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Falcon
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07/07/2020 3:57 am  

"The Sicilian peasant who can roar with laughter at some blasphemous obscenity of his village priest while preserving his devotion to the deities satirized, will justly be astonished and disgusted with me. He will hardly credit that anyone can take deities so seriously as to do anyone an injury on their behalf. He is at heart a Pagan; Mary is his mistress and Jesus his ‘Bambino’, and he loves to play with them in the woods where the sunlight traces its faint fan-patterns among the leaves.

The idea of a Jesus who objected to people playing on a Sunday — who insisted on being worshipped in a silk hat and frock coat, who couldn’t stand people obtaining refreshment after 12:30 — well, it never struck him, that’s all!

So when I go wandering among country-side Catholics I am nearly as happy in their simple worship as I am with the grander and austerer conceptions of Mohammed." - Aleister Crowley

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/agora/2016/05/the-blooming-staff-on-thelemic-catholicism-mary-or-nu-isis/

 

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"Catholic Christians are really Pagans at heart; there is usually good stuff in them, particularly in Latin countries. They only need to be instructed in the true meaning of their faith to reflect the false veils.

An XXI Sol in Cancer After some years spent in Catholic countries, I wish to modify the above. Catholics are dead alike to Spirituality and to Reason, as bad as Protestants. And the Jew is far from hopeless outside America..." - AL III.18 New Comment

http://book-of-the-law.com/

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Islamic Roots of Thelema (first in a series)

Aleister Crowley's admiration for Islam is no particular secret. In Magick Without Tears, he wrote:

 

The most important of all of the efforts of the White School, from an exoteric point of view, is Islam. In its doctrine there is some slight taint, but much less than in Christianity. It is a virile religion. It looks facts in the face, and admits their horror; but it proposes to overcome them by sheer dint of manhood. Unfortunately, the metaphysical conceptions of its quasi-profane Schools are grossly materialistic. It is only the Pantheism of the Sufis which eliminates the conception of propitiation [characteristic of the Black School]; and, in practice, the Sufis are too closely allied to the Vedantists to retain hold of reality.

Crowley identified Mohammed, the Prophet of Islam, as a Saint of E.G.C. and a Magus of A.'.A.'., and Crowley directly compared his own relationship to the "praeterhuman intelligence" Aiwass with Mohammed's relationship to the angel Gabriel. During the Cairo working which resulted in the reception of The Book of the Law, Crowley was of course living in a predominantly Muslim city. During this time, according to his own account, he "had assumed some disguise, probably with the intention of trying to study Islam from within as he had done with Hinduism." With respect to his social circumstances at the time, he relates, "We occasionally hobnobbed with a General Dickson, who had accepted Islam; otherwise we knew nobody in Cairo except natives, carpet merchants, pimps, jewellers, and such small deer." And yet in his Confessions, he offers these details regarding Cairo in early 1904:

As to my study of Islam, I got a sheikh to teach me Arabic and the practices of ablution, prayer and so on, so that at some future time I might pass for a Moslem among themselves. I learnt a number of chapters of the Koran by heart.....

My sheikh was profoundly versed in the mysticism and magic of Islam, and discovering that I was an initiate, had no hesitation in providing me with books and manuscripts on the Arabic Cabbala. These formed the basis of my comparative studies.

Crowley claimed that his sheikh also taught him "many of the secrets of the Sidi Aissawa," a Sufitariqa or initiatory system. Many of Crowley's examples of the yogic technique of mantra are in Arabic, and his description of them sometimes relates more strongly to the Sufi practice of dhikr. And his A.'.A.'. program recommends to aspirants the study of "Sufi poetry generally."

This topic was modified 1 month ago by Falcon

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ignant666
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07/07/2020 1:18 pm  

I have had a deep and visceral hatred and fear of Xianity from earliest childhood. There is an immense amount of Xian rhetoric/theology and Jesus talk included in Thelema and AC's work, which always weirded me out.

In 1983, i was in the cathedral in Oaxaca, Mexico. There is a side chapel on the right which had just a very stark crucifix, with huge bundles of long red dried chiles hung from each arm of the cross. Chile in Mexican slang means penis. I had some sort of epiphany. Suddenly that stuff from AC about Catholicism being a form of paganism made sense to me.


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dom
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07/07/2020 3:57 pm  

Crowley didn't like Anglo Saxons I.e. W.A.S.P.s.  In the Confessions he said something about Anglo Saxons are obsessed with the prevention of bestial sin but that's where they permanently dwell.....something like that.

Leary also said something similar about WASPs being behind the puritanical streak in America whereas the Catholics were more laissez faire, that includes political regimes also.  Whether that's a sweeping generalization I don't know, furthermore there was only ever one American Catholic President and they wacked him.

Yeah Crowley thought Latinos were generally superior to European Whites and I'd  say that Latinos are generally Catholic.

Adios.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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07/07/2020 4:19 pm  

I think Leary was referring to attitudes around alcohol Prohibition, which was a very Protestant, and openly anti-Catholic, movement.

Banning wine at communion was a popular idea among the Nativist evangelicals who dominated the Temperance/Prohibition movement, although the Volstead Act eventually allowed a religious exemption for communion wine, and religious use of wine among Jews. To this day, many Protestant denominations use grape juice at communion; i don't think evangelicals do communion at all though?


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Shiva
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07/07/2020 7:39 pm  
Posted by: @falcon

Crowley claimed that his sheikh also taught him "many of the secrets of the Sidi Aissawa ..."

What a coincidence. Many years ago, in the sacred 60s, I noticed that Liber AL contained a few Muslim terms ... like Kaaba and Qiblah, and of course we know that AC liked to dress up and be photographed. It should be noted that AL specifically in its Horus aspect, does not like Mohammed (nor the other profits), and his [Mo's] eyesight is said to be clouded by wings.

So, back then, I undertook a short course in Islam. We had a tenant from USC who was from Persia, and he let me examine his Koran. It turned out that these same guys captured some Templar Crusaders and they [the Temps] took an Oath and joined the Saracen in their studies. This is (supposedly) where the West got its IX* secret. We know where that led, and where to find it today.

But then time time passed and the Islamic Jihad rose up, even in our own lifetimes, waging a war over which idea of God Allah would prevail. So I studied Islam a bit more and found that they want to capture me (an infidel) and either kill me, convert me, or enslave me.

I now have no further interest in Islam, except every now and again I stop to count my bullets.

Posted by: @ignant666

I have had a deep and visceral hatred and fear of Xianity from earliest childhood.

The same thing goes for the Jesus flock. They invented Crusades and the Inquisition, and they made me sit still for irrational program during my puberty period. They are not likely to attack my homestead with curved swords any day soon, but I still keep an extra box to count.

Posted by: @dom

Crowley didn't like Anglo Saxons

I wonder what people mean when they say "Anglo-Saxon." The "Anglo" comes from Anglia, which was not originally not in England, but it was a small State in northern Germany. Same goes for "Saxon" which is another German State. So the original Anglo-Saxons were simply Germans who moved into England. They had some friction with the Celts, but I didn't study this part very deep, so I dunno for sure.

Yeah, the Germans moved in and ruled England on and off over the centuries, and they gave us the core of English, which is important these days. So did the Romans and the French, and they added their words to English. And the Vikings, who came from a close place to Anglia had their say in running parts of England (et Scotland), and they added words too.

