other regular.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

The point is, maybe be more democratic in your troll-finding.  Ignant for example gets more ticking offs by the administrator tha any other regular.

Ignant doesn't base his presence on the forums around trolling, though. He may occasionally take an antagonistic or hostile stance, but, from what I've seen, he doesn't make a point to be that way in general, and his posts along those lines are in the minority compared to his overall posting. 

 

You, however, fulfill an ecological niche here. You are the Adversary, the tester. It may be aggravating at times, but it also has beneficial effects. 


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ignant666
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Ignant for example gets more ticking offs by the administrator tha any other regular.

I can recall "getting a ticking off" from Paul, once, in the 16 years i've been posting here, when i maligned Jimmy Page as to his alleged dalliance with a certain notorious LA teenage groupie, and was in fact factually incorrect. I apologized, and that was the end of that.

Once in 16 years does not seem to me such a bad track record.

As to these very silly, and ridiculously false, claims

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Leary ain't my hero and neither is his pot bellied pot-headed friend RAW. 

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Los and Hessle/Hassle my heroes? [...] They went overboard though.

I will not even dignify them with a response.

You do realize that, although the many, many years of posts re the genius of Leary, Wilson (both of them: Colin and RAW), and Los (though seldom Erwin) are now hidden by being posted by "Anonymous", they are still right there in the archives for folks with good memories (like me) to pull up and quote at length, right?

And of course your writing style is so distinctive that the posts are obviously by you. You do recall that when you re-surfaced as "Dom", i almost immediately said "You're the guy who used to post as 'david'", right?

I suggest you seek treatment for memory loss before it is too late.


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David Dom Lemieux
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I wouldn't have trusted Leary as far as I could have thrown him.  A pushy snake at times.

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

I wouldn't have trusted Leary as far as I could have thrown him. 

Posted by: @ignant666

I suggest you seek treatment for memory loss before it is too late.

Don't make me start searching the archives for your pro-"Space Migration" posts, david.


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

wouldn't have trusted Leary as far as I could have thrown him.  A pushy snake at times.

 

Could we not say the same thing about a certain Englishman? And never the less, we find merit in his work, in part if not in whole. 


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David Dom Lemieux
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  • Posted by: ignant666

Don't make me start searching the archives for your pro-"Space Migration" posts, david.

You do that and I'll Google the terms 'Lashtal' and "alright tone it down now" which is English for 'You're being ticked off' but maybe do it in a different thread as we're getting OT here.

@kidneyhawk 

Yes 'the imp' Leary I guess.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

we're getting OT here.

Oh, the irony.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @behemoth

(I don't think can you even self-publish material that you do not own copyrights)

Sure you can (publish others' works) - as long as they're out of copyright. That's a long time these days. If the work is still copyrighted, you are correct - if you publish, some author or heir may (not guaranteed) send you a Notice to Knock it Off, or a Summons.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

So Ignant for example is generally always pleasant, gracious and civil (particularly to fly bys)? 

Why, yes. But he only bites the heads off of the pretenders and those with a warped agenda. Anyone with any agenda is probably doomed to either the Octagon or the Grand Tribunal. Why, I have seen Ignant be courteous and civil to several people. He was thorough in his Inquisition of me, back when I fist appeared - but he was never gribbly. For a definition of gribbly, see almost any post by Los (i.e., demeaning, insulting).

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Leary ain't my hero and neither is his pot bellied pot-headed friend RAW.

Caramba! and the New Age. The old gods have fallen. Who shall arise to take their place?

Posted by: @ignant666

I can recall "getting a ticking off" from Paul, once, in the 16 years i've been posting here

See? You are a criminal. I fail to see how your account remains active.

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

I wouldn't have trusted Leary as far as I could have thrown him.

Let's say you are really strong, with good Chi - we'll give you six feet (2 metres). Does this mean you would trust him at, say, three feet?

.


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highlylowlywilyholydipdipdip
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Posted by: @behemoth

This book seems quite interesting, but does it offer any insights or is it just aesthetics? One problem I've encountered with authors that claim/are associated with all things Typhonian is that it usually presents itself as some sort of qliphotic miasma and visions (from the Mauve Zone), but usually the written material itself seems lacking.

You might be right, I have the first edition and found it to behave like a really deep g(h)uided meditation. It doesn't really convey any information directly but it does take you on a fantastic journey much like Grant's fiction works and conveys initiation in a sidereal sort of way.


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katrice
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Posted by: @behemoth

This book seems quite interesting, but does it offer any insights or is it just aesthetics?  