So these dwellers were mostly White (W). They came from North Germany and the Denmark/Sweden suburbs (A-S). And they didn't like the Universal Roman Church, so they protested (P). Thus we have the racial-theological term (WASP), which different people have opinions about.

I see a bunch of fragmentation with each fragment being stereotyped. This is why Horus wants these believers and fragmenters to be thrown out with the bath-water.

Posted by: @dom

Yeah Crowley thought Latinos were generally superior to European Whites and I'd  say that Latinos are generally Catholic.

Yeah, that's a Sweeping Generalization. Somewhen (1936? '39?, I don't remember), the Mexican population rose up against the Church, killing Priests all over the place. To this day, it is illegal for a Priest to be seen in religious garb outside his Church. So the Latinos can only be pushed into Catholicism so far.

Anyway, this thread was about Crowley-Islam. Note that in his later years, AC tended to dwell on being British and he didn't dress up in Sufi costume. When one gets older, this foreign fascination fades and if one has done their practices, the unity of life is perceived and the fragmentary window-dressing can no longer be seen.

 


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dom
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07/07/2020 8:05 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

 

 

Posted by: @dom

Yeah Crowley thought Latinos were generally superior to European Whites and I'd  say that Latinos are generally Catholic.

Yeah, that's a Sweeping Generalization. 

Isn't it?  I didn't say it, Crowley did. 

 

Posted by: @ignant666

I think Leary was referring to attitudes around alcohol Prohibition, which was a very Protestant, and openly anti-Catholic, movement.

Anti Catholic-Irish? Joe Kennedy tried to compete (or get accepted by)  Old Money WASP Americans by making a fortune running drinks from the Old Country.   

What makes me laugh was the Kennedy family's portrayal of themselves as being 'good Catholics' haha that's funny.  

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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djedi
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07/07/2020 8:41 pm  
Posted by: @dom

I didn't say it, Crowley did. 

Do you know why coyotes won't eat dead mexicans, dom?

Posted by: @shiva

I now have no further interest in Islam, except every now and again I stop to count my bullets.

Praise Allah and pass the ammunition.

Posted by: @shiva

Somewhen (1936? '39?, I don't remember), the Mexican population rose up against the Church, killing Priests all over the place. To this day, it is illegal for a Priest to be seen in religious garb outside his Church.

I used to know a mormon schoolteacher who went to Mexico on his mission. He told me his shoes got stolen every week.


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ignant666
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07/07/2020 9:13 pm  

Or turkey-buzzards, i hear.

There was a dead deer in the road near the house where i spent the weekend, and many turkey-buzzards circling. Unfortunately it takes them nearly as long to eat a deer as it takes the Highway Department to show up on a holiday weekend; mostly the wind was right- but, when it wasn't, stank a bit.


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dom
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07/07/2020 10:50 pm  
Posted by: @djedi
Posted by: @dom

I didn't say it, Crowley did. 

Do you know why coyotes won't eat dead mexicans, dom?

This sounds like a racist joke, I'm not sure I want to hear the answer. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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07/07/2020 11:03 pm  
Posted by: @dom

This sounds like a racist joke

It definitely more or less is, although widely believed at the time, so maybe not intended as such.

You're saying you don't know the answer? Surprising.

See also here.


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djedi
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07/07/2020 11:37 pm  
Posted by: @dom

I want to hear the answer. 

"Crossing a hillside, I saw a Mexican some thirty yards below the track, apparently asleep in the sun. I thought I would warn him of his danger and rode over. He must have been dead three weeks, for he had been completely mummified. Neither the coyotes nor the turkey-buzzards will touch a dead Mexican. His flesh has been too thoroughly impregnated with chillies and other pungent condiments."

-The Confessions of Aleister Crowley, ch. 23

And Mexican isn't a race.


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ignant666
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07/07/2020 11:48 pm  
Posted by: @djedi

Mexican isn't a race.

Yes, it is, because lots of folks are racist against "Mexicans", meaning people of Latin American ancestry. "Race" is a social construct.

image

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dom
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08/07/2020 12:00 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

It definitely more or less is, although widely believed at the time, so maybe not intended as such.

You're saying you don't know the answer? Surprising.

See also here.

I don't get why this American saying (?) was targeted at me...then..by djedi....... unless it's an acknowledgement that AC makes sweeping racial generalizations...as also (unwittingly) documented by the person who made the OP with the 'Catholics' and Latinos do this and Muslims do that.      

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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08/07/2020 12:52 am  

It is, after all, mentioned in a book you have said you have read "hundreds" of times.

I personally have not read the Hag nearly that many times, but immediately knew what @djedi was alluding to, and was able to find it in about a minute, since it is included in the second reference to Mexico in the index.


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fraterihsan
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08/07/2020 2:50 am  

From the Liber Legis commentary:

AL III,52: “I flap my wings in the face of Mohammed & blind him.”

The New Comment

Mohammed's point of view is wrong too; but he needs no such sharp correction as 'Jesus.' It is his face – his outward semblance – that is to be covered with His wings. The tenets of Islam, correctly interpreted, are not far from our Way of Life and Light and Love and Liberty. This applies especially to the secret tenets. The external creed is mere nonsense suited to the intelligence of the peoples among whom it was promulgated; but even so, Islam is Magnificent in practice. Its code is that of a man of courage and honour and self-respect; contrasting admirably with the cringing cowardice of the damnation-dodging Christians with their unmanly and dishonest acceptance of vicarious sacrifice, and their currish conception of themselves as 'born in sin,' 'miserable sinners' with 'no health in us.'

Also note that when he references "Muhammad" and "Jesus" he isn't necessarily referencing the person's themselves but the dogmas and aimlessness that often appears in the exoteric side of these religions. The strong devotional practice is not what is criticized, nor core doctrines either (Crowley was a strong proponent of the Tawhid of Imam Ali, which is very batin/esoteric).

 

From Liber Aleph:

74. DE MAGO ARABICO MOHAMMED.
(On the Arabian Magus Mohammed)
Behold! In these Chapters have I, thy Father, restricted myself, not speaking of any immediate
Echo of a Word in the World, because, there Men being long since withdrawn into their Silence,
it is their One Word, and that Alone, that resoundeth undiminished through Time. How
Mohammed, who followeth, is darkened and confused by His Nearness to our own Time, so that
I say not save with Diffidence that His Word ALLH may mean this or that. But I am bold
concerning His Doctrine of the Unity of God, for God is Man, and he said therefore: Man is One.
And His Will was to unite all Men in One reasonable Faith: to make possible international Cooperation in Science. Yet, because He arose in the Time of the greatest possible Corruption and
Darkness, when every Civilization and Every Religion had fallen into Ruin, by the malice of the
great Sorcerer of Nazareth, as some say, He is still hidden in the Dust of the Simoom, and we
may not perceive Him in His true Self of Glory.
Nevertheless, behold, o My Son, this Mystery. His true Word was LA ALLH, that is to say:
(there is) No God, and LA AL is that Mystery of Mysteries which thine own Eye pierced in thine
Initiation. And of that Truth have the Illusion and Falsehood enslaved the Souls of Men, as is
written in the Book of the Magus.