I was wondering that myself. What value would this book have for someone who has the Typhonian Trilogies,  The Shadow Tarot, and Jan Fries's Nightshades, for example?

(Ask anybody living in Haiti if Voudou is real)

African Magick is never to be taken lightly. 

 

 


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Zīz śāday
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Posted by: @katrice
Posted by: @behemoth

This book seems quite interesting, but does it offer any insights or is it just aesthetics?  

I was wondering that myself. What value would this book have for someone who has the Typhonian Trilogies,  The Shadow Tarot, and Jan Fries's Nightshades, for example?

(Ask anybody living in Haiti if Voudou is real)

African Magick is never to be taken lightly. 

I did not try to say this in a debasing manner. The thing with Voodoo and even (siberian) Shamanism is that some some perennialist authors have argued that they are residues of once genuine, more higher forms of religion, but in terms of our current day they have suffered the effects of modernity and only the outer shell and the lowest forms of their religions remain.

 

I still think the magical paranoia and western ignorance as protection works very well against these things even in some sort of Albino de Congo situation. If you start to play chess with pigeons, you have to start play with their rules. Most gypsies in my country had strange hygienic rules: they could never sleep in a house where someone had died and never buy second hand stuff from dead people. Even mentioning dead people would be a taboo for most of them. They also shunned all sorts of "supernatural" books, but for some reason tasseomancy and palm reading was allowed. But in the end it is my opinion that all of these rules, extremely obscure systems, hexes, curses, dietary laws will sooner or later (if followed to the end) drive one to insanity and perhaps you reach a point like David Bowie (if my memory serves right) that you start sealing off your feces and nail clippings because someone might be going through your trash and use it against you. I myself can still eat bacon and if there is any haunted, abandoned house without any black mold problems I am ready to stop by and spend the night, even if there are some rituals going on in the basement. 

 

 

The boar from the forest ravages it, and Zīz śāday וְזִיז שָׂדַי‎ feeds on it


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katrice
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Posted by: @behemoth

I did not try to say this in a debasing manner. 

I did not mean to imply that you did.  I was simply affirming that I have some experience with that area myself. 

The thing with Voodoo and even (siberian) Shamanism is that some some perennialist authors have argued that they are residues of once genuine, more higher forms of religion, but in terms of our current day they have suffered the effects of modernity and only the outer shell and the lowest forms of their religions remain.

I have seen such ideas elsewhere.  I'd argue that the core of these practices aren't degenerated, they just take a form not recognized as "civilized" by some people.Some perennialist authors do have certain biases.   But there have been a lot of accretions to the systems over time, in particular a lot of folk magick practices.  But the African diasporic traditions have always been syncretic. 

My own experience with the Loa, Orisha, Enkisi, and their followers  have taught me that that current is potent and is not to be trifled with.

gypsies

Roma

 

 I do agree that all of the superstitions, taboos, and other rules would be maddening, though I'd argue that if they work for the people who follow them, who am I to argue?  

 

But, while full disbelief can confer immunity,  sometimes those things can work even if you don't personally believe them. Those are the ones to watch out for.   

 

David Bowie (if my memory serves right) that you start sealing off your feces and nail clippings because someone might be going through your trash and use it against you

I'm not sure about Bowie, but I remember Parsons expressing similar ideas.


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Zīz śāday
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Posted by: @katrice

 

gypsies

Roma

 

Is this a degradatory term in American English? Because here in Europe all the gypsies that I have worked with the old Gypo families call themselves 'blackies' (the literal word is 'the black one' how they refer themselves). They of course have their own language and the 'whites' are refferred to as "Shiivas/Siivas" around these parts and they themselves refer to their own 'kind' as "Kaalos", (See Romani: Kàlo; Swedish: Kalé; Finnish: Kaale). I've called many Roma people "blackies" and they don't take it as an insult.

I feel a great deal compassion for gypsies, because in ye olden times their profession was sharpening instruments like knives, farm equipment, sharpening all sorts of tools and maintenance and my grandmother from mother's side for example always welcomed them (this must have been early 1900s) to stay at the land for they were also good with horses. They were used as some sort of contract workers. As industrial farming grew, many of the families lost their old profession around here in Northern Europe and I think their unemployment rate must be close to 95% around these parts and which contributes to their isolation from general population.

I've met great deal of Roma people, but never I have themselves heard of them use the term. They simply call themselves 'blackies', while in more official matters they prefer the term Roma/Kaalo. I think the Roma nation itself is an absurdity considering they were always on the move.