 

From the Algeria Working (in Kaczynski's bio):

While the divorce unfolded, Crowley and Neuburg headed out of Aumaleinto the heart of Algeria. Crowley wore a robe and turban and read fromthe Qur’an as they marched across the desert. Neuburg’s head wasshaved except for two tufts of hair that he twisted into horns. ThusCrowley led his familiar djinn about on a chain, to the amazement of thelocals.That evening, they reached Sidi Aissa and, at 8 p.m., performed the27th Call. From there, they proceeded to Bou Sâada, where they spentmost of their trip. It was a quaint little town with houses gathered upona hill in the middle of the desert. A stream ran through the land below,framed with palms, cacti, orchards, and gardens.As they regressed through the Thirty Aethyrs over the course of thenext month, Crowley and Neuburg recorded the visions—apocalyptic,passionate, and inspired—which they experienced. AC encounteredangels, streams of fire, dragons, ringing bells, and a landscape of knives.When they evoked the 21st Aethyr on November 29, Crowley faced aninvisible entity that spoke by rapidly placing tastes into Crowley’smouth: salt, honey, sugar, asafoetida, bitumen, honey. As theyprogressed, Crowley understood the images to unify every system ofmagical attainment.

 

From the Book of Lies:


                            THE DINOSAURS

    None are They whose number is Six: else were they
      six indeed.
    Seven are these Six that live not in the City of the
      Pyramids, under the Night of Pan.
    There was Lao-tzu.
    There was Siddartha.
    There was Krishna.
    There was Tahuti.
    There was Mosheh.
    There was Dionysus.
    There was Mahmud.
    But the Seventh men called PERDURABO; for
      enduring unto The End, at The End was Naught
      to endure. 
    Amen.

THE PRAYING MANTIS

“Say: God is One.” This I obeyed: for a thousand and

one times a night for one thousand nights and

one did I affirm the Unity.

But “night” only means LAYLAH; and Unity and

GOD are not worth even her blemishes.

Al-lah is only sixty-six; but LAYLAH counteth up to

Seven and Seventy.

“Yea! the night shall cover all; the night shall cover all.”

A brief commentary on Surah Ikhlas, which is further elucidated in Liber 813 and the ritual of the sixth degree of the OTO, plus referenced in Crowley's "Confessions".

Layla is a classic motif in Arabic and Sufi literature referring to God with it's connections to the phrase "my beloved", Crowley often employs it in this book as a double-entendre for both the Apophatic view of God (which is very coherent with Surah 16:74, Surah 42:11, Surah 6:103, Surah 112:4, etc, and the words of Imam Ali and Imam al-Sadiq), and a symbol for the 'scarlet woman' of the time of writing which was Leila Waddell.

 

From Crowley's Confessions: 

As to my study of Islam, I got a sheikh to teach me Arabic and the practices of ablution, prayer and
so on, so that at some future time I might pass for a Moslem among themselves. I had it in my mind
to repeat Burton's journey to Mecca sooner or later. I learnt a number of chapters of the Koran by
heart. I never went to Mecca, it seemed rather vieux jeu, but my ability to fraternize fully with
Mohammedans has proved of infinite use in many ways.
My sheikh was profoundly versed in the mysticism and magic of Islam, and discovering that I was an
initiate, had no hesitation in providing me with books and manuscripts on the Arabic Cabbala. These
formed the basis of my comparative studies. I was able to fit them in with similar doctrines and
other religions; the correlation is given in my 777.

 

"Where Christian and Moslem missions are in direct rivalry, Islam collects the higher and Christianity the lower sections of the society."

 

On one point only were Fuller and I at odds. His hatred for Christianity extended to the idea of religion
in general. He had, of course, a sympathy in his heart for Islam; the manliness of the Mohammedan
makes it impossible to despise his belief in Allah. Islam is free from the degrading doctrine of
atonement and the glorification of the slave virtues. The Moslem's attitude to Allah only errs in so
far as it involves the childish idea of personifying the powers of the universe. It is right that we
should reverence the majesty of nature and obey her laws; but he fought with me, hand to hand,
week after week, about the question of Magick. He had originally intended his essay to conclude
with the sixth chapter, and he had scrupulously avoided any reference to the magical and mystical
side of my work; nay, even to the philosophical side so far as that was concerned with
transcendentalism.

 

Christianity can never make any impression on a
Mohammedan. The anthropomorphic and antropotheistic ideas connected with the Incarnation shock
people whose conception of God, irrational though it be, is at least sublime. "God hath neither
equal, son, nor companion. Nothing shall stand before His face." The ethical implications of the
Atonement are equally repulsive to the Moslem. As Ibsen said, "Your God is an old man whom you
cheat." Mohammedanism teaches a man to respect himself; his relation with his supposed creator is direct; he cannot escape the penalty of his sins by paying the priest, or by persuading himself that everything has been arranged for him by a transaction of the most stupid injustice. Buddhism, in a totally different way, shares this conformity with common decency, and it is only the lowest caste of Hindu which really convinces itself that sacrifices and servility suffice for salvation. Where Islam and Christianity meet in open competition, as in some parts of Africa, it is found that only the lowest type of Negro, such as is accustomed to arrange matters with conscience by hanging a rag on a piece of stick, accepts Christianity. Anyone with a trace of self-respect disdains the lavish superstitions which we compel the Archbishop of Canterbury to subscribe, but can readily accept the simplicity of Islam as a stage beyond fetishism.

 

The religion of the Mohammedan, unlike that of the Christian, is positive. It is not based on
fear, but on the actual sense of the relations of man and God. I laugh to think of the well-fed, idle
and ignorant missionary at Shigar trying to convert men of this stamp. Their simplicity sees through
Christian sophistication at a glance; and, their sense of ethics being outraged as well as their sense
of reverence, it is easy to understand that the only converts from Mohammedanism are absolutely
conscienceless scoundrels who wish to live on the scarcely camouflaged subsidies of missions.

 

I was not for a moment deceived by my own pretext that I wanted to study Mohammedism, and in particular the mysticism of the fakir, the Darwesh and the Sufi, from within, when I proposed to pass myself off in Egypt for a Persian prince with a beautiful English wife. I wanted to swagger about in a turban with a diamond aigrette and sweeping silken robes or a coat of cloth of gold, with a jewelled talwar by my side ant two gorgeous runners to clear the way for my carriage through the streets of Cairo.

 

Top return the the general question of religion. The fundamental problem has never been explicitly
stated. We know that all religions, without exception, have broken down at the first test. The claim
of religion is to complete, and (incidentally) to reverse, the conclusions of reason by means of a direct communication from some intelligence superior in kind to that o any incarnate human being. I ask Mohammed, "How am I to know that the Koran is not your own compilation?"
It is impertinent to answer that the Koran is so sublime, so musical, so true, so full of prophecies
which time has fulfilled and confirmed by so many miraculous events that Mohammed could not
have written it himself.

 

Once more, I made a translation of the Fatihah, the most sacred chapter of the Koran, I replaced
the name of God by that of Mary, and once again found favour with the Vatican.