The Irish travellers I've seen/read about do not look like Roma people to me, they seem like white people who have adopted the lifestyle, but I know old Gypo/Roma families from my town and all of them definitely look Indian and their skin is tanned to a great degree. If not tanned, they have a dark, black hair that distinguishes them.

The boar from the forest ravages it, and Zīz śāday וְזִיז שָׂדַי‎ feeds on it


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katrice
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Posted by: @behemoth

 

Is this a degradatory term in American English?

It could be an American thing, or an official matters thing but, yes, at least in my experience, "Gypsy" is considered a slur and "Roma"  or "Rom" is the preferred term, which I have heard from actual Rom. 

 

they themselves refer to their own 'kind' as "Kaalos", (See Romani: Kàlo; Swedish: Kalé; Finnish: Kaale). I've called many Roma people "blackies" and they don't take it as an insult

Thank you for the elucidation, I do appreciate it.  You've taught me some new things. And I think you are right about the Travellers being more like Europeans who have adopted the life.

 

 I think the Roma nation itself is an absurdity considering they were always on the move.

I'm not certain I'm reading you correctly, but, if I am, "nation" can refer to a people as well as to a geographical area.  I apologize if I have misread this. 

 

 


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Zīz śāday
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Posted by: @katrice
Posted by: @behemoth

 

Is this a degradatory term in American English?

It could be an American thing, or an official matters thing but, yes, at least in my experience, "Gypsy" is considered a slur and "Roma"  or "Rom" is the preferred term, which I have heard from actual Rom. 

 

they themselves refer to their own 'kind' as "Kaalos", (See Romani: Kàlo; Swedish: Kalé; Finnish: Kaale). I've called many Roma people "blackies" and they don't take it as an insult

Thank you for the elucidation, I do appreciate it.  You've taught me some new things. And I think you are right about the Travellers being more like Europeans who have adopted the life.

 

 I think the Roma nation itself is an absurdity considering they were always on the move.

I'm not certain I'm reading you correctly, but, if I am, "nation" can refer to a people as well as to a geographical area.  I apologize if I have misread this. 

 

 

 

Well the Romani flag created in 1933 and accepted at the 1971 World Romani Congress itself shows a wheel. This itself, in my opinion, distinguishes their wagon-like horse carriages and roaming type of existence, perhaps dating back to a time when border crossing was easier and less hassle. The Romani Nation itself was a sort of inside joke in these parts, considering their quite active and roaming lifestyle (not staying at one place) and the dislike for any governmental structures. Most of them have the attitude of 'render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, but leave us be!'.

 

Most of the societal problems with these people stem from industrial revolution (this is my opinion). They cannot roam freely anymore as they used to and now they are confined into these government cubicles and the taboos associated with them make them even more isolated from the general population.

 

Some claim that they were originally the lowest caste of the Hindu caste system, Dalits, who were banished from India, but I think this might be some tale to justify the persecution against them. Around these parts, the old Roma families have very strict rules to live by. If for example they live in a apartment building, the old people must always live at the highest floor. It would be a great disgrace for the people younger to live 'above' the elderly. If they drop the newspaper to the ground, the newspaper is contaminated and as such cannot be read anymore or placed on the table where people eat, because the floor has contaminated the newspaper (even if the floor is clean). Of course not all families live by such strict rules, but this is more than common.

The boar from the forest ravages it, and Zīz śāday וְזִיז שָׂדַי‎ feeds on it


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Zīz śāday
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Posted by: @katrice

The thing with Voodoo and even (siberian) Shamanism is that some some perennialist authors have argued that they are residues of once genuine, more higher forms of religion, but in terms of our current day they have suffered the effects of modernity and only the outer shell and the lowest forms of their religions remain.

I have seen such ideas elsewhere.  I'd argue that the core of these practices aren't degenerated, they just take a form not recognized as "civilized" by some people.Some perennialist authors do have certain biases.   But there have been a lot of accretions to the systems over time, in particular a lot of folk magick practices.  But the African diasporic traditions have always been syncretic. 

My own experience with the Loa, Orisha, Enkisi, and their followers  have taught me that that current is potent and is not to be trifled with.

 

The thing is that with perennialist authors like Guénon, Schuon, Upton took the paranoia to a different level than most people. Guénon fled France and spent the rest of the days hiding in Egypt under the protection of Sufi orders refusing visitors and did not even share pictures of himself as he was afraid of magical attacks under obscure threat of 'Jewish lawyers' who were ought to get him.