 

I thought it polite to impress them with my majesty as a Magician. With this object I took Burton's
hint that a star sapphire was universally venerated by Moslems, and having bought a very large and
fine specimen of this stone in Ceylon and made it into a ring with a gold band of two interlaced
serpents, I found that Burton was right. I had merely to exhibit this ring to command the greatest
possible respect. On one occasion, in fact, a quarrel in a coffee shop having developed into a sort of small riot, and knives being drawn, I walked into the scrimmage and drew sigils in the air with the ring while intoning a chapter of the Koran. The fuss stopped instantly, and a few minutes later the original parties to the dispute came to me and begged me to decide between them, for they saw that I was a saint. I habitually observed the prescribed five prayers of the orthodox Mohammedan, and increased my
reputation for piety by constantly reciting the Koran as I walked and performing various other
practices proper to the highest class of dervish.

 

It's also worth noting that Liber 813 and the sixth degree of the OTO both feature Surah Ikhlas (Surah 112) of the Qur'an, which is the most profound expression of Monism there is (far more than even Tat Tvam Asi). 

Liber De Nuptiis Secretis Deorum cum Hominibus recommends various Islamic sex books in relation to Sex Magick, alongside general Tantric stuff.

 

Overall I love that Crowley was passionate about the esoteric (Batin) heart of Islam, though he was limited in his resources, so he never got to explore quite how extensively deep the Islamic tradition goes - namely in Shi'ism and in Sufism. Shi'ism itself is inherrently and categorically Gnostic, and the very concept of Imamate is an initiatory tradition, there is also the aspect of the Divine Feminine through the Daughter of Prophet Muhammad, Fatimah az-Zahra. The Ahlulbayt (family of the Prophet) taught hard Monism with quite an emanationist model of reality. One book I highly recommend reading is "The Spirituality of Shi'i Islam" by Mohammed Amir Moezzi, which extensively explores Shi'ism's roots. As for Ismailism (which the famed "Assassins" were the branch that became known as Nizaris), this article is great: https://ismailignosis.com/2015/12/28/esoteric-interpretations-of-the-quran-the-foundations-of-shia-ismaili-tawil/

It's a shame though that Crowley was only exposed to Sunnism (via Sufism) though because he was knocking on a very big door without seeing the totality in front of him. Same thing could be often said for Gnosticism in general, with the Nag Hammadi texts only discovered in the mid 40s and put out in the public after Crowley's, Blavatsky's and Manly P Hall's death, etc.


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Shiva
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08/07/2020 3:41 am  
Posted by: @dom

I didn't say it, Crowley did. 

I assumed AC said the first part (Latinos Superiorus) and you the second (Latinos Catolicos), and I addressed each separately. I was neither pointing a finger at the Moon or at you personally. Both were sweeping generalizations; I found yours to be correct.

Posted by: @ignant666

"Race" is a social construct.

No it isn't. It was built by the Census Department of The Establishment. I have to check my Race (they might call it "ethnicity") every ten years. Then, after I decide where I fit in all the New Categories, I have to check a Box. See, now we do the [self-verified] work for them, and they waste the money somewhere else. Next time I'm considering American Samoan Islander.

Why aren't the Three Mexican Countries named? (Maybe one has to hear, and then turn on the nudes news.

Posted by: @dom

I don't get why this American saying (?) was targeted at me

There's this thing that happens: If you even comment on something (anything at all), regardless of what you say or feel in your heart, then you take on the karma of the OP as well as your own brilliance and mistakes. Then other people look at you ... because you made the last noise. Get it? It's a Universal Principle.

Posted by: @fraterihsan

From the Liber Legis commentary:

We have been encouraging Frater Bred to knock off the endless quoting and to provide a summary in his own words, citing what he thinks - based on his own experience(s).

Alas, your multiple, all-encompassing references are so complete that they overwhelm me. So I skipped to the chase ...

Posted by: @fraterihsan

It's a shame though that Crowley was only exposed to Sunnism (via Sufism) ...

Why is it a shame? An initiate is not required to know everything about everything.

 


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fraterihsan
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08/07/2020 4:01 am  
Posted by: @shiva

 

Why is it a shame? An initiate is not required to know everything about everything.

 

It's obviously a shame because Crowley was an occultist (like I needed to say that 🤣 ) and not an exoteric churchgoer. Sunnism itself is just the exoteric, mainstream layman's religion focused only on the outward dogmas and practices (the practices are still fantastic though, as Crowley even appreciated them). For Crowley in his time and limited resources (as said already), he didn't get a chance to dive into the really deep end of Shi'ism (which connects profoundly with many things he loved within Theosophy, Rosicrucianism and the Golden Dawn - while long predating all three). Still though much of what he said was quite accurate, despite having a few small inaccuracies. The closest to anything really 'out there' in the Islamic world was his minimal (like with Blavatsky, Gurdjieff etc) exposure to the post-Sufi tradition and ethnic community of the Yazidis (who carry over various aspects of Ismailism and Sufism in a new context). 


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djedi
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08/07/2020 4:39 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

"Race" is a social construct.

Precisely what I mean when I say, there is no mexican race.

Posted by: @shiva

I now have no further interest in Islam, except every now and again I stop to count my bullets.

society of islamic rednecks

I've thought this over, and will now say that, if a scimitar death squad should come-a-calling, I'd sooner tell them that I was a Muslim, myself, rather than make a fuss. I've passed for a middle easterner before, and I know enough about mainstream Islam in addition to sufism to talk my way out, I think. Then I'd arrange a few marriages for myself, wife up some Hashemite hotties, some Bedouin baddies, some Sassanid sweethearts. You know. Have a bunch of screaming brats I could ignore all their lives.

Maybe I'd better think this over more clearly. I have no idea which one of those 99 names of god I'd pick out for myself.

When I was a teenager, my father secured a job for me working for an old Turkish fellow, who I think was involved a coup or something over there -- he never spoke about it. Anyway, he loved to talk with me about the Ottomans. A very intelligent man.

Posted by: @shiva

An initiate is not required to know everything about everything.

But he is expected to know nothing.


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fraterihsan
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08/07/2020 5:13 am  
Posted by: @djedi
e.

But he is expected to know nothing.

Forgetting is the key to all knowledge 😉 


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Shiva
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08/07/2020 9:19 am  
Posted by: @djedi

I've passed for a middle easterner before

I don't think I could get away with that. This is all make-believe anyway. Considering my age and my remote location, I actually expect  BLM (Bureau of Land Management), Islamic Jihad, The Russians, ISIS, The Taliban, The Yemeni Rebels, etc. to come calling. But I hear our gov is stirring the Chinese pot.

Posted by: @djedi

But he is expected to know nothing.

And so we return to the core core of the core of all teachings, everywhere, in all languages. Do you want to know which concept to bhakti? How about which equation produces antimatter? What color robe for your third wife?

The following is a magical technique, applied from The Lighted Way involving the trine method ...

1. Take any question and test drive any three potential solutions, resolutions, systems, religions, chemicals, bulldozers, electro-brain stim ... whatever. Just get three possible (realistic) avenues of solving the problem.

2. Whichever system or solution gets closest to zero should be chosen.

Zero = less effort, expense, or headaches, preferably wu-wei resulting in zero friction. On all levels. This is liberation. Now that you (anyone) has attained, will you devote your life to the benefit of others, or will you (anyone) see how well wu-wei works at the gaming tables, or in merchandising?

Posted by: @fraterihsan

Forgetting is the key to all knowledge

Very good. It's nice to see folks here in the midst of QBL transactions in multiple dimensions, discussions about Islam, The Mysterious DMT of 444, periodic carnivals, circuses and sideshows, Claim-jumpers and Jump-Claimers, and Starseed Leary, the One Time High Priest of LSD and The Aquarian Age preview, to see selected writers display partial or whole knowlege of what this temple is really about.

It is about getting the robot brain to take a break. The mind cannot be stopped by simple mental willpower. There are a few tricks to get around this. If you need them, tell me and we will arrange duty-free transport. None of the QBL, the Magic Power, the Unique Philosophy, the Psychological Victory (breaking from cultural programming control), the Astral Projection, the Circle in which the asana rests, none of these matter on whit (wit) as long as one has control over them.

There's this angel not-self who helps sort it all out into a grand pyramid ...

image

Then there's only one thing left. It's called "surrender." If you don't surrender, all your toys and parts will be removed.

That's you (any dork) up there at the apex, surrending unto the light.

It turns dark after that, but just float with the tide and turn on you "inner authority" mechanism. It will guide you if you get befuddled ("become like Elmer Fudd").

Yeah, you have to die. Don't worry, be happy! You and your mind must be set aside, but there's a greater (universal) mind still in operation. It doesn't work like human robot brains. You simply see [gnosis - grok] what is happening, without ment figuring (that comes later).

The "Nothing," bandied about by some indicates, is an indication that they have probably lost their minds, temporarily at least, maybe with some legal libation, under a doctor's supervision) that opened these door of different perception.

All is aright when the nothing, zero, core is orchestrating.

Stop

 

 

 


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wellreadwellbred
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08/07/2020 2:28 pm  

fraterishan (@fraterihsan) Magus:

"It's a shame though that Crowley was only exposed to Sunnism (via Sufism) though because he was knocking on a very big door without seeing the totality in front of him. Same thing could be often said for Gnosticism in general, with the Nag Hammadi texts only discovered in the mid 40s and put out in the public after Crowley's, Blavatsky's and Manly P Hall's death, etc."

With respect to the teachings of the said etc. ( = Crowley's, Blavatsky's and Manly P Hall etc.), which one has the closest similarity to the Nag Hammadi texts??


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wellreadwellbred
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08/07/2020 2:35 pm  

Ignant666: 

"I have had a deep and visceral hatred and fear of Xianity from earliest childhood. There is an immense amount of Xian rhetoric/theology and Jesus talk included in Thelema and AC's work, which always weirded me out. [...] Suddenly that stuff from AC about Catholicism being a form of paganism made sense to me."

The immense amount of Xian rhetoric/theology and Jesus talk included in Thelema and AC's work, which always weirded you out, does is make sense to you now? 


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ignant666
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08/07/2020 2:53 pm  

Yes, it clicked into place at that moment.

Evangelicals still creep me out though, and all AC's talk of "true Xianity" does not resonate with me in the least, but i understand what he means in a way i did not before that moment.

Since i never believed that church/Bible stuff for a second, i have no psychological need to claim my beliefs/insights/experiences represent the "true" version of Xianity. The scars of AC's Plymouth Brethren upbringing never left him.


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christibrany
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08/07/2020 3:32 pm  

We place no reliance on virgin or pigeon

Our method is science our aim is religion

 

Pass the plate

 

I think AC's like for Islam would not have been present if he had seen the extremism which took hold after WWII.   Of course like all extremism this is only in a minority of the adherents, but I think he liked the core mysticism of the religion, not the rote Orthodoxy, if that makes sense.   And in these Last Days it seems that rote Orthodoxy and not the Spirit is more prevalent. 


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dom
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08/07/2020 3:41 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

It is, after all, mentioned in a book you have said you have read "hundreds" of times.

I personally have not read the Hag nearly that many times, but immediately knew what @djedi was alluding to, and was able to find it in about a minute, since it is included in the second reference to Mexico in the index.

Yeah was wondering why djedi even referred to it via an '@dom"..... AC said coyotes won't eat Mexicans? So what?

I don't have a copy of the Confessions any more, I use the online version.

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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dom
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08/07/2020 6:54 pm  
Posted by: @falcon

"

Islamic Roots of Thelema (first in a series)

Aleister Crowley's admiration for Islam is no particular secret. In Magick Without Tears,

 

Ok , Crowley was  a Mohammed fanboy ....really?  This has got nothing to do with traditional Islam societies or customs which are the antithesis of Thelema.  Good luck with your 'strange drugs', 'drunkenness' and  'loud and adulterous' women in your Islamic wonderland.  

 

 
Posted by: @falcon

 

Crowley claimed that his sheikh also taught him "many of the secrets of the Sidi Aissawa," a Sufitariqa or initiatory system. Many of Crowley's examples of the yogic technique of mantra are in Arabic, and his description of them sometimes relates more strongly to the Sufi practice of dhikr. And his A.'.A.'. program recommends to aspirants the study of "Sufi poetry generally."

so your point about AC encouraging Sufi poetry-readings is a moot one if you're using it to conflate those selective points about Thelema and Islam being stablemates.  Maybe check out AL 3:49 to 3:52    

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Alan_OBrien
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08/07/2020 7:25 pm  

There was a friend of John Yarker that converted to Islam. I suspect that part of the reason for his conversion was his name: William Quilliam. 😀 😎 😍 ☹ 

Like Yarker, he might be mentioned in The Equinox. Crowley must have known him because Quilliam was 97th degree in the Rite of Memphis-Misraim. He was the Patriarch Grand Administrator, the big cheese, the head honcho.

Quilliam converted to Islam in 1887 and became Abdullah Quilliam. He opened Britain's first mosque.

He was teetotal, which would probably have put something of a crimp on any long-term social contact with The Great Beast.

Another convert was René Guénon, born at roughly the time that Quilliam converted. He is known in France - not well-known, just known. They hold philosophers in higher esteem over there. Even Pablo Picasso never got called an asshole.

(I have noticed that Guénon's dates of birth/death are similar to Crowley's: 15 November 1886 – 7 January 1951.)

After conversion, Guénon became Abd al-Wāḥid Yaḥyá, which is a bit of a mouthful. I'd have preferred Abdullah Guénon.

[I am never surprised when men convert to Islam, especially red-headed men (as they always are). There are huge advantages for men in Islam. But I am always amazed when women convert. What do they get out of it?]

During Crowley's lifetime Guénon had 17 books published in English, all mystical, and AC must surely have read one or two.

Anyway, for Crowley conversion to Islam wasn't an option: you can't create your own religion and then convert out of it.


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Behemoth
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08/07/2020 7:37 pm  
Posted by: @alan_obrien

During Crowley's lifetime Guénon had 17 books published in English, all mystical, and AC must surely have read one or two.