I don't take any sides on these theories, but the problem rises with magical artifacts. Guénon came to conclusion that violating Egyptian tombs and other archaeological interests activates the curses with these tombs that were sealed and to be remain unviolated. Charles Upton then went on to argue that certain black magicians circle around true initiatory structures and this is coined under the perennialist terminology as "counter-initiation". Guénon says that Crowley and Trebitsch-Lincoln were one of the main modern agents of counter-initiatory structures.

One of the more interestings books on this matter is "René Guénon et les sept tours du diable" (René Guénon and the Seven Towers of Shaytan). Allemand associates the Seven Towers with that of the constellation Big Dipper and especially oil and petroleum drilling activities. The Yezidi religion is also featured in a sense that the perennialist theory is that black magicians are re-animating the outer shell of the once genuine Yezidi religion for counter-initiatory activities through magical artifacts and psychothronic warfare. This book was a bit too much of a pulp fiction for me, but interesting take that I can recommend.

Parareligion has also a great article on paranoia that I can recommend: https://www.parareligion.ch/schlag.htm

 

The boar from the forest ravages it, and Zīz śāday וְזִיז שָׂדַי‎ feeds on it


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice

My own experience with the Loa, Orisha, Enkisi, and their followers  have taught me that that current is potent and is not to be trifled with.

Please elaborate.   I have Colin Wilson's bio on AC (Aleister Crowley: The Nature of the Beast)where (in Chapter 1 Does Magic work?)  Wilson goes pubic with his belief in supernatural phenomena citing a story about the Brazilian Candomble as an example.  I don't see how the voodoo pantheons of Haiti, Brazil and Cuba involve different energies than those used by  a Gringo Cabbalist ceremonial magician.  The former , as I understand it, are essentially summoning the same things but they decapitate goats and chickens as part of their path.  Additionally, God- possession appears to be comparatively extended in voodoo.  Caballist scholar and magician Jim Eshelman categorises voodoo deities on The Tree of Life in his book 776 1/2.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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katrice
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Posted by: @behemoth

 

he was afraid of magical attacks under obscure threat of 'Jewish lawyers' who were ought to get him.

I've seen similar things among devotees of Franz Bardon, as far as fear of magickal attacks go. In that particular case,  I blame the book Frabato the Magician. 

The thing about that kind of paranoia is that it feeds the ego.  Suddenly, people think that they're under attack by "Black Magicians", which of course tells them that they must be important or doing something good.

And they also now have an excuse for why they can't find their car keys.  

The truth is, most actual Black Magicians have better things to do than to spend their days magickally attacking people that they've never met.

 

Charles Upton

I'm familiar with a number of perennialist thinkers, like Guenon, Evola, Schuon, and Coomaraswamy, but I admit I know nothing of Upton.

 

"counter-initiation".

I am familiar with that term, too.  Like the term "Black Magician", it seems to frequently be used simply to describe people that the one using that term does not like, rather than used in its professed meaning.

 

 Guénon says that Crowley and Trebitsch-Lincoln were one of the main modern agents of counter-initiatory structures.

While Evola, while he expressed reservations about some things, seemed to have respect for Crowley, at least from what I've read.

 

Allemand associates the Seven Towers with that of the constellation Big Dipper and especially oil and petroleum drilling activities. 

I haven't seen them associated with oil drilling.  Interesting.  Rollo Ahmed helped to perpetuate the idea of the Seven Towers as well, though I don't know whether he believed in them or was just winding people up. The Big Dipper is held in esteem by some modern Left Hand Path groups, and of course also holds a place in Taoist practices as well.  

I may need to read the article you linked to a couple more times before providing any in depth commentary, but I'd broaden the idea beyond simple repression of homosexuality to repression in general. A God ignored is a Demon born, and those demons can manifest in a number of ways not obviously associated with their origin.  


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christibrany
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@katrice 

In such a response, you're very polite.

More than most of us. 


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katrice
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Posted by: @christibrany

@katrice 

In such a response, you're very polite.

More than most of us. 

Thank you.   I try to err on the side of politeness. I'm used to dealing with a wide range of types of people.  


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ignant666
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Ignant for example is generally always pleasant, gracious and civil

Posted by: @katrice

I try to err on the side of politeness.

You are indeed very polite, but i, as nominated by david, am the Undisputed Lashtal Politeness & Civility Champion!!

All must now address me me as S.'. P.'.* Fra. ignant666!!!!

BY ORDER!!!!

-----------------------

* "Supremely Polite", of course.


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