 

I am not sure did Crowley ever read any works by Guénon, but there is a short account in Aleister Crowley: The Beast in Berlin: Art, Sex, and Magick in the Weimar:

 

Crowley was hot stuff, perhaps too hot, he was dangerouns and he had the Theosophical Society in his sights, but Birven could not get over the startling contrast between everything he was being told about Crowley and the extraordinary and original mind he could not help but encounter in Crowley's writings. It was as though Birven was constantly seeking peremission to appreciate Crowley, even from Crowley himself. On 21 October 1929, Birven wrote to Crowley about Guénon's article:

 

Guénon says, in a polemic with the Revue Int[ernationale] des Socieétés Secrétes (Voild d'Isis, October 1929), that if you were to present yourself at the least apprentice lodge, you would be turned away at the door with all the honours due to your rank. (!) This is idiotic, but it also proves that people do not know you

 

Crowley's reply shows the relaxed contempt in which he held RISS propaganda:

 

Thank you for your letter of the 21st which reached me this evening the country [Kent]. Monsieur la Guenon's monkeying around amuses me. What a wheeze!

 

Note that Crowley cut the acute accent from "Guénon". In French une guenon is a female ape!

 

Basically, Guénon did not "recognize" Crowley's claims to certain Masonic titles/honors, to which Crowley "in a relaxed contempt" had a little play with "monsier la Guenon's" name while replying to Birven's letter. The guenons also being a species of certain Old World monkeys. (without the acute accent).

Behold now Behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.


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ignant666
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08/07/2020 8:04 pm  

Guenon (can't be bothered with typing accents; no disrespect to any simian is intended) was himself a member of several "clandestine" Masonic lodges, though he may have regularized his status by the time he was dissing AC for doing what he'd done for years.

He was a big favorite with Savitri Devi, Hindu Nazi lunatic and inventor of "Esoteric Hitlerism", and is, with other "Traditionalists", often cited by your occult/Satanist Nazi types.

Does AC ever display any awareness of the huge differences between Shia and Sunni Islam? i can't recall him showing any sign of knowing about this. Sufis, such as the convert Guenon, are i think all Shiites.


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Shiva
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08/07/2020 9:04 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

Pass the plate

I put this Note in the Plate ...

"I find the abbreviation Xian amusing. There is this place in China called Xian (Shee-ahn), where the City of the Pyramids actually exists. If you're interested in this archaeology stuff, and you've not heard of the great City in Xian, I recommend a perusal just to widen the scope of the vision seen in the rear-view mirror.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_pyramids

pyramids trapezoidal burial mounds
Posted by: @christibrany

the extremism which took hold after WWII.

Right. 1947. The Allies decided to give Palestine/Israel back to the Jews ... thus effectively initiating another Crusade. The jihad, naturally, started immediately and hasn't stopped since then.

There's some causal connection between the Jews re-occupying their nation-state-land and that being a trigger, or a foreshadowing, of

Posted by: @dom

AC said coyotes won't eat Mexicans? So what?

My primary instructor in Oriental Med School said he could not understand how Mexicans could eat all that Chile and not burn up internally. Chile, a very strong Fire element, in the diet will promote gastric, heart, and other heat problems in most people. Since he didn't understand it, he could not explain it. But I have discovered the truth: It is an acquired taste. Just like taking small amounts of arsenic, one becomes immune to arsenic poisining. It's called "body tolerance." Frater Mont, a White Russian with Georgian (Russia) heritage, who was red-faced, and who was raised in mexico, ate Chjiles like popcorn, and he never burned up from Peppers.

This Chile-Buzzard thing is physiological. It is only attributed to Mexicans because that culture is Chile-excessive. Also, Szechuan (China) cooking is just as hot, and the Szechuanese do not burn up. I cannot stand or tolerate hot (pepper hot) spices in my diet, or ginseng (strong yang-fire tonic) either. I am at the opposite end of the corpse versus carnivorous birds, and I suppose that means I'll get along with Maat at that pylon.

Posted by: @dom

I don't have a copy of the Confessions any more, I use the online version.

Congratulations on your shift to digital Borgdom. I sold all my hard copies back in 2006. I do not rely on "online" versions, though. You see, if the Sun goes out, or the Chinese explode an EMP in the satellite belt, or the Polar switch knocks out The Grid, then it's best to have digital copies of everything on one's own drives. I cry in the dry Wildrness, saying ...

"Repent. Do not RELY on the Borg. Any pertinent data, such as Libers, must be stored on local disks, with a solar/ battery power source ... in case the external Borg fails, or gets erased by a satellite band nuke."

 

 


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christibrany
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08/07/2020 9:27 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

But I have discovered the truth: It is an acquired taste. Just like taking small amounts of arsenic, one becomes immune to arsenic poisining. It's called "body tolerance."

Right on. True facts. as the kids say.

I started my chili pepper addiction thanks to the Korean friends/girlfriends in college, which then blossomed to a spice habit (not from Dune) in that country while working there.  Now I can't keep away.  I put 2 thai chilis in my  'spicy seafood ramen' the other night. Super delicious. I like all the sweating and sniffling during summer because it cools me down.  My body has all the tolerance in the mouth throat heart and gut regions but apparently one still has to be careful in the nether regions. ha.  

In Korea once I had these chicken feet which were delicious but I was the only white guy in the restaurant and all the oldies were staring at me, since it si famous for being super spicy, so covered in red chili paste/powder that you have to wear gloves to eat it 😛

 

I wonder if Arabic/Muslim countries have spicy food too?

I know Catholic European countries don't generally but Catholic Mexico and South America do....

The taco truck near my work has an amazing yellow spicy salsa they make from scratch mmmm

Posted by: @shiva

it's best to have digital copies of everything on one's own drives.

I have my hard copy library AND my DVDs of ebooks.  AND on my hard drive. 

Triple redundancy I guess. 

What I lack is the private spice to power my computer should the grid run out of peppers. 


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ignant666
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08/07/2020 9:47 pm  
Posted by: @christibrany

I wonder if Arabic/Muslim countries have spicy food too?

Oh god yes. Find some harissa, it is a North African very hot paste, delish. And of course Pakistan and India are full of very hot foods; in Iran and Afghanistan the food is more sweet and less hot as i recall.

I blame my hot foods addiction on my father, who would judge curries by how quickly they made him break a sweat on his forehead.


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christibrany
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08/07/2020 9:53 pm  

@ignant666

 

When I was in college before the Koreans had tempered me up I was visiting my gf in the UK at the time she was studying abroad/abroad (She was from Korea studying abroad at my US Uni, then studied abroad from the abroad in Lancaster UK lol). We went to the curry takeout place across the street from her campus, and I mistakenly asked the Indian guy behind the counter, 'give me the hottest lamb curry you can make.'  Unfortunately it was way too hot and after only 2 or 3 bites of the bright red stuff it came out ..everywhere.  lightweight! haha 


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Shiva
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09/07/2020 7:36 am  
Posted by: @alan_obrien

What do they get out of it?

Good question. Women are afforded the status of cattle, which is better than, say, a scorpion.

 


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Alan_OBrien
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09/07/2020 8:03 am  
Posted by: @shiva

So these dwellers were mostly White (W). They came from North Germany and the Denmark/Sweden suburbs (A-S). And they didn't like the Universal Roman Church, so they protested (P). Thus we have the racial-theological term (WASP), which different people have opinions about.

All Anglo-Saxons are white.

I believe the W stands for Wealthy, to differentiate posh anglo-saxon protestants from the rednecky types.


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fraterihsan
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09/07/2020 12:38 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

Does AC ever display any awareness of the huge differences between Shia and Sunni Islam? i can't recall him showing any sign of knowing about this. Sufis, such as the convert Guenon, are i think all Shiites.

No Crowley doesn't seem to be aware of it in anything I've read (unless there is some obscure diary note where he mentions it or something). He was initiated by a Sufi Shaykh in Cairo though, as commonly known. 

I tell you, if Crowley ever knew about Shi'ism, he would have sunk his fuckin teeth into it because of how much it would have added to his comparative metaphysics, mysticism, philosophy etc. Through his brief engagements with Sufism though he got some little glimmers of light into the depth of the Qur'an (which really opens up - in a manner not too dissimilar to Liber Legis - within Shi'ite esotericism, aka Batiniyya, Irfan, Marifa etc). Plus he would have gotten a kick out of the speculative relations between the early Nizaris ("Assassins") and the Templars. Damn, it would've been amazing to have Hasan Sabbah in the OTO degrees instead of Saladin! But also with all the secret chief, HGA, Rosicrucian and similar elements, he would likely have been very impressed to the mystery teaching at the heart of the concept of the Qa'im.

As for Guenon, no he was definitely a Sunni. The Traditionalists (sophia perennis) all had Sunni bias and never payed much attention to Shi'ism other than very rare references in some of their books. Guenon doesn't ever mention Shi'ism even once in one of his books as far as I know. Guenon as a Sunni Sufi, initiated into the Shadhilli Tariqa. 


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ignant666
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09/07/2020 12:52 pm  

Yes, i was entirely mistaken- almost all Sufis are Sunni, and not Shiites.

My larger point was that AC's engagement with Islam was paper-thin if he was not aware of this split. It would be more plausible to claim to be a student of Xianity and have never heard of the difference between Protestants and Catholics.

It is especially odd since he was so into Persian poetry that he had no idea that Persians and Egyptians have drastically different versions of Islam.


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Jamie J Barter
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09/07/2020 2:00 pm  

@fraterihsan

Given all of the apparent plus points expressed vis-a-vis (Esoteric) Islam, why then do you think the author of Liber Legis held the reservations against it as a 'crapulous creed' which were set down in III:52 ?

Norma N Joy Conquest


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Jamie J Barter
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09/07/2020 2:16 pm  

Apologies for duplicated post.

N Joy


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Shiva
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09/07/2020 7:28 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Apologies for duplicated post.

No problem. It happens every now and then and again. Regarding your post just previous to this one (cited above), we must take the position of a new pharaoh. There are all those statues, pictures and hieroglyphic graffiti all over the land of Khem, and they pertain to prior pharaohs, who were full of shinola, and now they're dead.

, So: "Mobilize the Army. Erase those Aphorisms and pull down those statues - burn 'em ... even if they're made of stone. Chisel out the names of the previous devils, for I have arisen."

Then: "Insert my name and likeness everywhere a prominent billboard presents itself."

Also: "Burn those damn books. Turn the hawk loose upon Mo and Mary; blast the Buddha and don't forget to torture the Mongol and that Din."

Essentially, and without all the time, labor, and bloody torture, the message is:

"Forget all that Old Stuff and Pay Attention to Now"

In the case of a pharaoh or a prophet,
substitute ME for "Now"

.


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christibrany
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09/07/2020 10:55 pm  

But the purty art. 


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wellreadwellbred
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10/07/2020 12:01 am  

fraterishan (@fraterihsan) Magus:

"... Islam is [...] contrasting admirably with the cringing cowardice of the damnation-dodging Christians with their unmanly and dishonest acceptance of vicarious sacrifice [...]. [...] ... it is only the lowest caste of Hindu which really convinces itself that sacrifices [...] suffice for salvation." 

What about AC's Thelema, and his The Book of the Law at the core of it, which appears to mention child sacrifice and child slaying: 

BOTL Chapter 3: "12. Sacrifice cattle, little and big: after a child. 13. But not now. 14. Ye shall see that hour, o blessed Beast, and thou the Scarlet Concubine of his desire! 15. Ye shall be sad thereof. [...] 43. Let the Scarlet Woman beware! If pity and compassion and tenderness visit her heart; if she leave my work to toy with old sweetnesses; then shall my vengeance be known. I will slay me her child [...]."

Within AC's The Book of the Law (Chapter 2, verse 49 & 52) are mentioned both that "Abrogate are all rituals, all ordeals, all words and signs.", due to one RHK, and that the direful judgments of this RHK is to be expected if "the ritual be not ever unto" one Nuit. Within this book (Chapter 3, verse 3 and 46) this RHK is also mentioned with the following self definitions:

"3. Now let it be first understood that I am a god of War and of Vengeance. I shall deal hardly with them.", and "46. I am the warrior Lord of the Forties: the Eighties cower before me, & are abased. I will bring you to victory & joy: I will be at your arms in battle & ye shall delight to slay. Success is your proof; courage is your armour; go on, go on, in my strength; & ye shall turn not back for any!" 

This RHK's just mentioned selfdefinitions (as "... the Warrior Lord of the Forties: ...", and as "... I will be at your arms in battle & ye shall delight to slay. ..." et cetera), and this RHK's just mentioned manifest vengeance and child slaying ( = "... then shall my vengeance be known. I will slay me her child [...]."), and this RHK's just mentioned direful judgments, are they to be understood in only symbolic ways, and not in literal ways?

A purely symbolic understanding can be a comfortable option for a reader of AC's The Book of the Law, with respect to any aspect[-s] of the RHK mentioned within it, outside of this reader's comfort zone.


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Shiva
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10/07/2020 1:23 am  

Thank you for a series of quotes. The child to be sacrificed in the magician him- or her-self.

The black magic deep state sorcerer brothers and sisters of The Left Hand Path of The Black Lodge (yeah, them) would interpret these lines ipso facto prima facie and starting killing children.

The white magic natural state magician brothers and sisters of The Right Hand Path of The White Lodge (yeah, us) would read Book 4 - (Part III) - and interpret these lines as an injunction to slay one's self as described also in The Book of Lies, which must be thoroughly understood before any adept or twit gets to understand anything in Aleister Crowley's, The Book of the Law, which is the basis of his Religion called Thelema that he made up and lied about all kinds of things. (See: The RTC Exposures).

 


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djedi
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10/07/2020 3:13 am  

I've spent twenty minutes trying to find the english translation of my favorite Sufi parable, but I've gotten bored of looking so I'll just tell it from memory.

A Sufi mystic was relaxing one sweltering afternoon under a shady tree.

"How lucky I am to have the shade this tree offers, but I do feel a little peckish, and dehydrated for that matter," he said, and then, as if by providence, his eyes wandered to see a melon patch just a few yards away.

"Well, I'll be!" the mystic lazily meandered over and picked himself out the plumpest melon, then carried his prize back under the tree and ate it with ease. Soon, he was finished.

"Goddamn! What a bland, tasteless melon that was! I suppose it did sate my hunger and slake my thirst, but would it have killed Allah to make it just a little flavorful?" said the Sufi, hurling the husk away and trying to forget the experience. "Huh?! Would it have killed you?!" he said to Allah, before relaxing once more.

Just then, an emaciated old beggar came crawling over, obviously starving and in dire need of refreshment.

"There's only room for me under this tree, dipshit," said the mystic.

The beggar groaned and continued over to the melon patch, where he summoned all his strength and cracked one open. He slurped up the insides like it was the most delicious delectable known to muslim-kind.

"Thank you, Allah!" The beggar said. "Even in my darkest hour, you provide your unworthy servant sustenance! Thank you, Allah, for this delicious melon!" 

The Sufi observed this, then thought very hard about the exchange between the beggar and God. After a while, the Sufi stood up and walked over to the old man, then proceeded to beat the living daylights out of him.

"You idiot!" The Sufi shouted, kicking in the beggar's rib-cage. "If you go on praising him like that, he'll keep making those godawful melons!"


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Jamie J Barter
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10/07/2020 4:09 am  

Doesn't seem like this particular Sufi mystic was very "advanced", and that in this beggar perchance may have been a King concealed...

Funny joke, though!

N Joy


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Behemoth
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10/07/2020 5:48 am  
Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

What about AC's Thelema, and his The Book of the Law at the core of it, which appears to mention child sacrifice and child slaying: 

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Doesn't seem like this particular Sufi mystic was very "advanced", and that in this beggar perchance may have been a King concealed...

Funny joke, though!

N Joy

 

There is in Sufism/Islamic mythology a figure who fits both these bills (child killing) and being a King concealed.

This figure being, of course, the Al-Khiḍr: The Green Man of Sufism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khidr

 

There is a story of encounter between Moses and Al-Khidr, where Khidr goes to sink a ship, killing a young child etc. and doing seemingly unjust actions:

Moses said to him (Khidr) "May I follow you so that you teach me something of that knowledge (guidance and true path) which you have been taught (by Allah)?"

He (Khidr) said: "Verily! You will not be able to have patience with me! And how can you have patience about a thing which you know not?"

Moses said: "If Allah will, you will find me patient, and I will not disobey you in aught."

He (Khidr) said: "Then, if you follow me, ask me not about anything till I myself mention it to you.

So they both proceeded, till, when they were in the ship, he (Khidr) scuttled it. Moses said: "Have you scuttled it in order to drown its people? Verily, you have done Imra - a Munkar (evil, bad, dreadful) thing."

He (Khidr) said: "Did I not tell you, that you would not be able to have patience with me?"

(Moses) said: "Call me not to account for what I forgot, and be not hard upon me for my affair (with you)."

Then they both proceeded, till they met a boy, he (Khidr) killed him. Moses said: "Have you killed an innocent person who had killed none? Verily, you have done Nukra a great Munkar (prohibited, evil, dreadful) thing!"

(Khidr) said: "Did I not tell you that you can have no patience with me?"

(Moses) said: "If I ask you anything after this, keep me not in your company, you have received an excuse from me."

Then they both proceeded, till, when they came to the people of a town, they asked them for food, but they refused to entertain them. Then they found therein a wall about to collapse and he (Khidr) set it up straight. (Moses) said: "If you had wished, surely you could have taken wages for it!"

(Khidr) said: "This is the parting between me and you. I will tell you the interpretation of (those) things over which you were unable to hold patience.

'As for the ship, it belonged to poor people working in the sea. So I wished to make a defective damage in it, as there was a king after them who seized every ship by force.

"And as for the boy, his parents were believers, and we feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief. So we intended that their Lord should change him for them for one better in righteousness and near to mercy.

"And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the town; and there was under it a treasure belonging to them; and their father was a righteous man, and your Lord intended that they should attain their age of full strength and take out their treasure as a mercy from your Lord. And I did it not of my own accord. That is the interpretation of those (things) over which you could not hold patience. Surah 18: 60-82

 

"The King Concealed" part being from the point of view of Islamic tasawwuf: what concerns the members of Afrad is different from those under the jurisdiction of normal Sufi masters, because the Afrad have a master who is Al Khidr and the members of the Afrad are considered outside of what one might call a "jurisdication of the Pole (al-Qutb)" (The highest point in Sufi orders)

 

Khidr/Khezr is one of the afrad, the Unique Ones who recieve illumination directly from God without human mediation; they can initiate seekers who belong to no Order or have no human guide; they rescue lost wanderers and desperate lovers in the hour of need. Uways al-Qarani is their historical prototype, Khezr their ahistorical prototype.

 

Al-Khidr being the "Master of the Afrad", who act independent of the Sufi/Islamic Qutb and may not even be known by the Pole (for example, Moses in the above story, was regarded as the 'Pole' (al-Quțb ) of his age/or Pole of Judaism) and this is why the number of the Afrad is indeterminate and uknown.

 

Following comparison is sometimes used: a prince, even if the prince excercises no function, is nonetheless higher in himself than a minister (at least if the minister is not himself a prince). In the spiritual order; the Afrad are analoguous to princes and the Aqtab (Al Aqtab) to ministers. Khidr, in this case, being of course, the King Concealed as the Master of the indeterminate number of Afrad (princes).

Behold now Behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.


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fraterihsan
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10/07/2020 7:11 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

@fraterihsan

Given all of the apparent plus points expressed vis-a-vis (Esoteric) Islam, why then do you think the author of Liber Legis held the reservations against it as a 'crapulous creed' which were set down in III:52 ?

Norma N Joy Conquest

That's commented upon in the very first quote from Crowley's commentary in my post you're referencing. 

The dual nature of these things are very obvious though. Crowley hated the literalist dogmatic fundi version of Jesus, but loved the initatic version of Jesus of the Gnostics (the actual Christians), and various concepts associated with him (like found in John 6). Jesus has tremendous significance in a lot of Thelema, heck read Liber 100. The exoteric aspect which takes up most of religion that entertains (basically) the masses and traumatizes people through it's appeal to the lowest common denominator as the exoteric (also meaning made 'easy to follow' by literalizing everything and ignoring meanings of symbols etc) is what is trampled upon and opposed, the esoteric part however is strongly cherished and seen as a true gateway towards the underlying unity in all esoteric religion, and unified knowledge in general as all religions contain profound indispensable knowledge beneath, stuff laymen wouldn't even dream about. 

 

The last four verses of Liber Porta Lucis best sums this up eloquently: 

To you who yet wander in the Court of the Profane we cannot yet reveal all; but you will easily understand that the religions of the world are but symbols and veils of the Absolute Truth. So also are the philosophies. To the adept, seeing all these things from above, there seems nothing to choose between Buddha and Mohammed, between Atheism and Theism. The many change and pass; the one remains. Even as wood and coal and iron burn up together in one great flame, if only that furnace be of transcendent heat; so in the alembic of this spiritual alchemy, if only the zelator blow sufficiently upon his furnace all the systems of earth are consumed in the One Knowledge. Nevertheless, as a fire cannot be started with iron alone, in the beginning one system may be suited for one seeker, another for another. We therefore who are without the chains of ignorance, look closely into the heart of the seeker and lead him by the path which is best suited to his nature unto the ultimate end of all things, the supreme realization, the Life which abideth in Light, yea, the Life which abideth in Light.

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dom
 dom
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10/07/2020 3:51 pm  
 

Apparently Islam is "virile" and it "stares facts in the face". 

 

Does anyone understand this statement?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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10/07/2020 4:08 pm  

It means "In Islamic countries, men having sex with men is much more accepted than in England."

"Virile", geddit?


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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10/07/2020 5:38 pm  

Of course, the opposite is now true.


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